I can finally agree with something on here.

I hate the numerous phone books i get. Seriously we have the internet now phone books are useless.

I have got three already since this year began.

What a waste!

and another thing. we should eliminate junk mail. so much waste that i dont hardly read but just toss in the trash.

Eliminating phone books is a great idea. I have not used one in years. I use my computer or dial 411 on my cell phone.

You will be eliminating quite a few jobs. Lots of people are employed selling those clever "yellow page" advertisements to all the chiropractors, personal injury attorneys, siding companies, and dog groomers. Without universal distribution of the yellow-pages, I suspect the advertising rates would drop so low as to make publication of phone books an unprofitable activity for all concerned.

I agree with 99.9% of your post. Everything pertaining to the phone book and banning delivery of them without a specific request.

<italic>If I were governor, I'd create a moratorium on tree cutting in Oregon. I mean we want to continue living here, right?

I don't know the financial impact of that, or if your comment was even serious or just off the cuff. But I think the cost of shutting down the mills, logging trucks, loggers, logging towns, etc..... Ouch.

Actually, they are better than Presto Logs in the fireplace...and they're free...

Maybe we should just have the legislator prohibit the delivery of all hardcopy communications between people without their express written consent (electronic and with all the cost and economic discrimination that implies of course)? And they can call it a stimulus measure because then we can hire people to police the "No Written Communications" regulations. How about that too?

Albert, people like you, Jules, and Ben are starting to show how selfishly anti-social, and just plain stupid, the embarrassing fringe of the progressive movement have become. Clearly on the day God handed on IQ points, a whole group of people who later became childish left wing and right wing wingnuts just couldn't be bothered to get in line.

Of course, any person with an normal IQ would have reflexively realized that the adult way is to have an opt-out system (yes, I'd support that). Like a postcard attached to what presumably would be the last hardcopy of a phonebook you'd ever get and website for those who prefer to being wasteful consumers. It is arrogant jerkitude, something that also seems to be in overabundence in the NW, maybe because it is connected with moss and brain-decay, to even assert you should be making the opt-out decision for others in our form of democracy and instead force them to opt-in.

You put your name on a list to get a phone-book, you recycled tree terrorist, we've keeping our eyes on you!

God help us, are there any adults with an normal IQ left in the Democratic Party or the Republican Party to put the stupid, bratty children in time out? Unfortunately, it appears increasingly to not be the case since most of our legislators are, like Ben, pulling all kind of idiocy out of their backside in this session because they really doesn't have the capability to do anything else except try to get their name in the press. They just don't realize how stupid and ugly they are making themselves look.

Bravo! Next we can begin to work on eliminating the number of political ads we get in the mail around election time.

Last time I used a phone book was 2001. My Internet connection was down and I needed to look something up. Since then, I've had a phone with a data plan.

I actually would love to stop getting these things, really, I would. But they just keep coming, and they keep cluttering up my recycling area. I always forget to bring them out, and for half a second, think I might possibly have a use for them, so they stay. Even then, all that information is online and it's much quicker to get what I want.

"Of course, any person with an normal IQ would have reflexively realized that the adult way is to have an opt-out system"

torridjoe, you're a one of the net addicts do your own research on the sociology of opt-out and opt-in instead of being passive-aggressive and/or lazy expecting others to do your work for you. Or just read the rest of the comment. Those of us who are well-versed in the politics and sociology of participation and consent are quite comfortable in the social justice of the opt-out approach as the progressive approach in this case and of the opt-in as the typically NW regressive approach.

In other words, I don't have to convince you, I just need to make sure the decision makers know they are going to be publicly exposed as jackasses if they listen to the stupid-contingent of the peers.

This seems rather heavy handed and unnecessary. Isn't this phone book distribution just plain old littering? What's the difference? If I left a phone book in Pioneer Square, that would be littering. Is my porch some sort of designated literature dropoff point?

And why single out phone books? After I bought a house, I got unsolicited copies of the Oregonian for a while, which I hated just as much. (I successfully composted them.) And I'd just as soon have get copies of The Watchtower stuck in my door. I don't believe any of this constitutes protected free speech, really.

And while we're at it, can we finally stop subsidizing junk mail delivery?

I don't believe any of this constitutes protected free speech, really.

The beauty of Joel H's comment is that some can read it as completely serious endorsement of their position, and some can read it as a very subtle "Modest Proposal". (Court decisions aside).

For Joel, that either means s/he is a master of the language, or completely oblivious.

Touche' Joel for the most enigmatic comment in this thread and I'll bet the blogosphere today!

Anybody able to puzzle out with Joel H's contribution how opt-out for sure sidesteps any free speech issues while opt-in steps right in the middle of a free-speech cowpie?

Save A Tree - Ban Books! And Free Newspapers!

Save a Tree -- Suppose thousands of us pulled a "Miracle on 34th Street" move and, all at once, dumped the phone books we receive on YOUR porch, burying your front door in yellow pages. Would that still be free speech? Send me a postcard if you'd like to opt out.

Truly Amazing. How many jobs are you proposing to eliminate and what will be the cost to the taxpayers to support those who lose their jobs?

