Oh! Sausage making! As an aside I find it curious that Republicans in general oppose hate crimes legislation, but endorse increasing sentencing of anyone who kills a pregnant women. Isn't this basically the same concept?

Sounds like Hunt came to his senses and decided 1) the tradeoffs with Republicans aren't worth it because 2) the Governor is kind of right on this issue.

TJ made the argument yesterday that the Dems want to spend the reserves so that they aren't subject to an attack from conservatives on the tax referrals that goes like this: "The Democrats want to raise your taxes by hundreds of millions of dollars, yet they have hundreds of millions sitting in the bank. Why are they raising taxes when they have money sitting around?"

Yet there is a counter to that. By stashing $400 million in case things get worse, we neuter the argument that says we shouldn't raise taxes because Democrats will spend every dollar they have, and then ask for more. Some creative minds can turn this into a slick 30-second piece.

I think the Governor is being terribly counterproductive here. He should be a leader to get these bills through the Legislature , not use his veto pen to create leverage for delay and bargaining chips for the Republicans.

You would think his team could come up with a little more sophisticated way to achieve his objective..

How much does it cost to extend session? Legislators earn slightly more during session, plus all the extra staff time. The Reeps who keep changing their votes are slowing down the process for purely political reasons, messing with a key bill they already indicated they're in favor of and costing taxpayers money. Voters in their districts might want to know about that.

paul g. ...

Why would the Portland School District have "classes exceedidng 50 students," unless it's in Band or some PE classes. And not funding music and arts programs? PPS gets more money (operating budget) per student than any medium or large district in Oregon, and that doesn't include their local option funding. Their operating budget (not the "all funds" budget, but operating costs including the special revenue funds) for 2008-09 was just a little under $500M for approximately 43,000 ADMr. That's somewhere in the neighborhood of $11,600 per student, about $1,500/student over the state average.

If I were you, I'd be asking some questions about administrative salaries and other costs of the bureaucracy surrounding the schools. With its size, PPS ought to be achieving economies of scale. If what you're saying is actually happening, their size is making them inefficient.

How would you conceptualize a 30-second argument along these lines?

You're right, TJ, it's hard to deal with both arguments simultaneously. I guess I'm thinking more that there is an upside to having been fiscally responsible versus fiscally reckless. And I think in the end, the Democrats should be prudent even if it's politically more difficult.

I think there is a good, quick response to the criticism that we are sitting on $400 million while increasing taxes by $800 million. We KNOW that revenues have fallen precipitously, but we don't know for SURE if they've fallen as far as they are going to. So we've set aside $400 million to be ready in case they fall further. But we also know that, in addition to large budget cuts, we need an additional $800 million in order to avoid making even deeper cuts to critical services.

For my two younger, in fourth and first grade, I am going to start seriously looking at private schools. . . I can't deal with the uncertainty of PPS funding again ... and again ... and again.

Paul, do you really think the quality of a PPS education has fallen, or is it possible that a lot of it is perception but not reality? As a product of PPS 20 years ago, I got a stellar education. Better, in fact, than many of the private school kids I went to college with back east. Now that my own kids will start school in a year or so, I'm looking very closely at the lack of funding, the reduced/eliminated programs, etc. But I'm also talking to parents in the two local elementary schools and the two middle schools, and every one of them is very concerned with the "situation" of the schools, but also very happy with their own children's education. I have not found one parent who thinks their child received a poor education, at least from the schools in my neighborhood.

Is it possible that even with the budget cuts and larger class sizes, PPS teachers and administrators have come up with creative ways to maintain a fundamentally sound education system? And that while certain things are lacking, in reality PPS has just gone from an outstanding public school district in the 70s and 80s to an above average district today?

I'd really need to know where you live. There are gross disparities in the PPS.

I'm in SW Portland. And yes, I think many of the schools here are better because there is more parent support, both financially and on a volunteer basis. (One side point, however, is that the perception of "SW PDX" is 20 years behind the reality. Many close-in neighborhoods in SE and NE Portland have a higher household income than most SW neighborhoods. My two local elementary schools have higher free and reduced-price lunch than most SE and NE elementary schools. We bought our house here precisely because we couldn't afford the neighborhoods in SE and NE. Income distribution in Portland today is not what it was in the 1980s.)

I actually think recognizing the quality disparity is a good thing. First, it allows us to try to correct it. But more importantly in this time of diminished funding, it corrects the perception that "PPS schools suck." I think there are hundreds of families that choose not to send their kids to PPS based not on the quality of their neighborhood school, but on what they read in the paper about the school district as a whole. This contributes to the downward spiral, as more kids attend private school, thus depriving the district overall of tax revenue that could help support the entire system.

Bottom line: Many PPS schools are fantastic. Most PPS children receive a top-notch education. Yes, it's unfortunate that they won't also get art and music classes, and you'll have to pay out of pocket for sports. And we should work to change that. But none of those things are worth the thousands of dollars you'll spend on a private education, which not only costs a lot of money but also makes the PPS situation even worse.

And "Most PPS students receive a top-notch education" is also just not supported by our performance numbers.

Paul, I see a lot of performance numbers comparing Portland schools to one another, but not many comparing Portland schools to other schools in the state or the country. Are those collected and published routinely?

A few thousand bucks for a lifetime in education? Peanuts.

I think my skepticism comes from my own experience. As I mentioned, my own public education was better than the private schools my peers attended back east, many of them quite prestigious. Sure, they played lacrosse and were fluent in latin, but I just knew more than they did and also was better prepared for the academic give and take of a small college campus. I was also better socially prepared to deal with the diversity of a small college campus. My wife grew up in a very small town in PA and attended THE regional school in her area. No magnet programs, limited arts and music, one year of foreign language offered, etc. AP and IB courses? Never even heard of them. She then went to a small state school for college. We both went to better known graduate schools, but the point is that in our professional lives, we've both beaten the pants off the private school, Ivy-league college types we've competed against. I'm not bashing the Ivies, they open many doors and you can get a phenomenal education. But I wonder sometimes if we put so much emphasis on school quality, both at the secondary and higher education levels, that we forget what really makes a difference: excellent teachers, parental involvement, supportive environment. Those things outweigh the class ratios and extracurricular offerings every time.

I don't blame you or anyone for not sacrificing your kids on the altar of public education. But I worry that sometimes people get the impression that it's a sacrifice based on news reports and popular perception, when in reality it's not.

stop the talk--stay with the present money--it looks like the worst is yet to come--lets walk carefully.

we voted for 57, who are you to change that?

<h2>joe--oregon city</h2>