Welcome to the Streets, Welcome to the Conversation
Jeff Alworth
I attended my first march on Portland streets in about 1987. The precise reason for this demonstration now eludes me, but it was during my freshman year of college. For a college student during the Reagan administration, this was not a remarkable act. Over the years, I've attended dozens more. Some were to express support, some to register dissent.
During the Bush years (Bush II, long after his father had dubbed the city "Little Beirut" for its protesters) things were especially tense. Not everyone liked people protesting wars or what looked like illegal prosecutions. Even the press was down on this kind of public expression, of this engagement in the national discourse. But still, these rallies showed that there were diverse views present in the community. They provided the opportunity for the public to discuss issues central to our city, state, and country.
So it is with a strange feeling of solidarity that I regard the police, who took to the streets yesterday. Leaving aside the question of their cause (which, even with many benefits of many doubts, looks dubious), that they have decided to appeal to the public through a public rally is a heartening sight. We all have the right to express our views publicly. Even more: we have the responsibility, as members of a larger community, to have these discussions. It's not the sign of dangerous deviance, it's the sign of healthy democracy. The police have made their case. We know where they stand. So often it's the cops watching us protest; now we have seen them protest. Let the discussion continue.
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PHOTO: Willamette Week
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Nov 25, '09
Wasn't there a group of black clergy protesting the police today?
Nov 25, '09
I am a bit older. I can recall the good old days of the Portland police when they (allegedly) beat up suspects in the basement of the police station. I kind of miss former Police Commissioner Frank Ivancie. Those were the good old days. No need for fancy pants demonstrations - they just got the job done at the station.
Nov 25, '09
Oddly, I saw a "comment image" targeting today's demonstration. It was regarding Oregon cops protesting about their sorely-abridged rights regarding censure of two officers who laid dead vermin at the doorsteps of people of color.....
Talk about your differing points of view! :)... this is good exercise.
Nov 25, '09
Excellent.
Nov 25, '09
Just a TEA protest under color.
Wonderful pollyanaitis, Jeff, but I really don't think they get it any more than TEA protesters do. Kind of like when your 4 year old puts on adult fancy dress. It's obvious what they're trying to do, but is slightly cute, at best.
Hope local protesters are taking notes on the areas were they get byes. Worth being able to cite in the future.
Nov 25, '09
ZaraDearYouStra: what is a "byes"? SOrry - ignorant.
Nov 25, '09
I meant areas of enforcement that are being overlooked. When green protesters are being read the riot act, it would be nice to be able to cite differential behavior from how the cops were treated compared to other protesters.
Nov 25, '09
Oh, duh. BIAS.
Nov 25, '09
... and by that, Z, I meant, "why'd I not figger it out?" Parrot companionably eating peppermint icecream and scrubbing his messy beak on my shoulder. Mmmm. Holidays.
8:30 a.m.
Nov 26, '09
rw, I think "byes" (not "bias"), as in "getting a bye". A leniency or a "pass".
What I'm curious about is that at every other mass of several hundred marchers, there's be fair number of cops there to ensure that the marchers were kept in line. Didn't see any at the police rally.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
10:03 a.m.
Nov 26, '09
Re: "not getting it"
Z, there's nothing "to get." in a healthy democracy, people speak their minds. There's no right way to protest or, god forbid, right kind of speech. Tea partiers are letting us know what they think. To dismiss them as stooges unaware of their own opinions is arrogant and inaccurate. And, as someone who disagrees, I much prefer that this viewpoint enter the public discourse where we can see it, rather than festering in dark corners, fed only by the energy of fellow-travelers.
Nov 26, '09
Jeff - maybe Z is seeing this as men who are using their official, tax-paid status in the streets for protest that is, ultimately, professional. This is NOT on the level of Ghandi and all the attorneys marching in the streets of South Africa.
I think we have an uneasy relatioship with 1. professional protest; 2. the changing role of our professional military and our police who are an unrecognized paid militia in some instances; 3. the blurred lines between when a professional can speak for themselves en masse, or if that is a professional class rising up.
The cops have their union, they already HAVE a process. But they have elected to take to the process usually only left for those in the populace who feel desperately unheeded.
I agree with Jeff, good to get to see it instead of all of it being secret and worked out... but there is an uneasy question viz the propriety of cops walking the streets en masse in a recognizably professional class identity garb. We need to look at it.
