The wingers are coming! The wingers are coming!
Carla Axtman
It would seem our conservative brethren have decided that the best way to get out of their civilized society dues is the tossing of teabags at the post office.
Or at least that's what they're telling Sarah Mirk, who has the story at Blogtown:
I called up one of the Portland organizers, Karen Sweetland, to get the details on Portland's protest. They plan to meet at the downtown post office from 3-5PM on tax day and then head to Pioneer Square. "Are you going to actually throw teabags at the post office?" I asked. "I hope so!" replied Sweetland.The protest isn't just for people who refuse to pay taxes but anyone who's mad at the current administration's fiscal ideas. "You can bitch and complain and display your angst over any of it," Sweetland assured.
I think I might go just to bitch about how this crew is completely bastardizing the Boston Tea Party with their illegitimate garbage, but I haven't decided yet.
Their logo is, in a word: hilarious
Apparently this cadre didn't run this idea through the Urban Dictionary before deciding on the name (if you're easily offended, don't bother clicking).
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Apr 2, '09
Ah heck Carla, why did you have to spoil my fun by referencing Urban Dictionary. I had such a good insult for them and now it won't work.
2:24 p.m.
Apr 2, '09
This is a national trend. Odd that the same bunch is so vehemently against extending voting rights to D.C. residnets, but I doubt most of them know what the original Boston Tea Party was protesting anyway.
I'm sure the right-wing militia movement of the Clinton years will soon see a resurgence, too. What dingbats.
Apr 2, '09
The Clinton-era militias ARE seeing a resurgence, egged on by assorted GOP talking heads and elected officials. When one of the militia types finally snaps and commits murder and mayhem, however, the enablers will deny responsibility.
Apr 2, '09
Southern Poverty Law Center report on hate groups.
2:35 p.m.
Apr 2, '09
Democracy is wonderful! While in disagreement with their cause, I do celebrate their freedom to make this political theater. And my freedom to call them silly names in public for doing so. It is, after all, what we are fighting for all over the globe, and an appropriate action on tax filing day. We pay taxes in a democratic, civilized society so that some of us can do crazy things like this.
Apr 2, '09
Vu, the US Constitution is unambiguous about representative governments vs. pure democracy. Pass a constitutional amendment and you'll have an argument.
Dave, disagreement with their cause or with their political party affiliation? Are you saying you support record breaking deficits? Bush's deficit spending turned my stomach, so does Obama's. Obama ran on fiscal responsibility and his supporters promised me he'd do an about face with Bush's and the Republican's fiscal irresponsibility, not hit the accelerator while in the
Apr 2, '09
This shows you how the whole deal, especially this blog, has become "high school". The action itself wouldn't draw much attention. I don't follow any partisan hack and had to read most of this, trying to get it, before the realization dawned. Oh, this is about an established clique that has an agenda that the BO clique finds objectionable.
Dave is right. This would be entertaining political theatre, in a mature political environment, but we need to limit it to high school thinking. OK. It's like the nerds wearing blue as a gesture of solidarity. It's funny until the jocks and cheerleaders decide that it's..."well, ah, oh, what ARE they doing? I object. Do you know what they're doing? Someone stop them. You are stupid. So sad. Why don't you get a life?" Then it's just crappy old high school as usual. Can you not see that you are operating at no higher level?
Remove the personalities and there is nothing here. As BO posts go, that should guarantee a hearty number of responses. I guess those pricey journ progs for the well healed don't mention that ridicule doesn't constitute commentary. Hmmm. Nothing to say, but they get on the air anyway, and ridicule whatever strikes them as different, whatever they can not immediately grasp, whatever threatens their narrow view of party loyalty. Are we talking Victoria or Carla here?
As American democracy goes, which do you think people find easier to understand? Misguided or visionary fools (choose), protesting on tax day, or talking heads, political wannabees, presenting a different whipping boy everyday, as if it were news?
