HD-30: Questions for Republican Shawn Lindsay
Kari Chisholm
The Oregonian's in-house rightie columnist, Liz Hovde, profiles Shawn Lindsay, the Republican that's been recruited to run against Rep. David Edwards:
The family-focused, churchgoing, volunteer-minded lawyer is an unpretentious political junkie. He's what people think of when they hear the words "compassionate conservative." He'll be talking about work ethic and personal responsibility one minute and then pour his heart out about the needs of people around us the next.
Why, he's just dreamy! (Dear Oregonian: Can we have a lefty columnist who writes glowing and booster-ish profiles of candidate recruits? Pretty please?)
He also tells Hovde that:
[H]e's irritated with current leadership and wants lawmakers to stop "taxing businesses out of Oregon."
Hey, Shawn Lindsay, about that. I've got some questions.
A major national anti-tax pro-corporate organization says Oregon ranks #49 in business tax burden. That's right: Oregon has the second-lowest business taxes in the nation. Washington, Idaho, and California all have higher taxes on business.
When you say that we're "taxing businesses out of Oregon", are you saying that there's a lot of Oregon businesses that are thinking of moving to #50 North Carolina?
I also wonder what you think of this quote. It's from Paul O'Neill, the former chairman of ALCOA and former Bush Administration Secretary of the Treasury. From his confirmation hearings in 2001:
"As a businessman, I never made an investment decision based on the tax code. ... [G]ood business people do not do things because of inducements, they do it because they can see that they are going to be able to earn the cost of capital out of their own intelligence and organization of resources."
In your role as a corporate attorney, would you advise your clients to uproot their business and move to another state - based purely on a 1.3% increase in their corporate tax rate?
In your day job, you advise "emerging" companies. Would you advise an emerging company to make a location decision based on the marginal income tax rate? And if so, would you advise them to locate in Washington, California, or Oregon?
How important is it to those emerging companies that the location they choose has good schools for the employees' kids, a higher-ed system that generates a strong workforce, and a working court system to help adjudicate corporate disputes? Are those things more or less important than whether the corporate income tax rate is 6.6% or 7.9%?
Liz Hovde says you're a "political newcomer" and a "raw talent" that "has some homework to do". I know BlueOregon may be seen as unfavorable ground, but hey, you're a smart guy - come on over and give us some meaningful answers. Show off some of that raw talent.
 |
More Recent Posts | |
Albert Kaufman |
|
Guest Column |
|
Kari Chisholm |
|
Kari Chisholm |
Final pre-census estimate: Oregon's getting a sixth congressional seat |
Albert Kaufman |
Polluted by Money - How corporate cash corrupted one of the greenest states in America |
Guest Column |
|
Albert Kaufman |
Our Democrat Representatives in Action - What's on your wish list? |
Kari Chisholm |
|
Guest Column |
|
Kari Chisholm |
|
connect with blueoregon
2:47 p.m.
Sep 28, '09
Kari, that's a fine post. Excellent, well-substantiated points all around. Thanks for the heads-up.
2:49 p.m.
Sep 28, '09
Hrm..what's up with the gravatar that doesn't find my gravatar though? My grinnin' mug oughtta be where that green tapestry is!
3:16 p.m.
Sep 28, '09
Dewd has got to be a masochist.
Sep 28, '09
"Why, he's just dreamy!"
Thanks, Kari, for the Brady Bunch/Shaun Cassidy flashback I so did NOT need!
But I agree that Hvode is a bit much, isn't she?
Sep 28, '09
"[H]e's irritated with current leadership and wants lawmakers to stop "taxing businesses out of Oregon."
A question for Mr. Lindsay:
Name one business that you know of personally that was "taxed" out of Oregon. Name one company whose bottom-line improved drastically due to avoiding Oregon taxes.
Sep 28, '09
These dudes have got to get a clue if they are going to talk about business. Not only is Oregon low tax (although I don't understand why y'all view that as bad and needing to be changed) and one of the most accommodating to startups that I know off, but it is also NOT ANTI-BUSINESSES( it's not pro-business either and that should change).
I am beginning to wonder if the GOP has anyone with fully functioning brain synapses.
4:23 p.m.
Sep 28, '09
Funny, Kari, that you make the joke about businesses jumping ship to #50 NC. The taxes-drive-away-business crowd should check how many Fortune 500 companies have HQs in Charlotte, and how many have HQs in Portland.
Sep 28, '09
Andrew, I don't know that you can really compare NC and OR that simply.
