I'm one of those who doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about on this subject, but I will say that the phrase "The City’s liability is limited through numerous personal guarantees from the Paulson family" is troublesome. I mean, what if the family files for bankruptcy? I can't believe that the Paulson's are SO certain that the revenue will appear that they'd make a 25-year guarantee without a loophole. But then again, I'm a cynical person.

I look forward to reading what more experienced minds have to say on this issue.

As someone who has been involved in this issue from the start I can assure you this is a very very good deal from the City. Alot of criticsim has been leveled at Mayor Adams, Leonard, Saltzman etc in recent months on a variety of issues, this should not be one of them.

If you look at where this proposal started and where it is now it is pretty remarkable.

Some of the key highlights:

1) First and foremost we have to recognize that PGE Park is a City Owned facility. Under this deal, despite almost $20 million in private investment from Paulson, it remains a 100% city owned facility.

2) The city obligation is about $11.5 million in bonds to help pay for the renovation. These are bonds to be paid through ticket taxes and the spectator facility fund (which is basically the revenue the city receives from PGE, Memorial and Rose Garden including parking). The current bonds will continue to be paid through payments from Paulson and the Spectator Facility Fund as they are now.

3) This is important: someone asked about the guarantees. One of the weaknesses in public/private partnerships is that they are generally backed by LLC's. Not in this case. Personal family guarantees. You can loathe Henry Paulson for how he made his money but that family is NOT going bankrupt in our lifetimes Especially when we are talking about 10-20 million dollars here people.

4) PSU - PSU stands to be a huge benefactor from this. They get a stadium that is tailor-made for their program and actually gives them a chance at success. That program is in a make or break place right now and a shiny remodeled, intimate stadium is a huge boost.

5) Green - Saltzman pushed for and got that the new PGE Park will meet Leed Certified Silver Certification

6) Civic Pride - You cannot deny the impact a sports team has on the ability to bring the community together. The Blazers resurgence is a wonderful example of this. The current Timbers are entering the 10th year and the Timbers Army is a pretty remarkable collection of over 2,0000 diverse Portlanders from all walks of life and political stripes united behind love of Portland and love of their Timbers. The pride runs deep in that lot.

7) Baseball - if their existed a "Beavers Army" the situation would be far different today. Paulson tried and failed to site a baseball stadium in 3 different Metro area locations (I for one still feel the Memorial Coliseum site would have been great). With no constituency clamoring for it (the reality is that Beavers get less than 2000 paying customers on average) Baseball is in all likelihood gone. Sad and unfortunate but without a home and without fans it is reality.

I'm a self admitted soccer nut. I played and have coached for over 40 years. I truly LOVE the game of Football (that is what the rest of the world calls our soccer). that being said, I have been of the belief from day 1 that this was and remains a bad deal for Portland.

1. The City remains on the hook for the upgrades done about 10 years ago without adding appreciably to revenue opportunity,

2. Sure, the re-kindled NASL rivalry of Vancouver-Seattle-Portland would be great to see, but at what cost? MLS isn't NASL (thank goodness), but the model remains doubtful. European and South american players of the highest caliber either pass through MLS on the way up, or pad their retirement by playing 3-5 years past their prime. It really is not quality play and is marred even more by the pitiful officiating. add to that the high potential for a strike or lock-out this Spring and the deal looks dubious.

3. Public money for stadia of any sort hardly ever offer a return on investment. The PGE Park is in that group. A few hundred construction jobs for a temporary time and then low paying (city subsidized) concession and maintenance jobs will be there. Those jobs were already there with the Beavers.

4. Anyone saying PSU needs help with their soccer program certainly doesn't follow the Game. PSU have been a respected power in collegiate soccer for decades. They don't need to share a refurbished stadium with MLS for respectability.

5. The Beavers got left out in the cold on this deal; literally. They have nowhere to go and their home schedule offered far more revenue dates than will MLS.

