Don't waste your time hating Walmart. Fix your community.
T.A. Barnhart
One of the basic tenets of evolution is that organisms fill in niches: If there is food, or a place to live, or other factors that encourage and enable life, some critter or other lifeform will grab that niche. Find a niche that works and remains stable, you can exist for tens of millions of years. Just ask the shark and cockroach.
Or Walmart. Granted, the Walmart niche is rather massive, but fill it they have. This makes many people unhappy for a lot of reasons, but, that’s how things work. Killing off an unwanted critter involves removing the conditions that allow for its growth and continuing existence. With a corporation the size of Walmart, it is not a simple matter. It may not even be desirable. But understanding the niche and the factors that enable them to develop and expand their place in the world is how Walmart can be defeated — or made into a responsible and valued community partner.
Walmart, of course, would argue that it is already the latter. I met with Bill Wertz, a Walmart PR rep, on Wednesday, at his invitation. He is trying to convince liberal bloggers, among others, that Walmart is not the corporation they are made out to be by many on the left. Walmart is, he tried to convince me, the kind of corporation the left should be supporting.
(Frustration: I recorded our conversation, with his permission, but technical difficulties, or possibly the pushing of the wrong button, means the recording did not happen. I have tried to recall his words honestly and accurately. I have no interest in presenting his positions falsely. That’s just stupid and will always backfire.)
Here is what Walmart is doing, as highlighted by Wertz:
- Instituted sustainability panels throughout all areas of the company
- Led the way in sourcing low-cost generics, forcing competitors to follow suit
- Making nutritious and even organic foods available in areas where no one else offers
- Pushing their suppliers overseas to pay living wages and enforce good treatment of workers
- Reduction in packing materials and finding ways to cut shipping costs
- Providing benefits to part-time employees
(You can visit their corporate website to get more details. I am sure there is plenty of misinformation and greenwashing, as with most corporations; but if they are selling Fair Trade bananas through Sam’s Club, that will help promote the entire concept of fair trade to Americans who might otherwise never know such a thing existed — or why it is a necessary retail strategy for the future.)
In turn, I mentioned things like opposition to unions, the destruction of small local businesses, inappropriately sized stores (as is being sought in La Grande), and production of lots of cheap crap (not in so many words). He replied that their workers do very well without unions, that the eradication of mom-and-pops is a myth, etc. Not being versed in the ABCs of Why Walmart Is Evil, I did not pursue these avenues in detail. No real point anyway: His job is to counter these perceptions, and he was far better prepared to do that than I could possibly have been to explain the badness of Walmart.
But as we were finishing our conversation, which was more than civil, I realized the most important thing of all: There was nothing either of us saying that actually mattered. Walmart is here to stay, and they will figure out ways to stick around even as the retail and corporate environment which they dominate changes. As I said, it’s about finding and filling a niche. They will continue to do that, so they will continue to be around and pursue their corproate goals, number one of which is to make mega-tons of money by remaining the world’s #1 retailer. They have no intention of following K-Mart, Penney’s or Sears into distant also-ran obscurity.
Walmart is neither the issue nor the enemy. Walmart is simply the result of the society we have created. The niche they fill, they did not create. We did. With the end of World War II, the growth of the middle class (aka the consumer class), the suburbs and automobile culture, we made a society that expects to drive places and buy things. We want to buy more, we want to pay less, and we want to schlep it all home in our big car. Many retailers have taken advantage of this niche, and the mall is almost the epitome of this culture of drive-and-shop.
Almost. Walmart is, for now, the epitome. The peak. The apex.
Walmart is not the enemy. The enemy, if you are for livable communities and progressive labor practices, is the combination of our dependance on the automobile and our addiction to retail. If you oppose Walmart — or Home Depot, or Ikea, or Target, or any of the many different big box chains that require driving and consumer debt — then your attention should not be aimed at the corporations but the niche in which they exist. Want a world without Walmart and their ilk? Here’s what needs to be done:
- Alternative transportation needs to become the norm
- Develop communities that turn back the tide of sprawl
- Situate homes, schools, jobs, shops, recreation and other amenities close together
- Encourage economic policies that enable small retailers to flourish within livable neighborhoods
- End price supports for the petroleum industry (including use of the miitary to secure oil) so that shipping tons of shit from millions of miles becomes cost-prohibitive
Walmart is simply an overwhelming representation of what has gone wrong with our society. Huge massive stores selling gazillions of tons of unnecessary crap at prices that deny living wages to the producers and require shoppers to drive miles and miles in over-sized vehicles — that’s not Walmart’s fault. That’s ours.
Livable, sustainable communities do not require driving, do not appreciate big box stores, and have little need for lots of cheap shit. Livable, sustainable communities require, first and foremost, an adjustment in our attitudes and expectations. When people want to get out of their cars; when they want their homes to be near their schools, near their jobs, near the shops and the places they play; when they stop confusing quality-of-life with stuff-I-bought; then the niche being filled by Walmart and their comrades will begin to shrink and disappear.
