Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in Arizona
Paulie Brading
About to begin her third term, Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a self-described Blue Dog Democrat, was shot in the head during a small public gathering of citizens. She and other elected officials of both parties have avoided large town hall meetings in Arizona because of outrageous behavior by members of the audience they have faced.
The shooting will be top of the fold news, first up on TV news and has already begun to explode across the web.
The news brought to mind a conversation I had just yesterday. I was talking to some friends in Arizona who winter there. They called me to tell me they have been stopped four times by border patrol officers in the past three weeks. Each time they have been asked where they have been and where they are going, all the while a drug-sniffing dog is circling their car. They are not Hispanic.
They also said it is not possible to discuss politics in social settings because of bitter arguments erupting.
A recent update now states Congresswoman Giffords is responding to directions following her surgery.
What has happened to our country?
Your thoughts.
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2:03 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
This appears to be one of those "second amendment remedies" that some Republican candidates have been calling for, including a major senatorial candidate in Nevada. As Congresswoman Giffords herself said in response to Sarah Palin when she put a crosshairs graphic on Gifford's head, "Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action. "
Let's not mince words. This is an act of right wing politically motivated terrorism, and it should be named for what it is. And right wing political leaders bear full responsibility for fueling the hateful rhetoric that spawned this act.
Giffords own 72 year old father puts the blame squarely on the Tea Party. And he's right.
11:14 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Whoa ... you're kind of eating your words now aren't you??? the shooter was a "left-wing pothead" -- http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php
2:23 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
Too much profit to be made from hate.
2:31 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
This is an act of domestic terrorism and anyone, especially including media personalities and those in public office, should be subject to intense public scrutiny and criminal sanction if they are advocating violence in light of this, and other attacks.
3:11 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
Today the GOP and the media are trying to talk about faulty rhetoric on both sides. But when the tea-baggers did their violent rhetoric or when Sharon Angle was shown to be on the record for "second amendment remedies" of anti-govt. violence not a single Republican leader had the guts or integrity to stand up to them and call them out. These wimps are even afraid of their own base.
11:15 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
rhetoric? Who used the word "tea-bagger"? Hello kettle? This is pot ...
Whoa ... you're kind of eating your words now aren't you??? the shooter was a "left-wing pothead" -- http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php
11:56 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
You wish.
1:15 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Wish what?
4:34 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
Could this incident end Sarah Palin in politics? It was she who "targeted" several races with rifle crosshairs. One of those she targeted was Gabrielle "Gabby" Gillfords.
5:35 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
Sure hope so.
At a minimum, it will hopefully put an end to that sort of political rhetoric.
5:52 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
From the Sheriff of Pima County, in charge of the investigation today: "When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the Capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry. "
6:42 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
We know nothing of the kind that Bill and his leftknee is jerking about.
The act is heinous and without any reason. It is domestic terrorism and is condemned. Until or unless it is linked to any movement it shoudlremain what is is - a senseless and condemned act of a zealot.
7:08 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
A zealot encouraged by relentless and irresponsible voices on the right who have promoted their cause using violent rhetoric. When someone takes that rhetoric at face value, then calling it out, as this Sheriff has done, is the only honest and responsible thing to do.
7:10 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
A friend of mine posted the following on Facebook. I think he nails it:
10:26 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
In fact the sheriff of Pima County is the one making the statement that this shooter has left a trail of right wing zealotry and asserted that it is right wing talk radio and hate speech that is contributing to the current climate of violence. In response to your right wing knee jerk.
1:17 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Seems to me the Sheriff has a lot more explaining to do ... like, how much contact did law enforcement have with the shooter prior to the crime.
2:05 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Uh oh ... the Sheriff knew of past death threats made by the shooter ...
2:05 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0824904120110109
7:39 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
Killing a federal judge, not to mention a 9-year old girl and three others, while targeting a member of Congress = DEATH PENALTY.
As for Rep Gibbons, she's a Blue Dog Democrat, and a 2nd Amendment supporter who voted against Pelosi last week and opposed Eric Holder suing Arizona over its immigration law. Hope that didn't make her a target.
In any event, here's hoping Eric Holder's DOJ will vigorously pursue the federal death penalty and the ACLU and similar bleeding heart ilk will stay the hell out the way so this killer can be put to death by the very government he attacked.
7:41 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
Giffords, of course. Not Gibbons...
8:49 p.m.