Again, If the city wanted to "guarantee $11.5 MM in exchange for a few hundred jobs in construction for less than a year, they would have been better suited teaming up with Walmart. (OK, I admit that was a cheap shot, but a whole lot more jobs in about the same wage range will be produced by a Walmart than will this stadium deal)

As a baseball fan, this deal makes me sick. Over 100 years of professional baseball in Portland and now it will come to an end. Why? Because the Major League Soccer commissioner declares that soccer and baseball can't coexist in a stadium (never mind that they've been doing that in Portland for over 30 years). The one benefit to this is construction work, but those jobs would be there for any large project. And certainly there are more pressing projects that the city should be pursuing. Other problems with this? Without baseball, the stadium will now sit idle at least 330 days a year. Despite the absence of direct taxpayer money going into the project, the perception will still be in many minds that the city is wasting money on a frivolous project. And as far as Paulson's monetary input, I don't think much of the money will actually come from him. Part of his payment will come from stadium naming rights. From my understanding, the city will also pay him interest on his prepayment of rent. And I'm afraid that an inevitable sale of the Beavers to someone in Tucson, Ariz., Richmond, Va., or elsewhere will provide much of the other money.

•No impact to the City’s General Fund •No impact to the City’s ability to provide basic services •No Urban Renewal funding

Funny, this is what they said when Vera dropped $35M on Glickman/Gardiner when minor league baseball was going to be a cash-cow.
Too bad the dream lasted one year.
Too bad we couldn't have spent it on the homeless, schools, keeping water rates low, fixing potholes, making downtown actually work.
Too bad we have people with no experince risking taxpayer funds on people much sharper than them like Paulson pere et fils (who I think could afford it).

Govt doing for-profit stuff doesn't work. Heck, it's hard enough for people of normal intelligence to make for-profit stuff work.

Sorry, meant:

"Vera dropped $35M on PGE Park for Mssrs. Glickman/Gardiner"

Given this is the same crowd that has gutted downtown, gave us the sowhat district (lots of pork for real estate developers for all the biotech jobs-that never arrived), a tram (rimshot) that went massively over budget, using more tax $$ for ugly condos in eastside neighborhoods, I have little faith thatt his deal will not be a turkey.

I am shccked that Garrett and Torridjoe haven't wighed in yet.....

Recalling the last PGE Park remodel, here's something that used to be on the park's website: "An outside consultant hired by the Portland City Council deemed the PGE Park deal with PFE (Portland Family Entertainment, owners of the Beavers at that time) one of the best in the United States. Payments to the City will be made prior to any distributions to PFE's partners, and any shortfall in payments to the City will be made up by PFE. This virtually guarantees that the City's debt will be repaid." Still waiting on that repayment.

I don't know if it's a good deal or not; I don't have the expertise to evaluate it. But I'm a bit skittish on this sort of thing. Given the outcome of the last time the city put $30 million+ into PGE Park, I won't be the least bit surprised if ten years from now MLS has come and and gone and we're trying to figure out what to do with a white elephant stadium filled with all kinds of neat bells and whistles that still haven't been paid for.

@ Kurt,

My responses:

1) Part of Merrit Paulson's rent payments are going towards paying off the 2001 retrofitting upgrades to PGE Park. The vast majority of the money went to structural upgrades for earthquake measures. Yes, they're still paying it off. And if they hadn't done that the stadium would've been appreciably more deteriorated. (I'll refrain from saying how terribly financed PFE was).

2) I'll point out that Manchester United has 716 GBP in debt as of yesterday. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article6997726.ece. And why does MLS have to be like Europe? This our game. Right here. Chelsea doesn't play Barca in Los Angeles. This is hardly the greatest excuse to stop the deal. "People, MLS is not the best in the world. Ergo, it's not worth it. Likewise, peewee soccer is not the best in the world. Lets end that too."

3) A job is a job is a job. (you're right about the low status of the wages though)

4) I hope you made an honest mistake because you said you know the "Game". The hint is Merlo Field.

5) Yes, the Beavers are out. The reason? Money. This incarnation of the Beavers started the same time as the Timbers (2001) and while one has increased its profile the other has not. Ticket prices are lower, and attendance is lower on average than the Timbers. Each Timbers game nets more money and will get even more with MLS prices. Also, Beavers need a better home. One that suits AAA baseball.

