Now that Tony Marino (R-Cell Block E) is off to the hoosegow, he only confirms the inverse relationship between how vociferously one promotes “family values” (as long as he gets to define the “family”) and the potential depth of his depravity.

I note that he looks all of 48 years in this picture from the Times, whereas the ones from the campaign period did not.

Appeal to the better angels of our nature, eh? Well, I tell you what. I'm sick of doing that. Last night I heard a fellow traveler of Mr. Marino call our President a liar -- and not on some half-assed talk show, but in the House Chamber during a Presidential address, and I'm not feeling too magnanimous today.

I'm tried of playing nice with these people. Mr. Marino may be, as you put it, "sick" but he's also a raving hypocrite and a supporter of dangerous and hurtful policies that appeal not to our better angels of our nature, but our ugly devils of our fear.

If he can get help for whatever ails him, so much the better. But he's earned whatever scorn and ridicule we can heap on him.

For good or ill, sympathy is not a currency I'm willing to spend on conservatives just now.

Murphy, I am not one for moral relativism but if you want to get in the mud fine, this time I will join you. Outbursts during Presidential Addresses to Congress are nothing new. I guess you are equally upset about Dems and this stunt:

here

Get off you high-horse, politics is a contact sport….

Hey, Mud Wrestler, it's one thing to boo, another to inaccurately call someone a liar.

Sorry, TA. I totally disagree. Yes, he is sick. Yes, this is a seriously sad story that has nothing to do with other hypocrites out there. But he is a rapist. This criminal may deserve counseling, but "well wishes?!?" He took advantage of a young woman's desire to get to know her father by intoxicating and raping her. I can't believe they let him plea to a lesser crime given the evidence.

I wonder how known ass clown and child rapist defender, jeff merkley, feels about this one...

It's your money Carla, be my guest..he's gonna need it...I'm sure rapists all over Oregon will be happy to join you in your cause..

Once again the Rs' thoughtless adherents show themselves to be shrill, desperate losers.

Oy, Kari: anyone who sexually abuses their progeny has psychological issues. The fact that he was also a severely schismed/delusional pretender during campaign season (cf the hate-based family values agenda as well as unfounded attacks that actually touch on the territory now seen to belong to his own damned-to-internal hells psyche... ), that's sick my dear.

No guarantee of recovery sick.

Not sure I "wish him well", but it's a sad fact that the vicious game of politics makes plenty of room for this kind of illness and always has.

Let's be careful in over-empathizing about his sickness, his illness. Rape is a crime. He's a criminal. I have greater concern for the victim.

What struck me about the CA story was that this guy was entertaining his Republican colleagues, conservative "Christian family values" proponents all, with this filth, and they lapped it up. The whole bunch-of-em are sicko hypocrites.

What is most interesting to me about the pretended liberal disgust by some of the BO regulars is that they will, on other occasions, insist that there is no such thing as an absolute standard of morality, and that each person is free to decide for himself what is and isn't moral. (isnt that what Marino did?)

Then they will talk about how 'evil' Marino is, when they don't even believe in an objective concept of evil

Morality is just opinion, right?

cue sound effect- can of worms being opened lol

Given the frequency of child sexual abuse and rape, I am not sure that I agree that anyone who commits these acts is "sick". One could argue that our society actually trains people to commit these crimes by sexualizing young children, promoting domination (especially among men) as a legitimate method to achieve personal power, and continuing to support oppression of all forms. Hence, this type of behavior might be considered a logical consequence of the social and political decisions that we've made over the 50 years.

Now, that does not excuse individual choices to commit crimes. However, characterizing these actions as "sick" or "crazy" ignores the sytems that result in this kind of awful behavior. If wanted to get serious about preventing violence of this sort, we'd invest in primary prevention strategies, paid family leave (for a year for either parent), and research based early childhood programs like Early Head Start. Not to mention increasing family wage jobs so that families could afford to spend time caring for their children in the early years, rather than being forced to return to work ASAP, or hold 2-3 jobs, etc.

I just heard Stephen Baruchka on Alternative Radio, and he makes a very compelling point about the relationship of our our economic system to our population health (contrary to expectations, population health improves during recessions... possibly because during boom times, the wealth goes to such a small proportion of the population).

Tim,

Then notice, please, that I didn't say that.

Joe,

Most liberals I know believe that torture is wrong. They may or may not attach the word "evil" to it, but they have a clear sense of morality that it is wrong.

It's true that I don't talk about this with conservatives much, but my impression is that most conservatives have a situational view of the morality of torture. Isn't that a form of moral relativism?

fbear,

If it is up to the individual to decide what is and isn't wrong, then nothing really is wrong. It's all a matter of opinion. That's the essence of moral relativism.

I would venture to say most conservatives are not moral relativists.

So, you're saying that torture is always wrong?

Joe,

I haven't ever heard any liberals say that nothing is always wrong, that it's all subject to opinion.

