Locals who had been waiting 3 hours and more to get in were pushed aside and forbidden entry in order to allow in late-arriving Washington County and Multnomah County Democrats, who arrived via Bus Project transportation.

That's one way to protect your representative from hearing his constituents -- lock many of them out, and stuff the meeting with your own folks.

The socialists were outnumbered about 4:1 outside. No idea what numbers were inside.

Look for more of the same leftist manipulation at the coming town halls. This is what the party of "tolerance" stands for.

Love the planning by the people who want to plan our national socialist health system: a space for 125 people when everyone expected a much larger turnout, and no backup plan.

Or disenfranchising the dissenters was the plan.

I'm glad Oregon is proving to be a more civil place than Tampa, or St. Louis, or Austin.

Those other places may have a large number of jerks who, having nothing of substance to say, just try to scream loud enough to drown out the voice of reason...but not here. In Oregon, the cooler heads prevail...so far.

I'm very proud of the level of Democracy in Oregon...so far. Let's continue to demonstrate how it's done.

(East of the Cascades, anyway. I note that Greg Walden doesn't seem to have scheduled ANY events. That's one way to prevent your constituents from making their views known, I suppose.)

So disruption in another state justifies line-jumping and crowd manipulation in Oregon.

Look for the same thing once we get national socialized medicine -- the politically influential will jump ahead.

And Carla, of course, doesn't care about fairness. More "tolerance."

"Locals who had been waiting 3 hours and more to get in were pushed aside and forbidden entry in order to allow in late-arriving Washington County and Multnomah County Democrats, who arrived via Bus Project transportation."

Bull. I was there and the only line cutting I saw was by some anti-healthcare change folks (the 16 year old who tried to get in two questions & a red shirted rude guy) who only did it because there was some confusion near the entrance door about where the line was.

And even the right-wingers reporting on the event on the Victoria Taft radio show admitted they were outnumbered 4 to 1 in the meeting (and I'd say that was a 'conservative' estimate).

If you attend one of these events don't make the mistake I did. I figured with our numbers we were well covered and didn't write down my name to get a number to get into the question lottery. I guess a lot of other people did the same, while each one of the conservatives must have put down their names, because they, although waaaay outnumbered, got in the majority of the questions to Wu.

The crazies out front with the Obama as Hitler poster (and 'Obama needs adult supervision' & 'Fire Pelosi") were passing out Lyndon Laroche materials & complaining about Obama's 'Nazi' healthcare program.

The red-shirted rude guy sat near the back and frequently shouted out short comments as Wu was speaking. Guess who Channel 12 (FOX) chose to interview after Wu was done speaking? Okay, you guessed it. The guy everyone was shushing.

I thought Wu handled himself really well.

Oh, one last thing. On the Victoria Taft show the guy who got in the 1st question to Wu said he was going to attend the next meeting (tomorrow). It wouldn't suprise me if a bunch of these anti-change people try to hit all the Oregon town halls.

The contingent of Wu constituents from Washington and Multnomah counties did NOT get to jump the line. We waited patiently in the sun and had some interesting conversations with other folks who like us did not make it into the town hall. Lots of sign-waving, singing and one-on-one conversations between citizens about the need for health care reform. My impression is that the crowd outside was mostly in favor of health care reform, some demanding single payer and others promoting the public option.

That anon is lying. 3 hours would have been 2:00 PM and at that time they were almost EXLUSIVELY DEMS(somewhere between 20 and 30 I would say). The irony is that I got there around 1:45 PM and some tea bagging right-wingers (a lot of them) got in there ahead of me pushing straight ahead. Granted that was to some extent because no on really knew from which door we would actually go. So when they decided to make the entry door from the very back then they had to reorient the line and everything got screwed but still those right-wingers (especially the guy who handed out his heritage foundation propaganda and his kid) got in way before me and many other dems who waiting a long time. Anon in post 1 you are lying and you know it.

Medicare is SO successful that it's deficit is SEVEN times that of Social Security. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7053462/

You guys are silly, and funny!

Stop projecting anon. The line jumping was done by the tea baggers. Crowd Manipulattion? Like what for example? Be specific? As far as disruption there was some on both sides but more from the tea baggers although having said I would say the disruptions were not that bad. Based on some of the youtube videos Mac's seem more tranquil. Oh and anon, and this goes for so many of you on the right, would once in your life apply the term "socialist" correctly? Just one time please?