If we should dignify this as commentary, does that mean we should be seeing what Lars has to say about Blago today? Just how is this one bit better? Just responding to this makes me feel dirty. It's like haveing what seems like a perfectly good debate with a stranger in a bar about why Wyden did something and the person gets this hushed tone and tells you confidentially, "well, you know he's a Jew". We were talking about a policy. Why would I care? "But there's something you should know about him, before you trust him". That's what you're saying isn't it Carla? You're afraid that this might seem as Dave and I saw it, and you want to tell us, confidentially, "well, you know they're...". Or is the title an editorial announcement, and you left out the "h"s?
That is what Dems and Reps will never, never understand about Libertarians and progressives. We care not one iota about the cult of personality. We don't care if Blumenauer looks like Orville Reddenbacker, what Ralph Nader's grandma's politics were, or any other of the "can you believe he's a" variables that are supposed to make us stop listening to their platform. Is Steve M. in the room? Could you give us an example of how one is supposed to parse a position paper by commenting on Pavel Goberman? Ad Hominem, the advertising arm of BO.
No, they're not coming. The whingers are here.
4:37 p.m.
Apr 2, '09
Remove the personalities and there is nothing here. As BO posts go, that should guarantee a hearty number of responses. I guess those pricey journ progs for the well healed don't mention that ridicule doesn't constitute commentary. Hmmm. Nothing to say, but they get on the air anyway, and ridicule whatever strikes them as different, whatever they can not immediately grasp, whatever threatens their narrow view of party loyalty. Are we talking Victoria or Carla here?
Yet you went out of your way to read and leave a 511 word comment.
Thanks for slumming. :)
Apr 2, '09
Could you explain how this "bastardizes" the Boston Tea Party? Do you not explain why because that answer should be self evident?
Correct me where I'm wrong, but that was vandalism (or terrorism, pick your time/date/def), white men dressing as natives so natives would be blamed, perpetrated by business concerns that thought that ANY tax was too much (screw that the English had just financed their protection in the French and Indian War), just like today's corporate shrills. And don't even trot out the argument about representation. When did Catholics get the vote in Britain? Women? Jews? No, it was that our privileged 5% didn't get the same privileges as their privileged 5%. MOST people in Britain were taxed without representation. Also, given that a minister was supposed to be loyal to the crown, then the party, it's hard to say if that even qualifies as representation, in today's terms. Elizabeth I had influential guys that she thought were cute as a "privy council". Was that representation? If so, Salem has a seat on the Portland City Council. Sorry. Couldn't resist it.
(For the record, the protest was much like the recent beer tax debate here. It wasn't an outrageous idea. It was an outrageous amount, proposed for no better reason than the profligate gov needed the money, and dressed up with a bunch of insulting social commentary, but we're whiners and they're patriots. Learn some history.)
Do you know how many people in Parliament were friendly to the complaints? There were, literally, two men in England that didn't see it that way, George III and his PM. If a cricket ball hadn't killed his older brother, the whole thing never would have happened. Not that it ended up making a huge difference, either. The discovery of North Sea crude is the only thing that kept England from being the 52nd state, imhe. That's why the French originally vetoed their entry into the EU. The Gulf War didn't prove the Pentagon right, it proved de Gaulle right.
Point is, The Boston Tea Party was pointless, stupid, posturing between two out of touch guys and some typical American corporate types. Just how do you bastardize that? You really sound like this has become the stuff of hagiography, a kind of sacred narrative. We ignore that the whole story was also written by the perps. You certainly use the phrase as if it were a talisman of sorts. Just like the reprehensible right.
Actually, I might be the one missing the point. That cricket ball could be quite a talisman as well. Maybe get some gov money to build a cricket pitch and pavilion to house the sacred artifact. Yes, indeed, perhaps the Prince Of Wales Cricket Ground in lovely Gresham, Oregon, could be the second turf wicket in the US!
4:52 p.m.
Apr 2, '09
Could you explain how this "bastardizes" the Boston Tea Party? Do you not explain why because that answer should be self evident?
I provided a link to a wikipedia entry on The Boston Tea Party, which explains that the main reason for the event was a protest against taxation without representation for the Tea Tax. This seminal event in the American colonial era was a key event in the lead up to the Revolutionary War. And yeah, it's become the stuff of legends..which is some ways is how it helped sparked things forward. But the points they were making were legitimate.
