Tell you what, McCain can "renounce the rhetoric that incites domestic terrorism" against abortion doctors when Obama, Dean, and Pelosi "renounce the rhetoric that incites domestic terrorism" against Army Recruiters.

Oh wait, you're not going to talk about the recruiter that got killed. It wouldn't be politically correct on this board.

Funny how we pick and chose our favorite murders of the week to make political hay over. We have a phrase for that in academia, it's called intellectual dishonesty.

Setting conditions and a quid pro quo for renouncing terrorism is pretty disgusting regardless of your political affiliation and beliefs.

If you want to descend into using relative evil as your measure for what's right, then be honest enough to acknowledge that there are conditions which justify murder. As long as I'm the one deciding when it's justified, I have no problem with that--but I'll be damned if anyone else gets to make that call.

Is it radical to be against 40,000,000 unborn children being killed (aborted, murdered - you pick) since Roe V Wade? If you add up all the Americans lost in all the wars we have participated including those Euro/Indian Wars dating back 300 years ago before we were a country, you couldn't place the tally of human life that high. It's been what - 37 years - sounds like the rule of law is viscious. Soon we'll start getting practical, not just viscious and start mining the slaughtered children for parts - stem cells, whatever we can find a use for - they are just garbage, right? An unwanted side effect.

Whether the Mom didn't plan precautions for sex, whether the couple broke up, whether the dad "didn't pull out", whether Rape or even Incest - every pregnancy has 1 innocent life that had nothing to do with the how or the why the "problem" exists. Funny how that 1 innocent in every abortion equation always dies - strange morality vs. 9 months of inconvenience.

I believe we are average 2,500,000 infants (or fetuses if you insist) being killed every year! Everyone reading this (and on this site, getting outraged, thinking up responses, not soul searching) was a fetus. Over 95% of fetuses that make it through the first 3 months without "medical intervention" will be born alive and have rights. Doctiors started being called killers and murderers, when medicine started meaning slaughter.

Denying them rights while they are unborn is SIMPLY a MATTER of CONVENIENCE. Denying their pain and screaming, while they are shaved and vaccuumed out of their mother's womb, just because those screams are not heard is criminal, regardless of what the current law says.

I'm not even going to begin to suggest a solution. As a people we place such a low value on human life, except our own, that I expect abortions to become more, not less. I won't suggest that I or anyone has the right to "force" someone to suspend the knife for 9 months and let babies live, but I suspect that eventually in some form, justice will come due. Maybe when social security crashes, maybe when people meet their maker - what we are doing is not right, I guess that's why they call this, The LEFT.

Tiller's killer was a whacked out loon for years having been convicted of making an exlosive device years ago.

Your smearm merchant political hackery attempting to link and blame the so called "rhetoric that incites terrorism and violence" to this Tiller murder is just more of your predictable tactics.

I watched Olberman last night go off into an equally loony world as he demanded the shut down of his competion Fox news and Bill O'Reilly. What a complete dunce. And so blue and melodramatic.

The Tiller murder is as bad as all murders. Blaming it on you political opponent's rhetoric makes less sense than blaming the world view on your 8 years of hate America rhetoric you spewed during the Bush administration.

Of course left wing hate never incites anything bad right? And the left hate is truth based of course.

For all of you people who believe that "life begins at conception", here are a few steps you can take so that society adopts your view:

Don't celebrate your birthday, celebrate your conceptionday. If you're Mark Hatfield, celebrate your implantationday.

Tell your children to apply for their learner's permit 15 years after they were conceived, and for their driver's license one year later.

Go to your local high school and register people to vote who are 17 years, 3 months old. Have them cross out "birth date" and write in "conception date", and have them write the day they were conceived.

Encourage young people to go down to their local bar and drink alcohol when they turn 20 years, 3 months of age.

When you turn 61 years, 3 months of age, retire and apply for Social Security benefits.

It must rankle the anti-abortion crowd that all of our age-related milestones use date of birth, not date of conception.

fbear, What a useless "birthday" lesson.

