This bill fails on so many points that were supposedly major progressive "gotta haves" that I find it interesting that BO would cheer passage.

Two points alone:

Pre-ex exclusions for adults do not kick in until 2014. What about those mandated to purchase coverage?

The 40% Cadillac tax will disproportionately hit public employee unions.

Well, that's thrilling. With this out of the way, do you suppose next year they'll take up actual health care reform like they promised?

What a disgusting process and display. No one can call this healthcare reform.

Kurt Chapman commented: Pre-ex exclusions for adults do not kick in until 2014. What about those mandated to purchase coverage?

Hell Kurt, almost NOTHING kicks in until 2014, except the inevitable tax increases to fund this piece of legislative offal. That's the only way they could claim the 10 year cost of the bill would be 'revenue-neutral' (i.e., 10 years of funding for ~6 years of benefits)

and The 40% Cadillac tax will disproportionately hit public employee unions.

That's because the people who have 'Cadillac' health plans are disproportionately members of public employee unions. Wah!

Welcome to the other side of the argument that 'income tax cuts' disproportionately benefit 'the wealthy': because 'the wealthy' pay a disproportionate share of the income taxes.

The only possible good thing that could come from the Senate Finance Committee health care package will be if final passage ignites and inflames the working classes against the elite corporate interests who pulled the strings to cause the Democratic majority party to commit this travesty.

If I were advising a Dem incumbent in the '10 or '12 election cycles, I would urge them to get the word out that they didn't want to vote for this bill, but that they were forced to do so by their corporate masters who control campaign funding, and that the Republicans control the corporate masters, so really this bill is the fault of the Republicans. It might sell with the right spin.

Agreed. This sucks large green gangrenous donkey phallus.

Now, many progressives have said, since long before the last election, that Pelosi and Reid are the party leadership because they are the only likely candidates that would offer this up with a straight face. A year ago, we asked why we should give Obama time, given that the party was so obviously defrauding us.

Now, would someone care to factor those things into the present and answer 1) why we should continue to work with Dems to get anything accomplished, 2) is Howard Dean going to do more than talk, 3) many of us have considered never voting Dem again, so, one more time, why shouldn't we take that tack?

Anymore, when a Dem says something right it is being said by someone with no ability to do anything about it, and is just political theatre. Why should we not take the hard core position, that all Dems are just as bad as the Repugnants, even if they are Dennis or Dean. If they're really better, they can leave the party. Their words mean nothing.

"Hope and change. Yeah people will buy that!"

Really need Harry K to add, "present"! But, then, being link spammer friendly is more important than progressive politics. Really tired of these stupid sidebar ads. To pay for what? You do no management. Dems don't need Viagra anyway. They've no balls.

First it's important to note that the NW Senator delegation in the group of Senators actually to blame for this ripoff of the American people. Led by Ron Wyden, a person who provides the canonical example of a self-serving olitician, Cantwell, Murray, and Merkley (yes, true to his Oregon history, "silent Jeff" who never seems to be around to be stand up and speak out as a leader when doing the right thing could have negative repercussions for his career) have been the stalking horses for the insurance industry: While these stalking horse Democrats said they "supported" a public option, they did nothing to actually support it. They were content all along to pass a mandate to enrich the insurance industry because they are with that sold-out core of the Democratic party who actually owe their personal careers to their support of corporate America against the people.

We saw Wasserman-Schultz hit moral rock bottom on MSNBC last week when Ratigan called her out. In that three minute and change clip, she actually had about half of it to speak unchallenged. She used that time to spout empty talking points, and when challenged about the reality of the bill, she whined the questions was unfair because she wasn't an expert in the market. Yet in the next breath she claimed she and the Democratic majorities in both chambers somehow were geniuses who were rebuilding the market. You can't childishly whine you're not an expert in one breath and expect to not be deservedly ridiculed and humiliated as she was when you claim in the next breath politicians like you are such top experts you are going to entirely re-make the market system.

Significantly, on Saturday, in the wake of the Wasserman-Schultz debacle, and several similar events, Kerry and several other big name "Democrats" out to enrich the private insurance industry launched bullying attacks in which they obscenely accuse those good Democrats who have in fact been the force for good in making health care reform an issue at all. These bullies had the arrogance and audacity as only immoral bully politicians do, to accuse those good and true Democrats as not caring about the uninsured and to hypocritically claim they the politicians enriching the private health insurance industry with this bill are the (only) people who care. Even more significantly most of the claims about the supposed benefits of the bill they are using to "support" their morally bankrupt attack far overstate what actually is in the Senate bill.