Funny that the 'tea baggers' (what's with the slur?) are supposedly the fake protestors, and yet they aren't the ones being paid & bussed in with their pre-made signs. Is the astoturf greener on the other side of the fence?

Show proof that any dems were being paid to be bussed in? We know for a fact the "tea baggers" have been paid. Take Mr. Gladney for example in the St. Louis Townhall where he admitted said to Neal Cavuto on the one hand "“No one put me up to this." but then said "I’m unemployed, for one, and I was just there trying to...make an honest dollar " or as the conservative website newsbusters even said "The victim revealed that he was just there to earn some money and to be part of the process: "

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2009/08/07/victim-alleged-seiu-town-hall-assault-st-louis-interviewed-cavuto

more conservative projection it looks like. Of course we could include AMericans for Prosperity and all of their front groups as well as Freedomeworks and their role in the townhall meeting.

"I’m unemployed, for one, and I was just there trying to...make an honest dollar " or as the conservative website newsbusters even said "The victim revealed that he was just there to earn some money and to be part of the process

The above was misquoted above - Mr Gladney was NOT paid - he was selling Don't Tread on Me Flags outside the event, and beaten as his reward... Once again - quoted out of context, and twisted - I guess in the case of blue folks, the end ALWAYS justifies the means.

What troubled me most about my experience listening to people in line is that those who are falling for these pathetic lies concerning euthanasia were these little old laddies. Sad. Truly sad that right-wing, Republicans and the shills in the health insurance industry have so poisoned the rhetoric with just extreme blantant lies over and over again.

Steve Pearlstein has a good article on this here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/06/AR2009080603854.html

Hey Carla;

Social Security will go broke by 2017. Medicare will go broke in 2018, Massachusetts health care is facing massive cuts and denial of services to patients.

Between 2037 and 2075, the Social Security program is projected to run deficits totaling $30 trillion

The medicare shortage is seven times the size of the one that Social Security faces and nearly four times the entire federal debt.

The interest on the national debt will require $9 trillion dollars in NEW borrowing over the next 10 years

And you want goverment to take over healthcare?

Why not, they have a great track record and running things...into the ground!

Don't tread on Me!

10th

Folks, according to dictionary.com, this is the definition of socialism,

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

So, anon is saying anyone who disagrees with anon is advocating government ownership of land, capital, and means of production?

40 years ago, it was popular in certain circles to call anyone who didn't agree with the Nixon wing of the GOP to call opponents "Commie" or "pinko". A friend used to joke about that whenever he saw a pitcher of pink lemonade (making lemonade from frozen concentrate was very popular back then). He would say, "AH! Leninade!".

What does such name calling solve? There was a woman interviewed on NPR last week who was very proud of organizing a TEA party in Texas and also organizing the yellers at her Dem. Cong. town hall meeting. In the letters segment today, NPR was castigated for not forcing the woman to give evidence that "the majority of the people in this cong. district oppose socialized medicine".

Last fall, a majority of people in that cong. district re-elected a Democratic congressman, yet they agreed with this woman who is obviously of Republican bent?

Rosie, there was a TEA party (Taxed Enough Already?) event on the Oregon capitol steps. It is no insult, only descriptive, to say the anti-health care protesters (the folks anon seems to associate with) appear to be the same folks who supported the TEA party. Type TEA PARTY into the Google window here on BO if you don't know about that event.

Anyone who paints a Hitler mustache on the picture of the current US president isn't really interested in serious dialogue. Maybe that is a person who has a tough time dealing with change. Maybe such a person can't deal with the fact the president is younger than we have had in a long time, and not white Anglo Saxon.

10th Mountain,

Care to cite your sources for those estimates based on today's means to project into the future?

As for running what into the ground? Name me 5 Federal Government programs that have gone bankrupt. I can name you quadruple the number big and small businesses.

Then again, corporations do not have a Treasury to print money ;)

BTW, thank you for mentioning Romneycare in Massachusetts, that will be a major weakness if that silver-spoon fed, Gordon Gekko-wannabe motherfucker runs in 2012.

I look forward to it.

