Yah Steve, I noticed. I'm sorry that I felt a moment of cynical jaundice. They see the sea change, they get it when it's no longer hot....

I worked there briefly, and the corniness of some of their culture (reading the PlayBook and buying it) was off-putting. I was there when Deloitte Touche scalped them from the inside on a project... soon after D-T did the same thing and nearly destroyed the Soloflex guys... Anyway, I apologize for not having idealism in my marrows anymore: my primary thought was - what's in it for them? They do nothing unless it serves them.

And resigning Vick. As always, the swoosh doesn't avoid controversy. Good on 'em for the climate change stand.

Steve Novick:

one of the original organizers was E.A. Filene, the incredibly progressive department store magnate who said "why shouldn't the American people take half my money from me? After all, I took all of it from them."

<b<bob t:<="" b="">

I've seen this one before. It's a stupid remark. He didn't take money from anyone without giving up something in exchange. Anyway, he was alway free to give away as much of his own money as he wanted to. His own, and not anyone else's.

Bob Tiernan Portland

SteveDid everyone notice that Nike resigned from the board of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce due to the Chamber's opposition to climate change legislation? I'd rather they resigned from the Chamber entirely, but it's still a good thing. Yay Swoosh! JK: Why is it a good thing?

It only shows Nike's utter lack of climate knowledge or its placing corporate profits ahead of everyone else that will see "their energy bills skyrocket".

Or do you consider energy bills skyrocketing a good thing?

You didn't get suckered by Al's climate lies did you? See: SustainableOregon.com

Thanks JK

BTW, Steve, Do you really know anything about climate, beyond AL's hype?

Lets find out:

What greenhouse gas is responsible for the majority of the greenhouse effect?

What percentage of the greenhouse effect is due to CO2?

What percentage of annual CO2 emissions is due to man?

Thanks JK

Oh jesus h q. Here we go again.

Folks, do you think you MIGHT be able to NOT go on for six weeks blustering and cramping about this?

I hear a faraway roar of arguing... is it a tsunami on the way, or did Steve Novick introduce... A CLIMATE CHANGE THREAD without realizing he'd done it?

rw, That's a "tsunami of tstupid" on the way. HT Tbogg

Yet another nail in the coffin for AGW alarmists.

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091001/OPINION/910010322p

Up to 2 decades of cooling after 11 years of relative temperature stability. Oops.

Kari:

They never listen to you.... I just KNOW it's gonna be another ridiculous logjam climate change thread.

Chris: the p on the end of the oof? Ack!

Yeah Kari's right. This is a thread about Nike jumping into the Democrat vanguard of using the AGW movement to advance left wing energy policies.

So let's stick to the subject and give a hat tip to Democrats too. It's their game.

As for Novick, he's just doing his thing.

Thanks Chris for fixing the link. I guess I apologize for feeding into the cLimate Change, but then that is the reason Nike gave for their actions.

I can't figure them out. IMO, Nike only does things in their own selfish best interest as a company. I see nothing wrong with that.

However, when University of Oregon students joined the splinter group demanding sweat shop protections and othe guarantees more in line with North american manufacturing, Nike and Phil Knight withdrew monetary support from the University. When they knuckled under, the spigot was turned back on.

What does Nike hope to gain by this play? And make no doubt, it is a play.

Good try, Paulie. Maybe they will listen to you.

Amazing: this thread IMMEDIATELY devolved. Immediately.

Well, I was one who jumped and am guilty of devolving. However, the by-line states the REASON for Nike's resignation as being the Chamber's stance regarding climate change legislation.

THAT makes it fair game. There was nothing mentioned regarding funding for public schools in Oregon or an educated workforce.

BTW Paulie, that is such a Red Herring as to be laughable. Here in Oregon Gov Teddy has bs'ed his way around a trained workforce since at least 2003. He has done NOTHING to actually promulgate meaningful policy change or programs to actually help employers get the educated workforce that they want and need. Most companies and unions have decided to do the work on their own raher than wait for Oregon to do something meaningful.

Yah, I remember SEIU asking membership to support them putting in a computer lab for the ESL workers there, but looking blank when I asked if there would be any programming for those of us who were a half-step away from jobless all the time b/c we could not improve our skillsets and keep growing professionally, or were losing our onetime hotshot skills due to lack of employ of said skills.... my one argument with SEIU/AFL-CIO is that they see the sympathetic victim in the much-abused working class masses of colour, and that is their near-complete focus. There is little interest to be had in the displaced worker, attentuating skillset terrified or otherwise work-insecure who are not easy to commodify!

Oops. Devolved on the devolution. Anyway, Kurt - don't be a fussbudget. The point is not to immediately go for the red rubber ball and bite all the other dogs who say it's scarlet.

If you folks start talking climate change, it's about as dead as doornail.

"Did everyone notice that Nike resigned from the board of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce due to the Chamber's opposition to climate change legislation?"

... and the household products empire Johnson & Johnson, and the largest US nuclear power generator, Exelon along with Pacific Gas & Electric and PNM Resources.

And this was just last week.

