Great. I really think WWF language in the title detracts.

Luntz needs to realize, as do many others, that "talking points" alone do not win debates.

If someone could not afford health care and was told what we need is a fair and balanced approach, the likelihood is that a person saying that to someone else's face is likely to hear "OK, what is common sense about my situation?".

Regardless of party or anything else, the talking point nonsense is wearing out. Someone could have an award winning commercial but if neighbors ridiculed it to one another, how does that win public support?

If one person is an ideologue and another is a problem solver, how does Luntz overcome the citizens who support the problem solver? With rhetoric?

Luntz is without a doubt a skilled manipulator of language. It is a pity that he seems to always attach himself to the moral and ethical bankrupts in our political and financial syndicates much like hit men hire themselves out to drug lords and organized crime bosses.

A short time ago, propagandists like Luntz and Newt Gingrich could issue their fornicated language talking points, and some of it would actually end up, unchallenged, in the mainstream media. Times have changed. Ed Schultz gave an excellent presentation on single-payer health care on his TV (on GE-owned MSNBC) and radio shows Thursday. The big picture is that the US Corporatocracy is now more than willing to pass on the burden of employee health care to someone else (the government). The most strident voices against reform are the health insurance industry, and the Republican idiots that they can persuade or pay off. I feel optimistic (hope it's not just the wine).

wow..congratulations oregon...we're in the middle of an economic crisis, two wars and our state has the second highest unemployment in the nation.. and what's Oregon's newest senator doing?..oh, blogging...about a communications strategist that he doesn't like. You've got to be f#%king kidding me.

Note to Jeff: Listen, dickhead, you're a senator now..not a fucking blogger....you may not like it (god knows most of us don't like it either), but for the next 5 1/2 years, we are all stuck with this situation. None of us can really change the fact that we have to watch this sloppy, mumbling mess (that's you), fumble around and embarrass us until we can remove you in 2014...but the least you could do on behalf of Oregonians is to try to act like a senator. Believe me, if you want to trade in your senate seat for nice little blogger position over here at BO or whatever other flag burning echo chamber you fancy, we would all be just fine with that. But so long as your incompetent ass is filling that seat..try to focus a little more on work...a little less on your blogging diary. Thanks.

JJ it's only republicans who can't walk and chew gum at the same time. The rest of us multitask constantly. It sounds like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Gordon Smith was too busy admiring his million dollar antique golf clubs to help average Oregonians much anyway. It's not like people are missing him.

*Note to self:

1) Don't drink coffee when reading JJ's comments 2) Purchase liquid proof key board protector

Call a Canadian Want to know what universal single-payer health care is really like? Rationing? Hi taxes? Worry free?

Instead of listening to "experts" from the health insurance industry, lobbyists, the government, or even Michael Moore, why not call an average Canadian and find out for yourself?

Substitute your area code for a Canadian one listed below and call your own phone number. Introduce yourself and ask the person at the end of the line what they think about their health care system. Ask about their own experience. The service, the price, the choice, whatever.

Then make up your mind if single-payer universal health care is a good idea for the USA.

Canadian Area Codes: 709 Atlantic Time plus a half hour

506 and 902 Atlantic Time

819, 418, 581, 450, 613, 514, 438, 343, 416, 647, 905, 289, 705, 519, 226, 807 Eastern Time

204, 306 Central Time

867, 780, 587, 403, 587 Mountain Time

250, 778, 604 Pacific Time

Frank Luntz is the same charlatan that helped Gingrich with his contract on America. Read the opening chapters of his "Words that Work" if you want to be nauseated by his arrogant self-promotion.

If there's anything we've learned from Gingrich and Luntz and Bush and Cheney and Republican talk radio -- it's that we need to be vigilant and persistently counter such rhetoric before it appears in the mainstream press as accepted spin.

That's why we are fortunate to have a senator with Jeff Merkley's savvy, taking on this perverse rhetoric -- he has a skill set sometimes unfortunately missing in elected Democrats.

There is hope for health care reform in Washington,D.C. -- and Oregonians have made a huge contribution in sending Wyden and Merkley to the Senate.

Jonathon:

Because I work in Canada for about 3 weeks out of the year I have asked just this question. Their universal answer is that they would not switch to American healthcare for any reason - period.

However they do appreciate the cheap alcohol during happy hour when they cross over the border.

So what was your point other than publishing a complete list of all the area codes up north?

Hooray! I'm so glad we got Merkley elected! Can you imagine Gordon Smith sticking up for health care? Neither can I.