This "tea party" is an effort to gin up outrage in an unfocused tantrum about Obama's fiscal plans. In other words, they're pissed that they lost the election and that a huge raft of the nation disagrees with them. This would be more appropriately called "The Teabag Tantrum".
I'm familiar with the English understanding of taxation and the colonies. It was the way things had always been, and George III didn't understand the problem. And instead of actually doing the smart thing (diplomacy), he sent soldiers and tried to mount a military offensive against an entrenched insurgency (ding!).
By the way, the whole "white men dressed as natives so natives could be blamed" is rather weak tea (so to speak). There were a few people who were kinda-sorta dressed up, but it wasn't many and based on my readings of how it went down, wouldn't have made too many folks believe that there'd been a native gate-crashing of Boston Harbor.
4:59 p.m.
Apr 2, '09
Point is, The Boston Tea Party was pointless, stupid, posturing between two out of touch guys and some typical American corporate types. Just how do you bastardize that? You really sound like this has become the stuff of hagiography, a kind of sacred narrative. We ignore that the whole story was also written by the perps. You certainly use the phrase as if it were a talisman of sorts. Just like the reprehensible right.
Umm..no.
The Boston Tea Party was the culmination of a bunch of taxes levied by Parliament, and the colonists had no representation in the body. It began with the Stamp Act and then the Declaratory Act (where Parliament maintained that it had the right to legislate for the colonies "in all cases whatsoever"). Then came the Townshend Revenue Act of 1767, which levied a whole bunch of new taxes. These were eventually repealed, with the exception of the tax on tea.
A few years later came the Tea Act, and that was basically the straw. It's not known whether Samuel Adams organized the raid, but he's credited with defending it far and wide.
Apr 2, '09
We should show up at the Post Office same bat time, same bat channel, with water and pitchers in hand and "recycle" those teabags into sun tea and point out how wasteful Republicans are in hard times like these. "Tsk Tsk" them right in front of their sputtering, rage filled faces.
Tell those right wingers that if life hand them lemons, recycle those lemons into lemonade... or sun tea, as it were.
Apr 2, '09
Frank has it just right.
Just watch out because these wingnuts are packing heat!
Apr 2, '09
The whole "Tea Party movement" is pretty absurd, though it's no more absurd than seeing progressives piously denigrate pointless protesting, overwrought drama, and idiotic street theatre.
I mean, that stuff's been your guys' stock in trade for decades. The world didn't begin on January 20th.
Apr 2, '09
I am one of those that has organized one of the hundreds of Tea Parties. Do not underestimate my rage at the concentrated trust and power you place in the federal government and the permanent damage this fiscal irresponsibility will cause. What made the Founding Fathers so unique was their understanding of the inevitable abuse of power and the need to constantly check this power. Irreversible precedent is being set. I swear I feel like I am living in the George Orwell prequel 1983. Government now bans certain foods, bails out for rich stockholders (many overseas) , taxes energy which drives the economy, puts a huge cigarette tax on the poor, owns the banks, car companies, tells businesses what they can make, and in 6 months has made sure the next coming generations will be tax slaves to 800 billion dollars of INTEREST per year alone. You are stealing from your children....stealing!
It is like Congress no longer exists except for sound clips and graft. Remember, it took the government 3 days to get water to the Superdome. For God's sakes, France thinks we are going too far....France!
6:21 p.m.
Apr 2, '09
I am one of those that has organized one of the hundreds of Tea Parties. Do not underestimate my rage at the concentrated trust and power you place in the federal government and the permanent damage this fiscal irresponsibility will cause.
Nobody says you're not pissed off, dude. In fact, I've pretty much copped to that in comments already.
What made the Founding Fathers so unique was their understanding of the inevitable abuse of power and the need to constantly check this power.
No. What made them unique was their ability to put together a workable Republic and give us the tools to maintain it "if we can keep it". It wasn't about "unchecked power". It was about the people (except for blacks, women and Native Americans, of course).
