Better yet, build a baseball stadium where the Coliseum is with the capacity for MAJOR league baseball. Get MLB in here and you really do have an economic stimulus.

Carla,

If there were any baseball fans they should have spoken up and they had every opportunity to speak up. I sat through meeting after meeting and not once did I see a Portland Beavers cap. Not one single time. Nobody got screwed except maybe the people of Portland for letting a small group of architects and architectural fans run the debate on Memorial Coliseum.

Soccer is boring. Last nights game was a 0-0 tie. What was the point of that game, both in a literal and figurative sense?

Have you ever actually BEEN to a Beavers game, Carla? I have...an empty cavernous stadium with a few pockets of people spread over the 20,000 seats. Its a little disingenuous to try and blame Paulsen for tarping off the top seats, its not like anyone would ever use them. And please, lets not try to act like the All-Star game is analogous with a normal Beavers game...there's no comparison on attendance.

I find it funny that only now do people become 'baseball fans' when they couldn't give a toss for so many years.

"Meanwhile, the big glass box of uselessness still sits at the Rose Quarter in all it's architectural glory. A giant, shiny chotchke collecting dust and taking up space."

Stuff like this, minus the specific details, is exactly what they said about Victorian homes and the all the wonderful iron-fronted commercial buildings everyone loves downtown. In fact, almost exactly.

Last night, loud 15,000 people watch the Timbers draw the Islanders.

15,000

enough said.

MLS to PDX.

Carla, I agree with much of what you posted. Triple A baseball, properly promoted and linked to the community is fun, a community asset and a good money maker. It seems that the Beavers have had a long roller coaster ride existence in the Portland area.

MLB is fun, exciting and available a short drive up I-5 in Seattle. MLS is calling to Portland and the Timbers Army are listening. As evidenced last night (I watched the match on FSNW); the USL is a pitiful league and nowhere near the talent/attraction level of MLS. That is not to say that MLS is yet ready to take the world stage with the likes of EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A and Laliga. They still have a long way to go.

The PNW rivalry of Vancouver-Seattle-Portland from the old NASL days would be great. The draw would be an instant fan base solidifier for our region. I do not know if Seattle's meteoric rise in their first year back in the top league is sustainable; but I do know that if Portland is able to register even half the fan base that they will be more financially successful than the tripple A club.

Futbol (soccer to us North American heathens) has quite the following in several major US cities. The fan base is from international expatriots, immigrants as well as former Club players who are grown and have kids now of their own. For the dollar, it is a great sports entertainment value.

Full disclosure - NONE of the above is an endorsement for the use of public money to finance the deal or stadium.

I think that the baseball fans got caught in the crossfire between renovating PG&E Park, wanting a newer, more fan friendly stadium and the uproar over proposed use of public funds. Their staying on the sidelines has perhaps been misinterpreted as not caring?

I have friends that love the Beavers and who want to see them stay in Portland proper. for those who want a new stadium, I suggest they look at the finished product that the Louisville Riverbats built along the Ohion River about 10 years ago. That could be a model of success.

I usually enjoy (and agree) with most of the content here at Blue Oregon, but Carla, your propensity to oversimplify and dismissive attitude is really off-putting.

The Timbers regularly fill up PGE park and are ranked as one of the top minor league teams in the country -- the Beavers draw depressingly meager crowds, so why should they get a brand new stadium on the waterfront?

I understand your frustration with Memorial Coliseum, but your vague argument (that I've heard too many times already) to knock it down because you feel it's ugly isn't really productive or useful. I would much rather entertain thoughtful proposals based on facts and realistic outcomes.

Carla, I'm afraid you're way off.

Memorial Coliseum is vastly more useful, even with the Rose Garden next door, than a baseball stadium on that site would be.

Memorial Coliseum hosted over 150 events last year - more than the Rose Garden. A baseball stadium on that site would play host to less than half the amount of events.

I'm all for soccer in Portland. I'm all for minor-league baseball in Portland. But neither of these, directly or indirectly, should contribute to the destruction of an architectural landmark like the Coliseum.

I think it's really unfortunate that baseball can't co-exist at PGE Park along with soccer. But if the Beavers are moved to a stadium in Beaverton, I don't think Portland baseball fans are getting "screwed", as you put it at all. The stadium would be on the MAX line, and it would help re-invigorate The Round area that has languished for years. Plus, Beaverton is part of the Portland metro area. It's not like they'd be moving to Siberia.