Jan 8, '11
Based on the alledged shooter's profile: he's a rightwing crazy who is obsessed with anti-abortion activities and US currency.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/1/8/21576/68127/
12:13 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
You're being suckered by a right wing ass, Carla. To suggest that it's even plausible that the shooter could have been liberal is a transparent attempt to try to pretend this isn't associated with what conservatives in this country have been doing over the last thirty years.
Please don't play along. While there has been a never ending spate of brutal violence from conservatives, like McVeigh, anti-choice terrorists, KKK, and the like - all caused by the bigotry, crypto-racism, and pure hate of right wing culture (as evidenced every day by their right wing demagogues on radio and FOX) - liberals have no such record, and are nearly always the victims, like Mathew Sheppard.
I'm not exactly sure what we can do to stop the violence. But at least we can categorically reject conservative attempts to evade the responsibility for their actions. And the first way to do that is to call them out, when their apologists pull this kind of rhetorical stunt.
8:12 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
Well said, Steve. Thanks.
9:52 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
You are right -- we need to stop giving the right-wingers the benefit of the doubt when there IS no doubt.
Over on NW Republican, Ted Piccolo ("Coyote") is saying the assassin's list of favorite books included "Mein Kampf," which Piccolo describes as a "liberal textbook."
These people are so out of touch with reality it's a waste of time trying to reason with them.
1:19 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Hey, you should read Mein Kampf sometime ... the similarities between the progressive agenda and the national socialist agenda are staggering!
8:08 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Well stated, Steve. We can call out the right when they pander to their base by acquiescing or even actively supporting violent speech and actions. Why do they consider the militias that do combat drils in the woods on weekends all over this country as patriots? The right wing militias are training with AK-47s, not to repel invaders, but to kill other Americans. When they allow Sarah Palin and other GOP leaders to accuse the president of trying to kill their grandmother, or telling them to "re-load" that is clearly hate speech that is designed to provoke actions, even violent actions. They will try to deny these things but this is classic right wing demagogic politics, using hate, fear and division to obtain political ends. Even our friend, Jack Roberts will claim he is against this sort of thing, but he doesn't have the courage to call out his own party on this extremism in a public way.(although his own party has utter contempt for him and his "moderation.")
12:06 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
Carla, the left wing ass missed my point, which is this killer deserves to die for killing a federal judge, a 9-year old girl, four other innocent persons, while targeting and wounding a sitting member of Congress.
So while Blue Oregonites continue to spew their own brand of vitriol and hate towards conservatives (a prerequisite of progressive tolerance), how many liberal Lefties will join me in calling for the federal death penalty in this case?
I suspect not many. Instead, they will rant and rave against Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Tea Party, GOP in general, and of course Fox News, while mostly ignoring the killer responsible for this unforgiveable tragedy.
So while left wing idealogues will squeeze every bit of political gain out of this senseless murder spree, I prefer to focus on encouraging Eric Holder to prosecute and secure a death penalty conviction of the alleged killer.
But I also realize my view is a distinct minority here on your Blue turf.
1:25 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
I will gladly support the death penalty for the alleged shooter AND I will "rant and rave against Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Tea Party, GOP in general, and of course Fox News."
The joys of not being shackled to a single ideology.
4:00 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
I don't believe in the death penalty. Why would I call for something that I don't believe in?
And stop accusing me of "ignoring the killer". It's just an obfuscation about the responsibility that rightwingers own for failing to stop the violent rhetoric that's become the stock in trade for the likes of Beck, Savage, Coulter, etc.
The culpability of the right wing media machine in this tragedy is evident.
So much for the "party of personal responsibility", eh?
6:58 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
Bruce, though I believe that what the shooter did was very wrong, I don't believe that adding another wrong on top of that, the death penalty, will somehow make things any better.
And look at you--you're calling for the death penalty, even though you know very little about the shooter. From the accounts that have come in so far, it appears that he is mentally ill. Do you really favor executing offenders who are mentally ill?
Tell me, how will executing the shooter make this situation any better?
8:05 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Michael:
The death penalty should not be used against the mentally ill.
But I thought the assumption here on Blue Oregon is that this shooter was a politically motivated, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage devotee who obviously represents conservative Tea Party Republicans everywhere.
So you're point is well-taken, even if I did not make it clear. No death penalty for legally insane. Otherwise, there is no better case for the federal death penalty than killing a federal judge in the course of attempting to assasinate a member of Congress.
8:12 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Is it your contention that one cannot be mentally ill AND incited or motivated by right wing propaganda? If so, that has little or no basis in fact.