Government now bans certain foods, bails out for rich stockholders (many overseas) , taxes energy which drives the economy, puts a huge cigarette tax on the poor, owns the banks, car companies, tells businesses what they can make, and in 6 months has made sure the next coming generations will be tax slaves to 800 billion dollars of INTEREST per year alone. You are stealing from your children....stealing!
Yeah..you guys said that when Clinton raised taxes too..and then we blew right out of the national debt that Reagan and Bush 41 gave us. You'll forgive me if I don't buy your schtick.
It is like Congress no longer exists except for sound clips and graft. Remember, it took the government 3 days to get water to the Superdome. For God's sakes, France thinks we are going too far....France!
Yet under Clinton, FEMA managed to do a good job. Cuz when you hire people who don't believe in government to run government, they suck at it.
And on the France thing, Sarkozy seems pretty happy with Obama.
Apr 2, '09
Please don't lump me into "you guys." I personally believe Clinton was the best President since Truman. (pardon me, I have a soft spot for Harry!) Even though I thanked the stars that his healthcare plan went nowhere, I was pleased with his leadership, if not his character. (ok, you have an affair, but not IN the White House)
"We will spend 3 times the record amounts to cut the deficit." All I hear is two legs good, four legs bad.
6:45 p.m.
Apr 2, '09
I personally believe Clinton was the best President since Truman.
Then what's your problem with raising taxes? What's your problem with the current spending proposals? Obama has made it clear that his long term goal is to slash the deficit--and he's got plan laid out to do it.
?
Apr 2, '09
Republicans have leveled a volley of double cannister shot on Obama's Socialist tendancy.
Our position may be untenable for the short term, however, we will retreat to the heavily fortified breastworks and provide additional vollies for the Republic. Meanwhile, I will be looking for an American made flat screen Tv!
Keep your powder dry!
www.StephanAndrewBrodheadforcongress.com
Apr 2, '09
The sad thing is -- this "protest" will probably consume at least 15% of the "news" on our local stations, crowding out who knows what real news may be important to Oregon.
I'd add, that in the state where Ken Kesey and the merry pranksters once roamed, they have a long way to go to produce real theatre.
Apr 2, '09
Stephan Andrew Brodhead "Republicans have leveled a volley of double cannister shot on Obama's Socialist tendancy."
Republicans have done nothing but continue to reinforce their image of whiney, selfish people they always look like....
...and you wouldn't recognize a real socialist if Lenin rose from his tomb and bit you on the extreme left part of your left asscheek.
Apr 2, '09
Thomas "I am one of those that has organized one of the hundreds of Tea Parties. Do not underestimate my rage..."
Oh, please. I've seen what kind of protest right wingers organize. The only time you guys get more than a dozen people show up to one of your so-called "protests" is if some corporation has pulled out the checkbook and hired temps to show up at the event and pretend to be protesters.
We don't totally get your rage though. We fully understand the average right wingers sense of entitlement. That they are supposed to get the services a government provides without having to pay for those services. The minute anyone asks you to pay you fair share of the costs for maintaining the economic infrastructure of this country, you right wingers detonate.
Apr 2, '09
Typo in last paragraph 2nd word "don't" should be deleted
Apr 3, '09
Off topic comment deleted--editor
Apr 3, '09
"I am one of those that has organized one of the hundreds of Tea Parties. Do not underestimate my rage at the concentrated trust and power you place in the federal government and the permanent damage this fiscal irresponsibility will cause."
Unh huh. Bush and Cheney run roughshod using the power of the unitary executive for 8 years, trashed habeas corpus, ran the Iraq war as a black bag op with no budgetary over-sight, kept Congress like Paris Hilton keeps chihuahuas, and now all of a sudden you wanna pull a teabag out of your pants and toss it at the Federal Building? All of a sudden you're mad at the Fed? Give me a break...
Fiscal irresponsibility was gutting the regulatory framework so the extreme intervention by the Feds was necessary to bail out institutions "too large to fail". Not once (S&L crisis), not twice (Enron) but three times. Maybe you think the Founders baked fleecing into the constitutional cake, but hey, enough is enough.
Apr 3, '09
Carla,
Way to hate democracy and way to hate what this country was founded on.
instead of ragging on republicans maybe you should applaud them for gathering for a cause they believe in.