This health care reform mattered because the battle really was whether the people who call themselves Democrats were just stealing that label to get elected in Oregon and across the country. This was about whether those people were going to stand up for the people against corporate America as true Democrats do. What we have seen is that they are cynical, self-serving, incompetent, arrogant, hypocrites and frauds who are against the people.

The bottom line truth is that the Administration and the Democrats have proven they have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. So they are now individually and personally responsible for the thousands of innocent lives that will now be lost or diminished due to illness, and that wouldn't be lost or diminished if we had a serious publicly-owned national health insurance plan that would deliver more health care to thousands more people than the corrupt, overpriced, private health insurance based system they are now creating.

This was on the Dudley thread; it fits better here, so I've reposted.

Posted by: Jack Roberts | Dec 21, 2009 7:28:12 AM

Jeff, I agree that health care will be will be an issue in the governor's race, I'm just not sure it will be framed as "Did you support the bill Congress passed (or didn't pass)?"

Boy, you're going to pull 3rd party voters with that one! Dems loved "did you vote for the Patriot Act" so much, they want another such debacle. That' the Pelosi Strategy for helping pols be completely unaccountable. If you pass only crap leg, then a pol can say they voted for it, or didn't and argue the same point! Perfect dithering. "Yes, I support it, that's why I didn't vote for the bill". Or "that's why I did vote for the bill". Ditto lack of support. You can spin it any direction. Anyone that says that Nancy Pelosi is not doing her job should really consider that! She don't work for you. She's working her butt off in the service of her masters.

For the record, your party voted for corporate interests in both cases, the two biggest cases for doing something for constituents that will ever cross the dias. You were warned a year ago that bidness as usual would be your end.

So long.

I ask now, for the 7th time in 3 weeks, were we lucky, psychic or know something that you don't (or won't act on)? It's one of the above. Which is it? No, you're going to go right back to business as usual. Explain again how those that said, in October of 2008, not to get hopes up, that one wouldn't have a walking Delaware Corporation as VP if one wasn't going to give corporate interests exactly what they want/bought, were stupid trolls.

Of course you'll win a few more. The Democratic Party of America has done so much to build up right wing talk radio, that you'll be able to play the "you can't vote for them card" a few more cycles. But, as sure as polar bears, you're headed out.

As per usual the rock throwers are out in full force on this site. Those who were pushing a PO (that amounted to next to nothing which only a 9% of the citizenry could choose) can try again next year through a budget reconciliation process. I congratulate Senators Reid, Schumer, Rockefeller, Kerry, and our own Wyden and Merkley. Considering the actual policy/ideological make-up of the Senate, the filibuster system, the organized and well funded opposition, and the utter negligence of the media in fact checking, we have a good start on a new health insurance system.

I congratulate Sen.Wyden in that a version of his "choice" amendment will be made law, giving individuals a choice.

And I congratulate those legislators who have shown a steadfast commitment to governance despite the dishonest debate and propaganda from both the right and the left wing. A stinging criticism is due for the nihilistic bomb throwers on the left who chose to destroy everything out of spite having been denied their own illusory form of ideological triumph. The left and right wing extremes have proven themselves incapable of rationality and pragmatism, even for the higher purpose of common humanity and decency for those many who are without basic health care coverage.

Bill R: other than directly giving hundreds of billions of dollars to private insurance companies, what exactly do you like about this bill? What about it do you think rises to the description of, "a good start on a new health insurance system"?

I want a bill, and I want a bill this session. But I happen to agree with Gov. Dean: start over with a slimmed down reconcilliation bill to address REFORM. Obama and Reid took actual REFORM off the table before it had a chance.

There are enough Dems in both Houses to take the time and effort to do it right. But calling this billion dollar giveaway REFORM doesn't pass the smell test.

Senate Democrats should be embarrassed.

Posted by: Bill R. | Dec 21, 2009 9:10:06 AM

As per usual the rock throwers are out in full force on this site.