Excuse me. That was not misquoted at all. That was quoteed DIRECTLY From the CONSERVATIVE newsite newsbusters

GLADNEY: No- no, sir. No one put me up to this. This was of my own free will there to just try to make- you know, I was- I’m unemployed, for one, and I was just there trying to- you know, make an honest dollar and try to learn something about- you know, these type of gatherings and things- you know. But- I mean, I just don’t think anyone should have to go through what I went through- at all.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2009/08/07/victim-alleged-seiu-town-hall-assault-st-louis-interviewed-cavuto

The words GLADNEY used was(not the repacked spin Newsbusters)

GLADNEY Well, let’s see. Let’s start from the beginning- about- about 8:30- 8:45, we were- I was setting up actually to pass out the ‘Don’t Tread on Me’ flags.

thats 'pass' not 'sell'

Also there is no proof that the unions starting anything. The infamous video starts out with unions guys lying down. Also isn't it kind of ironic that Gladney didn't have health insurance don't you think?

Oh and its the height of projection for anyone on the right to accuse anyone of being for the ends justify the means especially after these 8 years of Cheney & Rove who are the epitome of the ends justify the means mentality

Ryan;

Government programs never go bankrupt. Leviathan just gets larger and larger taking more and more taxes from people and more and more freedom until their is nothing left but misery and tyranny.

Our founding fathers understood this, were passionate enough to be willing to die for that freedom from tyranny and fought a war over it.

As for my sources you merely need to read the Social Security Trust fund report.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html

10th

If conservatives had a cogent argument against health care reform, they would be making it. Tellingly, we get incredible lies, hysteria, and screaming rage without detectable cause. We'll see how this plays out, but I suspect that this will ultimately be good for our side, as normal people are turned off by this.

I currently live in Silicon Valley. Single-payer is an incredibly popular concept here, among potential entrepreneurs who are hesitant to leave their current job and forgo their current health care plan to start their own company, and among start-up companies dealing with the expense and overhead of providing health care. The venture capitalists are for it as it simplifies company start-up. If the views here are in sync with those of business professionals across the country, I don't think that the screamers will prevail.

Dear 10th Mountain:

I've been hearing the hysteria that Social Security is failing and will go bankrupt Real Soon Now In the Next Five Years since I was a teen in the early 70s.

I'm now in my 50s. These days, I don't give a lot of credence to the same hysterical chant I've been hearing for 30 years.

Steve--I know a lot of people who would go self-employed in a heartbeat if we had a good, government-backed health insurance plan instead of paying huge amounts for individual insurance plans. I'm all for a government health plan--one of my writer friends had a heart incident at a convention in Montreal. He compared his treatment there to what he would have had in the US, and Canada came out way ahead in the comparison. And it was cheaper for much the same thing, because he didn't have to deal with five different entities all running bills!

The mess that is the current medical billing system adds to our costs these days. Hugely so.

I find it ironic and mildly amusing how protesters bemoan alleged "leftist manipulation" and "disenfranchising the dissenters". I'm sure they miss the days of the previous administration where audience members had to be pre-screened and approved beforehand to ensure soft-ball questions shield the former Prez from any difficult ones. I'll bet none of the protesters today saw anything wrong with that.

Carla, I love how Sal depicts the obama hitler picture as anti-immigrant. That's awesome. And JRW I'm not sure If you work? But the reason these magical programs never go bankrupt, is taxes.Crazy notion huh. The government gets about %45 of my yearly income. I wonder what income tax was in the 60's and 70's? Oh and Carla what did you think about Cindy Sheehan? What's that she's a hero? Hmm.. because she thinks like you do. So do the same rules apply to both political parties? Or do you just enjoy being an arrogant hypocrite? Let me know.

KPAM has a truck?

I didn't get to McM until about 4 so never had a shot at getting in. Good crowd though, enormous range of opinion represented and lots of very spirited, but generaly civil, debate. Made me proud to be an Oregonian. Seemes to me the best organized group was the anti-LNG contingent. Just goes to show- "all politics is local".

Ian,

From 1950 through 1963 the top federal marginal tax rate was 91% (except for 1952 & 1953, when it was 92%). In 1964 it went down to 77%, then to 70% in 1965, where it (mostly) stayed through 1980. It went up in 1968, 1969, & and 1970. In 1981 it went down slightly, then went down to 50% in 1982.

1982 also saw a terrible recession, and high unemployment. The high unemployment continued through the next year, and the federal debt ballooned.

My 1988 the top federal marginal rate was only 28%, which bumped up to 31% during the George H.W. Bush administration in 1990.

The top rate was boosted 39.6% in 1993, during Clinton's first year, and unemployment dropped every year throughout Clinton's eight years, and the federal deficit dropped, and was very small in Clinton's last year.

The George W. Bush tax cuts dropped the top marginal rate to 35%.