4:11 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
Bruce, she didn't vote against Pelosi (who was going to win) - she voted for John Lewis. as someone who represents an AZ district on the Mexican border, who voted for health care reform & who opposes the AZ immigration (so-called) law, her vote for Rep Lewis was a symbolic statement of her values. i'm pretty sure Pelosi applauded the vote: it was a shrewd & unequivocal use of that vote.
7:56 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
Free speech has consequences.
Time to man up, lame stream media, poisoned climate, job killing taxes, shoot and target, death panels, kill and threats are some of the words that have radicalized some citizens.
The shooting in Arizona is more than a cautionary tale. It is time for all of us to stop.
The shooting in Arizona reminded me of the man attending a large town hall meeting in Medford for Senator Wyden two years ago. This man held up a poster calling for the death of President Obama. The Senator was heckled, shouted at and insulted many times during the town hall.
It is time to stop.
All of us witnessed the hateful campaign literture in the recent Oregon election.
It is time to stop.
9:49 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
The moron holding up a poster calling for the death of Obama should have been arrested on the spot. Advocating violence against elected public officials is a crime, period.
9:04 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
Here is another pearl.
The Republican challenger to Congresswoman Giffords held fundraiser where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle for $50 bucks.
9:05 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
Words and symbols have consequences. The right wing apologists and defenders here need to take note that the GOP had a major teaparty candidate who was on the record advocating gun violence to achieve political ends, and not one, not one single member of the GOP leadership called her out on that. When Michelle Bachman said that Dem. members of Congress were disloyal traitors, not one, not a single GOP leader called her out on that. When Sarah Palin used a gunsite targetting Gabriella Giffords and other Dem. Congressional Reps, not one, not a single GOP leader confronted her on it. Acquiesence in violent speech is the same as advocating it. The GOP needs to take a hard look at itself and its responsibility for promoting violence, and presiding over political rallies where attendees are encouraged to bring guns and make threatening and hateful statements about our duly elected president. And when Newt Gingrich, a national GOP leader compares the president to Stalin and Hitler, his own party needs to confront him on hate speech.
9:58 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
"Words and symbols have consequences."
Exactly. Can you imagine the outrcry from the right if some liberal wacko took a potshot at Palin or Bachman or John Boehner?
1:22 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Bill, comments like yours are such a turn-off -- they only help your opposition ... keep em' coming! I suspect that when the staff here reads them, they cringe a little and worry just a teeny bit about what you're going to say next.
9:48 a.m.
Jan 9, '11
The political dialogue in this country has come to be dominated by the professional hate peddlers of the right. Their seven- and eight-figure incomes depend on keeping their audiences hooked on hate, and as with any other addiction, the addicts require stronger and stronger doses, which the hate peddlers are more than willing to provide.
Where will this end? Either (a) responsible Republicans and conservatives will denounce and repudiate the professional hate peddlers or (b) horrors like what happened in Tucson yesterday will become routine.
1:26 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
My conservative friends are being very quiet about this event. I am hoping maybe the "get it."
4:12 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
i repeat this phrase from Thich Nhat Tran constantly, and i honestly do try to live it:
There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.
6:52 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
For all the talk about how the 2010 elections were like 1994, I never thought about 1995 and the Oklahoma City bombing. That's what this reminds me of more then anything else.
9:55 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
There is a parallel. Timothy McVeigh was a nut-job who was incited by anti-govt. hate talk and groups like the Christian Patriot movement. He acted largely alone but the hate speech environment was created by the right wing of the Republican Party who motivates their base with anti-govt. hate speech and paranoid conspiracy theories about govt. take-overs and plots. They were spreading the same rhetoric then from people like Thomas Paine about how "the tree of freedom needs to be watered with the blood of martyrs" every generation. To me there is great parallel with the violent right wing fundamentalist rhetoric found in the Middle East. And today the father-son "patriots" who bombed a Woodburn bank and killed a police chief professed great admiration for Timothy McVeigh. The violent anti-govt. speech of the right wing is either encouraged or at least acquiesced to by the GOP.
9:46 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
Sarah Palin is trying to evade her bulls-eye incitement during the election claiming it wasn't really a gun related icon she was using. Except that she was caught in the lie when she tweeted proudly about her "bull's eye" on 20 Dem. Congressional Reps, Gabrielle Giffords included. http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/01/09/palin_staffer_insists_crosshair_graphic_wasnt_about_guns.html
Man-up, Palin! Turns out the "party of personal responsibility" is the party of wimps when it comes to being truthful and taking ownership of personal behavior.