In response William Kovacs, the chamber's vice-president for environment, technology and regulatory affairs told the Los Angeles Times the fight against the Obama administration will be akin to "It would be evolution versus creationism."

Oh good - let's bring in good old fashioned Southern Baptist Bible thumping to trump science.

And what was reason that PG&E pulled their membership? Was it due to the overwhelming proof? Nope. It was due to ".... the extreme rhetoric and obstructionist tactics" employed by the NCOC.

Now I turn the discussion back over to the exceptional cut 'n paste skills of Kurt and "Jamie."

Oops: during the years I worked at OHSU, SEIU came around to job-insecure membership clinging to their skills and stations by fingernails, and implored them to lift up the class just below. But seemed utterly unaware that we needed some help too! Many on my team lacked the fundamental PC skills to do more than their technical biotrade..... and most were single parents working crazy shifts.

Without debating whether the alarm over AGW is warranted or the pros- and cons- of the 'climate change' legislation (or 'cap-and-trade' as Der Fuhrer has admonished us - even though it's referenced as 'climate change' or 'global warming' pretty much everywhere else...) working its way through Congress, it's interesting that many if not most of the companies resigning from the US CoC are energy/utility companies...

Besides the PR opportunity for a moment in the spotlight on the 'We're Going Green!' business bonanza bandwagon so in vogue these days, it makes me think there's a substantial profit motive mixed in these energy/utility companies' vocal support of the legislation - not just some pure altruistic concern for the environment.

Kari Chisholm: This is not a place to debate climate change. This is a post about Nike, the Chamber, and cap and trade legislation. JK: Perhaps you missed it, but the current excuse for tax & trade, oops, cap & trade is climate change.

Take away climate change, and you have to find another excuse for cap & trade.

What might that excuse be?

BTW, why would anyone want to see “energy prices skyrocket”?

BTW, if you tink the science is settled, why did one IPCC section lead author recently say: “My colleagues and I are working to develop methods that are capable of expressing robust evidence of climate changes using tree-ring data.” (Bold added) (I assume you know that this was contained in his response to accusations of his falsifying data used at the very foundation of the IPCC reports.)

Thanks JK

Scott in Damascus: Oh good - let's bring in good old fashioned Southern Baptist Bible thumping to trump science. J: You got that right.

It is the scientists against the bible thumping IPCC, trained Baptist preacher, Al Gore and the religious warming zealots at RealClimate. I hope you know the IPCC just got caught with more junk science (a.k.a. religion) at the foundations of its case. Seems the data used by, lead author, Briffa was cherry picked. You know, that’s the same Briffa that has refused to divulge his data for over ten years (like hockey stick creator Mann also did until forced to reveal his data by congress). (I’ll bet you didn’t know the IPCC/Al Gore case is based on secret data!)

Scott in Damascus: Now I turn the discussion back over to the exceptional cut 'n paste skills of Kurt and "Jamie." J: At least I have read a pile of key papers in the field. How many have you read? By the way, my latest favorite is “A 2000 year Global Reconstruction Based on Non-Treering Proxies”in which Leohle is unable to find global warming when looking at ALL available proxies, except that darling of the IPCC, tree rings. He did, however find a medival warm period and little ice age, both more extreme than today.

Please look at actual data, not just Al’s sci-fi flick.

Thanks JK

If there's no hockey stick anymore, what's the reasoning behind the belief that global warming/cooling/staying the same is rational?

As long as Nike is being so righteous...

Could they explain the use of H4 visa workers? You know, the high tech. ones. Could they explain to me why it's good policy for the government to approve foreign work visas for a company that is swimming in unemployed neighbors from the high tech. sector? What is their contribution, after their tax breaks, toward the social services that go to the unemployed?

Between the small local corps, like Rapadigm, and the larger ones, like Intel, Nike, we are talking hundreds of work visas to fill high tech. jobs. I can tell you that putting hundreds of already resident high tech. workers back to work would have far greater knock-on effects for the local economy than Nike adding 3%, this quarter, to the bottom line.

As I've said before, the next time a corp is arguing job creation for tax breaks, subtract out those work visas and all the folks that will relocate from Iowa with the corp. In fact, it is exceedingly rare for a corp to relocate and hire, rank and file, locally. That starts with not automatically giving local pols the credit they want, simply by mentioning, "I was instrumental in getting xyz, corp to relocate to Portland". Yeah, and what exactly have those effects been? OHSU, for all its warts- and there are some that are huge and metastasized- at least actually creates jobs. Too bad its for the likes of the local pet thief and entrenched researcher, but it does create jobs.

Probably the main contribution that corporations like Nike and Wal Mart make to solving the climate crisis is that they pay most of their workers so little that they can't afford to buy much of anything, heat or cool their homes (if they have one) or drive anywhere (if they have a car.)

Evan manvel:

To their significant credit, Nike also spoke up in favor of many of the bills in the Oregon legislature in 2009 to address the climate crisis.