I welcome the Timbers and look forward to their great success. Bear in mind the World Cup this summer is going to generate a great deal of interest in the Timbers. MLS has historically seen an up-tick in attendance around the World Cup and that wave may ride into 2011.

Sam Adams:

The public-private partnership exemplifies the City’s commitment to supporting entrepreneurship in the business community

Bob T:

Yeah, like multi-millionaire Paulson needed the help.

I can't wait to sign the new recall petition.

Kurt Chapman:

Public money for stadia of any sort hardly ever offer a return on investment. The PGE Park is in that group. A few hundred construction jobs for a temporary time and then low paying (city subsidized) concession and maintenance jobs will be there. Those jobs were already there with the Beavers.

Bob T:

Exactly.

Steve Marx:

Vera dropped $35M on PGE Park for Mssrs. Glickman/Gardiner

Bob T:

Yup! And like now we were assured that it would be a good deal for Portland etc. etc. Some people never learn.

Looks like the Beavers were purchased by the wrong person (and he no doubt had this plan in mind all along, knowing that politicians and thousands of lemming voters fall for it every time, or most of the time).

Bob Tiernan Portland

I would argue on that 330 other days, the stadium could be used for a multitude of outdoor events: Concerts, WCC Soccer championship, high school sports, but this way you can have all of these and no second base in the middle of the field.

I have to agree with Jeff and Ms. Mel. A number of you should be slapped for gratuitous self indulgence and/or inability to follow a premise. It's a great deal, by any sane standard.

It should definitely have some dedicated use for "all of the rest" as well. Our local park is always booked, and not just footie, but Australian Rules, cricket and ultimate. I would love to see a day each week set aside to those sports, with a different one competing each week. I think people would just go, without even knowing what the sport was going to be. Some would become popular. THEN, you fund expansion of those sports, instead of just deciding that footie is the obvious choice. There are more than a few that think that if footie is the "beautiful game", then what I left in the commode is freaking gorgeous!

Just to clarify I was talking about PSU FOOTBALL. PSU doesn't even have a Men's Soccer team and the women's team isn't particularly strong. Kurt - if you are such a big fan of the game you would know the difference between PSU and U of P. The PSU Football program is at a make or break moment and this stadium remodel is going to be really helpful for that.

As far as revenue goes - the Timbers in 14 games right now make more money than the Beavers do in 72 home gates. Why? Better attendance, higher ticket prices and fewer operating costs (opening a stadium 14 times as opposed to 72). That is only going to increase dramatically come MLS.

As for the PFE 2001 debacle. The one thing never mentioned is that despite Glickman and Co. going tits up the general fund of the city was NEVER touched to satisfy payments on those bonds. The Spectator Facilities Fund (which cannot be used for General Fund programs) provided backing for the missed payments and when Merrit Paulson bought the team he satisfied back payments and nothing has been missed since.

Finally, the community already has access to PGE Park (you would be amazed how many soccer clubs practice there) and that would only increase in this plan. High School Football as well. Concerts are a trickier thing due to the good neighbor agreement with Goose Hollow - they aren't big fans of concerts at PGE.

All of the naysayers out there are going to be eating major crow come 2011 when the Timbers sell out that stadium for the entire year and the whole city is celebrating our new Major League Sports Franchise. PGE Park is going to be the envy of the league as it is downtown stadium, with old school character and allows for amazing fan experience.

The only question that remains is - WILL THE MAC CLUB FINALLY PAINT THEIR UGLY ASS BUILDING???

" if you drew this up generically and showed it to the mayor of any other city in America, they'd think you were crazy not to take it."

Kind like Glickman and Gardiner showed it to Vera. Why do you trust politicians in the town to spend mone wisely?

"It should definitely have some dedicated use for "all of the rest" as well."

I belive Lord Paulson's reques for this makeover was to dedicate it to soccer use only.

"That is only going to increase dramatically come MLS."

Assuming they don't go the way of NASL or USL or have a labor strike next season.

I belive Lord Paulson's reques for this makeover was to dedicate it to soccer use only.