Suspecting there will be more of this, and, as the clear line between SERVANT of the nation (military) and SERVANTS of the people/peace (police force) is eroded and the attitudes of entitlement continue to carve into the ethos that keeps our forces strong and under command... this is what one might fear in any harbinger activities.
Paranoid thoughts for a Thanksgiving, gentlemen! Switch to a cheerier topic!
Nov 26, '09
Humphries is a pawn in all of this. The police union is using him as a wedge in order to continue petty grievances against the Chief, the COmmissioner and the City of Portland.
There is no need for protest on the part of the police union because their union brother has not been harmed in any way. He was involved in a controversial incident. He is on paid administrative leave pending the completion of an investigation. he has not been fired like the TRI-MET operator was after a cursory investigation.
12:23 p.m.
Nov 26, '09
Jeff - maybe Z is seeing this as men who are using their official, tax-paid status in the streets for protest that is, ultimately, professional. This is NOT on the level of Ghandi and all the attorneys marching in the streets of South Africa.
So what? I've demonstrated in union marches. That's professional. Hell, I'm in a taxpayer-supported union. If ever we strike, you better believe we'll take our message to the streets.
I don't buy for a second that the only good protest is one where longhairs sing "Give Peace a Chance" (though those are mainly the ones I attend). Speech is good. Public speech is better.
Nov 26, '09
No, Jeff is right. I am saying that TEA protesters are mindless zombies, to which he takes exception, as is his prerogative.
But, if you want to critique the semiotics, rw is spot on.
At least I'm a good scientist and delighted to be proven wrong.
Nov 27, '09
I have no problem with the PPD union holding this "protest" but I do do have some questions regarding permits. In the Big O story it was quoted that they only had a permit to walk on the sidewalk. That's all fine and dandy but according to the Sidewalk application form: 1. Fees – Fees for events are to be paid at least 30 days prior to the event. Although there is no fee required for sidewalk use for an event of this size, (Large Sidewalk: At least 200 people; held on sidewalk; obey all traffic regulations; minimal city support required), you still have to get the permit well in advance of the event. Special Events (street and sidewalk uses) Portland On Line
This took place what, 3 or 4days after the incident? How did they get a permit so fast? They also had a PA at City Hall. Did they have a Noise Variance? From the Noise Variance application:
The "rally" also stopped at Chapman Square before moving to City Hall. Did they have a permit from Parks and Recreation? Those are carved in stone and P&R are real sticklers if you want to use a park.
At the City Hall gathering did the crowd spill over across the street to Terry Schrunk Plaza? And if so did the crowd end up on the grass. You need a permit from the GSA to use Terry Schrunk Plaza, its federal property.
I have applied for permits in the past, always within the time lines required on the applications. Can I now get some kind of special deal to accelerate the process?
Just some thoughts from a "Community Organizer".
Nov 27, '09
Well spotted BOHICA! That's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking about when I was talking about watching for byes.
Nov 27, '09
I suppose I could go downtown and check the records.
Nov 27, '09
Where were the horse-mounted officers just happening to be passing through the ranks of marchers at this police association demo? If they are to be welcomed into the solidarity with other demonstrators, at least they should be subjected to the same tactics.
Nov 27, '09
My goodness Jeff: you are certainly angry about this one.
7:27 p.m.
Nov 27, '09
Bohica, your points are definitely well-taken.
RW, angry?
Nov 27, '09
You just sound like you are pissed when someone mentions that maybe that boundary line between professional police marching on the streets might have some discussion attached to it... that is NOT the same as your union marching. And you sounded a tad angry that anyone would dare to simply raise the discussion or even mention that SOME may be uncomfortable with that line and having to check how they feel about it.... there are more views than just yours, and not everyone starts out as perfectly enlightened as you. People have to go thru a process sometimes.
This could be one such.
I just felt a kind of angry undertone there.... sorry if I was mistaken. You may also not be utterly aware of it. The police union may not equate perfectly to yours. But taht union brother sentiment is one that is taught strongly and is sorely needed.
9:12 p.m.
Nov 27, '09
I think Jeff is doing us a huge favor by reminding us of the big picture viz freedom of speech and the role of dissent in a democracy. I don't sense any anger behind it.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself" - Thomas Paine
Nov 27, '09
Alkie: yes, I can see that. It appears that it is tricky to entertain free speech for all, even when you are advocating... free speech for all! :)
Nov 27, '09
oops! Er! Kevin. Ack. Can't even blame it on tryptophan - that was yesterday.