It’s possible Walmart will evolve to fill niches created by sustainable, livable communities. They are welcome to make such moves (Wertz described different kinds of stores they operate in other countries where conditions are markedly different than here in the US, some of which suggest this possibility). If people also object to a few corporations dominating the retail landscape — a situation that has many negative ramifications for the economy and society — then part of developing new communities will need to be dealing with what kinds of businesses we welcome into those communities. That is a tricky one, of course, given that we also value freedom in our country. Perhaps we’ll be able to use political and economic forces to make it in Walmart’s best interests to evolve into an entirely different corporation, one that is welcomed into communities as a partner of appropriate size and character.
Walmart does a lot of good things; no question about it. Like most corporations, it gives millions to charity. When Katrina struck and the Bush Administration failed to respond, Walmart helped fill that gap. They are responding to the changes in the world around them by going green in a meaningful way, by coming out for the employer mandate in health care, and through other company-sponsored initiatives designed to demonstrate, as Wertz argued, that they are a store all members of the community should welcome.
And that is entirely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is to decide what kind of communities we want, and then to make them possible. There is no place for any big box in a small community designed to allow people to walk or bike to get most of what they need — and with a quality of life that makes “need” much more than $95 worth of plastic-wrapped junk from China and Honduras.
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Oct 23, '09
A most excellent post, Mr. Barnhart. I would suggest reading the recent book entitled $20 Per Gallon: How the Inevitable Rise in the Price of Gasoline Will Change Our Lives for the Better, by Christopher Steiner, to find out why Walmart will either adapt away from its current "big box" model or join other former retail titans such as Woolworth's and Circuit City on the trash heap of retail history.
I continue to be mystified as to why Portlanders would be so opposed to Walmart, and yet tolerant of such stores as Fred Meyer (owned by a Cincinnati corporation), Target (owned by a Minneapolis corporation), and IKEA (owned by a Swedish corporation). Small business in Portland has already either adapted to competition from mega-stores or has perished.
Oct 23, '09
I used to be very anti-Wal Mart, back when I was single and didn't mind paying a few extra bucks for items. But now that I have a family to support, we do shop at Wal Mart, because it is much, much cheaper. Clearly, trying to wage all-out war against Wal-Mart hasn't hurt the company very much. I like the approach you took, T.A., in sitting down with one of their suits to express your concerns. The concept of good corporate citizenship is gaining ground, fortunately. I was in an MBA program earlier this year, and it actually emphasized that you can be profitable and responsible at the same time. Obviously, MBA programs in the past took a much different approach, which is part of what's gotten us to where we are now. But I'm sure Wal-Mart does feel that pressure, increasingly, and will respond accordingly. If it doesn't, the company may ultimately end up losing a lot of support, which is bad for the bottom line.
Oct 23, '09
"When Katrina struck and the Bush Administration failed to respond". Who delayed the evacuation order, had no drivers ready to operate the school buses that stood idle, failed to stock the Superdome with food and water, and let the looters rampage without any interference from police? Who was hesitant to order a mandatory evacuation because of concerns about the city's liability for closing hotels and other businesses? Who illegally confiscated firearms in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
Oct 23, '09
T.A. Barnhart: The enemy, if you are for livable communities and progressive labor practices, is the combination of our dependance on the automobile and our addiction to retail.
Here’s what needs to be done: [And here will be the results - do you really want this?]
* Alternative transportation needs to become the norm [so that we waste time money and energy on mass transit, or merely waste time and rise our lives on bikes.]
* Develop communities that turn back the tide of sprawl [So that we will all pay more for housing and thus have less money for food, heat and overall have a lower standard of living. You will, also according to recent data, live in a whiter community.]
* Situate homes, schools, jobs, shops, recreation and other amenities close together [so that we will have more congestion and pollution by putting more people and their pollution and cars on existing roads.]
* Encourage economic policies that enable small retailers to flourish within livable neighborhoods [Again you are advocating that we lower our standard of living by paying more for all of our purchases. Are progressives ignorant of basic economics that drive the large stores? Or do you really want to lower people’s standard of living?]
* End price supports for the petroleum industry (including use of the miitary to secure oil) so that shipping tons of shit from millions of miles becomes cost-prohibitive :[This will again raise our cost of living and reduce our standard of living. It will effect transit more than cars since buses use MORE energy to transport each person each mile.]
[Nice plan to put more people in poverty. HOW DOES THAT IMPROVE LIVABILITY? HOW DOES THAT HELP THE UNION MOVEMENT? - so perfectly progressive.]
Oct 23, '09
T.A. Barnhart: The enemy, if you are for livable communities and progressive labor practices, is the combination of our dependance on the automobile and our addiction to retail.
Here’s what needs to be done: [And here will be the results - do you really want this?]
* Alternative transportation needs to become the norm [so that we waste time money and energy on mass transit, or merely waste time and rise our lives on bikes.]