They are ingrates. Stupid ingrates. Many claim to canvas for Dems. Most rock throwers are liars. Either way, we don't need their help. This bill proves that we are completely in charge, and, BTW, is this the greatest administration since FDR or what!!!

This is the problem with American politics. Two people on this whole thread "get it". Yet we all have the same vote. All those ignoramuses is why we can't get anywhere. Not Sean, not Rush, it's the stupid "progressives" that don't know how to go along to get along that are 100% of the problem.

I mean, how stupid do you have to be, after the Afghan build up, to not know that we are running the show, FINALLY, and we will do what we want to, even if you are incapable of "getting it". I strongly suggest everyone that has posted negative sentiments repent and write your rep a "thank you" letter. You have no shame!

Full disclosure: This leg doesn't affect Bill R's or my "Cadillac" plan. If you have enough income, you can write all the taxes off. It only costs if you were those UIDs (Uninsureds in Distress). Let's face it. We are a great nation to even THINK about them. Who else would? More thank-you notes due, but will we ever see it? Of course not. Our reward is in the next life. BTW, maybe thank your local Catholic diocese too. The final version of this is almost identical to what they asked for, and little like what the rock throwers demanded. Without the smooth professionalism of the Catholic Church, this bill would not be so well crafted.

BTW, I don't see rock thowers, but very rarely, on sites that manage the spam and banned posters. Once you allow a banned poster to post on every topic, you are sending a hand written invite to the rock throwers.

As per usual the rock throwers are out in full force on this site. Those who were pushing a PO (that amounted to next to nothing which only a 9% of the citizenry could choose)

As per usual the intellectually dishonest defenders of this cynical, self-serving ripoff of the American public like Bill R, are out misrepresenting reality.

Right from the outset he misrepresents what A public option, ie. national health insurance plane wouldbe, by citing as THE public option a hypothetical, designed to fail plan, complete with made up statistics. And then with a long spiteful, psychotic argument (as in divorced from reality) about how the very "Democrats" in Congress that are picking the pockets of the American public on behalf of the powerful they actually represent are somehow going to do exactly the opposite next.

What Bill R tries to spin his way out of is the truth: The "Democratic" majority is solely responsible for this affront to everything good and true Democrats stand for. They actually are psychological abusers who try to convince the American public they are abusing we have to stick with them because, supposedly, they are the only ones in the whole (political) world who actually care about us. The good and true Democratic grassroots need to recognize these people are self-centered abusers and we ar suffering from a national Stockholm Syndrome in which we have been abused into sympathizing and defending our abusers.

People need to find tape of the Saturday's Meet the Press and listen carefully to what Tavis Smiley had to say about this "Democratic" leadership on both ends of PA Avenue.

You're disgusting Bill R.

On a meta-level, I congratulate Cantwell for introducing the MS shrink wrap model of consumer rights, extended by Real, into American politics! That's right, this was a lot more than "health care". This woman might actually get legislation barring Linux use in gov, by the end of the session.

I only trust software engineers, in life. No one else has a clue.

I think the Dems did a fine job (for once). Rock throwers are what you get when you lead. Have to accept my pseudonym for expectations if you will lead.

• Paul Cox

By the way, what Smiley does on MSNBC is to rebut the false argument about incrementalism enablers like Bill R. propagandizes about here.

What matters is you fall in line with this or you are a criminal. My father that hates doctors and has vowed to die of a minor infection, rather than get treatment, is not just a middle aged eccentric, now. If he continues as is, he will be branded a criminal and dealt with by the state. We discussed this, and, hard though it was, I recommended suicide to him, if he feels so strongly about it. Die free or live as a slave is not a new choice.

Animals on the farm don't get a choice as to veterinary care. The farmer has an agenda, the farmer pays and the farmer decides what is good health care, when they need it, and how much they get. That is how domestication works. A little late now, since 99% of you support almost ever domesticating activity society engages in, to complain.

"People need to find tape of the Saturday's Meet the Press and listen carefully to what Tavis Smiley had to say about this "Democratic" leadership on both ends of PA Avenue."

We would all do well to consider the points made by Tavis Smiley. Same goes for the speech made by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI). It is a lesson not only on health care but also on how repugnant and corrupt party politics have become.

Shed your (Democratic and Republican) party blinders and think of the nation. America needs your independent thinking.