10:08 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
Nice to see you aren't letting a crisis go to waste. Probably doesn't matter to any of the victims or their families if the shooter was Red or Blue...Democrat or Republican...liberal or conservative. Sure seems to matter to you folks, though. I just love the Procrustean analysis of the situation before any real facts have been revealed.
11:18 p.m.
Jan 9, '11
You cannot undo the damage with snotty remarks.The widespread reaction to the killings is enough already with the hate filled rhetoric. The jury of public opinion is that Palin and other hate mongers have to step back.
6:15 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Lame defense of the right, Dan. What we do know is that this guy was an anti-govt. nut job and that he planned to assassinate Congresswoman Giffords. These nut jobs are out there and they find fuel for their fire from the anti-govt. nihilism and rhetoric of the tea bagger GOP. Loughner's conspiracy theories about the govt. making reality and mind control with covert language and "New World Order" paranoia are not his invention. They come from the GOP right wing. When Sarah Palin's command to her followers to "don't retreat, re-load" it becomes marching orders for some killers and political terrorists. And it found Palin's target, Gabrelle Giffords.
8:54 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Bill, I've read your comments over the years here, and if one consistent theme emerges...it would be that Republicans are to blame for everything. It is hard for me to imagine you being objective about any event where there is even the slightest possibility of getting traction against what you constantly harangue as a great evil in our society. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but sadly you are a one-string banjo.
9:36 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
No, I would like Republicans too return to the civil discourse and the moderate policies I remember growing up in Oregon. Our greatest Oregon governor was a Republican, Tom McCall. And Hatfield certainly was one of our greatest senators. These great men would not even be accepted in the GOP today.
Your argument is a silly straw man argument. There was a time in the 60s and 70s where most of the violent rhetoric and behavior was coming from the left. AT this time in our history the GOP has left moderation and civil discourse and gone to the dark side. This election cycle for the first time I can remember in my 60plus years, we have had a U.S. senatorial candidate advocating gun violence for political ends, and not surprisingly a GOP candidate. And we have Michelle Bachman, a prominent GOP leader, calling for her supporters to be "armed and dangerous." And we have a now GOP Speaker of the House who announced the Dem. Congressional candidate who he was campaigning against would be a "dead man" for voting for Health Care. Basically I'm asking for Republicans to just stop the violence and the division, and stop promoting haters like Glenn Beck who are calling for Armageddon and civil war in our country. Nuff said.....
6:19 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
In rebuttal to what you have said, Patricia Maisch, the woman who bravely snatched the magazine from the shooter and saved lives, was interviewed by Fox News and puts the blame squarely on the right wing GOP and right wing media: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/9/934872/-Something-you-dont-hear-everyday-on-Fox-News....
There's a reason the shooter did not target a Republican.
8:24 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
For all the liberal progressives who insist the level of political vitriol in the nation is due soley to "right wing nuts," perhaps it's time you learn a little about left wing hate directed at conservatives.
WARNING: Most of you will not be able to objectively view this material because you will be so obsessed with hating the messenger that you lose sight of the message.
9:15 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Please cite which liberal progressive insisted that all political vitriol is the providence of "right wing nuts"? Your premise is false, Bruce. Stop treating us like we're stupid.
Aberrations of violent rhetoric from the left are no match for the constant stream of invective spewn forth from right wing talkers who own the radio airwaves almost exclusively. Not to mention their high rating television programs that cater to this very thing.
Own up and stop making excuses.
10:02 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Carla, who's the one making excuses here?
For you and the Left, any example of hate speech toward Palin, Bush, McCain (yes, he's a distant cousin) and others is consider a mere "aberration" in your book.
Sounds like you're the one excusing Left wing hate while broad brushing the Tuscon massacre as a product of "constantly spewn right wing invective."
You want a constantly spewn stream of left wing invective? Start at the top of this thread and read.
Stop treating me like I'm stupid.
10:19 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Bruce: You're choosing to ignore the obvious and factual information in an effort to shirk the right's responsibility. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's disgusting and shameful not to take responsibility for your part when people are dying. Own up to what's going on and stop dodging.
10:47 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Carla, Own up to what? Somehow I'm now responsible for this killer's rampage?
The only people trying to link this cold-blooded killer to "right wing hate speech mongers" are liberal Democrats who famously never let a crisis go wasted when political gain can be made at the expense of others - including dead victims.
I have nothing to dodge, excuse or take responsibility for, other than my expressly stated view that the killer - if convicted and not legally insanse - should be executed by the federal government for what he did. And I won't dodge or excuse that view.
All the Lefties are desperate to link this killer with their own hated boogey-men (and women) on the right, though without any proof this guy was motivated by anything he may have read, heard or watched on Fox News.