Yeah Ban Books! dude:

Of course, any person with an normal IQ would have reflexively realized that the adult way would have been not to invaded Iraq, not hired political flunkies as the head of FEMA, and not authorized the torture of anyone anywhere.

But what do I know - I'm just an embarrassing fringe member of the progressive movement.

I strongly doubt this legislation would prohibit Qwest from sending their customers phone books, which I as I recall you actually do explicitly request when you sign up for landline service.

I like the opt-in idea. Also, I used a phone book last week and for those of you who may be wondering, I do have a cell phone, (3G network even) and internet service.

Qwest will never go along. There have been no phonebooks for years. I lived across the street from what was listed in that piece of crap they throw against your door for five years, and it had been out of business for 3 years before I moved there. As of last month's update, it is still listed.

It is packaged to resemble a phone book, so that they can toss reams of advertising at your door. Ditto the Oregonian and their "free papers". I have fought as an apartment dwellers advocate for 15 years and have beat my head against the wall on both of those.

Bottom line is they don't give a shit. Opt out? Just why can't an apartment complex manager or homeowner serve them notice that they don't want that trash on their property? More and more "progressive" legislation is about writing new laws to circumvent the ones that aren't honored.

And it's worse on the environment than you think. 99% of those "deliveries" are by unemployed folks that fire up the old oil burner to make a short trip with lots and lots of stops, the best way to pollute with a motor vehicle. Everything Qwest does is a fraud. Why should the directories be different? For years they were too good to pay the municipal franchise tax. Analyze the statement "we don't sell your number to marketers" sometime. Except for their partners, which is every loathsome saturation marketer on the planet.

Of course, any person with an normal IQ would have reflexively realized that the adult way would have been not to invaded Iraq, not hired political flunkies as the head of FEMA, and not authorized the torture of anyone anywhere.

Scott in Damascus. I agree with you 100% on this and raise you one more stupid war I opposed in Afghanistan from day we knew a lot of the right and left were going to do something stupider than Iraq.

I also think we have a brain-dead jackass contingent on our side that are as brain-dead as the jackass contingent on the right. And "You Just Might Be A B-D J-A ... If" you jump from someone calling BS on this dumbass OPT-IN phonebook proposal, (and in fact only to the B-D J-A OPT-IN part but who supports it if it is OPT-OUT, to the conclusion someone is a right-wing supporter of war, torture, the craven destruction of New Orleans, etc., etc.

Suppose thousands of us pulled a "Miracle on 34th Street" move and, all at once, dumped the phone books we receive on YOUR porch, burying your front door in yellow pages.

Joel H., you still manage, barely, to hang on to the distinction of having the most enigmatic comment on the web today. Just to help you retain that distinction rather than resolve it towards an unfavorable answer of "You Might Be A B-D J-A .... If", there is a little bit of difference between three entities (that's how many phonebooks I get) over the course of twelve months giving me a phonebook (which I happen to use a lot), and a bunch of clowns from the B-D J-A contingent of the left dropping tens of phonebooks on anyone's porch as a B-D J-A protest. There is a little thing in the free speech laws as they have come to be exercised known as reasonable "time, place, and manner" restrictions.

torridjoe, you and Kari have already provided an answer to the question "You Might be a B-D J-A ... If" question with your comments. But you're bloggers who, like Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, and the B-D J-A bloggers on the right, recognize being a B-D J-A on the left is better than almost any to build a valuable personal brand on the internet.

NO torridjoe you don't know the sociological assumptions and biases implicit in the different between "opt-out" and "opt-in" in this case. Here's two hints for those who really don't think it's cool, yuk, yuk, to be in the crowd who proudly self-identifies with "You Might be a B-D J-A .. if":

Hint #1: Read again the selfish, oblivious arguments the majority of supporters are giving here why they don't need a phonebook.

Hint #2: It doesn't have anything to do with the fact they are so oblivious and anti-social they never need to find out a phone number or address they don't know.

Save A Tree! --- Ban Books! (Poor People - Buy More Electronics You Can't Afford, Manufactured by Low-Paid Wage Slaves In China Who Got Your Jobs! It's A Stimulus Plan!)

Here is a problem with doing away with them: it is getting harder and harder to find a tel number that is correct online, particularly when it is for a business. How many times did you try to call Providence, selected the MAIN number or the one you wanted, and some grandma in billing kindly told you it was never this number; or got a fax screa;m in your ear; or were bothering the frantic triage nurse in the middle of an ER mosh pit scene? If you want to do away wiht those tel books, then attend to the alternative: paying for the access and no accountability on the parts of those already offering half-assed internet tel search...

I use the yellow pages frequently - and I'm a frequent user of web info, so I'm no Luddite. My problem with the phone books is the proliferation of versions - none of which compare well to the old monopoly.

I like using the Yellow pages, I feel I get more info from them (especially for businesses that don't have a web presence), and I get frustrated by the online services. I like to browse, I like to see my local businesses, and I don't want a lot of things that don't apply to my search.

If the yellow pages were a truly comprehensive listing of local businesses and they had an opt out clause for those who don't want their info on paper, I think it would be the best of all worlds. But this isn't that world, so I'll live with what we have.