Nov 27, '09
Jeff, BOHICA is all caps, just as FUBAR and SNAFU are. Old military acronyms. I chose it after the 2004 election, seemed appropriate.
Bend Over Here It Comes Again
10:35 a.m.
Nov 28, '09
bohica: "say it <s>soft</s>in lower case and it's almost like praying..."
Nov 28, '09
Posted by: rw | Nov 27, 2009 9:18:38 PM
Alkie: yes, I can see that. It appears that it is tricky to entertain free speech for all, even when you are advocating...
freePC speech for all! :)(Cheese, wine, lhassies and magic mushrooms are all bigger tryptophan sources than turkey! One can argue that the sleepy bloated feeling is more from leaving the food out all day than tryptophan!)
The sentiment seems easy to read. Check any back post. It's easier for the management to identify with the police than Z. Don't want to stuff words in his/her mouth, but, if the point was to show where the Dems really stand, relative to progressives, I think s(he) has succeeded!
Nov 28, '09
I was wondering about one point, though. If one were really general in talking about protests in the last 50 years, it seems that conservative protests are almost always to stop something or make sure something doesn't change, whereas liberal protests involve more of a nuanced approach.
Liberals say "march for", "protest for", whereas conservatives are more likely to say "against". Is the recommendation being advanced here that they be regarded equally? When does a protest become a pout?
I always like the Dutch man on the street's reaction to protests. They inevitably simply go up to a random protester and ask, "Wat is de bedoeling van dit actie"? I've done that with TEA protesters and anti-war protesters. Even when they seem to be doing largely similar things, the language is still "do/change/establish" v "stop/prevent/rollback".
So, my reactions stem largely from regarding this as the PPB being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century by some decent oversight, and they're having a right good pout. BTW, I think that's good civic behavior as well. I just don't call everything that marches down the street with a placard a protest. Funerals look very similar. Let them mourn the loss of their traditional way of life. It's part of growth
I have to wonder... If at the next anti-war protest, someone says to one of the cops, "hey, I saw you when you all took to the streets, have some sympathy", will the cop say, "that was different"? Are we giving them more credit than they will give themselves? Time will tell.
Posted by: rw | Nov 27, 2009 9:18:38 PM
Alkie: yes, I can see that. It appears that it is tricky to entertain free speech for all, even when you are advocating...
freePC speech for all! :)To imagine a language is to imagine a form of life. Dems use PC language strictures to preclude the world models of progressives. Weltgestalten sein leben, I say (and I don't even speak German, but, then, weltgestalten isn't a word). PC speech is a gun held at the head, a virtual kick in the teeth, linguistic identification papers. As I'm toothless and utterly without documentation, the bile flows. More predictable than galling.
Nov 28, '09
I did not say PC speech.
Nov 28, '09
Indeed. I was trying to underscore your point as well, my take being that PC is essential, free is a nice to have.
Nov 28, '09
Heh. Use brackets next time Zarey. They seem to indicate one's own "contribution" to the thought-stream and FEW people ever use them correctly!
;)....
bex
Nov 28, '09
... and you said what I'm shying away from saying, since I feel too fragile for a pissing match today.
Nov 28, '09
And: hang on there, Zarey, you say you are toofless? There goes my sparkling mental image of you. Sigh.
Nov 29, '09
How is this any different than any other group of government bureaucrats protesting?
How is it any different than teacher's going on strike and taking to the picket lines? (See my 4th wall of text AKA paragraph to the online illiterate).
Some random joe schmoe gets abused and both sides exercise their rights in protesting = no harm done.
Teacher going on strike >>> Children being home >>> Parents having to take time off of work or pay someone to supervise them = Damage to the economy because the employers and/or individual parents end up having to foot the bill in spending less time at work or forking out of pocket money for daycare just so that teacher's can exercise their Constitutional right of free speech and freedom of assembly.
This could be much worse than the healthy debate it is.
Dec 1, '09
Sorry, rw. I rather like the early, first millenium concept of attribution. If you say something that you know the author would really agree with, you just sign their name to it!
Dec 1, '09
very porno.
Dec 1, '09
Hey, leave the obscenity to Kar-lock, "porno"!