So, we had prosperity with marginal rates in the 70% - 92% range, and a melting-down economy with 35% rates.

"Medicare is SO successful that it's deficit is SEVEN times that of Social Security. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7053462/"

Carla et al, can't understand what that means.

This shows that progressives really are that stupid. So as SS Medicare and Medicade fall into the fiscal abyss their effort to pile on national health care will be relentless. And some how down the road funding for the massive government they demand will magically appear.

Amnesty, Heatlh Care, Cap and Trade.

Brilliant Blue.

Oh, speaking of taxes, during World War II, the top marginal rate increased twice, first from 81% to 88% in 1942, then to 94% in 1944.

George W. Bush and the current G.O.P. cut the top marginal rate in 2003, the year the current Iraq war started.

Ooh, lookie! Seems like some people have confused BlueOregon for a town hall meeting, and are trying to shout it down!

Fortunately, the line here is orderly and soundless. Why don't you all go back to trying to phonebank the Amish?

Rosie asks: Funny that the 'tea baggers' (what's with the slur?) ...

Because Carla et al. think its funny that those ignorant backwater Republicans don't even know that tea bagging means dipping one's testicles in another's mouth. It a progressive way of inferring conservatives suck balls.

You people know you're losing the argument. Hence the defensiveness; hence the bussing in of shills; hence the denigration of your opponents. The American people are smarter than you think - you're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

(East of the Cascades, anyway. I note that Greg Walden doesn't seem to have scheduled ANY events. That's one way to prevent your constituents from making their views known, I suppose.)

Well of course he isn't having any. He's on an international jaunt with his buddy, Boner. No time to answer to Oregonians. http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/

10th Mountain

You're either lying or ignorant. From the latest CBO report on SS, SS will pay full benefits all the way to 2037 according to the latest projection.

The deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets until reserves are exhausted in 2037, at which point tax income would be sufficient to pay about three fourths of scheduled benefits through 2083.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html

Mr. Gladney fell over onto the ground, got up, walked around and didn't appear to suffer any injury. It was only later that he decided he was 'assaulted.' Just another conrepub playing the victim card just like they do over and over and over again.

Why are progressive Democrats showing up at the Town Hall meeting? To protect our interests plain and simple. That's what democracy is all about. Republicans, you did get your clocks cleaned in the last two election cycles and we have a Black President and a Democratically controlled Congress. I know the repubs have a giant mental breakdown every time a Democrat gets elected but just deal with it.

How can you hope to fight Osama Bin Laden and AlQueda on the streets of Salem with your cache of assault rifles if you can't even deal with President Obama and Congress sanely?

A full and honest discussion of the issues at hand between republicans and democrats would be nice. However, because of the Right's insistence on lying and lynch mob mentality by people largely not from the Congresspersons district, a genuine dialog is not possible.

What I want to know is, how do they think this is going to help their cause, whatever that is besides total political destruction? These are worse than the tactics they and their friends in the conservative media infrastructure routinely deplore when employed by the Left.

Oh, I get it. It's okay if your a republican.

Anyway, I think such deplorable behavior will result in a lessening of their influence, not a gain.

It's the tyranny of a minority within a minority and it will not stand.

Seems no one in mentioning that Wu got a standing ovation from his constituents after the meeting.

Even today's edition of the Oregonian reads like a Fox news report

Report from MSNBC, a tea-bagger brings his gun to the presidential town hall in New Hampshire. That's how they promote free speech.

We pay for our current health care system in so many ways:

1. Our health insurance premiums (if we have health insurance).

2. Our car insurance premiums.

3. Our taxes, which pay for the bloated justice system needed because of the way we pay for health care in this country.

4. Increased costs for products and services because of 1 and 3 above.

Ian, m'dear--

The odds are pretty good that my family pays more in taxes than yours.

Nuff said?

I've been earning paychecks since the late 70s. The percentage of Social Security taken out of my check is still pretty much the same as it ever was--and for a portion of that time, I was also self-employed and paying my own Social Security contribution. I think I have a decent (and probably better) grasp of how much of my taxes goes to Social Security.

Given what it costs these days for health care out of my paycheck, I'm figuring that government-backed health care might actually save me some money.

"Why don't you all go back to trying to phonebank the Amish?"

Thanks for the laugh, Admiral! Given the current level of "debate" on this subject, we're going to need all the humor we can get!