As far as I know, investigators have yet to produce from his residence a dog-eared copy of Glenn Beck's "Arguing with Idiots" - and he didn't borrow mine.
10:55 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
You're responsible for obfuscating the issue, denying the culpability of violent rhetoric and refusing to hold both your political and media leaders accountable, Bruce.
Your excuse that he's just mentally-ill is appalling and absurd. Mentally-ill and vulnerable people are especially susceptible to heated and violent rhetoric.
Your flat refusal to be the least bit introspective and thoughtful on this issue is sadly typical of what's happened to the GOP in this country. Rather than actually consider that the poisonous invective from your leaders might actually lead to people being hurt or killed (the proverbial "fire!" in a crowded theater), you'll double down.
It's disgusting.
11:21 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Carla, I'm not saying this killer is mentally ill. In fact I hope he's not so he can lawfully be executed after conviction.
So while you're busy trying to hold me accountable for what you consider right wing violent rhetoric, what are you and Blue Oregonites doing in your own tent to quell the lefist hate speech directed at conservative politicians?
From this thread, the answer is nothing.
11:54 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
"Leftist hate speech," whatever that means, does not exist, except in the feverish minds of right wingers like yourself. You and others like you had better get used to the fact that you now will be held accountable for the violence, racism and other vitriol being spewed by the Tea Partiers and GOP extremists. If anything positive comes of this act of right wing terrorism, it will be that the large majority of us non-"conservative" Americans no longer will tolerate people like you who refuse to take responsibility for their attempts at tearing down our society.
12:03 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
I have always condemned and will continue to do so, any violent rhetoric that comes from the left.
Now pick up the mirror and take a long, hard, thoughtful look, Bruce. And stop making excuses for your lack basic decency.
12:40 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Funny, revealing the left's hatred and pointing out their complicity is "obfuscating."
That must mean the talking point is pin this on the right, no matter how.
10:20 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Name the Democratic leaders who have advocated violence or used violent symbolism or speech in campaigning or political behavior. Name the Dem. senatorial candidate who has advocated gun violence for political ends.Name the Democratic political leaders who have called their opponents traitors. I don't think you are stupid, but you sure like to play the victimization charge.
If you want to do something useful, if you love your party and its principles, then call for your leadership and members to hold forth civil, non-violent discourse,and hold your teabagger friends accountable when they advocate violence towards govt. and govt. officials.
11:16 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Well, Bill, since you asked about Democrats using violent symbolism or speech in campaigning...
What Democratic senator running for President said about the GOP, "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun"?
D'oh!
12:41 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Easy, http://lewwaters.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/liberals-call-for-an-end-to-the-rhetoric-of-violence-and-hate/
10:34 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
I wouldn’t talk about hating the messenger, Bruce. It brings to mind how Republicans went crazy in 2009 because the Department of Homeland Security had the temerity to suggest that right wing extremists posed a growing danger to the country.
I wish Republicans had taken that message seriously instead of calling for Napolitano’s resignation...
3:06 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Here is the Homeland Security Report for those interested.
11:50 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Hey Earth to Bruce! You're not entitled to make up your own "facts" during a debate.
Why do right wing shills like you infest blogs like this anyway? Are you paid to do so by the RNC or Oregon GOP?
1:10 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
How many TV personalities were shown there? How many radio personalities were shown there? How many elected government officials past or present were shown there? (I might have missed them)
All I saw were a bunch of private citizens, exercising the Constitutional rights to be A**holes!
9:07 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
This is not a contest to see which side has made threats. You completely miss the point. We learned once again that language has consequences. What a sad sad way to be reminded.
Words matter.
10:11 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
I'd say actions matter more than words, Paulie, that's why I watch what the left does--not necessarily only what they say.
10:20 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Clean up your own backyard, Victoria. There's more than enough to do there.
10:17 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
I'll never forget interviewing opponents to same sex marriage and the next thing I knew I was put on a watch list, with website postings headlined, "Victoria Taft Calls on Us to Oppress." It was picked up by the likes of one of your leaders, Bill Bradbury, who claimed I was a homophobe and all kinds of things. So words turned into vitriolic "hate speech" against me by your buddies. Oh, yeah, those guys who put me on a 'hate' website--that was temperate speech, now wasn't it? We report what you say and do and urge people to step forward and run for office or, at the least, vote against them. That's hate speech?
That's not hate, that's democracy.
10:21 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Relative to what happens each day for hours and hours by your peers in talk radio and television, your complaint is a drop in the bucket.