And again, the Coliseum is not collecting dust. You are just flat-out wrong about this (no disrespect intended in saying that). It's the busiest building in the Rose Quarter, the one with the most history, the one with the most architectural pedigree.

Again, no offense to you personally, but I find it distasteful to write a blog post or column admitting you don't follow things closely but then still manage to stick you opinion out there. Lots of people are reading Blue Oregon, and I cringe at them getting such misinformation about Memorial Coliseum.

It's one thing if you and others out there aren't quite the contemporary architecture enthusiasts that I and some of the people involved with Friends of Memorial Coliseum are. But I urge you to take a harder look at the circumstances: a very busy arena with some of the highest historic value of any building in the city.

What's more, please keep in mind that throughout history, people have had a tendency to dismiss the recent architecture of the last 50 years, only to enthusiastically support preservation of 100-year-old buildings. In other words, if you're not protective of the Coliseum, I think perhaps maybe your kids, grandkids and great grandkids will be.

"I have watched from afar" "I confess to being less than engaged" "I've remained blissfully unaware" "It seems like" "I wonder"

But here's 6 paragraphs on it anyway.

@Brian Libby

They weren't protective of Yankee Stadium and it actually had history to it unlike the Memorial Coliseum.

15K at PGE Park last night. If you took a stroll through the concourses you would understand why it needs remodeling to handle 20K. It was a 10 minute wait to get a hot dog.

All we need is a triumphal comment from Torridjoe (during work hrs of course, must not be any work to do in the CoP fire bureau) about how this is just such a SWELL deal for PDX and we are done.

This deal of course comes from the same group of stooges that gave us: -the tram (rimshot) that went $42m over budget -tax breaks to real estate developers for hulking towers in S waterfront district for OHSU biotech jobs that have yet to materialize -soviet-style condo bunkers in otherwise nice SE PDX neighborhoods

Apparently giving corp welfare to a guy whose Dad & cronies wrecked the economy is a higher priority for our "leaders" than adequately funding PPD or doing something about exploding unfunded fire and police pension liabilities.

If MLS is so hot why are most teams losing $$. If it is great why do we need to put up any $$.

Let him pay for it with Daddy and cronies money that they made during the last gilded age.

Will they rename PGE park Goldman Sachs park?

MLS is not a long-term viable model. The product is anything but "major league" - MLS does not have and will never get the best players in the world. That the City of Portland let themselves get conned with the "the stadium can only be used for soccer" scam is ridiculous. They should have balked at the demand that the stadium couldn't be shared with the Beavers. Baseball fans are getting the shaft - especially when MLS is completely shut down within 5 years. This whole thing is stupid and insane.

MLS will not survive.

I surfed in an noticed the slogan: BlueOregon is a place for progressive Oregonians to gather 'round the water cooler and share news, commentary.

Progressive, really? After reading this column I'm not so sure. You fancy yourself a columnist, worthy of taking up space in this blog/paper, yet by your admisson: "I've remained blissfully unaware of the little details of this fracas" Hmmm. Something doesn't add up here. May I suggest that anyone with a real progressive brain understands that the most popular sport in the world has truly begun its inexorable march into the conscience of previously resistant America? The writing is all over the wall and so many reamain blissfully unaware. No wonder it doesn't compute to you that MLS has more gravity than AAA Baseball. Have you looked at what's going on in Seattle this summer with the Sounders or are you under a rock?. Here's some more info: I am a New England Revs fan. Never cared for Soccer until I understood it. Now I love every second and it's my favorite sport. I also have season tix to a minor league baseball team. Wow I like both, what a concept. Great time it is -baseball- but I'm not riveted to the game like I am in Soccer. Same goes for me at the Red Sox. Carla, I suggest you do some real fact finding and maybe some soul searching about your profession. Remember your words in 2011 when the Timbers metamorphosis is complete and they take Portland by storm. You can remind yourself about the Beaver's comparison and then feel a little silly in the process. PS: MLS is not going to fold. I've read a lot of misinformed stuff about MLS from writers lately but almost none suggest the league will fold now. Your suggesting it might really shed light on the depth of your ignorance of the subject.

kraftownzrevs:

Are you Jeremy Wright of mls2pdx?

Take away Paulson with all of his money and where would this talk of uprooting the Beavers and tearing down the Memorial Coliseum be going? Nowhere.

