The Salem event certainly went off peacefully...

But it seems like the crowd (no WAY it was 4,000) was made up of several different constituencies. Sure there was the common thread of "I don't like paying taxes" (who does?) But I think it's telling that there were groups of anti-choicers, people advocating for implementation of fire-n-brimstone "Christian" law, anti-immigrant groups, etc. There were also a few racially-motivated signs (one suggested that Obama go "home" to Kenya) that seemed to disappear after a little while.

There were a number of extremely rude and agressive people there... But the majority were very polite families that just wanted to make a peaceful, unified statement.

Notwithstanding the overly-angry guys with pitchforks, I was very proud to live in a society in which we allow that kind of protest and assembly.

Italics off... I hope.

"Hey, you know something people? I'm not black But there's a whole lots a times I wish I could say I'm not white."

Frank Zappa Trouble coming every day.

15 percent pay 85 percent of taxation. Make them pay more and they will just take their toys and go home. This will leave you non self starting Obamunist clones with a bucket and no shovel in the sandbox of liberal tax and spend. How do you think Obama will pay for 8 trillion in spending? You are the most gullible people I have ever heard of!

It beautiful outside!

If you think taxation is so great, why not send in 5 grand extra to make up for us Republicans? Get back with me when you have made a extra donation comrades!

My wife and I see less than 44 percent of our income after state and federal taxes. If we add rental property taxes, we are down to 20 percent. Should we give them 10 percent more or replace a few stoves and fridges? Maybe we should get the renters pay to replace the stove!

How is the view from your low income housing unit kevage? Have you spent your 7eleven paycheck yet?

Meanwhile here are some photos of WHAT REAL PROTEST LOOKS LIKE.

SAB said: "My wife and I see less than 44 percent of our income after state and federal taxes."

Fire your accountant. (Especially if you are your own accountant.)

These protesters are the people that have no one to blame but their own lazy, selfish selves. They foolishly and selfishly passed measures like M5 and then wonder why there isn't any money now to subsidize or continue what they feel they need. They cut off their noses to spite thier faces and now want the nose back after the nose has been thrown away.

Until we repeal M5 and other shortsighted and selfish measures, we will still have to facen and deal with what selfish, petty, and short sighted people have given us.

I watched some video from the Seattle teabag event. A speaker was loudly cheered when he said that the #1 thing for Uncle Sam to do was get rid of--you guessed it--capital gains taxes. Brilliant. Of course this is what the teabaggers' wealthy handlers--the Richard Mellon Scaifes, the Dick Armeys--really want.

The teabaggers essentially echo the Libertarian line that "taxation is theft." For me, taxation is paying my membership dues to be part of society. Hard to see how to bring this gap, especially when the modern GOP is fully committed to demonizing all functions of government that do not involve high explosives or manacles.

"The one woman complained under her breath that she'd been teaching that song to kids for 20 years"

So unlikely...

Robert Reich has figured it out:

1. "Americans pay too much in taxes." Wrong: The United States has the lowest taxes of all developed nations.

2. "The rich pay too much! The top ten percent of income earners pay over 72 percent of all income taxes!" Misleading: The main reason the rich pay such a large percent is they've become so much richer ... in recent years. If you look at what they pay as individuals ... you'll see a steady decline over the years. ...

3. "The bottom 60 percent pay only 3.3 percent of the taxes!" Misleading again. Most Americans are paying more in sales taxes than they ever have. Property taxes have also been rising at a steady clip. And Social Security taxes have also risen (thanks to the Greenspan Commission), while earnings over about $100,000 aren't subject to Social Security taxes. So-called "sin" taxes (mostly beer and cigarettes) have also skyrocketed. All of these taxes take a bigger bite out of the paychecks of people with lower incomes than they do people with higher incomes.

4. "Obama is raising your taxes!" Wrong. Obama is cutting taxes for 95 percent of Americans, by about $400 per person a year... Only the top 2 percent will have a tax increase, but even this tax increase is modest. Basically, they go back to the rates they were paying under Bill Clinton... And they won't start paying this until 2011 anyway.