* Develop communities that turn back the tide of sprawl [So that we will all pay more for housing and thus have less money for food, heat and overall have a lower standard of living. You will, also according to recent data, live in a whiter community.]
* Situate homes, schools, jobs, shops, recreation and other amenities close together [so that we will have more congestion and pollution by putting more people and their pollution and cars on existing roads.]
* Encourage economic policies that enable small retailers to flourish within livable neighborhoods [Again you are advocating that we lower our standard of living by paying more for all of our purchases. Are progressives ignorant of basic economics that drive the large stores? Or do you really want to lower people’s standard of living?]
* End price supports for the petroleum industry (including use of the miitary to secure oil) so that shipping tons of shit from millions of miles becomes cost-prohibitive :[This will again raise our cost of living and reduce our standard of living. It will effect transit more than cars since buses use MORE energy to transport each person each mile.]
[Nice plan to put more people in poverty. HOW DOES THAT IMPROVE LIVABILITY? HOW DOES THAT HELP THE UNION MOVEMENT? - so perfectly progressive.]
Oct 23, '09
Jamie, you can make all of the ideological arguments you want in favor of the sprawl you so love.
$10 per gallon gasoline will put an end to your dreams more effectively than the Metro Council or Earl Blumenauer ever could.
Oct 23, '09
Part of it is that they evolve over time and a particularly formative incident that one may experience with them is a snapshot.
OK. Shoot. I worked on a computer contract with them in Bentonville in 1991. I'll not go into the reasons I left hating them. Yet. If I did the answer would be purely ad hoc rebuttal (and knowing BO readers, very ad hominem).
So, simple question. Is he claiming the corp is different today? How so, exactly. Could he ask someone that's been with them for 20 years (assuming he hasn't), practically, everyday, how is it different? Yeah, I saw the nice list, but is it greenwash? I want to know about how the corporate culture is the same and/or different. I'm more interested in knowing that the grizzly bear is friendly than knowing that he isn't going to eat my dinner. If he's friendly, I might let him have my dinner.
If one can't answer that without knowing what was objectionable first, it's just a whitewash.
No, I was going to say that obviously the organism has taken note of our puny existence, or they wouldn't be doing this, but that assumes they haven't changed. So I'll wait for it. What's different about the corporate culture? I think I think like most progressives when I say that Wal-Mart's bullying history is more salient than their footprint.
I think this should have been two posts. All the bits about community planning are great progressive grist for the blog mill. The Wal-Mart outreach is interesting too. Combining the two seems a bit like having Jack Kevorkian stump for the Administration's health care agenda. Nothing against Dr. Jack.
Oct 23, '09
This is the first cogent approach for those who would rail against Wal-Mart that I find intellectually grounded. To the list I would add:
1.Shop locally and support local reatialers. 2. Do away with individual bottled water. That crap costs huge amounts in trasportation, manufacturing and disposal costs.
My wifes family are all good UAW families. Yet they shop at Wal-Mart every week. The problem, as ta.a put it IS NOT Wal-Mart. The problem is the world that we have allowed to be created. Surbubia meet Gomorrah.
5:17 p.m.
Oct 23, '09
TA, while I share some of your attitudes in this post, I don’t share them all. I have advocated for a gas tax that would accelerate some of the transportation transitions you promote. And, like Urban Planning Overload, I’ve read “$20 per gallon.” But I don’t think all the changes it forecasts are for the better.
I also seldom shop at Walmart. It’s not convenient.
What concerns me, if I can be frank, is the snobbish, sneering tone you seem to have for Walmart merchandise, and, by extension for the people who shop there. Please correct me if I’m wrong. To my sensibilities, your tone is (and I’m not saying you are) almost racists, and certainly a bit nativist with lots of class overtones.
For the merchandise, you use terms like “unnecessary crap,” “cheap shit,” and “plastic wrapped junk.” Who do you think buys Walmart merchandise and why?
I think lots of folks with limited resources shop there. These are folks the progressive wing of the Democratic Party should be representing. Not only does Walmart provide them with low-cost goods and choices, it puts competitive pressure on other stores to keep their prices down too. This makes the lives of folks with limited resources better and is good. What is “crap,” “shit,” or “junk” to you may be quite something else to someone else.
Oct 23, '09
Urban Planning Overlord $10 per gallon gasoline will put an end to your dreams more effectively than the Metro Council or Earl Blumenauer ever could. JK: No, we’ll just drive more efficient cars, like the Europeans do. (You do know that 78% of motorized travel in the EU15 countries is by passenger car don’t you?)
Besides, most jobs are in the suburbs, where most people live, so there will be little incentive for most people to live in your inner city rat cages in the Pearl.
BTW, at $10/gal, transit will be in really bad shape as its usage will increase which will require more subsidy, but the people will be in no mood to increase taxes for transit.
AND, finally, don’t forget that transit, even in dense cities, uses more energy than private cars. Much more than hybrid cars, so if you wish for more transit usage, you are wishing to waste energy and emit more CO2.