And which anti-gay marriage advocate was hurt or killed, Victoria?
10:32 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
From fabricating a false Voter Registration Card to link this nutcase to the right to all of the false claims of vitriol on the right, the unbridled hatred of the left is on full display for the world to see.
A poster of president Bush in cross hairs is only a metaphor. The same for any Democrat is labeled inciting.
Obama saying "if they bring a knife, we will bring a gun" is also just a metaphor. Sarah Palin saying a politician is "targeted" brings cries of inciting hate.
Examples of left-winged hate are prevalent, but go ignored: http://victoriataftkpam.blogspot.com/2011/01/liberals-call-for-end-to-rhetoric-of.html all that matters is furthering the left-wing agenda du jour.
Paulie Brading says "words matter" and indeed they do. But, the left's words seem to continue unabated as vitriol and hate from the left flows all too easy.
End the hate, beginning with yourselves.
10:38 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Stop ignoring the vomitous mass of constant rightwing invective coming out of radio and television sets in this country, Lew. It's far and away a Republican media thing--and its time to end it.
Do what your party says you're about: take personal responsibility. End the violent rhetoric--the unending stream of threatening, ugly words that incite vulnerable, frightened people.
You have the power to hold both your elected GOP leaders and conservative media figures accountable. Do it now, before more people are hurt or killed.
10:50 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Poor Carla, I give well over 40 links to vitriol from left-wing sources and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
How many innocent children will have to die before you liberals end the hateful lying rhetoric seen daily from your politicians and pundits ends?
Clean up your own backyard Liberals. Your hypocrisy is blinding!
10:57 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
I could give you 40 links from just ONE DAY of rightwing talk television and radio, Lew. That's the point.
Stop obfuscating, denying and step up to do what's right. Take responsibility for the actions of your leaders and hold them accountable.
10:58 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
The difference is, Carla, I DID give you over 40 links.
Stop your hate!
11:04 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Actually Lew, that's not the difference. That's obfuscating.
You're not interested in having an honest discourse. You're interested in making excuses. Let's be clear.
Can you show me any left analogs to McVeigh, Paul Hill, Michael Griffin, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, James Kopp, Scott Roeder, James von Brunn, or Byron Williams?
I don't defend every lefty ass out there who says stupid, nasty things. That's the real difference, Lew. I won't do it. You, by inference at best, do so for the right.
10:21 a.m.
Jan 11, '11
Silly Lew, citing sources is obfuscation. I'll make a note of it. You guys just keep changing the rules. It's hard to keep up.
10:19 a.m.
Jan 11, '11
Please do, Carla.
10:53 a.m.
Jan 11, '11
I do, Victoria. As do those here at Blue Oregon. When we see that kind of rhetoric here either by commenters or by our leaders..legitimate violent rhetoric, we've called them on it.
I know that self-examination and thoughtful introspection are probably too much to ask from you. But people are dead. Try.
11:48 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Hypocrisy???!!! You take the cake, pal. Here's a hint. When attempting to debate an issue, one is not entitled to simply make up his or her own "facts" on the spot. You and other rightwing extremists, and you people alone, are responsible for the violent and toxic political culture that is now threatening to destroy any last vestiges of democracy in America. You people, quite frankly, are committing slow-motion treason against the United States.
10:20 a.m.
Jan 11, '11
Sources, please.
11:56 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Who let you have access to a computer? People like you, who constantly try to assault the foundations of this country, no longer will be tolerated by the large mass of non-crazy Americans. Do yourself a favor and disappear.
10:57 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Even Europe sees the hypocrisy and hateful vitriol spewing from the left.
From today's Der Spiegel,
"Of all people, it is precisely those who have complained the loudest about the culture of debate -- about the rhetoric of the Tea Party, the right wing's harsh words and the baseless Obama-Hitler comparisons -- who are now poisoning the debate with their own baseless insinuations. With little reliance on facts, they began searching for scapegoats for the attack and they found them, selectively, among the right wing, the Tea Party, Republican Party boss Michael Steele and Tea Party heroine Sarah Palin."
"The accusations being lodged are grave. "Mission accomplished, Sarah Palin," leftist blogger Markos Moulitsas sneered after the bloodbath. Meanwhile, MSNBC commentator Keith Olbermann called for Palin to be ousted from the Republican Party if she didn't repudiate her role in "amplifying violence and violent imagery in politics." In his column in the New York Times, Paul Krugman sought to link the "toxic rhetoric" coming from right-wing preachers of hate with the assassination attempt. And former member of Congress Chris Carney said Palin should 'say she was wrong'."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,738627,00.html
End your hate, Liberals
11:09 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
That must be why England has banned Michael Savage from the airwaves in their country, because "Europe" is unhappy with the American left.