As I've heard it described, even with modifications intended for PGE park to make it suitable for MLS, it's not exactly going to make it great there for that sport; close-set, minimal wide seating on the east wall where none currently exists.

Maybe instead of AAA baseball, MLS should be the sport for which a perfectly designed, brand new stadium is built out in Beaverton. This city has got the room for it and doesn't have significant architecture standing in the way. I hope though, that they don't put a stadium near the Round, on the former site of the Westgate Theater. That probably wouldn't help Beaverton join its separated parts into a cohesive downtown.

Let the Beavers stay at PGE park.

Carla:

I guess baseball fans were too busy going to games to be loud enough

Bob T:

My guess is that they felt that the Beavers weren't going to leave town either way -- they'd either stay in PGE Park or move to a new stadium somewhere in the city.

Carla:

...even though Paulson tarped off big sections of the bleachers and wouldn't sell tickets for those seats. Curious.....

Bob T:

I think that was done because there were enough seats for the usual-sized crowds, even if over 12,000 or so. I don't know if they were removed for the All-Star Game, but I did hear it was filled. That was a game that would have requited the tarps to be removed.

And now we hear from:

Garrett:

15K at PGE Park last night.

Bob T:

But there only about what, twenty Timbers games per season, whereas there are 70 Beavers games. If you miss a baseball game there are 69 others. If you miss a home football game there are only seven others. With soccer, about 19 or something. The few games, the more likely the crowd will be larger.

By the way, for those who think that games bring economic activity to the area of the stadium (hey, let's go to Starbucks, or that tavern, or go to McDonalds over there), there are 70 home baseball games and nothing close to that when it comes to soccer.

Garrett:

If you took a stroll through the concourses you would understand why it needs remodeling to handle 20K. It was a 10 minute wait to get a hot dog.

Bob T:

Then another stand or two needs to be added, and I think now these items can be bought from the vendors in the stands. Maybe not too many, but this can be improved for the future (and I'm not talking about the service for the expensive seats).

But I'm still wondering -- where was the "progressive", corporate-welfare-hating protests these past few months? The freeenterprise people couldn't do this because there are only about 17 of us here in Portland. Well, so much for that Big Lie of the left hating corporate give-aways. When their own favorite mayor (he's on a T-shirt, with Obama - "Gay Mayor - Black President"). Let that be a lesson to you when it comes to casting votes for such shallow reasons.

Bob Tiernan Portland

Why should Portland taxpayers pay for (through an urban renewal district or otherwise) and play host to all the region's activities or sports facilities. We shouldn’t! The Beaverton Beavers has a good sounding ring to it. In that the Beavers have a niche market audience of only about 5000 to 6000 per game, Portlanders ought to be thanking Beaverton (originally known as Beaver Town) for their willingness to find a home for the team.

Hi Carla, you really do yourself and your readers a disservice by not taking the time to inform yourself about this topic. It's great that you live in Blissville, but maybe a more accurate name would be Ignoranceville. You seem outraged, but not enough to know what is going on.

there was an article in the O a few days ago about maybe building a AAA stadium on the site of the old Westgate theater in Beaverton (property which I believe is owned by City of Beaverton & Metro.) It's even on thhe MAX line and there's a parking structure nearby. I for one would be thrilled to ride my bike about 15 minutes from home to see a ball game in my town. Enjoy your zillion dollar MLS castle "Boondoggle Stadium" Portland, I'm rooting for a sensible plan to finance a nice multi-use stadium in Beaverton.

BTW, am one of those folks who do attend several Beavers ballgames each year, including last Friday when we had Dems night at PGE Park with ~250 enthusiastic Dems from Washington/Multnomah/Clackamas Counties. Lots of local electeds attended, and even Jefferson Smith joined in for a base race! Go Beaverton Beavers at Westgate Stadium!

I need a new laptop thatt does not have stticky keys...

the big glass box of uselessness still sits at the Rose Quarter *** collecting dust and taking up space.

How does a venue that draws in over 150 events per year qualify as "useless?" How many days a year does a public building need to be busy before it's "useful?" And if the Coliseum is "useless," doesn't that make the (less busy) Rose Garden even MORE useless? I mean, if the Coliseum is collecting dust, the Rose Garden must be collecting a whole lot more.

I suspect that a baseball stadium at the Memorial Coliseum site would be at least as busy, if not more because of it's location.