5:48 p.m.
Oct 23, '09
Dave, if by "snobbish" you mean cheap, poorly made, disposable, prone to break sooner rather than later, made for pennies -- well, yes, i guess you could use that word. i was raised in a lower-middle class family, and we always had stuff, and often it was used. my mom sewed many of my clothes until part way thru 7th grade. i wore the same down parka (in Montana) for my last 3 years of high school. my dad built his stereo (it still works), he & my grandpa built the kitchen nook & transformed the back garage into a playroom with bedroom above. today, i buy good quality things - a Mac, my cameras, my Surly bike - not because they are better but because they are good. i shop at Goodwill, i cook from scratch, i get things via Craigslist. i have lived most of my life with limited means & do very well not shopping at Walmart. my snobbery is content to watch tv via Hulu & Netflix using my computer. i cook from scratch (and eat better than most people; my pizza is killer).
which only underscores my point: it's about attitudes, and an attitude about the quality of life we want. when i buy stuff, i want the good stuff. not the best, not the popular or cool; i go for quality that functions and lasts. i balance that with $6 pants from Goodwill and $8 spent on homemade black bean soup that would give you religion. i want a quality of life that does not require me to either "make do" with cheap crap or simply do without some of the nicer things in life. it takes some effort, but it can be done.
you can call that snobbery if you want, but i think you reveal a snobbish attitude of your own to do so.
Oct 23, '09
because people are very narrow minded and are brainwashed big time by the united food and commercial workers union who btw tells grocery workers to always accept crappy contracts with paltry to no wage increases.the same junk from china walmart sells is sold at target,k-mart,costco,fred meyer,ufcw union grocery stores and all the other mom and pop stores the anti walmart crowd shops at and it appalls me that we dont get the same level of complaining from these folks about all their favorite stores selling the same items from china and overseas.sure walmart could pay better but so could all the other stores too.walmart pays competetive wages and actually better than k-mart and target does.walmart is a good company and its time people start realizing that
Oct 23, '09
Walmart has become an American Staple. Our family has depended on it's good prices to help us get by from month. uterine fibroids uterine fibroids
6:54 p.m.
Oct 23, '09
@TA, I admire your values, but I think you must have a very low opinion of anyone who shops at Walmart or brings their "cheap, poorly made, disposable, prone to break sooner rather than later, made for pennies" stuff home. Maybe they are making the best choices they can. Maybe they don't see Walmart mechandise that way.
8:16 p.m.
Oct 23, '09
Doug, what you are reading into my attitudes - try a mirror. the only Walmart shoppers that give me any pause are these! i stated what i care about. feel free to take me at my word.
12:21 a.m.
Oct 24, '09
Very interesting TA and you have a good point. Here in Korea, Walmart closed up shop and left about 3 or 4 years ago. Around the same time Carrefour (French owned) also pulled out. Most of it was the fact that their stores weren't doing well here. Where as Homeplus, which is a joint venture between TESCO (British) and Samsung is doing very well (as is Costco).
Korea tends to have a very urban sprawl problem especially in the Seoul-Incheon area. They are always trying to building "new" cities and building new apartment buildings that are affordable so people can own their own places. This means they also buy cars and drive them, often large ones. It's a really bad habit. Not everyone owns one, but it's bad enough that the pollution and traffic continues to be a problem that grows and grows.
Oct 24, '09
An unintentional positive effect of Wal-Mart is that when you place a Wal-Mart in a neighborhood, it has the amazing ability to greatly deflate the nearby property values. That means that the people who work at Wal-Mart might actually be able to move in to those properties adjacent to where they work and thus, eliminating the need for automobile transit.
However, that doesn't always work so cleanly. People don't always like to leave their home to live near a place that will guarantee they will be making borderline poverty wages. There are always a few folks who would willingly put their future in the hands of a WalMart, but most will just take that job to "get by until something better comes along", and thus, most likely won't relocate to that neighborhood and continue to drive.
It's kind of amazing how all these things tie together so directly. If corporations actually made it worthwhile and stable/reliable enough for more people to invest their careers into them, maybe more people would live closer to where they work and that might mean they'd drive less. But it's just not like that. Companies lay people off so often that no one can trust anything anymore. That culture really starts the ball rolling in the wrong direction.
6:25 a.m.
Oct 24, '09
We created the niche like we created the payday loan store niche and there's always a vulture ready to fill the void.
Oct 24, '09
What is meant by "as is being sought in La Grande"? I live and work in La Grande, and I'm not certain to what this comment is referring. Please enlighten me, thanks.
Oct 24, '09
Is this THE Charlie Mitchell, formerly of Grants Pass?
