Hypothetical Hysteria
Paulie Brading
There are some serious drawbacks to electing people who warn of government takeover, socialism, who fan immigration flames and warn of death panels. I'm tired of hypothetical hysteria.
If you jumped out of an airplane over Washington D.C. and you had 24 hours to report everything you learned at the Glenn Beck rally, what would you say?
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7:01 p.m.
Aug 29, '10
Why does that guy keep crying?
7:11 p.m.
Aug 29, '10
Live report from DC:
"That assclown will do or say anything to keep getting a paycheck."
9:34 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
Which makes him totally different from most Americans!
Where does that leave political "party animals" that will do or say anything to get their candidate elected...for free!
8:23 p.m.
Aug 29, '10
Beck is the anti-King.
9:38 p.m.
Aug 29, '10
Twenty-four hours to describe "everything I learned" at a Beck rally? What am I, Howard Cosell? That's 23 hours, 59 minutes more than I need.
Beck is an ex-disk jockey charlatan demagogue who is presently making millions of dollars channeling the angst of millions of old white southern racists while simultaneously fleecing them with a pump-and-dump gold coin scheme.
He lies so much that PolitiFact has stated "he has received more False ratings than any other". His fans don't care however; they specifically adore him for telling them what they want to hear, rather than the truth.
And that's about it.
9:57 p.m.
Aug 29, '10
Beck's fans are the same 20-25% who believe Obama is a Muslim and is not an American but a secret Manchurian candidate planted here by Al Qaeda.
I saw one media outlet describing Beck as a "new Christian conservative leader." Haha.... Obviously the "talking head" who wrote that doesn't understand the relationship between Christian Fundamentalist Evangelicals and the Mormon Church.The fundies don't acknowledge Mormons as Christians. That's why Mitt Romney didn't get the nomination last go-round.
9:40 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
For the record, Hillary Clinton spammed people with the "Obama is a Muslim" line, which is when it went mainstream wingnuttery.
Comparisons can leave you rationalizing anything. Personally, I have an absolute moral compass. You support Obama if you agree with assassinating Americans without any due process. You support him because you believe it's OK to flaunt international law and kidnap people. You support him because you agree with his throwing Goldman Sachs the BP "trust fund", which actually functions to keep the spill off the books for years.
Those are serious issues. Bush was worse, isn't a moral position, it's a comparison. You either find those behaviors morally acceptable or you don't. If you support Obama, you do. Do mainstream Democrats have the integrity to face up to that?
6:10 a.m.
Aug 30, '10
Knights in white satin.
10:23 a.m.
Aug 30, '10
Beck is the modern example of PT Barnums a sucker born every minute. His ascendency is an interesting comment on how warped our politics have become. That he clings desperately to Palin is also interesting in a cynical way.
2:49 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
God is great.
3:33 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
Sounds more colorful in Arabic.
7:54 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
true either way ...
8:39 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
True as in mythical sky-pixies sort of "true"...?
12:09 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
If that's what you believe ...
7:59 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
Actually, at this point still imaginary.
3:16 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
Markos Moulitsas has a new book out, entitled "American Taliban." Beck is the face of the American Taliban.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/8/30/897498/-Early-reaction-to-American-Taliban
12:02 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
<sarcasm> Oh yeah, Moulitsas is a good source </sarcasm>
3:48 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
Beware to not use your value system as the standard for those who are different than you based on gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, abilities, religion, sexual orientation, etc.
4:00 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
Beck tells the truth and most of those here on this forum wouldn't know the truth if it gathered by the Millions in DC twice in a years time... I feel sorry for you.
6:05 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
Bwhahaha... what "truth" does this rodeo clown tell?
I await to hear the truth™ on pins and needles.
6:30 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
Yes, we heard the "truth" from Beck, that he is the real Christian, and all of the rest of us are phonies and fodder for hell. But from what I hear, even the fundies and the Christian Taliban, really don't think Mormons are Christians. So go figure.
7:12 p.m.
Aug 31, '10
I suggest you listen to what was actually said; you may learn something.
6:52 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
I won't take the bait, but if posters here believe Beck's appeal is limited to "millions of old white southern racists" then they are seriously underestimating Beck's influence (and the threat).
Beck leads in the 25-54 demographic among all cable news shows. His ratings are down by 1/3 this year, but he still draws 2.1 million viewers nightly.
This man is appealing far more broadly than just to a narrow slice of old Southern rednecks.
8:08 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
As an army of mostly old white religious morons descends on the nation's capitol, we are reminded of the completely pathetic state of today's American Conservatives.
9:03 p.m.
Aug 30, '10
There's gold in them thar hills! No, wait. It's really fools gold...