Actually no. It was to be primarily a rectangular field that won't accommodate baseball. It will be used by PSU football, local high school teams, and local youth clubs.

You give yourself away with your sycophantic use of bojack's catchphrases. Why didn't you throw a "Fireman Randy" or "Mayor Creepy" in there as well since you're going for ad hominem attacks.

TJ, Anonymous does a great job of covering the points above. Whomever he/she is pretty much hit it out of the park. As far as the nostalgia argument about 100 years of baseball. Well, you can't really compete with that. Dwight Jaynes has a pretty good take on all of that you should check out.

Has anyone thought of what will occur to Tanner creek sewer line which is fragile, old, only 8 feet below the field surface and strains to handle current capacity, let alone the increased capacity this deal may incur?

From the city website http://www.portlandonline.com/bes/watershedapp/index.cfm?&wrapper=yes&action=DisplayContent&subjectid=1&sectionid=1&topicid=36&subwatershedid=10

Because of the age of the system -- some of the pipes dating back before 1900 -- a high percentage of sewers are in poor condition, there are hydraulic capacity problems and records of basement flooding. About two-thirds of the system is plagued with misaligned joints, cracks, and collapsing pipes, based on internal video inspections. Under peak flows, there is substantial surcharging due to backup from the Southwest Interceptor. Condition problems are concentrated in southern portion of the basin west of I-405. Streets undergo surcharging with a water surface level less than 8 feet from the ground surface.

Sewer main surcharging can happen during heavy rainstorms or spring run-off; the sewer system may not always be able to handle all the extra water flow. Water and/or sewage may back up into the basement through floor drains, unsecured clean-out caps on the sewer lateral piping system in the basement, or other plumbing fixtures that are below ground level. It mainly occurs in areas where surface water and sanitary wastewater share common piping systems.

Read more: http://www.bojack.org/#ixzz0dNbV2a1g

Nah they'll be far gone when that sh__ hits the fan. Kinda like Opie Sten (oops another sycophantic term) who bailed after the failure of sowhat district (oops another sycophantic term-what WOULD I do w/o Garrett to show me my place.

It's a very good deal for the city. People don't realize the benefits Portland will reap. Unlike the NBA, MLS is likely to hold All-Star games, championship games and events like their draft here. The completed stadium will also be an excellent place for tourning European sides to play. With luck and good support (and a grass field), Portland could even be the site of some preliminary World Cup matches.

And for those taking shots at Merritt Paulson: How many owners do you think would come into town and assume debt service payments created by his predessors? The answer is somewhere between "damn few" and "none."

what WOULD I do w/o Garrett to show me my place.

I don't know what you'd do without me to show you your place and frankly I wasn't showing you your place. A better question for you might be something like: why do you refuse to think for yourself and just repeat curmudgeonly ad hominem attacks on elected city officials, public employees, transportation activists, Tri-Met, or a guy that's trying to do something pretty cool for Portland from a guy who bans "comments that make ad hominem remarks about other commenters, or particularly about me?" You're doing nothing but repeating ad hominem attacks from a guy with an awfully thin skin who clearly can't handle criticism and simply attacks people who disagree with him.

Kurt Chapman:

Public money for stadia of any sort hardly ever offer a return on investment. The PGE Park is in that group. A few hundred construction jobs for a temporary time and then low paying (city subsidized) concession and maintenance jobs will be there. Those jobs were already there with the Beavers.

Yeow! Having lived across the street from PacBel Park, before and after, I can tell you there are major examples where it has.

1. The bonds are being issues for $11.5 million, but supporters like to leave out that there are interest payments to be made. These bonds are also high-interest zero-coupon bonds. Reports back in July stated that the interest yield rate is 9% (extraordinarily high) and that the total yield will be over $40 million. Additionally, the city was having trouble finding buyers for these bonds because of the risk involved, so Merritt Paulson has set up friends to buy them. That appears to be a conflict of interest to me, as his friends will now profit handsomely at the expense of the city.