As for the disagreement over the senate bill that will be followed by disagreement over the senate-house compromise, this is what happens when the process and the product are flawed. You please some (those who benefit) and offend others (those who don't benefit and everyone who believes a health plan should take care of all the people).

One question; if the R's had passed anything at 1 am only to serve an artificial & unnecessary 'deadline', with a partisan vote, wouldn't you people be "throwing rocks"?

You bet you would!

Have the oligarchs in the Democratic Party considered a possible blowback from this bill. It is sufficiently flawed to offend millions of people. If the defects of the bill become more prominent than its few virtues, as will be likely, and it is regarded as a "Democratic Party" bill, then how will that affect people's voting in 2010 and 2012?

You are to be benefited by going to Firedoglake and scroll down to read Jane Hamsher's ten reasons to oppose the so- called health care reform. Obama is all hat and no cattle.

Then, listen to the so-called Progressives advocate pragmatism on KPOJ. God! They are pathetic. They do not know what it means. For the people who want to recall Sam Adams to support Obama after he has shafted the American People (with lots of lube) such that we can not perform bodily functions is truly the bookmark for the end of progressive creditability.

The designed to fail health care reform is now complete.

Next on the agenda. Bomb Iran.

What always gets me about Kari's writing is the quality of the spin. He's so eager to brag about the party that he plays fast and loose with the truth. He's more obvious than a USC football player driving an SUV to practice. "Health care: It's All Over But the Voting." Umm, no Kari, the bill has to be reconciled with the House version and then voted on next year. Even if it passes it won't be over. We'll just be inundated by a million Kari's fanning out to sell the public this insurance company/Big Pharma bonanza as a win for Joe Sixpack. See, it's never about reality. It's about marketing. And I don't trust people who are so eager to hump the party line, especially when the fat cats got what they wanted with this bill, and ordinary citizens didn't. I was thinking back to last year this time as millions of Americans were gearing up to celebrate the arrival of the Messiah. Wow, they sure don't talk about President Obama like that anymore.

I am wondering how the Federal Government has the authority to force us to do business with insurance companies? People say its like car insurance, but it is not. A person can choose not to drive a car, but this is a compliance law placed on your very life. Not only that, its not a legal tax, which would be Constitutional under current law, it is a mandate to do business with private companies or face government penalties. Does not sound very progressive to me. Sounds very fascist if you want my opinion.

A tidy little book Toxic Sludge is Good For You explains what is wrong with this picture. Manufacturing consent and shaping perceptions. Unfortunately, it is Kari's bible. And it is cursing this democracy.

It looks like the Democratic Party just voted in the world's biggest transfer of wealth from taxpayers to Big Insurance and Big Pharma.

Have fun running on those accomplishments. See you in 2010!

Bill Bodden wrote: ... this is what happens when the process and the product are flawed. You please some (those who benefit) and offend others (those who don't benefit and everyone who believes a health plan should take care of all the people).

But you forgot to mention all the people who don't want government involved in health care issues at all. I know those are not the people this site focuses on, but they are out there. In the end this bill pleases those who benefit, and offends everyone else.

Sadly, Republicans were on the ropes just a few short months ago, but they've deployed their secret weapon with great success: The Democrats.

I was going to post this on Carla's latest bout of triumphalism, the F-U Thread, but it seemed as apt here:

Posted by: Carla Axtman | Dec 19, 2009 12:31:21 PM

but when progressives do the same yelling at the similar hackery here, it's being a troll?

It's got to be tough to type with that chip weighing so heavily on your shoulder.

I can't see the difference between that and they way whichever party is in power moans constantly about how the other party won't vote for cloture. "All we're asking for is an up and down vote". Is that Tom DeLay, or Harry Reid? Is that Kari mentioning it today, or was that Rush last year?

Oh, for the days when they were all bums, and we could fantasize that it was in our power to throw them out. But not all bums are grifters. That is where bums would be much better Washington pols.

Posted by: Garage Wine | Dec 21, 2009 11:49:36 AM

It looks like the Democratic Party just voted in the world's biggest transfer of wealth from taxpayers to Big Insurance and Big Pharma.

Well, after banks, credit institutions and the military, guess who's next on the donor's list? Want to know what gets addressed next? Read further down. You on the list? Don't expect to ever get representation.