6:25 a.m.
Aug 31, '10
Or as Tbogg wrote
7:05 a.m.
Aug 31, '10
"Glenn Beck's rally was large, vague, moist, and undirected—the Waterworld of white self-pity."
Christopher Hitchens
12:03 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
Why do you hate white people?
7:09 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
And you people wonder why you're called morons.
12:01 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
Why do you judge people by the color of their skin? sexual preference?
1:45 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
Geoff:
You’re definitely confused. Let me try to clear something up for you.
When people point out important details like your party/movement is almost entirely made up of one race, i.e., white people, they aren’t “judging people by the color of their skin.” What they are trying to point out is that your party/movement is drawing a very narrow demographic and that actually means something Geoff.
Now, we certainly don’t agree that I, “hate white people” (you may notice in my picture that I happen to be white,) or that I judge people based on the color of their skin, so why don’t you try really really hard to focus on one simple fact: your party/movement really doesn’t appeal to people of color, non-Christians, non-heterosexuals, people who care about the environment, people who care about gender equity, etc. Now see if you can wrap your Neanderthal brain around this fact and maybe even provide a reasonable explanation to this ugly reality. I’m guessing you’re going have some trouble figuring this one out. Please don't respond w/ more stupid questions, just a substantive answer. I’ll be waiting.
Hint: watching FOX and reading the Bible won’t be much help on this one.
2:31 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
Mr. Welch,
You continue to speak of race, religious orientation, and sexual preference as if these are the criteria you hold to define a movement. This is the exact opposite of what Dr. King preached. The movement began and, continues to be, a counter to the intersection of special interest and the public sector (The rallying cry originated as, "No public money for private sector failure"). That said, it's remarkable just how much the movement typifies mainstream America.
According to Gallup: "In several respects ... their age, educational background, employment status, and race -- Tea Partiers are quite representative of the public at large."
Here's the Gallup link for you to ponder:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/tea-partiers-fairly-mainstream-demographics.aspx
2:57 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
Nobody asked if tea-baggers were considered "mainstream." Nice try Geoff.
Now see if you can answer the actual question I asked. I know you can do it....focus.
3:36 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
Mr. Welch,
In stating that "nobody asked if tea-baggers were considered 'mainstream'", you are denying "people of color, non-Christians, non-heterosexuals..." of mainstream status. I reject this characterization.
The gallup poll demonstrates just how close the movement is to mainstream thought. 1,033 people were contacted in the poll -- undoubtedly, "people of color, non-Christians, non-heterosexuals, people who care about the environment, people who care about gender equity, etc." were included in the poll. Certainly, many of these people would consider themselves "mainstream".
Whether or not a majority of the "people of color, non-Christians, non-heterosexuals, people who care about the environment, people who care about gender equity, etc." align with the movement is not covered in the poll, perhaps you can supply a poll that demonstrates your point as I have supplied you a poll that demonstrates mine.
Ultimately however you are still defining thought and dialog along lines of race, religion, & sexual orientation -- precisely the opposite of "content of character".
7:48 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
OK, Geoff, I’ll go ahead and answer for you.
The reason the Angry White Christian Hate Machine, i.e., the Tea Party doesn't appeal to the aforementioned groups is because it doesn’t represent their best interests. Funny thing, gay people like to have the same rights as everyone else, people of color don’t appreciate bigotry, environmentalists generally like clean air and water….you get the idea. So a political party chock full of bigots, anti-environmentalists, creationists, etc only looks good to a particular crowd.
9:16 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
Which part of the Tea Party platform covers gay-bashing and bigots?
You can find gay-bashers and bigots on both sides of the fence. Why you choose to brand the Tea Party in this way makes no sense.
11:44 a.m.
Sep 2, '10
Mr. Welch,
We are not a political party. We are not angry, nor are we white, nor are we christian, and we are most certainly not hate. We love. We represent many religions. We are of all skin colors. We are gays and straights. We care for the environment. Indeed, if you want to look at hate, just browse this conversation between you and I and you will find the hate you seek. I do not hate you, I love you and see so much potential in you, I'm praying for you.
7:19 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
Why are there only about three black registered Republicans left in he U.S., not counting Michael Steel and Alan Keyes? Why is the GOP virtually an entirely white party? Why is it nearly impossible for Republicans to get gay people to vote for them? Why does nearly every person/organization that gives a rat's ass about the environment identify w/ progressives? Why would decent ordinary Americans vote to cut taxes for billionaires in order to slash education and other essential services?
2:10 p.m.
Aug 31, '10
You folks do a great impression of arrogant liberal elitism. Some nice slights tossed at religion, at rural folks, at diet (and presumably overweight people).