5. "The huge debts we're wracking up will cause your taxes to rise!" Wrong again. When it comes to the national debt, as I've said before, the relevant statistic is the ratio of debt to the gross domestic product. The only sure way to bring that debt down and make it manageable in future years is to get the economy growing again -- which requires that, in the short term, the government spend a lot of money... In the long term, the biggest source of concern is rising health-care costs. And that's something Obama and Congress are aiming to tackle.

6. "We have a patriotic duty to stand up against Washington taxes!" Just the opposite. We have a patriotic duty to pay taxes. ... President Teddy Roosevelt made the case in 1906 when he argued in favor of continuing the inheritance tax. "The man of great wealth owes a particular obligation to the state because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."

More false diatribe from De La Kevin!

I am still trying to proccess the blogger that stated " I am ashamed of being white!"

So now: Republicans didnt vote for Obama because he was Black!

Now Rascist White Republican Tea Partiers will not pay Obama taxation because they are racist?

So now because I am white, I should be ashamed, and if I do not give into tax and spend socialism, I am a skinhead?

This "Yes we can Acorn Obama style racial manipulation" has gone far enough!

How dare you!

will California become a Nation State because of Obama guilt complex? Will California and all border states go the way of Rhodesia, Germany, France, Boznia, Chechnya, and all other world nation states? One people one language! All immigrants are welcome here!

Please read up on your histroy and maybe a little Hobbs and Morgenthau!

Have any of you liberals donated more money to Obama big government yet?

Your so supportive of big government, maybe you should stop paying your rent and car payment and give it to the Messiah of tax and spend!

You should feel guilty for just being white and not paying more taxes!

So instead of paying off your credit card with your little tax return, just give it to Obama! It will make you feel better.

Just as you copped into the Obama view of Iraq ( now he is there to stay), when he raises taxes on everyone, you will quickly cop out on taxes too!

My question for you, Broadhead, is what flavor of Kool Aid you drinking now? You need to cut your dosage.

For all the wingnut troll spammers, why is the GOP now the party of secession? I thought the Pledge of Allegiance said something about the USA being One and Indivisible. Now we have Texas Gov. Rick Perry and the Georgia Senate making common cause with treason and sedition, seceding from the Union, using KKK dog whistle states rights politics. I guess old habits never die. So is the GOP back into the right wing militia movements, the Christian Patriot bombers and bank robbers? http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/16/georgia-senate-threatens-dismantling-of-usa/?cxntfid=blogs_jay_bookman_blog

Billy: "For all the wingnut troll spammers, why is the GOP now the party of secession? "

Me: It's not. You can't take a few comments and extrapolate it across a political party and then assume they'd vote that way. Why didn't the progressive move to Canada as they threatened to in 2004?

Vu, you can take off your tin hat now. The radio transmissions has been turned off, so there's not a chance you'd be controlled the Armey Cabal into joining the faux grassroots event. I guess grassroots term is trademarked by the Soros cabal.

Hi Carla,

Geoff Ludt here.

I organized the Portland event and coordinated the 22 events statewide. I read your post and appreciate your point of view. I believe my comments read at the event answer your points fairly well.

If you are interested, here is the transcript:

"Hello.

Thank you for coming today.

Your presence here is joined by at least 21 cities throughout Oregon, hundreds of cities nationally and potentially millions of patriots nationwide.

Let me start off by saying that this is a non-partisan event.

While our opposition would like to brand the Tax Day Tea Party events as “right-wing extremists” and tie it with hate groups, one look at this crowd and it is clear that we come from all walks of life and represent good, working Americans.

Additionally, we did not just “arrive” here. The public sector has been encroaching on the private sector as long as I care to remember, at least as far back as the Wilson administration.

So, this isn’t a left vs. right thing. As has been noted, “I’d like to suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There’s only an up or down—[up] man’s … [age-old]… dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order, or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. And regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for [economic] security have embarked on this downward course.”

We come for personal reasons.

For me it was the realization that posterity, represented by my children’s, children’s, children’s, children has had its Liberty compromised. That my two year old little boy, while he plays and lives peacefully, is unaware that a portion of his liberty will be directed to interest service and inflation to pay the tab on this wholesale intrusion by the public sector into the private sector.