Good grief, Lew.
11:10 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Within minutes of this horrible event, I saw commentators rush to label this apparent criminal with the TEA party and Sarah Palin. I find all this debate reprehensible. I am thinking of a Federal judge, a nine year old girl, a husband protecting his wife, a congressional aide, a wounded Congresswoman and some others.
Give the finger pointing a rest for a while, B.O. posters.
11:59 a.m.
Jan 10, '11
Right. A left-leaning politician is shot in the head by an unbalanced man who left a trail of right wing insanity behind him and it's not political? Can I have some of what you've taken?
3:04 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Sure. It's called clarity of thought and reason. You should give it a try.
12:00 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Loughner did what the Tea Party, Palin, et. al been calling for all along: he locked and loaded his Second Amendment remedies and he murdered six people at a political event.
3:02 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
So the answer is: You can't give it a rest. Therefore you are what you decry in others.
4:09 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
The answer is, nobody should "give it a rest" until the rightwing holds their leaders accountable for their violent rhetoric.
12:06 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
I think the most consequential inflammatory speech can be heard on a regular basis from elected leaders of both parties: "All options are on the table."
The U.S. will ally with and support with funding and training of militaries dictatorial mass-murderers such as Kagame of Rwanda and Museveni of Uganda, but it will keep all "options on the table" as regards a country that hasn't invaded another in hundreds of years (Iran).
The U.S. will not sign a peace treaty with North Korea, which North Korea has sought for decades. Instead, the U.S. keeps "all options on the table."
The U.S. will support Israel as it keeps "all options on the table."
I like the approach taken by the outgoing president of Brazil. He does not threaten in the arena of international relations- he merely recognizes international law and attempts to find solutions to disputes.
Compared to Lula, practically all US federal government politicians are purveyors of the most consequential kind in inflammatory, violence-inducing rhetoric.
12:12 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Growing up in the 50s in Klamath Falls a terrible incident happened when a disgruntled anti-govt. citizen walked into a meeting of the Board of County Commissioners and emptied his gun into those present killing several. What was even more disturbing was that there was a public outcry
In adult life as a public servant, I worked in the public sector as a mental health commitment investigator, and crisis intervention specialist for several years. The threat of violence was present nearly every day.I worked with the mentally ill and personality disordered, and I knew too well how they are influenced by what they hear and see in the media, especially political leaders, and especially when those statements entail conspiratorial fear mongering content. In the 1980s I was consulted by the Secret Service about a real threat on the occasion of President Reagan's visit to K. Falls. I myself received threats from angry and paranoid clients towards me and my family. I became very aware of any legitimizing of violence and contempt towards public servants, because I was one of them. I knew personally how many volatile individuals there are among the populace, mentally ill and personality disordered ready to act with violence towards public officials when given the permission for doing so.
I grew up in the household of Italian immigrant grandparents who were Eisenhower Republicans. They didn't hate anyone. They respected government officials and civil servants. They never talked about wanting anyone dead, or accusing their political opponents of treason, or of not being "real Americans" least of all the President of the United States. They didn't hate anyone, especially newcomers to this country, because they knew themselves too well what it is to be the target of hatred. The Republican party they knew was one of common sense, benevolence, and rationality, and represented small businesses like theirs. We live in a different America today with a different Republican Party. I wish it was more like the party of my grandparents.
I've been accused here of holding an unreasonable rancor towards everything Republican. Not true.
My father was also a life long Republican. He was a decorated marine who received the Silver Star at age 19 for bravery in combat on Pelilu, later wounded on Okinawa. He was a patriot who in his career worked in a government V.A. facility with veterans like himself who suffered from PTSD and alcoholism to help them heal from combat and have fruitful lives.
My father was also an elected official in his later years, and was proud to be a Republican until he saw the Republican Party change and become extremist and hateful in its outlook. Two weeks before he died he got out of his sick bed and changed his registration, convinced his party had left him. He too would have liked to see the Republican Party return to moderation and common sense. For all our sakes, for the sake of our country, I hope the same.
12:25 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Bill- Eisenhower himself said he'd like to see Patrice Lumumba dead. And that did happen shortly after he said that.
My point being that bad as these internal incidents in the U.S. are, they are not as consequential as some international ones (many of them initiated by the U.S.).