You make me sick.
10:01 a.m.
Apr 3, '09
Hey..thanks Dan!
Want me to pass you the barf bag? :)
11:02 a.m.
Apr 3, '09
Thomas, Glad you're supportive of our civil liberties. But where you all been the last 8 years, a cave? It is difficult to view seriously any complaint coming from the right against Constitutional abuses as a sincere outburst of principle after all that went on without a peep from them under Bush. Pardon me for seeing your tea parties as partisan posturing.
Johnnie, "Taxation without representation" is on the D.C. license plates, and with justification. It seems a group evoking the BTP would be sympathetic to an amendment in some way enfranchising D.C. residents (adding them to Maryland's population & delegation seems a reasonable compromise, for instance.) But of course the demographics of the current tea party types and the majority of D.C. residents get in the way of that, don't they?
Apr 3, '09
It is pitiful to see the R's resort to whipping up bogus outrage to attract supporters, having failed to come up with anything constructive to rally them around the flag. All they've got these days is "NO!"
Apr 3, '09
Vu -
Every Justice Dept since JFK has understood the legal context for representation is through Statehood and not through Federalism. The US Constitution is unambiguous.
Holder's actions has shown that the Dems are just as eager to politicize the Justice Dept. as the Repub's.
I don't know or would pretend to know that the BTP's would think regarding DC. I personally don't have an issue with Pelosi & Reid should cedeing land back to Virginia and Maryland and keeping the land the Federal Buildings occupy. If DC becomes their own State, perhaps Oregon and Washington should establish separate States east of the Cascades.
Regarding the BTP'ers I think it's funny that the Progressive here think their "outrage is bogus" since their outrage from their website is centered around the lurch leftward toward and Progressive and Socialist agenda, while adding and additional $9T in debt.
What gives? So do Progressive think a Progressive agenda isn't being implemented or do Progressive think their outrage is something other than what BTP's are espousing?
Remember it was Obama who stated clearly several times that he is a Progressive.
1:10 p.m.
Apr 3, '09
Regarding the BTP'ers I think it's funny that the Progressive here think their "outrage is bogus"
I don't think their outrage is bogus, I just think their outrage is about outrage and not issues. Like I said, where y'all stalwart defenders of the American way been the last 8 years? The timing tips your hand.
1:40 p.m.
Apr 3, '09
"Every Justice Dept since JFK has understood the legal context for representation is through Statehood and not through Federalism. The US Constitution is unambiguous.
Holder's actions has shown that the Dems are just as eager to politicize the Justice Dept. as the Repub's."
You are aware that the SCOTUS has defined DC as equivalent to a state on any number of occasions, right?
And yeah, that uberpartisan, Greg Holder. Imagine the nerve of taking a case against a Republican Senator, that the Bush Justice Department completely fucked up (intentionally?), and dismissing it even though the guy was quite obviously proven guilty! Send him to Gitmo!
2:19 p.m.
Apr 3, '09
Holder's actions has shown that the Dems are just as eager to politicize the Justice Dept. as the Repub's
Uh, that would be the same Holder who announced today the justice dept. would NOT being pursuing charges against disgraced Republican senator Ted Stevens, right? About which Stevens himself said, "[I am] grateful that the new team of responsible prosecutors at the Department of Justice has acknowledged that I did not receive a fair trial and has dismissed all the charges against me."
That's right--the "new team of responsible prosecutors."
Apr 3, '09
Sorry, but outrage supposedly prompted by the majority party pursing their partisan agenda by means less extreme and abusive of democratic principles than the previous Administration is bogus! It is merely sour grapes.
Apr 3, '09
Anyone taking bets on what the inflation rate will be in a couple of years?
4:01 p.m.
Apr 3, '09
The Libertarian Guy: Anyone taking bets on what the inflation rate will be in a couple of years?
No, because when you turn out to be wrong, you'll just ignore it and go on to the next inane attack or bizarre justification. Something like this:
Wingnuts: We predict massive inflation and economic doom and gloom if Democratic ideas are enacted. Democrats: Let's try and see. Reality, a few years later: Good markets, good jobs, good economy! Wingnuts: That's because of what Ronald Reagan did 35 years ago. Duuuuurrrrrrrr.