1. Population plays an important role: NC has roughly 3 times OR's population. 2. The Fed. Charlotte has long been an important banking center (spurred on by insane CEOs during the 90s). That, in turn, is an inordinate benefit to NC's business community. 3. It's central location along the eastern seaboard has made it a natural transporation center. That helps business in a pretty dramatic way.
Do compare OR to OK, IA, MS, KY and SC. These states offer a better gauge to how Oregon is doing. And I would argue that, within its peer group, Oregon fairs pretty well on many levels.
Sep 28, '09
And generic comments about Fortune 500's and all is not research, it's not thought leadership, it's just quaint.
What kind of industries are you talking about (usury laws in some states turn them into credit card/userer capitals); what is the HISTORY of that industry (believe it or not, "traditional seats of" this or that still do sometimes matter); et. al.
Sep 28, '09
So, who wrote: "COST study has methodological flaws that skew the numbers"
Anybody?
Why, Chuck Sheketoff here on Blue Oregon.
So the study is flawed and wrong and skewed, however we'll agree with the parts we like. What about other studies? Why cherry pick one study, call it flawed, cherry pick out the lines we like, and claim we did research?
I would like to think BO can manage better than this.
Sep 28, '09
Hovde is a passive, whiny, right wing shill. Each time she writes the words "Republican Party" feel free to insert the word "me." Don't let her part-time writer, I would home school if they only gave me a tax break to do it, facade fool you.
Sep 28, '09
Opening paragraph to a typical Hovde column:
Some Oregonians might think they have eaten a great heirloom tomato, but I bet you have your never eaten one that was created by a six-year old graphic artist. Thankfully, Riley Austin Phillips of the Fairweather Friends Virtual Charter School in Oregon City wants to make sure that you do.
Things have not always been so easy for Riley who was diagnosed with autism at age two by his parents Kathy and Scott, both 44. At about that time, Riley began to refuse to sit quietly during tailgate parties at OSU and Kathy and Scott knew that traditional public schools would not hold the answer for their "miracle" son.
"We started to think about kindergarten and realized that we were paying over $1800 a year in property taxes for our 1930's craftsman and all that we were being offered in exchange was a brick and mortar elementary school. Scott and I did not pull ourselves up by the bootstraps just so that our son would end up like Ramona Quimby. We knew something had to be done," Kathy recalls.
It was just about that same time that a farmer's market vegetable start and a new laptop gave Scott an idea......blah, blah, blah, blah....
Sep 28, '09
Gee, I heard a story on the radio this afternoon, and just found it on the Oregonian site:
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2009/09/daimlers_portland_truck_plant.html Managers of the Daimler U.S. truck operation, based in Portland and owned by Germany's Daimler AG, had planned to transfer manufacturing of Western Star commercial vehicles from Portland to Mexico. That move is on hold, as is the plan to transfer all Freightliner-branded military-vehicle manufacturing from Portland to North Carolina.
Daimler officials said in a written statement Monday that "cost disadvantages" of making trucks in Portland persist. Much depends, they said, on negotiating a new labor contract that they hope will change work rules and cut costs.
The radio story also spoke of being geographically near suppliers, or their market, or whatever.
Gee, this decision seems to be based on more than tax levels in Oregon. What a concept!
And I have a question for Shawn and any other candidate or legislator---when was the last time you visited a high school? Visit one in a city and one in a rural area. Visit a private high school also if you wish. Then be prepared to compare/contrast. Do all classrooms have enough chairs, desks or tables for all students? Are the teachers energetically engaging the students? What is the level of intellectual rigor in the classrooms?
Isn't it time to go beyond debates over taxes ? Or would some people not know how to discuss anything else?
Sep 28, '09
Lower taxes is like scripture to so many on the right. You could lower Daimler's taxes to 0% and their property and fuel taxes as well and the cost disadvantages would probably still exist.
Sep 29, '09
Kari, these are some great questions that you pose. I would remind the readers however, that ONE huge Portland based Corporation has recently moved to North Carolina, Freightliner. Now it wasn't all about Oregon state business taxes, I'm certain that the growing presence that they already had there, coupled with generous development credits, a right-to-work state and being closer to 70% of their suppliers and customers also had something to do with the decision.
Sep 29, '09
Anyone care to guess why Portland is one of the largest cities in the nation with the least amount of corporate headquarters of large companies, specifically fortune 500 companies?
8:59 a.m.