2. Merritt Paulson is pre-paying 18 years worth of stadium operator license fees, commonly referred to as "rent". The city will not receive any "rent" from 2017 to 2034. The city used a very generous estimation of future inflation rather than using the standard trend of inflation. That has undervalued the value of this future rent, thus giving Paulson about a $6 million break. The pre-paid rent is also essentially a loan from Paulson to the city.

3. Although the city owns the stadium, they yielded the naming rights money to the operator when the deal with PFE was struck 10 years ago. This deal will expire after this season, but the stadium operator will continue to receive the naming rights money. The current deal is for $10 million over 10 years, but Paulson is on record with his belief that he will be able to get much more than that in a new deal.

4. The city continues to subsidize stadium workers because Merritt Paulson refuses to pay his workers a fair wage on his own.

5. We are losing 72 Beavers game dates which means we will also lose all those employment opportunities.

6. We also will lose the Spectator Facilities Fund revenue generated by those games. Some supporters of this deal contend that the potential revenue generated by an MLS team will overshadow what the Beavers generated. However, this ignores that MLS and the Beavers combined would bring in maximum revenue. The sharing option, which has existed since the 2001 season as well as during the NASL years, was never pursued. I believe this is a major negotiating failure on the part of our government.

7. Supporters like to tout the private contributions of the Paulsons in this deal. The reality is that the deal has been presented to the public in a very misleading way. When you factor in the amount of "rent" they are saving because of the pre-paid scenario, and factor in the naming rights money, you will see that their "private" contribution is actually covered by the city and then some. They are actually making money on this deal before they even open the gates.

8. Merritt Paulson managed to secure a no-bid contract for the construction firm of his choosing. Mayor Adams is touting this deal as a way to create construction jobs for Portlanders, but the firm Paulson has chosen is Turner Construction of New York. Paulson is also from New York. I have not seen any guarantees that local workers must be hired. I am sure that if Paulson had to follow the same rules as everyone else, a local firm that would keep our cities money in town would have won the bid.

Not a Good Deal:

1. The city continues to subsidize stadium workers because Merritt Paulson refuses to pay his workers a fair wage on his own.

Bob T:

Well, he doesn't have to anymore than Glickman and PFE had to. But this is of course an example of how we are subsidizing this multi-millionaire while supporters of these deals deny any such subsidies exist.

Not a Good Deal:

1. We are losing 72 Beavers game dates which means we will also lose all those employment opportunities.

Bob T:

Yup. Many supporters mention the extra economic activity that goes on in the vicinity of the stadium, and despite the fact that I never put much stock in this as a reason to subsidize anyone to keep a team there, the loss of those events will still have an effect and have yet to be explained away by those who point to the benefits of events for the vicinity. I doubt that the suggested replacement events will equal 71 or 72 baseball games.

Bob Tiernan Portland

t. a. barnhart:

Bob T, if you sign the petition because of policy issues - shame on you. that's exactly the wrong reason. it's a major reason CA is such a mess: a recall over issues.

Bob T:

I will be signing the petition, and voting for the recall, for the same reasons Jason Wurster has outlined numerous times. This sports corporate welfare sleaze is a bonus reason. I don't mind taking lumps on issues, by the way, but when they take my money to give to multi-millionaires I do find that reason enough for removal. What really disappoints me is that this city, allegedly overloaded with so-called progressives who always claim they are opposed to corporate welfare, barely make a peep over these deals when they happen.

Bob Tiernan Portland

"It's a very good deal for the city."

Not as good as it it is for Steve Janik who gets to rep both sides.

"MLS is likely to hold All-Star games" Not if there is a lockout: http://soccer.fanhouse.com/2010/01/06/labor-war-of-words-begins/

"How many owners do you think would come into town and assume debt service payments created by his predessors? The answer is somewhere between "damn few" and "none.""

Including MP - CoP is still stuck with the $5M they owe from the last EPIC FAIL on PGE Park. MP takes no responsibility for that.

Watch football and other sport streams online, and pay nothing for cable! Digital rights are a scam. Don't be a sucker and pay for your viewing! Only $5/week or $20 for three months. Unlimited viewing of all sports channels!!! http://www.free-football.tv/

<h2>We also have WWF!!!</h2>