This isn’t a left vs. right thing. It’s an us VS. them thing. Us VS. an elite class of non-representing, representatives. Here in Portland, down in Salem, and all the way across the US in Washington DC.

I’ve been asked, what are we doing with these “Tea Parties”? To which I respond, “Isn’t it obvious? We’re assembling a coalition of talented, activated people and, together, we are going to set agendas, execute plans and succeed in returning Portland and Oregon and the United States to the path of individual Liberty and accountability that has been the backbone of this country since it’s founding.”

To that end, tonight you will have the opportunity to share contact information with us, I ask you to register with our canvassers as they make rounds through the crowd. Our canvassers can be identified by t-shirts and “Tax Day Tea Party” credentials matching what I am wearing. If you are approached by ANYONE else keep in mind that they are not with the organization of common folks that came together here today.

Additionally, if you have a cellphone, please text the word “teaparty” to 69302 and you will receive periodic updates regarding meetings and events.

Thank you."

A video from the Pensacola teabagging event, where an unemployed guy gets up to the podium and reminds the crowd of the fact that in 2000 we had a budget surplus and the Bushites proceeded to double the national debt. He also asks for a show of hands of those who make less than $250 thousand a year, and reminds them all they just got a tax cut. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOwsIIIe5I&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2009%2F4%2F16%2F720820%2F-Yeah%2C-Im-the-guy-who-spoke-at-the-Pensacola-Tea-Party&feature=player_embedded

Which explains why our economy boomed during the 50s and 60s when taxes, especially for the wealthiest, were MUCH higher.

Correlation does not equal causation.

The funny thing about "eye witness" accounts, is that they aren't always correct. Remember that Brady Bunch episode when Cindy was sure she saw the awful bad man run into her mom's car, but as it turned out she was too busy eating her ice cream to know what really happened? Next time, try some fact checking like a real journalist, or publish your article after the event has already happened (I will give credit that you didn't succumb to this temptation), or even better: Brush up on your counting skills before you embarrass yourself.

Name your party, name your candidate, I couldn't care less. Any of them who propose to run the federal government in any fashion not proscribed by the Constitution is a traitor, a thief, and a part of the problem. You want reform? Force Congress to actually abide by Article I of the Constitution AND NO MORE. Prevent them from legislating anything that they "shall make no law" regarding. Watch your taxes fall like a stone and your freedom grow exponentially.

Now, if you REALLY want to fire people up, eliminate withholding taxes and make them actually PAY their taxes out of pocket. Open their eyes to the myth known as "take home pay." Make Americans actually write a check to Uncle Sam, and let them absorb the reality as they look down at the number, written in their own hand. Let them consider how many mortgage payments or trips to the dentist that number represents. Pitchforks and torches on the Capitol steps by nightfall, guaranteed.

We know all this. You do not. You will learn. The Obama administration is no friend of yours, either. Wake up.

Been smokin pot with the rest of the leftist loons, or are you just a fool? My husband voted for Obama...he was one of the loudest voices in the crowd last night. You see, he is a veteran, and he feels Obama has spit on the graves of our fallen soldiers since the day he took office.
Keep drinking the CNN kool-aid while the rest of the country wakes up.

Hey Carla, I am that well mannered young man that you talked to about Japan's economic collapse. Here is a New York Times (Sorry to disappoint you that it wasn't a right wing source) article concerning the subject. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/world/asia/06japan.html?_r=1&em

An excerpt you might find enlightening...

"Japan’s rural areas have been paved over and filled in with roads, dams and other big infrastructure projects, the legacy of trillions of dollars spent to lift the economy from a severe downturn caused by the bursting of a real estate bubble in the late 1980s. During those nearly two decades, Japan accumulated the largest public debt in the developed world — totaling 180 percent of its $5.5 trillion economy — while failing to generate a convincing recovery. … In the end, say economists, it was not public works but an expensive cleanup of the debt-ridden banking system, combined with growing exports to China and the United States, that brought a close to Japan’s Lost Decade. This has led many to conclude that spending did little more than sink Japan deeply into debt, leaving an enormous tax burden for future generations."

