"However it's discussed, I still feel hurt and disappointed that we as a city can't make this happen. I don't want a park, I don't want a library, I would like a street. I would like to say I live off of "Cesar Chavez Boulevard." Making an inclusional change for the better, that's historic."

Odd, Cesar Chavez spent his life fighting on behalf of people oppressed by power and the "My way or the highway" mentality. It's good that you know what you want, but -- as your post suggests -- the attitude of "we don't care what you want, you have to name a street after Chavez" is generating a little resistance . . .

I always wonder whether this renaming thing is really about honoring a key world advocate of nonviolent social change (in which case a park, a school, a library or some other place that is lovable, some place where people spend time by choice seems fully appropriate) or whether it's about forcing through a change to demonstrate that the backers have the power to force through a change.

How about naming Broadway over in N.E., Chavez Blvd? Or, even into S.W. until it after it crosses West Burnside? Maybe some people can, but I can't imagine downtown S.W. Broadway being named anything other than Broadway. That name is synonymous with 'bright lights, big city'. Downtown Portland wouldn't seem right without that name.

Or, how about Broadway-Chavez. That sounds dumb. This whole emphasis on having to have a street named after a prominent figure of everyone's personal ethnic group of choice relative to that groups progress in the U.S. is getting ridiculous. Perhaps the city should compile a list of ethnic groups in Portland that haven't yet been honored with a street, so that this order of business can be taken care of ASAP.

Who hasn't been so honored yet? The Chinese? They have Chinatown. Perhaps the Chinese community may feel that answers their concerns in the infrastructure naming department. How about the Vietnamese? Tibetans? Koreans? Indians, both native and American? Koreans. No way have I possibly named them all. The city could avoid a lot of future anguish if it took care of this now.

Two points

1. In the previous post, I asked the parties interested in renaming a street if their objective was to " honor Sr. Chavez or prove how much power you have." I guess we are finding out the answer here.

2. Has anyone ever had the brilliant idea of ever asking if there is a neighborhood that would LIKE to have its street renamed? Instead of shoving a renaming down the throats of a community that doesn't want it, there just might be a community that would welcome it.

Respectfully: Every molecule, every parsec of energy spent on this subject is a waste. Tastes notwithstanding, deep down, I suspect you believe that too: you tipped yourself in your post.

Karol, you are clearly a gifted writer and thinker. Direct your focus to the many more pressing problems in this city, education being foremost among them.

I think we should mandate E-verify for all Oregon employees and voters and rename I-5 from Tijuana to The oregon border Chavez expressway.

I love this!

Lets just give California to the Mexican government. Oh I forgot Linda Chavez Thompson was on Obama's campaign staff, and now Liberal Democrats feel that illegal immigrants are part of the voting block.

While immigrants with medical, and engineering backgrounds that speak English and have waited 10 years to come to this country, liberals like you want to sell our sovereignty for that electoral college vote.

Its not bad enough that California provided 50 percent of the failed mortgages which Oregonians have to pay for, you want illegals to have full amnesty.

Chavez yes did much for the migrant worker. migrant workers and Brasaros that were leagl.

You liberals lump all hispanics together illeagl or a 4th generation latino business owner. If you truely like illegal aliens so much, go live in Riverside county for awhile.

Tualatin Valley Highway. Cornell Road. Molalla Highway. Pacific Highway.

Why does Cesar Chavez Boulevard have to be in Portland proper? Shouldn't it have some agricultural connection?

Duh. I made a mistake. A parsec is something really big; I thought it described something really small.

Karol, this proves my point: you need to spend more time worrying about educating people like ME, and not renaming streets. :)

By the way: I'm also good with unnaming (or is it "disnaming") "Reagan" International Airport in Washington. I mean, they "unnamed" Cape Kennedy back to Cape Canaveral, right?

You down with that, Mr. Brodhead?

Eddie,

How about Obama international

Castro street to Pelosi Parkway

Broadway could be Barney Frank way

We could rename the strip in Las Vegas to

Harry Reid foreclsoure memorial drive

WE could rename veteran parkway to Murtha memorial

Stephan, is your target audience the sarcastic Republican vote? How many of those are there in the 1st District? Or doesn't that matter because you are right and everyone else is wrong.

Being clever doesn't win elections, gaining more votes than anyone else running wins elections.

Do you know that E-Verify is 100% accurate and needs no fixing? Or is your crack just about making snide remarks about immigrants/farm workers? (A friend of mine, native of Texas, child of farm workers, was able eventually to get college degrees and become a teacher. )

What do you do for a living?

Your sarcastic tone has been tried, and without success. I suggest you read http://www.blueoregon.com/2006/10/saxtonville_day_5.html

My wife thinks this guy is a little touched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y4GNHUbRIo

Karol says: Just like Interstate, Broadway is an avenue named after something inanimate. I ask myself, what's the big deal?

Portland's existence didn't just begin with the birth of your (or my) generation. Please see www.pdxhistory.com to get some idea of what the 'big deal' may be to some people. Google 'Broadway Portland' and look through a yellow pages book - count the number of businesses that have 'Broadway' in their name based on their location to see another 'big deal' (Broadway Cab has been in business since 1930!)