Yeah, but if we replace a busy building with one that's equally busy ... what's the point? Why not just put a few million into fixing the venue we've already got, instead of tens of millions to build a brand new one -- with fewer seats -- in the name of drawing an extra dozen events per year? (And if we do want more events there, how about just going a better job marketing the Coliseum to bring in that extra one or two events per month).

It seems like, from my perch high atop Blissville, that a bunch of baseball fans in the greater Portland area just got screwed.

Right now, it looks like Beaverton's seriously interested in a baseball stadium at the Round, so how are baseball fans in the greater Portland area "screwed"? So they have to go to Beaverton instead of downtown Portland for the minor league team ... seems to me that's a pretty good deal for westsiders, and better parking for everyone. And if you're going by MAX, it's an extra fifteen minutes when you're coming from the east side, but fifteen minutes time savings for anyone coming in from Hillsboro. Plus, it might be a better venue.

Hard to see any losers here, except (as usual) the taxpayers who have to pony up money for these publicly-funded-arena schemes.

2. So it doesn't count if they might have actually sold those seats (The All Star Game) had they not been blocked out? What could be the possible reason for that...?

Carla, I've said it once but I'll repeat it. At the Timbers match last night there were close to 15K there. At the Timbers game against Seattle it was a sell out at over 16K. It was a 10 minute wait to get a hotdog/beer/coke and just as long a wait to get into a bathroom.

I attended the Mariners game there where they sold out the full stadium capacity at over 20K. I missed 3.5 innings to get a beer and go to the bathroom. The reason they cap seats at 16K is because the concourses are not wide enough, there aren't enough concession stands, and there aren't enough bathrooms to handle 20K.

Last night at close to 15K the lines from all of the concession stands went from the stands to the back wall of the concourse. This is a problem when people need to also walk through the concourse to reach a destination.

I realize others have sold more tickets. Think of it this way. Paulson is smart enough not to piss off his clientele enough by overselling what his venue can hold. I'd like him to have a talk with the McMenamins brothers about customer service and teach them a thing or two about how to run the Chrystal Ballroom.

Terry Parker:

Portlanders ought to be thanking Beaverton....for their willingness to find a home for the team.

Bob T:

Oh c'mon, it's not Beaverton is making a sacrifice for us or anyone else. It will involved taxpayer-funded giveaways and privileges.

Bob Tiernan Portland

Baseball? Talk about a borefest. How can anyone sit there watch this snoozer for +3 hrs? More than half of the action is spent on batter stepping out of the box to adjust his crotch, pitcher stepping off the rubber to adjust his cap, constant meetings held at mound by catchers and coaches, and endless commercials. They tried juicing the players but all it did was make their head bigger. America's past time? What a brainwash. I used to be one of the bots, but now I'm awake.

KC Hanson:

Portland has been able to support both the Beavers and the Timbers. Railing against the other fans' sport serves no purpose...

Bob T:

Yes, if this plays out like it appears to be doing, it won't help any image Portand wants to send out that it's ready for multiple sports teams, or has the fan base for this. NBA--AAA--MLS would be a step up from NBA--AAA--Timbers. But NBA--MLS is a drop from the previous trio.

As for railing against the other sport, I have noticed that (it's dominated by the anti-soccer comments) and avoided it because the issue to me is and always has been preventing Paulson or anyone else from getting corporate welfare in any form. I hate basketball, for example, but I never say anything about it because I merely see it as a sport I "don't get" and therefore have no business criticising it.

KC Hanson:

The City Commission has failed miserably in it's effort to retain minor league baseball, and there is really no excuse for their cavalier attitude other than that they've been egged on by M. Paulson.

Bob T:

The most any government should be able to do to retain (or even bring in) a sports franchise would be to let a prospective owner (or existing owner seeking a new city) know that he'll be welcome so long as he doesn't seek taxpayer dollars, or special privileges.

I hope you're not saying that the city council failure amounts to it not giving Paulson taxpayer dollars or other taxpayer-backed privileges.

KC Hanson:

The inflexibility of Paulson...

Bob T:

I don't know how many times I can say this, but such inflexibility among sports team owners has been reated by governments after many decades of wanting to dole out taxpayer dollars to bring in or keep a team so that they can brag about how they'd gotten "involved" in a large business decision in a way to "help" the local economy and to be able to brag that they have a professional sports team. Had governments not done any of this but stuck to sound economics, sports would have managed to survive the way they had for many decades before, just as so many other businesses have. Only economic illiterates belive the myth that the free market does not support major league sports and their stadiums and arenas.