Bob T:

Doesn't Nike manufacture all their products in third world countries that will not be subject to cap & trade mandates? They are scoring PR points while at the same time prepared to sit and watch domestic companies have more costs imposed on them (for something that is not well thought out, for starters).

This reminds me of Otis Elevator Company coming out to support minimum wage laws long ago. They sought to gain because they were manufacturing automatic elevators that were easy for office workers and patrons to use without the need for an elevator operator on the payroll. But most people probably thought they were "progressive" thinking. Whatever.

Bob Tiernan Portland

Thanks, Beaverbrook. I was just entering the IT/IS workforce in software engineering when it crashed. I have to say that my veteran coworkers in the US REFUSED to take work that paid the same healthy rate as the imported Hindis. They did it to themselves, frankly..... BUT: once Americans got their heads out of their asses and were willing to accept a reasonable, healthy wage for their labors, the corporations had locked it down to using overseas sweatshops or importing the labor, and have never looked back.

Americans have to take responsibility for refusing to flex with the reality, but the corporations have to fess up to using the desperate from one country against its own citizens in yet another work niche.

Jamie: don't be an asshole. We are not debating the SCIENCE of climate change in this thread. We SHOULD be debating the efficacy of cap and trade as a means of addressing pollution and climate change.

Get it? Related, but different.

On jobs and visas:

There are a number of factors that have contributed to the influx of people from outside the US into domestic jobs: - American universities are still the schools of choice for students seeking a technical education; as they have been for quite some time - most tech programs at these schools have internships and other research efforts supported by US companies - the best and the brightest are the graduates that are selected for jobs at these companies; those that prove themselves at these companies during the internships and sponsored research are typically the ones the companies hire

My conclusion is that those that work the hardest and are the best qualified survive this level of selection, and land a job.

Except. . .

There may be a shift in the makeup of students who are pursuing these technical degrees. Perhaps US students, for whatever reason, are not clamoring for these kinds of majors while attending college. This may be due to the education focus of our K-12 system which have fewer students excelling in science or math.

Further, the decision makers at some of these companies, who may give preference to certain classes of students, due to nationalistic or familial preference - a certain degree of national nepotism.

As for the experienced, older workforce that is losing their jobs due to preference for the younger graduates, there may be a combination of outdated skills, work attitudes and performance, or simply that the companies are moving faster than their existing employees can keep up.

The old cry of H1/Hx hirees being cheaper is not really longer valid; the visa holders are quite smart about the job market. Instead, what is driving this is the desire to hire the best and the brightest. The part US students can address directly is to study and work hard in the right fields of study, to get a leg up on their peers. As for the nepotism or the "who you know" that exists, the solution is not so clear. I believe the latter two are more of a hindrance to laid-off workers.

Many of the workers who were here on visas have moved back to their home countries to establish or grow businesses there. ON the one hand, we gave them their start; on the other hand, we have created their ability to replace us. The danger of exporting our technical expertise is what is hurting us the most right now.

Back to Nike, I agree with the other comments that it may be trying to make popular points by their stand. As always though, actions speak louder than words.

As for the climate: it's always changing; especially in ways we have absolutely no control over.

Mike M - good points, and don't forget culture. I live in a reality that is constantly needing the culture piece injected...

Having worked with and loved Asian culture folks for some years, have to stress a couple of things that we like to feel is sinister, but really is just ... culture and the function of people who do NOT think of themselves first always and last too: I've experienced ppl from India are easy for management - they may be smart, but they are also acculturated to respect and respond to authority in ways we are not; and immigrants, especially successful ones, tend to feel familial and national responsibility to ACTIVELY extend and activate a hand in and a hand up to others of their family or nation. It's true. IT runs from something as simple as helping family come here, to selling a nice house to family more cheaply and carrying it for them too while you move to a better one, to giving away your old car to the next coming.... they help each other in ways that it seems Americans don't "get" needs to be happening. I experienced this when, as an adolescent exiting home with her first great love, I fell in amongst the Jews of LA. It was the first time I ever experienced what family is. Being afforded special deals, or just connections to get things done... I come from a family that doled such favors out to anyone but family, seeking anyone to make them feel good or do them some good, but not taking care of family. Cheesy.

So that was my first chance to experience not envy or jealousy or fear of those who help each other out, but the feeling of having any kind of backup to push off against, really.

This is integral to most of these immigrant cultures. It is long since wiped out of ours, except for hte petty, small-minded "family first" philosophy that sees little beyond one's own genetic children.

I live a different life now: among tribals who sacrifice honorably looking forward to the tasks that will be left to our grandchildren. And all of the children are our own. So we have LOTS of grandchildren communities we are praying and working for now.

I'm not the least bit surprised. It's a most savvy business move for Nike especially when one considers that most all of their product is produced offshore in nations where carbon trading schemes will not effect them in the least. They create the illusion of being green & environmentally responsible while the sweatshops overseas keep churning out the highly lucrative product at pennies on the dollar. Hell, they'll even get a tip of the hat from the uber-progressive Mr. Novick for that. Brilliant!!!

<h2>Nike is worried about global whining ? Give me a break. www.youtube.com/luddite333</h2>