If so, and you don't know about Wal-Mart efforts in LaGrande, then they aren't going on. :-)
Oct 24, '09
Kurt, it is I. What I don't understand, I guess, is that we have a Wal-Mart Superstore already here, and it's in Island City, not La Grande. I'm not aware of any new plans they or La Grande have in this regard, which is why I was questioning the comment. It certainly is possible that others may know something that I don't. But I am the City's Community & Economic Development Director, so if something were REALLY going on (i.e. not a rumor), I would think I would probably know about it.
Oct 24, '09
t.a.: You are correct in theory, but it would be very hard if not impossible to put your theory into practice. Reshaping the entire American physical and cultural landscape will not happen overnight.
Besides which, assuming such a transformation could be effected, why couldn't Walmart morph from the big-box model to a many-small-shops model? It could become the Starbucks of retail, so to speak. It would still retain dominance, would still be able to undercut competitors, would still be able to screw its workers. (Excuse me -- I meant "associates.")
12:52 p.m.
Oct 24, '09
dart - i tried to make the same point in my post. the Portland/Metro area has the opportunity to lead the way in changing niches (so to speak). the current Metro process on the Regional Transportation Plan, Urban Growth Boundaries, etc, give us the chance to develop our community(s) in a way that move us from carcentric communities to ones i'd label as livable/sustainable. if we can make it happen here in our area, others can learn and follow.
Oct 24, '09
TA, had Terry Gross been invited to that interview she would have PREPARED herself. Not with tendential and biased lines, but, rather with good questions and enough knowledge to use follow up questions that got under the veneer of what the interviewee's "job" is.
I'm disappointed by this post.
I know you may feel it is another feather in the "I'm not a party line liberal" hat... but it was just not well-researched enough to be that!
Perhaps WalMart is less evil than it was a decade ago. That is possible. I lived in OK when the JB Hunt/Walton and Tyson families, intensely intermarried and intermingled viz businesses, were playing underhanded so as to control the various markets they played in.
JB Hunt would steal trucking contracts by doing a Comcast gig - temporarily underbid them, drive out the other companies or severely cut into their contracts, but jack the prices up precipitously down the road. It would take the customer significant time to get out of the fix and the jacked up arrangement... and it see sawed back and forth this way.
Just so, they still employ part timers below the level where benefits cut in, and the benefits are typically pointless offerings given the earnings levels of the holders of the policies! Perhaps THAT has changed in the past five years? Dunno.
But a little bit of research would have equipped you to ask very specific questions with current and historical data to get past the spin. Maybe.
Anyway, thanks for being willing not to be merely PC. I have to admit that I'd drop down to CostCo to get a flatscreen TV if I had the money, since CostCo is charging as much as any smaller store in our area for the same products as much cheaper at WalMart.
I agree with your assertion that there are entities in our area that are viciously cleaning up on the populace. CostCo, which all of you PC folks do include in your habitat, is not giving much to speak of in terms of price breaks or local goods... they are on that same gargantuan no-frills model, but still making the full dollar off us.
:)... I'm not very PC either. I wish we had an independent thought source to provide us the comparatives on Evil BigBox. It would be a good time for it.
Oct 24, '09
You know what makes me happy about this thread? FINALLY the Wild Oats/New Seasons, fifty-five dollar grocery bag crowd are saying what I have said over the past two years. The snobbery and self-satisfied blindness of those who "choose" away can be a little numbing to those who would LOVE to indulge the aesthetics of such choosing!
I feel hinky shopping at Target, Fred's and CostCo (especially CostCo). Equally hinky at Home Depot and Lowe's, not knowing who they are or where they are from, but suspecting they are getting over, truly.
You go on and on ad nauseum about being willing to "pay just a little bit more" to force the rest of the world to listen up and make the necessary changes. Kids, the only ones you will get to is those of us who will be choosing between turning on some heat in winter or putting on extra sweaters and putting a blanket on the poor bird's cage! You will not get the jag towne coup crowd to change one whit. The little bit YOU consider a good investment is a lot to the ones below you, and nothing to the ones above. Tolls and tariffs are not the way to get at this, not progressive. SOme folks are carefully making it!
Time to start really talking about this from the place some of you are breaking open here. Hurray and thank you.
Oct 24, '09
ta, you sound like the dream date. I apologize for assuming you to be like a number of folks I've experienced who have the sensibilities and reference points I've seen expressed up here. I think it's good to share details of who we are and how we live, provide a picture of ourselves to help folks to sort out assumptions. I apologize. You sound like the me I'm TRYING to be beyond laziness (cooking from scratch, for instance) so that my life stops being about striving that is not paying off, but, rather, about an aesthetic that eschews caring what another sees, the norms that say what I should have or have achieved by now. And it is indeed best to find a way to get your hands on quality if you are able.
But not good to sniff at those who might not have been fortunate enough to have had that aesthetic developed in their lives. IF I were to be that way, I would do great harm to relations of mine who have not had the opportunities I have had to encounter so many different aesthetics.
I remember my Cheyenne dad musingly holding a plastic coffee mug from a biway quickie mart from one of our runs across the country. In a yearning voice he said, "I'd like to have a whole set of these. All just like these."