You know, I've noticed over the yers (even as we speak) that many new buildings go up as some large companies need a larger plant, or an additional one, or a newer office complex. They pay for these. Paulson and others can either pay for their own stadiums or sell their teams to people who will. Period. But with progressives like Adams, Fish, Leonard etc, forget it. I guess we need some free market types on the city council to prevent another one of these scams (not Repubs, but free marketers). You guys had your chance to do it right, and you blew it. You're still going to pay for another stadium renovation (and they wanted to find a taxpayer way to keep baseball here).

Bob Tiernan Portland

15,000 people watched a game that ended in a 0-0 tie.

Maybe the new soccer stadium should be located in Boring, OR.

I think Boring residents might appreciate all the business that a sophisticated game of kick the can might bring to their community.

Faux European soccer rowdies and hooligans from Portland can now unleash their rage on me. Fakers.

So KC made an excellent point about why we shouldn't have to make a choice between soccer and baseball, and still there have been a bunch more posts arguing about which one is better.

I'm going to repeat some of the good points that KC made.

We should never have been put in the position of having to choose between soccer and baseball.

During the hearing, Commissioner Fritz correctly pointed out several pitfalls that await us even if MLS survives, particularly the raiding of the spectator fund entirely for soccer, and the extra payouts because of the high-interest bonds (if they can even be sold.) It was also stated during the hearing that if the bonds can't be sold, some other means to provide the $11 million will be found. Those means weren't specified.

The overall image of Portland's sports teams is diminished by losing baseball. What big-time U.S. city doesn't have a baseball team? We were previously the largest city not to have a MLB team; now we won't even have a AAA team.

The tone during the hearings was that this deal is going to be pushed through come hell or high water. As for baseball fans not coming to the hearings, soccer fans were specifically invited to testify. Paulson's organization sent e-mails to the Timbers season ticket holders notifying them of the hearings, and not to the Beavers ticket holders. Baseball fans had two strikes against them from the start, and it was only that way because Paulson and some Council members wanted it to be that way. We were deliberately placed into a situation where there had to be a choice between soccer and baseball, and we shouldn't have been.

Except for Commissioner Fritz, the Council members have failed to consider the best interests of the city.

Carla, Why sooo defensive? Could it be that you are able to dish it but not receive? Don't be an asshole.

""Meanwhile, the big glass box of uselessness still sits at the Rose Quarter in all it's architectural glory. A giant, shiny chotchke collecting dust and taking up space."

How about the Portland version of the Centre Pompidou. It's almost in the same kind of neighborhood (middle of town, yet isolated) like the Rose QUarter is.

If they want to build stadia for the Bevos or Timbers fine - just no taxpayer money.

"I've said it once but I'll repeat it. At the Timbers match last night there were close to 15K there. At the Timbers game against Seattle it was a sell out at over 16K."

Its been said multiple times, outside of those 2 games, the average attendance is 8000.

David English:

Paulson is using the the baseball team as bait to get public financing for a soccer stadium.

Bob T:

I think he's been using both teams. New and relocating teams are always used as bait.

He has a right to ask, I suppose. But no right to get the money. He's a political entrepreneur as opposed to a market entrepreneur. The latter are fine, the former are parasites but are created and maintained by government.

David English:

I'm opposed to public financing of the stadium.

Bob T:

Or any other kind of taxpayer financing to keep or lure a team. This is good, sound basic economics. Keep in mind that too many people act as if the real villains are the team owners, as if they can get your money simply by taking it. Not so. But only the politicians can give it to them, so beware of the power of the State. Paulson's a slime just for asking (hardly an Ayn Rand hero), but it's Sam Adams & Friends' hands in your wallet.

Bob Tiernan Portland

Thank you KC. It's rather amazing to me that all the progressive community here can talk about this deal is whether soccer or baseball is better. Since when do progressives support such blatent corporate welfare? 9% bonds.... really? Taxpayers subsidizing MP's non-living wages.... really? Etc, etc, I don't need to go on - KC said it well. So only Beaver fans are getting screwed, huh? Get real.

Oh, and keep your grimy mitts off Boring. We manage to have lots of fun up here without screwing people over and handing out freebies to millionaires.

