The Oregon Chamber of Commerce has to be asked the question, why is it making common cause with extremist right wing causes to trash Oregon Schools? And why isn't the Oregon Chamber of Commerce denouncing the National Chamber of Commerce's invitation to hate speaker Glenn Beck?

Carla, I sincerely doubt that the Oregon State Budget has been slashed to the bone by our democrat-controlled legislature. Some examples:

State motor pool vehicles still being driven and used by single occupants.

Fully funded benefits programs for part time, seasonal state workers.

State employees still traveling on state time to centrally located training sessions in Salem instead of Salem regionalizing training requirements.

State hiring more workers with federal stimulus fund money while furloughing regular state employees.

Don't get me wrong Carla, we have a wonderful state - but our legislature punted big time and failed in controlling growth in the budget.

IRRELEVANT BLUSTER ALERT: time for me to get coffee

Kurt: you would bitch if you saw multiple state employees sitting in a rig WAITING while the other guy finished his task, whatever it was; and then the first guy sitting and WAITING while the second guy did his task. Eh?

Think it through. You would bitch about flunkies on junkets to the Capitol if you saw irrelevant personnel on ridealongs in the carpool lane on meeting days, eh.

You would bitch if Salem split out the sessions and then we had to pay per diem to state staff to get to THOSE.

I agree, all the GOOD state jobs are in Salem. All the really great ones that are, essentially, project workers pieces. So I could probably throw it in behind you to bust up that little cartel on the good jobs - send some up here to PDX so I can live the life I've built for myself AND have a choice of the better pay and better task set of those positions. I'm all for busting things out of Salem and spreading them all over.

Where do we start?

Freedom works Dick Armey was in my hometown Friday night and spoke in an auditorium to 50 people.

Wow! What a Star?

A lot of very, very small one or two person businesses are taxed as partnerships. All the income from the business is passed to the partners and taxed as personal income, both at the federal and state level. Many of those very small businesses don't turn a profit when they start, some fold before turning a profit. California is terrible when it comes to taxing very small businesses, and some people living there never incorporate because between taxes and annual fees it does not make financial sense. Changing the tax on partnerships in Oregon and adding $150 to the current 6-7% (their income is taxed as individuals) is going to be significant. This is a regressive tax that hits individuals who make the least a lot more than it hits the big corporations.

Marcello - depending upon the type of business, sounds like they need to have a CPA explain to them the different incorporations, eh? S-Corp has saved my ass. Till I took that status for my side work, I paid nearly one half of all I earned ... to the state. It may be that you know people who are not properly-statused for a reasonable tax advantage.

One thing that always gets overlooked in these discussions is that we're talking about NET TAXABLE income. Not gross receipts. Just the dollars that will be subject to taxation. After all deductions, adjustments and so on are taken off. So an entity that grosses $250K will not be taxed on the whole $250K, just on Net Taxable Income.

Another thing to mention is that we are talking about taxing the amount ABOVE $250K at the new rate -- not the amount up to $250K -- this is called the "marginal tax rate". So if you earn $100 above $250K your additional tax will be ONE DOLLAR! Why are folks crying in their beer about this?!

Marcello is alleging that little mom and pop will be hurt. KJ, can you address what Marcello is saying?

I, personally, find $150 far too high for any corporation to pay. With Macys already in bankruptcy, they might pack up their mannequins and head for Vancouver.

As for school funding, we should seek corporate sponsorships. Something like, "Kulongoski Elementary, brought to you by Chevron."

Actually rw, I think that the state motor pool is over inhventory by about 50%. Do away with purchase, maintenance, insurance and upkeep on all these semi-stationary rigs and pay state employees mileage to use their own vehicles.

Would i bitch about multiple employees sitting and watching another employee work? Hell yes. I ouwld not bitch about splitting sessions, nor would I bitch about moving jobs away from the political epi-center of the state. I would be a STRONG advocate for getting as many jobs out of Salem and into areas where the work and/or service is actually performed.

I'd also advocate for more teleconferencing, use of laptops and taking training resources to regional centers such as Bend, Medford, Roseburg and Ontarion instead of state employees in those areas schlepping over to Salem for training.

Surely they centralized all the most interesting jobs to Salem because of bitching about decentralization, frankly.

THAT is my point. As soon as it's decentralized, I can promise you someone else will start cranking against that and make a lot of noise in detail as to how centralization would save us shekels.

I'm thinking about how I had to transport kids to foster homes and return them to families. A standardized, maintained vehicle is what was needed for such a risky business as safeguarding and transporting someone's child.

Where does that 50% number come from? I'm interested to know better where you got that number. Could the overflow be b/c of destaffing programs?

I can read that corporations have been paying a $10 minimum--and it's time for them to step up and carry their fair share from now on.

Carla

I ask you this will all due respect...Under what circumstances does a C Corp pay the minimum under Oregon Law?

Kurt, which members of Ways and Means did you discuss your concerns with?

Or are you one of those who thinks blogging about such concerns are enough?

And if every one of your suggestions were put into practice by the Feb. session (after answering why there must always be 2 people in a state motor pool car to go to a rural area for some reason), would it fill the hole which would be left if the tax hikes are not affirmed?

And I agree with rw: "Where does that 50% number come from? I'm interested to know better where you got that number. Could the overflow be b/c of destaffing programs?"

Great idea peopl - Let's keep raising the taxes on corporations now that we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.

Perhaps Ted should look inside Salem and maybe find where he can save money instead. Heck, give me one example how he ever saved money besides cutting services. He seems to have plenty of $100K/yr jobs for people who throw a vote his way.