Did Keith Olberman's rhetoric incite the Muslim convert to kill the recruiter in Little Rock?

I wonder how the Cheneyist Republicans would react to the suggestion that Randall Terry be waterboarded so that we might learn what he knows about other antiabortion terrorists who might strike at any moment. Hey, ticking bombs, right?

When will Obama apologize for his statements that led one of his fellow Muslims to kill an Army recruiter yesterday?

Either way, you can scratch Tiller from playing the Terminator in T5.

Tiller is starring in his own "Drag Me to Hell."

Funny how when anyone talks about pregnancy just being "9 months of inconvenience" it's always someone who cannot actually get pregnant.

Also, Dave, for the record, if you're going to attempt to talk to people who have evolved beyond knee-jerk, right-wing talking points, you need to drop the sexist statements like "Whether the Mom didn't plan precautions for sex". News Flash---it takes two people to make a baby and the Man (not father, since he's not until the kid is born) is just as responsible for "precautions for sex" as the Woman (not mother--again, not until the kid is born).

Of course, I know you won't agree with me since you're obviously cutting and pasting from the extremist copy of the right-wing handbook, but I just couldn't let your remarks go unanswered.

Back on topic---Kari, there's a better chance that Hannity will be voluntarily waterboarded than the extreme-anti-abortion crowd will renounce their rhetoric.

Oh stop the vague merry-go-round. Who exactly is the extreme anti-abortion crowd, what part of the greater general abortion opposition are they and what rheotric exactly is the "extreme-anti-abortion crowd supposed to renounce? Their oppostion to abortion?

There's plenty of far left loons advocating all sorts of craziness. Do they represent progressives?

McCain is one of the most over-rated people in Washington.

Kari, I fear that the "guilt by rhetoric" argument can be taken too far very quickly. A lot of good people on the left use very apocalyptic language when talking about global warming. "Destruction of the planet." "Collapse of ecosystems." "End of humanity." If someone really believes that man-made global warming is destroying the planet and humans as a species, it makes sense to use any means possible to stop the destruction. If an earth liberation front member firebombs a coal-fired plant, killing two janitors inside, do the global warming activists "bear some responsibility" since "words have consequences"? If not, what's the difference?

Just remember that women's bodies are simply breeding machines created by God for the pleasure of men, and that the Bible tells us that men shall have dominion over the Earth. Is that clear?

And by the way, guns don't kill people, people kill people. If Scott Roeder had not had a gun, he would have murdered George Tiller by hurling a spear or using a blowgun to shoot a poisoned dart.

Did Keith Olberman's rhetoric incite the Muslim convert to kill the recruiter in Little Rock?

What, you're not saying that THAT killer was just a troubled loner, in no way indicative of his religion's propensity for terrorism? I'm shocked!

Do the rightwingnuts who come to sites like Blue Oregon get their marching orders from Lars Larson or others like him? I often wonder, since the lunatics never show up here unless the post is about one of their pet topics, in this case, the right wing and Republican Party's support for murdering doctors performing legal medical services. And make no mistake, this is a Republican Party-wide problem that needs to be stamped out without a hint of tolerance or compromise. Terrorists like Randall Terry need to be imprisoned post haste, without trial if needed. They pose a clear and present danger to the republic, have no doubt about that. They would overthrow the government if they could if it meant they were closer to imposing their Taliban-like extremism on the American people.

Oh, and rightwingers? Don't bother trying to make racist and disingenous claims about how those people you hate are trying to "incite" violence against so-called "conservatives." It isn't happening now, and it won't happen in the future.

If McCain and other GOP are to be held responsible to any degree for this heinous act, wouldn't the Roman Catholic Church also be similarly culpable?

True, the Catholic hierarchy has not appeared on a dais with a politician who has endorsed such an act (as fas as I know it hasn't), but if you're going to cast your net wide enough to implicate McCain and the like then it's a not too much of a leap to implicate the Roman Catholic Church.

Point being that I don't think we can implicate anyone unless they specifically call for or carry out such an action.

Seems to me that if McCain and like-minded GOP are to be implicated in the blame for this heinous act then it's a very short leap to also hold the Roman Catholic Church accountable.