If you want to get really worked up, go to the BO archives and read what regulars said about Obama care when he was running. Look at the blatant solicitations for $$$ based on premises that progressives stated at the time were untrue. They were publicly called liars and worse. This is just fraud. Pure and simple. Guess Carla's post about Enron was another case of a chip on the shoulder, failing to get beyond the way we were blatantly defrauded that time. Domestication is learning to take it up the butt and like it!

Found this interesting fact of information about the leader of the free world. If you didn’t know Pres. Obamas Approval Index has had the fastest drop, for any president since polling numbers began or since WWII. Hmmm, could it be that he lied to a lot of people?

Jiang Lee said, "Animals on the farm don't get a choice as to veterinary care. The farmer has an agenda, the farmer pays and the farmer decides what is good health care, when they need it, and how much they get. That is how domestication works."

Just wanted to see it printed again.

While I am as horrified as the other progressives here are, I am heartened by the outcry.

Those of you who like this "reform" deserve it.

Let the higher-taxed, government-controlled, debt-building reform begin!

"Sadly, Republicans were on the ropes just a few short months ago, but they've deployed their secret weapon with great success: The Democrats."

If the American people wake up some day and realize what a sorry health care reform plan they have had foisted on them, they will most likely give the Democrats the credit/blame for the mess. If, about the same time, AfPak, which all recognize as Obama's war, looks like being the catastrophe and quagmire it has the potential to be, then "hasta la vista" to the Democratic majority in Congress in 2010 and "adios" to Obama in 2012.

Unfortunately, the exiting Democrats will be replaced by equally cretinous Republicans.

Passage of this bill is like marrying the wrong person.

And how can you so-called "progressives" be proud of anything that has come out of the most behind-closed-door Congress in my memory? (Early 70's, if you are wondering.)

Where is the outrage at the secrecy? At the fact that no review of bills are encouraged or even permitted?

Oh that's right. Outrage is selective and used only when it advances the Democratic Party.

Be proud you Democrats. You own this. The country doesn't want it and most people voted for Obama for economic reasons and he has fiddled with health care while the country’s economy burned, claiming everything is GW Bush's fault. Well how is he going to blame this Democratic health care fascism and mandates on George Bush?

You can fool the country for a little while, but now Hell is coming for breakfast.

Hell is coming for breakfast?

I've got my fav'rit marshmallow stick right here.

Since our culture is all about robotic black/white splitting and is tinged with an absolute eschewing of fragile fine points, we will see this go on and on and on. We won't get to see the healthy splintering and chaos that shaking up the monolithic Janus Party System b/c we haven't the taste for the necessary fracas. yes, the shitstorm handed over by Bush and his stenchy friends will stick to Obama too.

I heave a sigh and I do not feel hopeful nor creative any more.

... probably should be "absolute eschew"

Posted by: its all over but the divorce | Dec 21, 2009 5:25:25 PM

Passage of this bill is like marrying the wrong person.

It's like marrying your sister and then never having sex because she's your sister.

Quite nice, rw, "Janus Party System".

You can fool the country for a little while, but now Hell is coming for breakfast.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells, like...victory" - Harry Reid

How the pros got their 60 votes certainly demonstrated the true integrity of a democratic congress – bribery, kickbacks for votes, perks for votes, buying votes with special treatment for some states whereby they do not have to follow the same agenda, how the influential lobbyists got what they wanted – a regular buy a vote program. Why not just have an auction and the highest bidder takes all? Maybe the rest of us plain old commoners who are getting suckered should live our lives in exactly the same manner, at least when we are expected to pay taxes and dealing the government and government regulations. After all, it is congress that is setting the standard.

As usual, I liked the way the Dutch do it. If we were Dutch, you could easily imagine Congress by replacing all the current representatives with their interns and junior staffers. Not a bad idea, that!

Where people always miss the point with the Dutch is thinking that they're ultra liberal. They're very conservative, and their motivation for doing politics that way is so that business men, former politicians, know the ins and outs of the system and can play the system more effectively, very much like our court system.

health care is one of the issue we all need to think about as due to our busy schedule we don't get time for that.

health care is one of the issue we all need to think about as due to our busy schedule we don't get time for that.

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