Kari, he said to reimburse the folks for using their own vehicles. Of course, we all know that does not reimburse the wear and tear of major parts going out at the requisite something-thousand miles of use... he would likely bitch at the level of reimbursement and wonder aloud why there was not a fleet of state-maintained, very basic cars that they were to drive (in aggregates of course!).

I guess I feel that from the tenor of the commentary, it's just bitching. It's not one of those, "Hey gang, why don't we try this?" moments. And even as I know I'm right that folks will complain no matter how it's done... he's not totally wrong that now might be the time to try a different tack, different conditions and all...

Steve, "look inside Salem"? You mean besides having all that government land which the state doesn't pay taxes on, the capital city should be contributing to state government?

And about this: "Heck, give me one example how he ever saved money besides cutting services. "

How did the Republicans do that when they controlled the legislature? Or do you think that the Gov., not legislative Ways and Means, makes the spending decisions for the State of Oregon?

Do you really expect high service levels from a government that cuts taxes?

Freedomworks and Americans For Prosperity are nothing more than an extension of the Kleptocratic wing of the national Republican party. We all recognize the same names that stole the country blind under 8 years of the Cheney regime. Their attacks on state and local tax bases have always been a mechanism to corral local subjects into their anti-tax jihad. Look at the names behind these innocuous-sounding front groups - they are all listed at sourcewatch.org:

ExxonMobil Koch Brothers C Boyden Grey American Petroleum Institute Dick Armey Steve Forbes etc.........

Let's hope, in the end, that it is not these outsiders' money that decides whether Oregon can keep full school years, maintain reasonable class sizes, and not release convicted felons into our neighborhoods.

Make no mistake about this battle - the election will be decided by how effectively those national interests that fought tobacco regulation, asbestos limits, and health care reform also deploy their resources in this little West Coast market.

Jim: "kleptocracy" is no longer novel, fresh, shocking or entertaining. It's old school. You could probably stop saying that.

Funny, RW, you should highlight that in my post -- it was just mentioned as an historical reference -- not meant to be shocking at all.

"Asked once why his revolutionary Republican comrades were consuming so much more federal pork than the Democrats ever did, the Texas conservative [Dick Armey] replied smugly: 'To the victors go the spoils.'

It seems that we just spent the last half of summer listening to Freedomworks inspired wackos talking about "death panels" that would "pull the plug on Granny". Now Freedomworks is working to pull the plugs on Oregon Grannies and Grampies because $150 a year is just too much for a poor business to pay.

Of course, all of this (predictably) avoids the issue of the transfer of wealth from the poorest Americans up to the richest 1%. It was endorsed by Obama both as a Senator and as POTUS.

But all of this is just "foot stomping," right? You'd be a fool and crazy person to suggest that because bankers and war profiteers paid to elect the guy that he's beholden to them.

And what goes on in the national Democratic Party is, of course, in no way related to what happens at the state level.

Right. Keep drinking the Kool Aid, Dems.

We all have a lot of great arguments for these tax increases.

But if the opposition spends millions spreading soundbites like "job-killing taxes" without an effective reply, we could have Measure 37 situation here all over again.

Jim, kleptocracy is still a shock-value term. It's not santized yet!

Urf. SanItized. :)

... and, Nick, "kool aid" is also dated. Find a new way to call Dems equivalent to the eight hundred people who died in a commune on a faraway African plot of land.

Urban Planning, someone needs to get out there and kill that 'job-killing' meme the opponents are spreading, We all know the election will depend on who does the messaging better, but the really ironic thing is that the opponents just made that "job-killing" stuff up - it's not backed by any research - they just got quotes from two of their ally economists. What a joke: Conerly and Pozdena.

The whole "job-killing taxes" campaign has no basis - let's see if we get some real journalism on this from the O. I'll help them with the "sources" cited on the measures' website.

Raising taxes always has consequences. William B. Conerly, PhD, a Portland-based economic consultant and former Senior Vice President of First Interstate Bank, estimated the personal income tax increases in HB 2649 would cost 30,000 Oregonians their jobs by 2015. Another leading Oregon economist, Randall J. Pozdena, PhD, examined the impact of the business tax increases on Oregon employment. He estimates that, over a 10-year period, the business tax increases would cost 22,000 to 40,000 Oregonians their jobs – on top of the 30,000 lost to the personal income tax increases.

Carla, of course it doesn't make sense. It's a Potemkin village.

Their only 2 sources for the "job-killing" mantra are Pozdena, from Cascade Policy Institute, and Conerly, a private Lake Oswego economist, frequently cited by Cascade.

Jim: Potemkin Village. Now THERE is a GREAT reference point! YES!

Literarily yours, rx

Won't repealing both bills result in an immediate loss of jobs? How many teachers, nurses, and cops would be laud off?

Actually Kari and RW I am not just bitching. I have been suggesting a draconian cut in thye state motor pool since first discussions on these pages back in February/March. The state spends an inordinate amount of money to purchase, insure, maintain and fuel these vehicles.

The trucks and vehicles used by ODOT, ODF and other agencies should be kept. Ditto the vans used by the universities and DHS. But the cars, mostly used single occupant can easily be replaced with mileage reimbursement. Also rw, I would not complain if the current IRS rate were used which is, I believe $0.55/mile. That more than compensates for fuel, insurance and wear on the rig.

Kari, the budget is not slashed to the bone when the state has not looked into the motor pool, the centralized training, full benefits for seasonal employees or the 3 separate state wide cell phone contracts that nobody can explain. Certainly some good belt tightening exercises have taken place. But by private company standards, there is still plenty of meat and fat before the busget is to the bone.