They say this is going to be a heavy, heavy fight, and that we might not have even enough Democrats on board to get the right reform package passed...but at least OUR delegation has health care's back. In fact, we can count on Merkley, Wyden, Blumenauer and The Faz to take a LEADERSHIP role on the issue.

Regardless of party or anything else, the talking point nonsense is wearing out. Someone could have an award winning commercial but if neighbors ridiculed it to one another, how does that win public support?

Make no mistake, we'll need to fight their talking points. The insurance lobbyists have a lot of cash to spend chanting lie after lie, and if lies are repeated often enough, a lot of people will believe them, even if they're stupid lies. Remember "Harry and Louise"? Remember the endless chanting that people wouldn't be allowed to choose their doctors, that they wouldn't be "approved" for procedures they needed for cost reasons(as opposed to, I guess, having HMOs not approve those same procedures for cost reasons)? Remember how a simple genetic food labeling ballot measure enjoyed wide support a few years back until Monsanto spent a lot of money lying about it and the people voted it down?

This is important.

why not call an average Canadian and find out for yourself?

I have many Canadian friends. All but one of them are baffled by the nightmare of American health care and insurance, and would rise up in revolt if their government tried to replace the Canadian system with what we have. The one exception is both extremely wealthy and had a spouse who needed very special treatment for a rare illness during her last years.

So yes, there is some cost. American health care has better treatment available for unusual conditions...if you can pay all that the market will bare. For the rest of us with mundane illnesses and budgets, or even exotic illnesses and budgets, it's hard to see how great health care you have to do without because you can't afford it is any better than no health care at all.

we're in the middle of an economic crisis, two wars and our state has the second highest unemployment in the nation.. and what's Oregon's newest senator doing?..oh, blogging...about a communications strategist that he doesn't like. You've got to be f#%king kidding me.

He used one of the most high-trafficked liberal blogs on the whole net to alert the activists there to something the other side was planning, concerning an issue that was one of the central points of his campaign for Senate. Health care reform is right up there in importance with the war, jobs and the economy. In fact, it is very much LINKED with jobs and the economy, as a healthier workforce is more productive, and consumers with affordable health care will have more disposable income to spend, instead of going ever-deeper in debt to pay all those medical bills and skyrocketing insurance premiums.

Seems to me, Merkley's alert is every bit part of doing his job.

Posted by: carla axtman | May 8, 2009 7:42:39 AM

"...act like a senator..."? You mean like having a business that constantly pollutes the local water system and tries to skirt the law with the hiring of people who are in the country illegally?

That's true. Most politicos metaphorically feed us dung, but Gordo does it literally!

Posted by: Pat Ryan | May 8, 2009 12:20:04 PM

JJ Old Son,

Please post links to anyone in either the posts or the comments sections of Blue Oregon who have displayed their "hatred" for the troops or have advocated burning any flags.

Awww... Not so long gone but soon forgotten. Sigh. Or am I underestimating your rationality and my constant epithet "hired killers" doesn't qualify? "Conservative Minority Education" is debatable, but "need to have their door kicked in, in the middle of the night (and everything else they do) by people that think differently to get it" would be beyond the Pale for most.

I missed the memo. When did the radicals get kicked out of the Party? Right. When Rush started using them as a liability. Class act. Both.

Pat,

Seriously dude...if the "flag burning" metaphor is lost on you...perhaps you should look it up or something before you start ranting on the internet about it...i'm kind of embarrassed for you. When someone refers to "flag burners" in a political context, it usually isn't a reference to the literal act of setting a flag on fire...its a metaphor for being unpatriotic. You still following me here?...I'm trying to keep this simple for you.

I have not actually seen anyone advocate for setting flags on fire on this site...although i have to admit that i haven't researched all the posts and comments..im sure i might find something. Nevertheless, when I was using that term I was referring to a lack of patriotism. Do I think all liberals are by definition unpatriotic? Of course not. But are those who..for instance, side with the interests of terrorists who are at war with this country over the interests of our national security, unpatriotic? Absolutely...and that is not debatable. Is barack obama unpatriotic? Apparently so..which is a travesty. Is Steve Novick unpatriotic..well, based on his last post regarding prosecuting US government officials for interrogating terrorists...yeah, sadly steve novick is also unpatriotic.