Conservatives on the Supreme Court have justified executing innocent people, and that actual innocence is not necessarily a reason to overturn a death sentence. It's fair to say that most liberals would say that's morally repugnant.

Tim Young,

As I said, the comments I made applied to some, not necessarily all.

Do you believe that there is an absolute standard of morality that applies to everyone?

Or is it instead up to each individual to come up with whatever moral standard pleases them?

Tim Young,

Sorry, you are incorrect.

Abortion is definitely larger than any of the four issues you raise.

There are well over 1 million abortions in the US each year.

There is no famine claiming that many victims.

Ditto war.

Ditto pollution.

Ditto any single disease.

So, the enormity of the abortion issue comes into view when reviewing the stats.

<hr/>

I don't take personally the fact that you decline to discuss morality.

But such discussions will inevitably arise in a political context, since political questions are often centered on 'what is the right thing to do?' or 'how can we prevent this wrong from occurring?'

So to opt out when the word 'morals' pops up, is to leave politics to those who will discuss it.

i grew up with him. he was always a liar and still is. He spoke with me about two months ago. he is so full of crap. but we all knew that. ive known him since we were both 13 years old. tony you should be ashamed of yourself. you will be a toy in prison. get used to being some mans boy.they will be waiting for you

Joe, you are a trying soul. As to moral relativism, you are purposely "missing the point" dolt. We libs do not feel that morality does not exist. We DO, however, decry HYPOCRISY. Now, I might be a little less TrueBlue than some here. I irritated people by holding Dem feet to the bullshit test daily along with the horrors that ran for office on the Repug side. I LOVE listening to that man speak, but daily I force myself to resist that sway of charisma and possible erudition our President embodies.

Because I hate hypocrisy most of all.

THIS, Joey, is what the libs are talking about.

And you damned well know it.

This thread has been taken over by the trivialities of your utterances.

Thank you Curt, for bringing this back to what it was originally about! How easily we get off track and forget the real issue which is that this behavior was disgusting and he will surely pay for his actions. Karma is a bitch!

Karma's a bastard too. :)

Tim Young wrote:

"Link some sources if you dare, to back up all that"

Number of abortions in the US

Heart Disease 'Number 1 Killer' in US

Note that the 'number 1 killer' claims far fewer victims than abortion does each year.

If you know of any war, famine or environmental source that claims in excess of a million per year in the US, let me know.

rw wrote:

"We DO, however, decry HYPOCRISY. "

If , as many liberals believe, it is up to the individual to decide for himself what is and is not 'moral' at any given juncture, then there is no such thing as hypocrisy.

Because whatever the individual does is , by definition, congruent with what he has decided is acceptable to himself at the moment.

Hypocrisy only has meaning if the source of morality is not the individual, but rather an objective source of morality exists.

Joe,

Excellent job of huffing and puffing and blowing that straw man down!

Many, perhaps even most, liberals think that it is up to the individual to decide what is moral regarding certain issues. But not all issues.

My experience is that very few liberals would say that it's up to the individual to decide if torture is moral. They would say, no, it's immoral. In fact, it's fair to say that far more conservatives would take the position that it's up to the individual to decide if torture is moral in a particular situation.

Many liberals do, however, understand that our society is evolving, and that it can be tricky business to judge the morality of people in the past based on our current understanding.

In fact, our society, liberal and conservative alike, venerates people who did things that we now understand to be immoral. Many of the founders of this country owned slaves.

I call strawman abuse! He set 'im up and then he knocked him right down! I saw it!

The Joe White Corollary:

If, as many conservatives believe, it is up to the corporation to decide for itself what is and is not 'moral' at any given juncture, then there is no such thing as hypocrisy.

I know this family and what Tony did is appalling but I am writing because I am upset about the fact that there are two other children involved in this now. They are young and had moved on with their lives. It took months for them to come to grips with everything and now you have thrown this back in their faces. With everything being posted on the internet and his Facebook page, the kids had to relive this. But, now, they are dealing with all of their friends knowing. By putting all of this out there, these kids have been victimized again and it is just not right. I wish people would think before they speak (post).

One problem not being discussed is that neither party does a very good job of vetting or recruiting candidates, especially for races that are not seen as viable. Hence both parties end up too often with goofy and even despicable people campaigning in our names and sometimes even being elected.

1reader likes this

Good lord, don't know how I didn't hear about this earlier.

Pat Ryan,

Because this went public (which is actually old news to those of us who know the family as he has been in jail since March) and because someone posted Blue Oregon's link to this story on Tony's Facebook page (which his kids saw), these kids were subjected to this all over again, only this time it was not something they could keep to themselves to avoid embarrassment. I personally do not care what happens to Mr. Marino, but I do care about what happens to those young kids. I am sure you have no idea what this posting put this family through. I am just trying to let people know that others are involved.