Point being that I don't think anyone can be implicated unles that person or organization has specifically endorsed or committed the act.

"Do the rightwingnuts who come to sites like Blue Oregon get their marching orders from Lars Larson or others like him?"

Do the leftwingnuts who own these sites get their marching orders from DailyKOOKS/HuffBlo/Keith Dobermann (Countdown To No Ratings)?

Pro-lifers they loves them the fetus but don't care a bit about you once your born. In fact they are more than willing to put you in jail and throw away the key or even execute you if you screw up.

Pay taxes for schools or welfare? "Hell no," they say.

Some hypocrites they are.

If you are truly pro-life then it should be be from conception, each and every day forward, until death and not end just because you're out of the womb.

I don't see that happening past the 'cute little fetus' stage.

Not everyone who is pregnant wants to be and someone who does not want to be a parent will not be a good parent.

Roe V Wade did not start abortion and overturning it will not end abortion. It needs to exist and needs to be safe and accessible to those who choose that option. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

Dr. Tiller's murder is to be condemned by all. The blatant poliicalization of his murder by both the ultra left and ultra right is nauseating.

Kari, I'll beleive you are serious about this when you call on George Soros and MoveOn.org to cease their diaribe against the war and attempt to demonize military recruiters. His murder is no lease senseless than Dr. Tiller's.

I think all the true patriots will agree that we should soon waterboard this Christian terrorist. He could have information that could save American lives. God bless America!

Gotta go with Kurt Chapman here: "Dr. Tiller's murder is to be condemned by all. The blatant poli[t]icalization of his murder by both the ultra left and ultra right is nauseating."

It simply isn't uncommon for both wings of our political spectrum to resort to rhetoric and hyperbole to stir up the passions of their constituencies. I tend like visiting Blue Oregon, but I usually hope for a more moderate bit of writing. I saw someone else on this site put thier political position this way:

Republican? NO Democrat? NO Independent? ALWAYS

Works for me. It's difficult to take a post like this seriously when both sides do spend time in disingenuous posturing.

Best Regards.

UL has a point "Roe V Wade did not start abortion and overturning it will not end abortion."

http://www.amazon.com/Story-Jane-Legendary-Underground-Feminist/dp/0226424219

is one book on that subject. Another is titled Abortion In America.

Bob Packwood caused a stir in the early 1980s because he actually read from that book on the Senate floor.

If anyone does not believe that the right's hateful rhetoric led directly to the death of Dr. Tiller I suggest you amble on over to the Rachel Maddow Show website and watch her interview of Frank Shaeffer a man intimately involved with the beginning of the miss-named pro-life movement.

Mr. Shaeffer goes into great detail about the intentions and goals of it's leaders. Publicly they may express faux dismay, but privately they are terrorist fist bumping each other.

Nothing I have ever read or watched on any progressive liberal website or television program has ever been remotely anti soldier. To hate the war is not to also hate the soldier. We love the soldiers and want them all back home, safely and in one piece with top notch health care available to them.

Many Veterans are anti-war. Does that make them anti-American terrorists? Just asking.

As far as the man who shot the military recruiters: Details are sketchy but one thing that has come out is that he is a recent convert to Islam. Just guessing, but depending on his mental state and degree of control over his own actions.......... his motivation might of been along the lines 'these are the guys who are killing Muslims so I'm going to get them.' Kind of bent logic and thin but it makes at least some sense. Just guessing as I said.

I doubt he posts on Daily Kos, watches Keith or my favorite, Rachel. As Colbert says, "Reality has a known liberal bias," and this guy doesn't strike me as being totally connected to reality.