Is Jeff Merkley a "flag burner"? Well..Jeff Merkley is a lot of things...including entirely unqualified for his current job and an embarrassment to this state. He has no business serving in the US Senate and to even compare him to guys like Mark Hatfield or Gordon Smith is a joke..Merkley is barely qualified to shine those guys' shoes. There is a long list of very well qualified Democrats from Oregon who could hold that seat..Merkley ain't on the list. Setting his unbelievably shitty voting record in the state legislature aside for a minute (we all remember the massive tax increase votes and standing up to defends serial rapists).....on a personal level the guy is an unbelievable scumbag...he spent 10 years as a portland area slumlord (failing to provide things like water and even a front door to some of his tenants)...he was fined repeatedly for not paying his property taxes, he threw his own wife under the bus when he got exposed for his hypocrisy on charter schools, he broke his own ethics rules about raising money during the session and (whether carla cares about this or not) he's under investigation by the FEC and facing a possible $1.5 million in fines for violating federal law...a violation for which he could be ultimately indicted and prosecuted for. So, do I like Jeff Merkley? No, he's a disgrace and one of the worst mistakes Oregonians have ever made. Do i think he's a flag burner...well...long before Obama was even mentioning prosecuting our own law enforcement and military officials...Jeff Merkley was screaming loudly in defense of 9/11 terrorists and calling our men and women in uniform war criminals (PSU senate debate...i was there)..so yeah..he too is a "flag burner".

I hope that clears things up for you there pat...didn't mean to confuse you with my fancy metaphors..ill be sure to dumb it down for you next time.

There is hope for health care reform in Washington,D.C. -- and Oregonians have made a huge contribution in sending Wyden and Merkley to the Senate.

There is very little hope for single-payer health care unless the people demand single-payer action.

I'm not sure what country JJ is a patriot of but it clearly is not the United States of America.

Unfortunately, what too many people believe is that what they see as good for them is good for the country while they focus on their own navels and haven't a clue and don't give a damn about what is happening to others.

Kevin,

Maybe if you spend a little less time googling "liberty" quotes and a little more time thinking about what you're saying, you will sound like less of a clown. Unless you yourself have done some hard time down in GITMO and feel somehow wronged by the fact that you didn't get fresh squeezed OJ every morning and your bed turned down every night..im not sure what the hell you're trying to say. How does support for enhanced interrogation techniques on terrorists, especially those responsible for 9/11 and their followers, infringe on your liberty? The reality is that the Americans whose liberty was most clearly infringed upon were the 3,000 or so who died that day in the towers, on the planes and in the pentagon. The are no longer free to go to work, free to see their husbands and wives at night, free to kiss their kids goodnight....they lost everything...and yet you sit here defending those very people who slaughtered your fellow citizens, took everything they had...and then try to cloak your BS argument in the baseless idea that you are somehow a defender of "liberty". Please dude....its time for you to hit the mute button on Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow or whatever poison you've been feeding your mind with.
It is a sad reality that people like yourself are so blinded by your own political ideology that you can't even see the most basic truths in this world....it is beyond troubling that you can't even recognize that while you're claiming to be some great defender of liberty, you are advocating for protecting and freeing those very people who want nothing more than to destroy the very liberty you falsely claim to value. To put this as simply as I can...you're with us or your against us...and it's just too damn bad that you've chosen to turn your back on your country...i truly hope you find and cherish the "liberty" you so badly seek in the arms of your friends at al qauida or hamas or whatver other brand of terrorism you choose to embrace...let me know how that works out for you. At least you know you won't be alone in that position here at BO.

JJ: "Please dude....its time for you to hit the mute button on Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow..."

Would you care to enlighten us as to whom you might be listening to with the volume at full blast? Also, you have made a string of charges above without supporting data. Would you care to provide backup evidence?

JJ: "The reality is that the Americans whose liberty was most clearly infringed upon were the 3,000 or so who died that day in the towers, on the planes and in the pentagon."

Very true, JJ. I wonder how you feel about the 4,000-plus Americans who died in Iraq because of the illegal war the mendacious Bush Administration, a bi-partisan Congress, and a supporting cast from the corporate media waged on Iraq. Perhaps, in explaining this you might also toss in a few comments about the tens of thousands of U.S. military men and women who were permanently maimed, physically and psychologically as a peripheral consequence of this same misadventure. I won't trouble you for an explanation about the hundred of thousands of Iraqis who were killed and maimed or the millions who were displaced into refugee status, but if you get on one of your rolls and wish to share some profound thought on the subject, please feel free to do so.

Back to Health Care:

For me the choice is obvious. The private sector insurance companies primary purpose is to earn profits or margin above costs. The primary purpose for for a public plan is quality, affordable health care that puts the patient first. So the choice is simple.

PROFITS or PEOPLE

<h2>I choose people.</h2>