It would have been a crime for me to shit on his musing, snob at his dreaming. It meant something to him, possibly a richness of a liftime of ceremonial travels and high adventure on pennies and bad coffees.
Adventures other people write books about, make films and poems on.
So... while I hear what you are saying, I think it is useful to listen up if someone says they feel talked down to... in case we are unwittingly!
6:28 p.m.
Oct 24, '09
TA: did you miss the question about the plans for a LaGrande WalMart? I didn't. Either you've pulled something out of your you know what or you've broken news that's important. Can you answer Mr. Mitchell's question...?
7:03 p.m.
Oct 24, '09
Jesse, it's The Dalles - a minor error, given what i am writing about, but thanks for noodging me: i did miss his question.
and rw, i have no freaking idea what you are saying. sorry. unless you are agreeing it's going to take time, work and a lot of education to change people's perceptions away from "stuff" to "quality of life", the latter being about livability & sustainability and not about retail.
Oct 24, '09
ta, in short:
I believe you could have done a little bit of research before going in to receive the message from the WalMart lackey so as to get a really meaningful dialog beneath the veneer;
No freaking idea, huh? Sorry for you. I'll quit manning up when I mistake you for chic middle class PC thinker who pronounces how much more everyone else needs to pay so as to fix the world we are all concerned about since [you] are quite able and happy to pay that.
Your efforts to puncture the PC coziness is not always successful. However, it is laudible. And once I understood your way of life, a little more believable at base.
Does that clear a few things up? Guess certain folks' contributions were more what you were lookin' for.
I never really feel respected by you. Even when I say, "Oh, dear t.a., I made a mistake about you - sorry". Kind of takes the fun out of doing the right thing, guy.
Grr.
10:04 p.m.
Oct 24, '09
rw, i've never pretended to be that kind of writer. i went to hear what he had to say, nothing more. we actually had a meaningful dialogue; sadly i neither recorded nor memorized it (the danger of depending on devices). he had facts & figures i could never hope to match, so i did not bother to try. so we talked about perceptions, attitudes, etc. facts are the least important thing when dealing with most important issues. my goal is to look for the opening to 1, two-way communication (Bill & i had that), and 2, a few steps further down the road to a better, progressive democracy. my post suggested those steps; i can't walk for other people. i can't tell other people they have to walk them. it's the way i see it, and it's close to how i live my life.
i did not mean to insult you in any way, btw. you ran off 3 comments, and i honestly had trouble following where you were going. not much i can do about that. i guess i could have ignored you; that would not have been cool, either.
Oct 24, '09
t.a. barnhart commented: Livable, sustainable communities do not require driving, do not appreciate big box stores, and have little need for lots of cheap shit.
Sounds like the preamble for a commune constitution...
Oct 25, '09
Yah - you know, facts are phenomenological in the end you know of course. Kinda like hearsay, really!
So tell me - did he seem really interested in the perceptions and concerns, and empowered to bespeak them? Or was that professional listening?
Sometimes hard to tell the difference. And those of us who might truly seek a breakthru moment... we get fooled a lot and still keep trying. I think progressives are political romantics, you know. It takes a pragmatic to make a marriage work, but you have to start with the ideal to fire up that romantic motivation that gets ya married... whoops. Prolix again, and a mangled metaphor.
Just saying, he's paid to professionally "communicate". But you never know when your representation of a community which does not seek to come "armed" might just be what was required...
One thing I will say abt WM that most ppl here probably do not know: in the southern and midwestern states where they predominate, they often give huge huge amounts of goods away month by month, year by year. Everyone comes to them for their fundraisers, and gets stuff.
There was no way the schools, libraries, 501c3s like my AIDS work, the crisis intervention gig I worked or countless others.... could survive and do thier thing without the substantive and easygoing support WM provides year round. For all that they are very much not good corporate citizens in the big picture, they are the kings of local politics.
And might evne mean it on a human level as object passes from one hand to the other to be turned into grist for the community survival mills.
Oct 25, '09
hey t.a.: there's a good reason I'm not married. It's my sterling temperament and my lack of chile-making skills.
Ehhhhhhhh.
Oct 25, '09
well, I'll be dip! more propagandist bullsh!! tat puts the store with tat star in the name on the good side from "I didn't do tat."
They didn't move their Global Procurement Offices to Hong Kong and than to China to buy American made and Sam Walton didn't take tat hyphen out of their name and replace it with a single star.
It is dang right funny now you people don't understand tat America at on time made stuff to sell and it only took ONE person in the household to do tat.
Now, here moves tis big "ONE WORLD ORDER" kick and the word "CHEAP" being inserted into the American vocabulary as if it is a good time. Well, tat one world order crap ain't no where in the Constitution and neither is the word cheap.
Today, you got a bunch of turnips in D. C. trying to cram a carbon tax down the throats of the American taxpayer and at the same time you got 15...yes 15 Cargo Ships putting around the World and those Ships pollute as much as 760 MILLION AUTOMOBILES.