12:42 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
From the UK Telegraph, "How sick do you have to be to start making political capital out of the killing of six people including a nine-year old girl, long before anyone has the remotest clue what the murderer’s motives were, or his political affiliations, or his state of mind?"
"Not sick at all, to judge by the response of so many US Tweeters in the immediate aftermath of the Arizona shootings. When you’re a liberal, it seems, cloying sanctimoniousness, grotesque moral posturing, double standards, hypocrisy and cynical, malevolent smearing all come as naturally and healthily as breathing."
Even Liberal Europe can see how out of control and filled with hate American Liberals have become.
End your hate, Liberals!!! Stop inciting your loose cannons to violence.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100071019/the-arizona-shootings-were-like-kwanzaa-come-early-for-americas-liberal-fascists/
12:54 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Even the conservative Jonathan Chait sees it's time for conservatives to own up:
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/81155/how-the-giffords-tragedy-made-me-anti-anti-anti-political-hate-speech?utm_source=ESP+Integrated+List&utm_campaign=877a3ec133-TNR_Pol_011011&utm_medium=email
12:52 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Enough already, liar. Rupert Murdoch and the Telegraph do not represent anyone except the same forces that allowed this murderous right wing rampage to take place. Your apologies and excuses for outright murder are so despicable as to render you beyond the pale. Own up to your responsibility as a member of society. For once. People like you are killing your fellow citizens. Enough is enough.
1:00 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
A great analytical essay by Paul Krugman today on this violent event.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10krugman.html?hp
1:05 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Democratic Congressman on GOP Gov. Rick Scott: 'They ought to put him against a wall and shoot him.'
1:15 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Dems Urge Obama to Pin Shooting on Tea Partiers
Memo to Paul Krugman and Rep Van Hollen
Sick, twisted triggerman responsible, not Palin or political rhetoric
It's all out there for the world to see. End your hate, liberals!
1:16 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
I get it, Lew. You're retired and have nothing better to do than troll progressive websites for pay. Are you funded by the state or national GOP/Tea Party?
1:39 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Sarah Palin is the real victim of this tragedy according to Glenn Beck: "But please look into protection for your family. An attempt on you could bring the republic down."
And as we have seen here from the right wing trolls, the quickest and most obvious tactic of evading responsibility is to claim victimization for yourself and your group.
2:15 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
[Just enough to make a Liberal's head spin](http://nation.foxnews.com/jared-loughner/2011/01/10/sick-rush-reveals-lefts-agenda-giffords]
"The first thought, the desperate hope, that the losers in November of 2010 had was that they could revitalize their political fortunes because of this unfortunate shooting of a congresswoman in Arizona. That was the most important thing to them -- and that, to me, is sick."
In case it has been forgotten, the Tea Party won in November. Winners don't go on shooting sprees.
2:16 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Code here is far different than I am used to.
Just enough to make a Liberal's head spin
3:47 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Pathetic, Lew. Just pathetic. Chris Mathews just questioned Tea Party Nation Founder, Judson Philips, on one simple question. Why do Tea Party leaders ask their followers to come to political events armed with guns? He couldn't, wouldn't answer. But the answer is clear and obvious. It's to threaten and intimidate opponents. That's the level of discourse the GOP has declined to these days. And when they don't bring a gun, they may wear a t-shirt that says, "I'm not armed. (This time.)" So the whole point here is "I will resort to gun violence to intimidate and dominate you." Or "Second Amendment remedies". This is what the GOP stands for today in the field of political discourse. When people threaten gun violence the next step is to use gun violence.
4:39 p.m.
Jan 10, '11
Hey Bill:
Buried way up above you asked me to name a Democratic leader who used violent symbolism or speech in campaigning or political behavior. Perhaps you felt safe in asking what you thought was a rhetorical question.
So, Bill, any idea which Democratic senator running for president said this about the GOP during his 2008 campaign - and which reportedly drew laughter and applause from Democrats attending?
"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"
First progessive to get the answer without clicking the link gets an autographed copy of Savages' Liberalsim is a Mental Disorder.
10:52 a.m.
Jan 11, '11
So after all this, you came up with one...and a lame one at that?
Look Bruce, I know it's important to conservatives to feel right and righteous..and often to do so at the expense of actually doing some self-examination. But you've crossed so far into ridiculous that you're embarrassing yourself.
10:17 p.m.
Jan 12, '11
Two comments:
1) The shooter was a nut-job. He had no consistent political affiliation. He was simply crazy. You can't pin this on anybody but the shooter.
2) The vitriolic political speech we see today isn't anything new. Read your history; it goes back a long, long time.