Did Keith Olberman's rhetoric incite the Muslim convert to kill the recruiter in Little Rock? No more then any other rhetoric insites anyone else to do a given thing. Why is it the left has such a hatred of freedom of speech that they jump at every chance to endorse restrictions upon it, striving to make the USA like Canada, like Germany, like France? Perhaps it is because at root they negate the individual, and thus have no belief in free will, and they seek to control we "proles" by insulting us from "dangerious ideas." Funny enough, the only thing that will provoke me to murder the nearest leftist will be the loss of my first amendment rights. "Hate speech" as defined by the left is political speech, the only speech that matters. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Unending hate speech from the conservative right, plus an infantile fascination with firearms and explosives (remember the murderer Roeder had a prior run-in with the law over this, and yet he still had a gun) gives us rhetoric like the post immediately above by "Me." Note the dog whistle disapproving waves at other industrialized democracies, indicating an ultra-naive American exceptionalism. Note the gesture at "proles," thus conflating Marxism in a weird way while imbibing Fox "News" Kool-Aid about suspicious "elites" - a textbook example of Bourdieu's "meconnaissance," a misapprehension so thorough that ones entire life is lived against ones own economic and social interests. And then notice the childish bravado, emblematic of arrested development at the early middle school development, an unveiled threat to murder a leftist in a context of another murder.

And of course the "pipe" linked with the imperative is quite Freudian. Severe compensation issues throughout that post.

My, My, My.....such venomous, hate filled language from both left and right. Tisk, tisk, tisk,....hate will get you nothing more than an appetite for more hate.

I haven't seen this much wrath since Khan spoke those immortal words: ""From Hell's heart, I stab at thee... For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee..."

Well, maybe you all will fill your hearts with enough hate for each others views that you will have a civil war.

After the carnage, those of us that are in the middle and willing to have respectful dialogs and have learned to appreciate and respect individual opinions will find common solutions for common problems and move the country forward.

OK,.. ready, set, GO! let the ripping and tearing continue!

The problem is that someone left the front door open, and people keep coming in and peeing on the carpet. How about some troll-repellent around here? I feel like I need a shower after reading some of these comments.

The poster 'Unrepentant liberal' cannot help himself.

In spite of his efforts to deny that liberals do not condemn the killing of the American military man, he finishes by saying: "but it makes at least some sense."

Re: "It simply isn't uncommon for both wings of our political spectrum to resort to rhetoric and hyperbole to stir up the passions of their constituencies."

"Both wings" are murderous thugs who can't wait to assume power so they can kill more "anti-American" people in distant lands whose resources are prized.

The fact is that the average American is far to the left of "both wings" on the issues. It's time to abort both parties.

Wow. Fever swamp, here.

"Will John McCain (finally) renounce the rhetoric that incites domestic terrorism?"

McCain will do whatever he believes is in his own interest. Despite that he has a capacity for doing things that are not in his interest because of a habit of talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Considering he is proud of his father who sold the crew of one of his ships - the USS Liberty - down the Mediterranean when the Israeli military and air force tried to sink it and murder the crew in June 1967 we shouldn't expect too much of McCain when it comes to doing the right thing.

These articles have information about the attack on the USS Liberty: http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair06082007.html - http://www.counterpunch.org - http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern06022009.html -/mcgovern10062007.html

Both parties' "family" rhetoric result in real, environmental terrorism every day. Figures the Dems would find a hair to split, even if it means abandoning the only thing you ever did right, i.e., direct social action in the 1960s and with the environment in the 1970s and early 80s.

The Weathermen wouldn't recognize your party, and you're proud of that. Does 40 years make that much of a difference? Look at the US population data. You've enough blanks now that you can abandon any real action, and real leadership, for rounding up the herd. You're the party of human farming. People are too dumb to learn that if you live like swine, you get the swine flu.

Personally, I invite MCain's violent cretins. Invite them right to my doorstep. Their lame attempts to perpetrate physical violence on my person is the quickest, legal way I have to eliminate them from the equation, with extreme predjudice. They incite violence because they know Dems are too chicken shit to fight back. He says something, you make a post. His cretins make postal bombs. They eliminated a progressive last week, and you've eliminated...about six graf inches on the front page.