Tis great union wus built on a strong currency and the American worker(non-union and union) making stuff and when you take those two things away ....all you have is Retail tat makes NOTHING and a country full of consumers with so much debt tat it would choke a horse.
So! tis person doesn't think Wal*Mart is the enemy....well, T. A. they sure as he!! ain't helping the situation.
Jus read tis-
"Wal-Mart firmly believes in local procurement. We recognize that by purchasing quality products, we can generate more job opportunities, support local manufacturing and boost economic development. Over 95% of the merchandise in our stores in China is sourced locally. We have established partnerships with nearly 20,000 suppliers in China."
Tats off their China web page and in doing tis in China it keeps their currency "yuan" in their country working for all the people there.
Now, take the time to read "The Flow of Trade in a Global Economy" by Lance Winslow. There is one quote from his article tat comes in mind. "Now let us look at Wal-Mart again; you buy a product there, 6% goes to the employees, 10-18% is profit to the company, 25% goes to other costs and 50% goes to re-stock or the cost of goods sold. Of the 50% about 20-25% goes to China, a guess, but you get the point. Now then, how long will it take at 433 Billion dollars at year for China to have all of our money, leaving no money flow for us to circulate? At a 17 Trillion dollar economy less than 40-years minus the 1/6 they buy from us. Some say that if we keep putting money into our economy, it would take forever, but if we do not then eventually all the money flow will go. If China buys our debt then eventually they own us, no need to worry about a war, they are buying America, due in part to our own mismanaged trade, so whose fault is that? Not necessarily China, as they are doing what's in the best interests, and we should make sure that trade is not only free, but fair too."
Also, think for a moment about George Washington....yes the man tat is on the US dollar bill.... "Washington had been reelected unanimously in 1792. His decision not to seek a third term established a tradition that is now embedded in the 22d Amendment of the Constitution. In his Farewell Address of Sept. 17, 1796, he drew on the results of his varied experience, offering a guide for both present and future. He urged his compatriots to cherish the Union, support the public credit, be alert to the “insidious wiles of foreign influence,” respect the Constitution and the nation’s laws, abide by the results of elections, and eschew political parties of a sectional cast. Asserting that the United States and Europe had different interests, he declared that it “is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world,” trusting to temporary alliances for emergencies. He also warned against indulging in either habitual favoritism or habitual hostility toward particular nations, lest such attitudes should provoke or involve the country in needless wars."
Take the time to read his farewell address after only eight years of serving his country and than ask yourself tis....How do you think George feels being sent overseas in return for all tat foreign so-call cheap items and being left in a foreign bank because the American worker doesn't make anythig for the foreigners to buy. Cheap items didn't make tis great union of 57...oops! 50 states the greatest place on the face of tis Earth.....the American worker (union and non-union) did.
You can't have a strong country without having a strong currency and you can't have a strong currency unless you keep it floating around within your 50 states.
Tis is why the store with the star in the name puts 95% China made items in their stores in China....to keep their "yuan" in their country helping the nice people there. And with only 5% left for all the other 182 country's tat make stuff including the United States of America....tat doesn't produce very many jobs outside of China.
Being an old person myself and knowing how it wus back in the 40's, 50's and 60's in tis union of 50 states....I look at George each time I pull him out of my billfold and make a promise to send him out for items made in America so after floating around helping each hand he touches jus maybe one day he will shake mine again.
Oct 25, '09
You know mad, when every other word has the little red line under it, odds are pretty good that the content is crap too.
Is anyone going to address Beav's question about the corporate culture? Has it changed? Some of us are actually open minded and thinking on this. Some data please.
Oct 25, '09
well, Peri....from the day of Henry Ford giving his employee's a $5 a week raise to the day tat John Kennedy got shot over signing Executive Order 11110...yes the corporate culture has most definitely changed.
In 1910 there wus only $2.6 billion of national debt in government and there wus no income tax and in 2008 tat debt had mushroomed to $10.4 trillion with every kind of tax those turnips in D. C. could come up with and next year the nincompoops will be taxing the air you breath.
Take a little time and spend it on Michael Hodges "Grandfather Economic Report" series and you will see jus how much the D. C. culture as been inundated by the greedy @ssholes of Wall Street.
America is over $57 TRILLION in debt and your not gonna get tis great union out of tis mess by buying cheap foreign items and having it's government sell tat tablet right out of the Statue of Liberty's hand.
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage." Alexander Tyler
8:29 a.m.
Oct 25, '09
Thanks TA! I don't know why that stuck in my mind.
Oct 25, '09
I asked the same question, Jesse.
Oct 25, '09
Also, am curious as to why Jesse is watching this thread so closely, and ensuring that t.a. picks up on small, substantive, informational questions being asked? Nobody ever does that up on BO. Jesse, what is your specific interest in this one?