The faith community is circulating a petition to call for civil discourse in our town hall meetings. Sign on here: http://tinyurl.com/callforcivildiscourse

Posted by: anonymous | Aug 11, 2009 8:33:36 AM

You people know you're losing the argument. Hence the defensiveness; hence the bussing in of shills; hence the denigration of your opponents. The American people are smarter than you think - you're not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

The best part about this comment is that I have no idea if it's from someone in favor of health care reform or opposed. Sums up this thread perfectly.

I arrived at the McMinnville Police Station at 3:00 and the line had about 50 people in it at that time. By the time the door opened at 4:30, people were lined up down the street. No one was given priority to get into the meeting except the press and they took no seats. The capacity of the room was 120 I believe so of course, those who came later were not able to get in.

I appreciated the process used by Congressman Wu's staff - if you wanted to speak, sign in, and you would be issued a number. The editor of the McMinnville newspaper drew the numbers and it seemed to come out pretty even in the positions that folks discussed. There were a few times when each side made a fuss, but overall people were respectful of each other and let Wu respond to the questions. I believe the only question he did not answer and raised the greatest ruckous was whether or not he had read the bill (of course, there are 5 bills at the moment, so not sure to which one they were referring).

While standing in line, I decided to not get into an argument with people whom I clearly disagreed, including one of the candidates that will be running for Wu's seat. I support single payer strongly. What it afforded me was the opportunity to actually interject some thoughtful comments that are usually not heard because people are trying to prove their point.

The people surrounding me were part of those who have gotten caught up with the misinformation the insurance industry is feeding them. When one mentioned she didn't want socialized medicine I pointed out to her that the Medicare she was receiving was socialized medicine. I also had the opportunity to point out that we already have rationed care where a clerk in the insurance company has the power to decide whether or not I receive the care my doctor wants me to have.

On single payer, I was able to point out all the ways we pay for medical insurance besides just the health care: on our homes, we have to purchase injury insurance in case someone gets hurt on our property; on our cars, same thing, in case we hurt someone or someone hurts us; businesses have to purchase workers' compensation insurance in case they get hurt on the job - so we are paying and wouldn't it be nice to know if we are injured, or sick, or just want to go in for a routine checkup, we wouldn't have to worry about being denied care.

And a third point I was able to make quietly was that I would retire today if I didn't have to pay an exorbitant price for insurance premiums. Many of us would and then our jobs would be available for so many people who are currently unemployed. Seems like a win win to me.

Bottom line I was able to get support for the idea that our current system is broken and needs to be fixed and I don't know all the answers, but I hoped that people would be civil with each other and at least have the courtesy to listen even if we don't agree with each other. Isn't that really what America is about?

So I left the hall feeling that that was pretty much the tone. I feel sad that the insurance industry would rather pit one American against another just to protect their billions. Someone will get hurt before this is over, but I hope Americans will begin to see through their scheme. After all, at $1.4 million a day in lobbying expenses and millions more for CEO compensation, and this campaign to stop a real health care policy that works for America, we should be proud of seeing our premium dollars at work. Bend over and say Ahhhhh!

The Larouche/Hitler people were on the campus of PSU beginning around May/June with their disgusting Obama-Hitler signs. It literally made me sick to my stomach. It's unfortunate that these people just can't seem to stop drinking the Kool-aid.

A caller on Lars Larson's show today (Wed.) complained that the Oregonian story hadn't covered the bused in people who were put into Wu's Townhall meeting ahead of residents who had been waiting in line. He said a woman told him she had been number 78 in line, that she knew it because she had made 'them' count, and that she wasn't allowed in because people bussed in were put in ahead of her.

Total bull, but of course Lars lapped it up.

Funny how nobody had a problem with Bush's picture with a Hitler mustache. Weird. I wonder why not? Hypocrites.

No Body cut the front of the line going up the main steps to the building and the police station. I stood there for a hour solid telling people where the end of the line was and how many people would get in. there was a policeman standing at the top of the steps also watching for gate crashers. NONE anon! All the repubs have are lies, lies lies. 1 woman told me that my info was just to lead her astray, but she stayed there in the shade and did not get in, and would not have made the first 120. i would say it was 50/50 for and against health reform there on the sidewalk. alot of people from other than mac.

<h2>mostly people were respectful.the larouche brain washed 4 some didn't know what/who they even stood for.they wouldn't discuss their poster or any subject. brain dead. maybe moonies. hope they at least get paid. sorry.</h2>