Every economic study shows that sports teams/stadiums are always money losers for cities.

For any city or county government to spend taxpayers dollars on sports franchises is a misuse of public funds. To do so when our schools, roads, water/sewer and social services are in disrepair qualifies as malfeasance, it is causing damage to the city of Portland.

MLS has already survived its leanest years, and is still marching forward from them. Only 3 MLS teams were in the red after 2008: NY, DC, and SJ, compared to the 15 NBA teams that were in the red after the 08-09 season. MLS is built to survive and grow through leaner budgets and will continue to do so. The salary cap and single entity is what to really thank. Us soccer fans have been hearing that the MLS will fold for the last 14 years, well guess what, we are here to stay.

"Is there some problem with posting during work hours (as opposed to on work duty time), Mr. Guardian of the public trust? And did you know some people even have the nerve to take sick and personal days during the workweek? Or is it just a mindless, ad hominem attack to cover up the fact that you have no substantive rebuttal?"

OOOOHHHHHH a tad defensive aren't we Mark?

That would be a lot of sick/personal days given your posting times.

"Amanda Fritz's comments are apparently at odds with the City administrator, who assured her and the rest of Council that the spectator fund was equipped to handle the debt load placed on it"

So what Baghdad Bob is now the city administrator?

This city has been so misrun over the last 16 yrs that I don't trust these guys a damn. -We were told the tram would cost $15m and it cost $57 M. -We were told we HAD to build all the high rises near OHSU and they sit half empty but all those developers get lots of our $$. -We were told the streetcar is a great thing but it goes almost nowhere and expanding trimet buses would be cheaper & serve more areas/people. -If SFF funds are going to be used for corp welfare (which this is) then get rid of those separate accounts and put it into the general fund. -My question re: MLS requirement for the stadium is did we ever try to negotiate over the single-use requirement or did we just knuckle under?

Only dumbasses think that MLS is likely to fold. How about some research on the topic before spouting off inane comments?

You want to know a truth about Minor League Baseball? Whenever you have a team it eventually will leave. Whenever you you find yourself without a team, one will eventually come back. It may not be AAA again, but except for a small segment of the market, wins and losses and the players on the field mean nothing in minor league baseball. For most people, what you expect is a nice day out at the ballpark, a hotdog and a beer and the crack of the bat. In ten years, Portland will have baseball. It might not be PCL, but it will have some kind of baseball.

"EVEN IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT MLS TICKET SALES DID NOT MEET PROJECTIONS. The likeliest public outlay for renovations will be zero dollars. Which is why it's a sweet deal for the City."

the average corp junk bond has a 7.44% coupon (bloomberg) The bonds for the stadium are planned to be issued at 9%. 156bps higher. 20.9% higher interest then CORP JUNK BONDS. Moreover I just glanced at 352 Rev bonds for oregon - the average coupon was 4.34%. The Stadium bonds have a coupon more then twice the average revenue bond in Oregon. A 9% coupon and 8years not pay???The structure of this new issue is so odd it invites scrutiny.

The funniest part about this whole discussion. The architects and architectural fans like Brian Libby that wanted to save the Coliseum only acted as unknowing pawns to the Paul Allen's Vulcanites up in Seattle.

I can pretty much guarantee the Blazers are going either A: drastically alter the Memorial Coliseum or B: More likely tear it down.

They're going to be able to leverage Blazer fans against the people that don't want to do Paul Allen's development in the Rose Quarter. If you thought Timbers fans were nasty just wait until Allen uses the Blazer fans.

First he'll threaten to move the team to the coincidentally NBA lacking Seattle. However real the threat is I simply don't trust Paul Allen enough not to break a contract with the city of Portland. I imagine that if this scenario ever happened Seattle would be waiting in the wings with a remodeled Key Arena or brand spanking new stadium they'll let Allen use rent free.

Second he'll either get his way and get to build anything he wants architects be damned or he'll actually follow through and move the team to Seattle.

I imagine the Blazers motivated fan base would probably down at the Coliseum with sledgehammers at the ready if it ever got to the point of Allen threatening a move. City Council would likely follow suit considering there are a lot more Blazer fans than architecture fans...

Billy:

For any city or county government to spend taxpayers dollars on sports franchises is a misuse of public funds.

Bob T:

It would be a misuse of taxpayer dollars even if these projects had a good track record.

Bob Tiernan Portland

"...and what happens if the whole thing folds, which isn't a far-fetched scenario."