But don't mind me, I am just a "misinformed" independent thinker who doesn't like insane government spending. I didn't like it under Bush, and I don't under Obama. Nice hit piece by the way. I could pick you out a mile away with your cute little peace shirt hidden underneath your jacket. I knew you were there to spin your version of the event. Kind of like the guy I saw posing as a tax protester with the "f*#@ the poor" sign. He left right after his buddy took Pic. than they ran off laughing. Come on, lady. You, as a liberal, passionately respect the right of your peers to protest, why do you have to denigrate those with different views that protest?

Hey Joe:

We already saw what we were getting for our tax dollars and took to the streets. But that was months ago - it was called ELECTION NIGHT. And instead of pitchforks, we used what is commonly referred to as "a ballot."

Didn't you get the memo?

There are lots of little arguments going on but I would just like to point out that yesterdays rallies were a HUGE success. There were at least 8k people in pioneer square, liberals are s** themselfs with fear right about now. Now feel free to pick apart grammar/spelling whatever you guys do best...go!

"And yet the fact remains that income taxes were s-i-g-n-i-f-i-c-a-n-t-l-y higher during America's economic Golden Age than they are now."

And yet the fact remains that as the number of pirates in the world decreased, the average global temperature increased.

here

To Erik - Excellent response. Right on the money...

Carla, I guess you and I weren't at the same Portland rally because what I saw and heard is completely inconsistent with your recount of the evenings event. Perhaps you should learn to count, report responsibly and have your facts straight. I respect your right to your opinion, as you should mine. Just to let you know, I'm not a conservative, right-winger.

you know you hit a nerve when your post is yanked in less than 30 seconds

Hey bowhunter and katie:

The absolute highest headcount reported for the Portland teabagging event was 1,000.

That's o-n-e-t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d-p-e-o-p-l-e.

Are you confusing teabagging with the Trailblazer rally yesterday?

Perhaps, in your words, you should learn to count.

"It's hard to talk when you're tea-bagging." - Anderson Cooper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64Ed5iLu4M&feature=player_embedded

Scott, if you think my anger at what goes on in Washington is in any way related to which letter of the alphabet appears in those parentheses at the end of an elected official's name, you are missing the entire point, my friend. Do I vote for a Democrat who spends like a drunken sailor and wipes his ass with the Constitution, or a Republican who spends like a drunken Democrat and merely blows his nose with it?

I understand the capacity of Pioneer Courthouse square is somewhere around 9000. I was there. It was packed. You could hardly see a brick. I am a firsthand source, my friend, and you are mistaken. Perhaps even willfully ignorant, I don't know, but wrong nonetheless. I'm not saying there were 9000 people there, but to say, as did the Oregonian, that "over a thousand people" were there - how condescending and spin-laden. You may as well say over a dozen.

Some of your people are really inappropriate. You keep calling people at these rallies "tea-baggers". How would you like it if I called you, your mom, or your child a "tea-bagger"? Show some common decency and use the appropriate terms (in this case, "Tea Partier" would be the appropriate term of art).

I think that "anti-teabagger" is actually more apt. As in, "Get the government's genitals out of my face."

hey scott did you get that number from the oregonian, haha, pathetic

Scott et al

I personaly counted out 1000 people in a swath across one side of Pioneer CH square. I then projected that swath could be repeated 4 to 5 times.
With people around the edges and those who came at different times I'd place the crowd at around 5000. But I suppoose it could have been 4000?

That's hardly scientific or conclusive, but any claim there was only 1000 there is worse than pathetic. It is deliberate, sleazy politics. So what's new?

1000, 4000, 9000... who cares?

Fact of the matter is, the people in the rallies aren't undecided voters. The undecided voters -- those in the moderate middle -- are seeing Republicans at these rallies associated with signs that say "Obama go home to Kenya". Brilliant move.

So at the end of the day, which party do you REALLY think is going to see a net gain in their electoral fortunes, hmm?

I guarantee that "pay less in taxes" is a concept that undecided voters have already considered. But they haven't considered what that concept looks like with racism, pitchforks, and brimstone.

So as a left-leaning voter, I implore you: Hold more of these kind of events. Bring the craziest, angriest conservatives you can find. Have them say the most hateful things while implying violence and thinly-veiled racism. And please broadcast this so that every undecided voter gets to see it. Please!

Pioneer Courthouse Square puts attendance over 5000. More than three times what we expected. It was fun.