Sep 29, '09
pacnwjay, I'd say Portland-Charlotte is a far fairer comparison than many other cities. Ever been to NC? It's actually a lot like Oregon. They have beautiful beaches that can be reached just as easily as remote mountains. They have a similar spirit of preserving public spaces.
But, to not get off-topic: 1. Portland's population is around 550,000 and Charlotte's is around 680,000. Metro regions stack up to 2.1 mil against 1.7 mil, respectively. 2. Charlotte does have a strong banking center, and Portland used to have a bunch of big employers that aren't around anymore. I'm not sure what you were getting at. 3. Our central location along the West Coast (and between SF and Seattle) has made us a natural transportation center. That helps business in a pretty dramatic way.
So really, I think you gave a bunch of similarities and played them off as differences. I think you're selling us short, at the same time. Put Oregon in a peer group of all 50 states and I'd argue we fair pretty well on a number of levels (land use, health care reform, urban planning, local agriculture, etc). Job creation doesn't happen to be one of them right now.
And no, voting against the corporate tax will not make that better.
Sep 29, '09
I stand by my comments... as I was comparing Oregon to NC, not specifically PDX to Charlotte. A number of the F500 companies in NC are not based in Charlotte but the other large cities there. Charlotte has long been an east coast hub city, because it is central to the entire east coast...PDX is not central to the entire west coast. I have been to NC many times... used to have a client there. Beautiful place. I'm not sure I agree with you regarding their care for the land... never got that vibe. And I certainly didn't mean to come off as selling Oregon short! OR is a most wonderful place!
I guess my point was that taxes are not the most important reason for a thriving business community. There are lots of complicated reasons why businesses end up where they do. And despite the current recession, I think OR does a pretty good job. There could be improvements, but the fear of taxes simply isn't logical.
Sep 29, '09
Thank you for this: "I guess my point was that taxes are not the most important reason for a thriving business community. There are lots of complicated reasons why businesses end up where they do. And despite the current recession, I think OR does a pretty good job. There could be improvements, but the fear of taxes simply isn't logical."
2:57 p.m.
Sep 29, '09
Anyone care to guess why Portland is one of the largest cities in the nation with the least amount of corporate headquarters of large companies, specifically fortune 500 companies?
Actually, Jason, that's a question I've been pondering for around a decade now.
We have plenty of companies that grow up here into substantial regional companies - and then get bought out by their peers in other regions, in an effort to become national companies. Fred Meyer and US Bank come to mind.
I think it has something to do with the quality of life here. Business leaders here seem content to build major regional powers - and then, around the time they achieve success at that level, they'd rather sell the company and then rest on their laurels.
Folks in other regions seem to want to turn their regional companies into national and global powers. And maybe this is just local pride talking, but I think it's because hopping off the fast track seems less appealing in those other places.
Just a thought. An interesting puzzle to ponder, to be sure.
You got a theory? Would love to hear it.
Sep 29, '09
I think Oregon will always be at a disadvantage regarding big business just because of our location. We're in the Pacific Time zone, 4 hours behind the bulk of the financial centers in the US. PDX is 50 miles up the Columbia from the ocean and some ships are simply too big to traverse it anyway. Our population is relatively small and the Puget Sound area, San Fransisco Bay and LA/San Diego are almost always going to be more attractive to most businesses if they're looking for a west coast location.
10:41 p.m.
Sep 29, '09
Andrew,
Actually, in terms of banking First Interstate merged with Wells Fargo which parred its operations in Portland quite significantly to pay for the merger costs (something that is very common) and much of the operations were moved to California. US Bank merged with Firstar Bank, kept its name and is now based in Minnesota, thus the reason why there are less operations here in Portland.
Which other part banking industry could we be talking about?
Sep 29, '09
There was a time, long before the anti-taxers began trying to impose their articles of faith on us, that there were more corporate headquarters in Oregon. As was said above with the banks, so it was with other industries. Meier and Frank was bought out, so were timber companies, there was no requirement that the corporate HQ of the buyers be located here.
Sep 30, '09
@Kari -- Folks in other regions seem to want to turn their regional companies into national and global powers
You are assuming that the only way for the founders to sell is to be acquired by another company. What about a company where the founder is bought out and the new owners come in an take over. They then take it to the next level as the original entity. Just b/c a company is now a national player doesn't mean the founders are involved.
@riverrat -- I think Oregon will always be at a disadvantage regarding big business just because of our location.
Not sure that applies today with the internet driven economy. I am a manufacturing company and have not done a single order from the west coast this month.
<hr/>