Oct 25, '09
The question was about Wal-Mart, specifically. Do they think like they did in the aforementioned Hunt/Tyson/Walton days? If so, all their touted efforts are just a greenwash.
Oct 25, '09
No, Peri: I am asking Jesse why he is paying special attention. Nobody does that on Blue Oregon, so I'd like to know if he has a particular political or business or policy interest in this to cause him to watch the thread and be sure that t.a. or whoever reveals facts about certain informationals. Something afoot?
Oct 25, '09
Perhaps Jesse has a monetary dog in the race so to speak and wants more information. Who can say. Or perhaps his idealogical discrinminations are pre-set vis-a-vis Wal-Mart.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that Wal-Mart revenue and spending is about the 8th largest economy in the world. Their cash flow and revenue is more than the GDP of most countries. They are a wold power and presence.
1:15 p.m.
Oct 25, '09
"No WalMart in Sellwood."
Victory for that mantra five years ago ... and the empty lot is still an empty lot.
I got in lots and lots of arguments with my neighbors for being on the "wrong" side of that debate, including then Council member Adams who asked me why I hated poor people. Many told me then, and still tell me, that we're better off with a non-productive empty lot (and an area of town that is generally on the skids) than with a commercial entity in that spot.
I just guess I don't get it. You can accommodate WalMart in town while forcing them to honor our expectations of large corporate entities: requiring certain wage and health care policies, as well as making them pony up for a transportation hub in the space.
But no, this became a political football, and the lot is still empty ...
Oct 26, '09
Paul, the same thing occured in Central Point. What was an old orchard, devoid of trees is now filled with weeds.
Oct 26, '09
np, rw. I was responding to madmilker.
Oct 26, '09
Posted by: Peri Brown | Oct 25, 2009 6:41:24 AM
Is anyone going to address Beav's question about the corporate culture? Has it changed? Some of us are actually open minded and thinking on this. Some data please.
I apologize for getting your hopes up that the discussion could be responsive. This blog is the same people saying the same things to the same audience. More of a show and tell than a debate. You know, like the kid that puts his hand up and adds stuff that the kid doing the show and tell didn't? That's rude. The questions tou ask at a show and tell, have to support the presenter. Questioning is hostile. That's why you drew the wingnut.
Oct 26, '09
Posted by: matthew vantress | Oct 23, 2009 6:13:43 PM
because people are very narrow minded...
You've certainly changed your views since you said,
Truth is that Walmart has, does and will into the future conduct surveillance on everybody possible and most especially its critics. It is a two way street for information and Walmart psychotics are written in stone.
Matthew S. Vantress
PO Box 0513
Gresham, OR 97030-0513
Oh, right. We swallow their greenwash like kool-aid. No sense determining if they're still corporate bullies. Green bullies are good bullies.
Oct 26, '09
My god, "rw", brother Bud is right! You DO have something in common. A side note on the Ghost Dance and calling on the spirit to fill humans- The Ghost Dance of the American Indians was outlawed by claimed fiat authority of the Bureau of Indian Affairs who were very afraid and needed enforcement ultimately by the U.S. Army who arrested Sitting Bull of the Lakota Sioux who was ki11ed for not stopping the Ghost Dance on December 15, 1890. Perhaps the last known incident of the Ghost Dance was when a Walmart internet fraud one Matthew Vantress held a lonely candlelight vigil at the corner of 182nd and Powell in Gresham, Oregon where Walmart was supposed to build and did not, a supercenter sometime in 2008.
Oct 27, '09
So many Wal Mart shoppers are sold hook, line and sinker, end of story. It’s all about finances, and, as others have alluded to, even many people who might be opposed to Wal Mart philosophically (pro union, for example) will shop there if their budget dictates it. I know some people from my hometown, even OEA teacher union activists , who will drive two hours to shop at Wal Marts in Central Oregon, Hood River or Umitilla Country.
Apparently Wal Mart made some smart decisions early on, for example, giving their rapidly growing stock to employees and catering to African Americans while other southern stores were sometimes still denying service or using other discriminatory practices. Former Congressman/ Atlanta Mayor Andy Young got in trouble a few years ago when he alluded to this fact in rather blunt terms.
Don't get me wrong, I am anti-Wal Mart for many reasons and never shop there. (check out http://www.walmartmovie.com/) I try to shop at Safeway , Albertsons, Fred Myers (all three usually union on the west coast) or family owned stores.
The best way to go after Wal Mart is to fight hard to block new stores, or expansion of current stores to SuperCenters. Two examples in OR: Residents of The Dalles have been battling a proposed Wal mart there, and I think that Hood River successfully blocked expansion to a super center.
7:07 p.m.
May 29, '10
Everything that I buy from walmart breaks. I have went through 3 dvd-vcr combos in the past couple of years. I also bought a tv from there that lasted about 3 years. It was a magnovox. Everything that is sold there is made from china. you wonder why the USA is doing terrible with the economy. How to Become an Ultrasound Technician How to Earn Extra Money