I shouldn't whine. At least it's a topic worthy of the time. It's just that there is no direct, behavioral proposal. Oh, right. You do propose what THEY can do. Personally, I don't care how valid the point and how well it's made, if there is no call to personal action. I know you've been to a Ralph Nader talk. For all your ridicule- and I'll never understand how you manage to ridicule progressives more than the right, but you do- the "Naderites" are intensely conscious of following up talk with personal action.

Put another way, if your child were being bullied, would you protest and say that your "action" was to wait for the offending child's parents to make a statement condemning his actions? Yes, you probably would.

You can think of all kinds of positive, behavioral interventions, in that case. They apply here as well. Progressives are asking, like the title, "Blue Oregon: Will Democrats (finally) act, when domestic terrorists threaten and why haven't they taken out those inciting it?"

Come on, you're a publisher. You really can't think of ways to make sure that idiots spewing hate get some major blow-back? Michael Savage (nee Weiner) is having to spend his time/money on the fact that the Brits have barred his entry to the country for career hate mongering and incitive, intolerant speech. That was based on one person's complaint? We can't do as well? Looking at the record, one would have to say we can't even come close. And points for "in your face". Weiner never asked to be allowed entry. It's just a nasty gram. "Home office to Michael Weiner, 'You're a turd. Stay home.'". Unsolicited. And they say MPs aren't using taxpayer monies as well.

Is it radical to be against 40,000,000 unborn children being killed (aborted, murdered - you pick) since Roe V Wade?

It is specious. And you missed the "you pick" bit, which you don't get. It applies to the noun, not the verb. You know, "children, fetuses, zygotes, tissue samples", etc. I can grow a complete copy of you from intestinal mucosa. Every time you take a shit its a potential human life. Better not flush! I am glad that we don't have 40 million additional unwanted Americans, and wish it was 400 million! You've impoverished every species on the planet, all because HUMAN LIFE is to be worshipped. Fuck human life, fuck you and fuck every pandering rat monger from the SUV salesmen to the politicians. Terrorism is every cretin breeding out the ass because they really want to. When Dems pander to "family", they are promoting terrorism as well. It's a gang war. That's going to be one of my direct actions, photoshopping Kari's image so that he's giving a gang sign. When finished, you can check out the final product at blueoregonrecallsam.com

Posted by: Ms Mel Harmon | Jun 2, 2009 8:56:32 AM

Funny how when anyone talks about pregnancy just being "9 months of inconvenience" it's always someone who cannot actually get pregnant.

Got 15 minutes? We'll be glad to extend the luxury to you!

Men can get pregnant; stick a fertilized egg to any tissue this is like a uterus and it'll grow. It would be a crime, though, to do that, which should tell you how much our rights and wrongs and necessities and choices have not progressed beyond what dumb luck gave us in evolution.

Come on. I dare anyone to make a coherent argument for how the world will be better because they get pregnant. I'm loaded for bear, on the contrary, as is anyone with 1/2 a brain.

"But let's be clear about something: if you're going to repeatedly say that a doctor performing a legal medical procedure is committing "murder" and engaging in a "holocaust", then you shouldn't be surprised when one of your more motivated supporters actually does something about it. After all, if you're convinced that someone is committing "mass murder", then killing him is a perfectly logical thing to do."

Kari, this has got to be one of the most insidious, naive, and sophomoric comments you've made in a long time. You are basically making the assumption that anyone who defines an act as murderous automatically takes the eye for an eye approach. I sure as hell don't, and neither do 99% of abortion opponents. If you're assumption was correct the murder rate of abortion providers would be astronomical. Personally, I believe abortion is murder and anyone who performs the incredulous act is committing murder.

I would never take another man's life just because I disagreed with him. That's cowardly. And just because I'm against abortion doesn't mean I'm some wacko right-wing nut who protests abortion clinics, tries to exploit doctors who perform it, or intimidates people who see this issue differently than I.

Oh, and just because it's "legal" doesn't make it right.

If abortion is murder, and if doctors who perform abortion are mass baby killers, then all of you who believe such bullshit are gutless punks for posting to a "progressive" blog instead of killing the murderers.

If you're unwilling to act on your bullshit, knowing that you will receive an honored place in heaven for your killing, then shut the fuck up.