More than 1M people went to watch professional soccer matches live in the past three weeks. The game is no longer an obscure game. You have a misguided feeling that MLS may fold. I have an optimistic feeling it will explode. Wouldn't you want Portland to be part of it when it happens? Quit the bashing and explore that global community and what the game brings to the passion of the people that follows the game and maybe your perception will change.

Maybe because he's sick of your giant puddle of ignorance on the issue and is working to refute your points?

My favorite is your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories about Paulson and his secret plan to destroy baseball in Portland by losing a nomadic AAA team for which no one bothered to fight during a long, drawn out city council process.

Even from my blissful perch I recall a few facts about Lents, the MC and budget questions.

PS: If you want to prove your footie cred, never ever use Pele as your reference. It's sorta like using Hitler in a political argument.

"Which part is unfair or unbalanced?"

um the terms of the bond issue. The 9% coupon with the no interest payment for 8 years. Paying 20.9% more coupon than high yield corp debt. Issuing this bond concedes that the credit rating is in "junk" status. the terms of the bond seriously question the solvency of the deal.

I meant that AAA teams are nomadic. But if you'd like yet another 3rd party to post a point-by-point rebuttal of your fly-by-night post I will do that when I have more time tonight.

Not all of us have all day to comment on blogs. (Sometimes as ourselves, sometimes "astroturfing" against political opponents, eh?)

After this post I'm going to start keeping an eye out for a picture of you and Bojack together, all you were missing is a ref to "Little Lord Paulson".

I also love that you cut-and-paste URLs without reading them in order to discover they undercut your point.

If two people who are generally as divergent as Jack Bogdanski and myself are finding some common ground, perhaps it would behoove you to consider that there's a bigger problem for this deal than you'd like to admit.

Alternatively, you could both be using the same knee-jerk reaction and fear of the unknown to leap to conclusions with no factual basis. (Taping off the seats = conspiracy, for example)

And are you accusing me of "astroturfing" on this comment thread?

Not on this thread, as part of previous political campaigns. And no, I have no proof it's just something I heard on a brief visit to Blissville last week.

Exactly.

My "favorite" part of the City Council's absurd deal with Paulson is the way that you and I, dear reader, are going to be subsidizing the wages of stadium workers. (Paulson obviously cannot afford to do this and still have enough to spend on schmoozing at the golf course [to be written off on taxes as a business expense] and vacations at 5-star resorts.) And only that dangerous socialist Amanda Fritz had the gall to oppose this deal. How dare she!!!

Yeah, I'm also waiting for torridjoe to write an absurd apologia for the latest welfare-for-millionaires scheme.

Steve sez: "How about the Portland version of the Centre Pompidou. It's almost in the same kind of neighborhood (middle of town, yet isolated) like the Rose QUarter is."

Off-thread admittedly, but I'm fairly sure that Steve hasn't ever been to the Centre Pompidou unless via a travelogue on the TV.

"Mike, it's not defensiveness, it's weary exasperation."

I think this is one thing we share.

I am exasperated at the way this gang has f-d up one thing after another -the tram that was to cost $15 M but wound up costing $57m -All the ugly towers built in the S. Waterfront that sit half empty but Homer Williams et al sure made out well -The fiasco that the nines hotel is turning into (already defaulting on loan pmts) -the stupid drive to build a money sucking leech know as a convention center hotel -The streetcar that serves few people but costs a lot. Meanwhile more cost-effective means of transport (bus lines) are being cut back

I don't trust this gang to negoatiate a good deal; I've seen too many examples of how they have screwed up.

As for the argument that since the $$ comes from the SFF which is separate from the general fund and therefore there is no competition with $$ for essential services etc please...

If I have my boss direct deposit 20% of my paycheck to one acct (fun account)and 80% to another acct (billpay account) and use the 20% acct for fun stuff and the 80% account for bills, groceries etc the fun account is still money that otherwise could go to the billpay account to pay bills.

Just like the SFF is money that can otherwise go to the general fund.

"Your intransigence on even admitting that you carelessly slandered people"

Then hire a lawyer.

<h2>Also, to add to the 500,000 estimated individuals, add the potential events such as concerts having more dates open, rather than being clogged up by a week on minor league games and the Timbers will be able to have much more control of their schedule which is why Garber makes it a point to have Soccer Specific Stadiums.</h2>