I do agree with a comment above, though: please don't deny people something they use, just because you don't. An informal poll on a blog (Yes, David Pogue is doing the same thing) self-selects for just those kind of folks who say it isn't needed.

I use the phone book and the yellow pages. Since I only have a very slow land line internet connection at home, so it is much easier to use the paper version of the phone book/yellow pages.

I would support an opt out system, where you would include a postcard in each copy of the phone book which you can send back to opt out.

As for an opt in system how would you organize it?

PS: I also like the smell of the phone book.

I have heard a lot of well intended comments here but remember, all the problem with too many telephone directories started to be a problem when people were getting so many. In other words, the only people that should be putting out a telephone directory are telephone companies. Duh?!?! Every house gets one comprehensive official telephone directory from the telephone company governed (as always) by ther PSC (Public Service Commission). I heard one person give an example that they received seven different telephone books so far this year. Well, based on that number you could eliminate 85% of your problem without doing away with the origianl search engine...the Yellow Pages. Sounds to me like a more than reasonable compromise instead of an all or nothing approach.

Unfortunately, it does appear that the use of littering laws and special ordinances to stop advertisers (and political protesters, and the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society) from dumping their trash on private property has a long history of being overturned on First Amendement grounds:

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=3046

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=308&invol=147

Okay, maybe I'm a hopeless fogey, but I still use the phone book quite often. It's often quicker and more convenient than searching for a number on line. And it's portable.

That said, I see no reason to have two, three, four or more different printed phone books delivered to my house

What has barely been mentioned in this discussion is why is the legislature's job to decide which areas of commerce are good and bad, and then insert the government into the equation? Where would this stop?

If phone books are a "waste," then so too are dozens, if not hundreds of other commercial endeavors that use resources to provide unsolicited advertisements.

Will we ban those too? Remember, folks, this is commerce. That means people are employed by selling the ads, and businesses find those ads effective enough to buy them. Others are employed printing, and distributing the books. Others are employed producing and selling the raw materials that go into them.

So we are just going to shut this down because in the judgement of the legislature it is wasteful?

Anybody have any other job-killing ideas, since we have such a surplus of jobs here in Oregon, now is a great time to cut the ones we really don't like.

Sheesh.

Albert, how gald we are that you ARE NOT governor. People like you would balkanize the majority of Oregon and attempt to round us all up for the cities of Portland, Eugene and Salem.

For the record, I used our phonebook this morning. A panic call from a High School Senior working on his Senior Project had me calling around to try and get him help this morning because half of his folks bailed on him.

So far this seems to have partially worked for us -- we haven't received any real phone books since requesting that they stop.

http://www.yellowpagesgoesgreen.org/

We're still getting the off-brand ripoff books.

While we're tinkering with phone directories, we can also make an improvement by no longer violating peoples' privacy by making them pay to be unlisted.

The Lege should direct the PUC to modify the utility rules to limit directory listings to residences who have specifically consent to be listed. You should have the same privacy rights in your phone number as you do for your video rentals -- i.e., it's not the phone company's property to sell, it's yours. If you want to share your number with others, great; but if not, then you shouldn't have to pay for privacy.

If anyone in Salem really gave a damn what people think or about the ENVIRONMENT there would be a video link to each city hall from Salem so we could testify on important bills(without having to drive there). The truth is they care about neither the public or the environment so they take up little BS pet issues like this so they can pretend to save the earth. I imagine what is really going on is that the phone book printing company is a month late on their P.A.C. donation to the usual suspects. This bill will probably got hatched to remind them to send it in.

Terry O. writes, "If I were governor, I'd create a moratorium on tree cutting in Oregon."

Thank god you're not! We have 10%+ unemployment and you want to destroy one of the few industries left that actually produce your "living wage." You also must hate public education since a lot of it is financed by timber severance taxes in rural counties.

Let me guess, you live in Portland...

Oregon has a Constitution with more protections than that provided by the U.S. Constitution. So, talk of whether or not this meets "free speech" standards is sort of beside the point when Oregon protects "free expression". When you start to contemplate all the expressive ad content contained inside each phone book, it's pretty obvious this bill has an Oregon Constitution problem.

Sound like good legislation.

Was this inspired by the Sir Mix-A-Lot Burger King Commercial?

And, to Old Ducker - I think we're in a crisis situation today where oxygen may be more important than jobs.

Spoke like a public employee. Are you? I nominate your job to be the first casualty.

What needs to be stopped is all that social engineering junk and propaganda that comes with utility bills including from the Portland Water Bureau, PGE, Pacific Power, NW Natural Gas and others. Some people actually use phone books.

I did my part and contacted my state rep in OR, and also for my mom in WA suggested the legislation to her reps.

And I didn't read all the comments - but it sounds like some people who use phone books need to realize that this isn't doing away with phone books - it's just that now you have to ask for one rather than get it automatically, so you can still get a phone book, just you wont if you don't want it or use it. Sounds fair I think.

All books (of all kinds) should be eliminated from shcools too thereby saving the taxpayers millions of dollars. Schools have computers don't they? There is no need for taxpayers to fund both!!!