What happened to journalistic ethics? The report I read about by a reporter who obviously flunked Journalism ethics is pathetic. I was at Pioneer Square on the 15th from 6-8 pm. What I saw with my eyes was in direct contrast to what was reported - Pathetically so. Professional journalism never showed its face. That is simply sad commentary. And newspapers actually lament the fact that subscriptions are declining. It is no wonder. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. Wake up AMERICA and do the math on tax and spend. And, please, Carla, learn how to count first!

In Salem after 3 when the Raly was over, I went over to the booth where people signed a up for this event and counted over 3,100 names on that sheet.

Far Lefties take note, Every City and Town in every state had a T.E.A. party.

We have no Balance in our Government, as I warned, and the Party in control here and in DC have proposed spending and Taxes greater than ever in all of American history, in only 3 months, and We the People will not forget in 2010 or 2012.

I brought 1,500 Flyers to educate people on the costs of In-State Tuition for Illegal aliens being considered now and that there are two Bills sitting here in a committee, that our spineless leader Dave Hunt is hiding, to prevent Illegal aliens from stealing much needed jobs and not paying taxes. They were all handed out before everyone had arrived, by noon.

Yes the Pres. did Temporarily lower payroll Taxes, but he also got us in the hole for Trillions more and our State leaders have proposed over 65 bills to raise the Fees and Taxes of even the "Working Poor" i.e. Cig's, Beer, Birdseed, Home purchases, Death certificates, etc. etc.

Yes, unlike you Wacko's Obama IS my Pres. and Yes Bush did spend too much and thats why you D's are temporaily in power, but you're blowing it and doing the same, as anticipated, and it won't last long, fortunately.

Rick, we've all heard that line before. Yadda yadda.

Also, if you insist on living in America, I must insist that you learn English. There are certain spelling and grammar conventions by which most of us attempt to abide.

Not that you care about being accurate, but you're way wrong about Japan. They spent trillions to pave over their country for nothing. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument or anything.

No way was there 4,000 at Pioneer Courthouse Square. I knew Taft would exaggerate the numbers, so I check out the protest from KGW's Web cam. The square was not totally filled.

video of the PDX Tax Day Tea Party: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZHLHGirAs

MP: define s-i-g-n-i-f-i-c-a-n-t-l-y please.

Was it say, $10T more?

I'm guess no. There isn't a tax rate high enough to pay for Obama's budget let alone the spending Bush, Obama & Co. have yet to inject with TARP and "stimulus".

My favorite sign: "Print your own Tax money"

I don't know why people always devolve into critiquing each other's grammar, education, etc. when commenting on blogs. It doesn't really prove much except people resort all too quickly to ad hominem when pressed.

Anyway, I work on the mall and I walked by the event on the way for coffee. I haven't seen too many protests on the Capitol steps to compare, but this one certainly wasn't massive (I won't claim to be able to count how many people were there). I do know the immigration rallies tend to be bigger. The crowd was pretty sedate for wanting to revolt or separate, or whatever, but I suppose that comes from the demographics (I saw a lot of older people and people with small kids).

While I think this was a lot of manufactured angst, at least the people had a peaceable outlet.

And yet the fact remains that income taxes were s-i-g-n-i-f-i-c-a-n-t-l-y higher during America's economic Golden Age than they are now.

And?

A stupid person could make the point that the economy was booming during Jim Crow and would be no more right than you are. Simply pointing out that two things happened at the same time is absolutely meaningless.

Correlation. Does. Not. Equal. Causation.

"Correlation. Does. Not. Equal. Causation."

Didn't take the class after Stats 101, did you?

What's being done here is not a hypothesis test, but rather a testing of the Null Hypothesis.

If someone puts forth a statement to the effect of "High taxes result in a poor economy," then we can test whether that's necessarily true by identifying a period of high taxes and what the resulting economy was like. It's NOT proving the converse ("High taxes result in a great economy") but merely disproving the original statement.

<h2>Of course none of this is scientific, as there should be control groups and a larger data set, etc, etc... But suggesting that such an example is meaningless shows the type of high-school-level understanding of economics that pervaded last week's mass-teabagging.</h2>