Come back in the next life when you have some credibility.
Apr 3, '09
TJ: "SCOTUS has defined DC as equivalent to a state"
So that's how a state is created, by SCOTUS. I guess I didn't fully understand how powerful SCOTUS is in taking on legislative power.
The Holder who usurped prior administrations legal theory on DC statehood was Eric Holder, the current AG. He's politicizing nearly as much as Gonzales. I think some newspapers called him Alberto Holder yesterday.
ED - Outrage by Bush's $500B deficit, justified. Outrage by Obama's $9T in total deficits under an 8 year term equals wingnuts. Where's the consistency? I'm outraged by both. Deficit spending is deficit spending and the problems associated with deficit spending is indifferent to a political party. If it's bad for one its bad for another. No matter how the Keynesian multiplier is being perverted for political ends.
Steve - many economists have said inflation is a real likelihood under the proposed budget. Liberals included. Again money is indifferent to political parties.
5:09 p.m.
Apr 3, '09
No jonnie, they don't create states--they just determine what is and isn't onefor the purposes of the Constitution. And they fairly consistently consider DC a state. You do understand that any challenge to DC voting would eventually be heard by SCOTUS, yes? That would make precedents on applications of statehood rather important.
I have a hard time believing you're really that economically ignorant, but deficit spending to reward the ultra wealthy and corporations and fight an illegal war, is a little different than deficit spending to invest in the rest of the country. The former leads to recessions and huge social ineqaulities; the latter gets us out of recessions and creates a fairer, more broadly effective economy.
Apr 3, '09
Steve you may want to look at the history of inflation and the money supply in America.
Personally I'm figuring on a doubling of prices, but let's remember the government has recalculated the way they figure inflation. That's to their benefit, not our and we are the only nation in the world reporting what we call "core inflation". Another scam.
And btw I am not a member of the cult of Reagan. Never have been. Never will be.
Apr 3, '09
TJ - one can argue that spending placed in the wrong or "unfair" money buckets. That's fine. But debt is debt no matter if you place more money in "fair" money buckets. It may be more fair, but that won't stop the debt and interest payments from mounting. The country as a whole will still have to pay it off no matter who got the money. But I'll try and use that arguement with my wife. Next time I use my credit card for some deficit spending, I'll tell her it's ok since, it isn't like I spent it in Vegas or contributed to the Republicans. Somehow I don't think that will fly.
Perhaps the fact that we will soon need to spend more money on a child's interest payment for the debt incurred than we will on their education. Obama is proposing more national debt than all prior administrations combined. Sad.
I'm no McCain fan, but his comment on the budget being generational theft was quite appropriate.
Money supply is through the roof, inflation always occurs when more money chases limited resources. Get your wheelbarrow ready...you'll need it to go purchase a loaf of bread.
1:08 p.m.
Apr 5, '09
Well, I will say this, TLG. While I disagree with them, Libertarians are the only honest conservatives.
But until we start undoing all the tax giveaways on the rich we've put into the tax code over the last 30 years, the poor and middle class will continue to be overtaxed to compensate. And that includes inflation, which is effectively just a currency tax.
8:59 a.m.
Apr 6, '09
Wikipedia aside, it's at least amusing that no one has discussed the fact that the original Tea Party was about the monopoly on shipping enjoyed by The East India Company and the the fact that the Crown was in the pockets of......well.......Large Corporations that got special treatment in exploiting consumers throughout the Empire, while small businesses had to resort to smuggling and tax evasion to make ends meet. The taxation without representation line, while factual, was a side issue to many of the good burghers of Boston......
This financial oligarchy was also one of the main targets of the Libertarian Saint Adam Smith in his book The Wealth of Nations.
Those who forget history are condemned to remain idiots I guess.
Apr 6, '09
Thanks for the comment Steve, but not all Libertarians consider themselves Conservatives. Many of us are from the left and are against the special favors granted to corporations by the government.
Privatizing the profits and socializing the liabilities seems to be the approach they have used for years and it is just wrong.
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