Or maybe it's not an impression after all. Isn't this how the Democrats lost their majority last time.
I'll post again: if you think the followers of Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, and self-identified tea partiers are limited to old stupid overweight Southern white trash, you are sadly mistaken.
6:50 p.m.
Aug 31, '10
Elitism:
"Consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group."
If you're accusing me of believing that progressives are better than conservatives, I'm guilty. No impersonating going on here. After all Paul, isn't that why we choose/identify w/ political parties because we believe they are better than the others? Our politics are a direct reflection of our values and our principles. Let's not pretend that we don't all believe that our own values aren’t better than others.
Have you seen some of the video/pictures of conservative/tea party rallies? It says something about a movement, about a party, that is drawing a very narrow demographic. There’s a reason that these rallies are filled w/ droves of old, overweight, white, religious people and progressive rallies draw people of all colors, all ages, environmentalists, bikers, educators, peace activists, intellectuals, etc. Some of us have the courage to talk clearly and honestly about it. Sometimes the truth hurts Paul.
And is it not permitted in Paul Gronke's world to criticize popular ideologies like Christianity, Islam, etc? Just exactly what ideas are fair game? Is it only the faith-based ideologies that are off limits?
Lastly, the Dems lost their majority for a number of reasons, being progressive and being proud of it isn't one of them.
9:29 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
"If you're accusing me of believing that progressives are better than conservatives, I'm guilty."
Joshua, this is enlightening. I have often thought that this is the difference between progressives and those with a more libertarian view, and you have confirmed it.
Progressives like you apparently believe you are better than other people, that your ideas carry more weight, and that your policies should be imparted on others for their own well-being (the ignorant masses simply don't know what is good for them).
Libertarians, on the other hand, believe that nobody is better than anyone else; we are truly EQUAL. I think most conservatives feel that way too.
7:20 p.m.
Aug 31, '10
This is a really interesting strategy for many progressives and liberals; I haven't figured it out yet.
Instead of figuring out what is appealing about the message, and making a compelling argument to the contrary, you blast the listeners as morons, bigots, etc.
You legitimize everyone that calls progressives/liberals elitist, and drive people away by the thousands.
Unless . . . there is no compelling argument against the message?
7:06 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
What on Earth could possibly be so compelling about an anti-gay, anti-environment, anti-equal rights, anti-intellectual, anti-secular, anti-progressive message to a bunch of white right-wingers? I'll keep trying to figure this brain-buster out Ed. In the mean time, try to answer these questions:
Why are there only about three black registered Republicans left in he U.S., not counting Michael Steel and Alan Keyes? Why is the GOP virtually an entirely white party? Why is it nearly impossible for Republicans to get gay people to vote for them? Why does nearly every person/organization that gives a rat's ass about the environment identify w/ progressives? Why would decent ordinary Americans vote to cut taxes for billionaires in order to slash education and other essential services?
7:59 p.m.
Sep 1, '10
Joshua,
I didn't know this was about Republicans. I am not here to defend the Republican party.
Republicans have proven that they can make a real mess of things too.
Again, focus on the message.
7:32 p.m.
Aug 31, '10
Oh, and what I heard:
Faith, Hope, Charity
Justice, Freedom, Liberty
Respect for individual rights
Constitutional activism
Your color doesn't matter
Your religion doesn't matter
Take what is best about our past and make it the example for how we move forward.
Learn from our mistakes.
12:02 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
So, I understand GBs central message or motto was to restore America's honor. Can someone tell me if he identified when we lost it? Was it when we invaded Iraq for mythical WMDs? Was it when we opened up Gitmo? Was it when we said waterboarding is not torture? Was it when we started circumventing the constitution, walking all over our citizens' civil liberties and wire tapping at will? Was it when - even with contrary facts and evidence - some started calling our president a racist, Marxist, Muslim and claimed he wasn't a US citizen? Please, I would like to know. Really!
9:29 a.m.
Sep 1, '10
Why are Obamabots so fixated on why the right is crazy, as opposed to what they have to offer? Can we manage to ignore him? Once? The crying thing is the most stupid. Quick check of how often we've "noticed" this:
Mar 13, 2009 ... Beck was crying out for someone to step in by projecting his feelings of frustration onto a man who
Oct 2, 2009 ... Fox News host Glenn Beck is captured on video during a photo shoot having Vick's vapor rub smeared
May 4, 2010 ... Glenn Beck crying - an animated gif
Jul 23, 2010 ... Glenn Beck Crying Wahhhhhhhhhhh,
Aug 18, 2010 ... Glenn Beck's crying is a carefully rehearsed act, to make people believe he is sincere about whatever
I mean, for crying out loud!