Just because you don't feel Broadway is 'historic' doesn't mean it isn't... And just because the expense of changing the name wouldn't be yours doesn't mean it's inconsequential.

I'm not a native Portlandian or Oregonian - but I have a respect and appreciation for Portland's history. And I've seen cities like Portland lose part of their charm, character, and sense of community when they chose to start gutting and throwing their history overboard in the name of 'progress' and/or to bow to some politically correct cause.

P.S. I won't deny Cesar Chavez accomplished some great things in his life - but claiming he 'transformed history' is a stretch (unless your timeline for history only goes back 30 or 40 years, of course)...

The thing I like about "Broadway" the street is that it's unique in Portland -- it's the only street that runs both N/S AND E/W, and the only street that passes through NE, N, NW and SW Portland. I think it's a bit unfortunate that it didn't make a southerly bend, Foster-like, and run into SE as well.

That's a small bit of trivia, maybe just an interesting oddity, and quite possibly of concern to nobody but me. However, if we rename a segment of it, that oddity vanishes. If we're going to rename a street, I'd prefer one that's a bit less geographically distinctive. (Example: EVERY OTHER STREET IN PORTLAND.)

My personal quirk aside, "mp" is right -- street renaming should begin with the affected community. If residents of the east-side Broadway corridor want to live near a Cesar Chavez Boulevard, how about Weidler?

Karol Collymore:

However it's discussed, I still feel hurt and disappointed that we as a city can't make this happen. I don't want a park, I don't want a library, I would like a street. I would like to say I live off of "Cesar Chavez Boulevard."

Bob T:

Oh, get off this feel-good, street-naming kick and do something important like trying to stop the corporate welfare scam the progressive city council just awarded to a millionaire son of a bigger millionaire father. I didn't vote for any one of those three schmucks.

Bob Tiernan Portland

Alcatross is right. It's sad that humans are becoming more detached from an historical understanding/context.

We used to name new things after people, now we think we could just rename things. Regarding Cesar Chavez, how about we meet in the middle? We can name the proposed CRC bridge the Cesar Chavez Memorial Bridge. That way the people opposed to the bridge will become proponents and advocate for it to be a signature bridge.

I can empathize. Being able to say, "I live off Cesar Chavez Blvd." says "Portland is progressive". Doesn't the response before and now, though, say, "Portland isn't progressive"? There's a difference between having a lot more progressives than any other city, and being progressive. If you subtract off the reality testing challenged liberals, there are barely more progressives in Portland than the average place, anymore. I've had to stop disparaging Texas because I keep getting busted on their being ahead of the game on something that I was saying they don't have a clue about, compared to us.

Yes, it's feel good politics, Bob. That's what the article is about.

All this soul searching from a city whose name was determined on the flip of a coin. I guess that's because we understand so much more now.

Just because someone is famous, it does not entitle us to impose thier honorariums on others. Especially when it involes extesive personal money to change many personal cards and personal bank accounts because of a simple address change. Do you like to live you life solely to impose complete aggravation onto others in the name of 'progress'?

So, can anyone tell me why it is ALWAYS a street that 'needs to be changed'? Why do you all need to force feed us this down our throats just becaue YOU think its a good idea?

I guess boredom does have some advantages...

Ed Blatch says: I mean, they "unnamed" Cape Kennedy back to Cape Canaveral, right?

And now, the rest of the story:

Jacqueline Kennedy suggested to President Johnson that renaming the Cape Canaveral facility would be an appropriate memorial. But Johnson, in his typical style, rammed through the renaming not just of the facility, but of the entire cape.

However, the renaming was not popular in Florida - especially in the city of Cape Canaveral. (I doubt Johnson ever thought to ask them for their opinion or support...) So In 1973 the state passed a law restoring the former 400-year-old name. Jacqueline Kennedy, exuding her usual class, also stated that if she had known the Canaveral name had existed for 400 years, she never would have supported changing the name of the Cape.

Maybe there's a lesson in this here?

"I still feel hurt and disappointed that we as a city can't make this happen."

You feel hurt and disappointed when others have a different opinion?

" "I still feel hurt and disappointed that we as a city can't make this happen."

You feel hurt and disappointed when others have a different opinion? "

Or is it because you are not getting your way like you always did when you were a child? Or is it because you believe you know what's best for everyone else, and try to force feed it down other people's throats because you are politically correct/right and more 'enlightened' than the others?

I don't know who this Brodhead fellow is, but geez louise, this wingnut hatemonger has obviously had one hell of a lot of free time recently to be a troll at Blue Oregon and gawd knows where else.

I'm half inclined to recommend that none of Blue Oregon's contributors post anything about Chavez, race relations, or science (for example, climate change), as these topics just trigger a flood of responses from trolls and wingnuts. But a far better recommendation than self-censorship is simply this: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. IGNORE THEM. Guys like Brodhead love to get outraged reactions. They're serial abusers, not people engaging in rational debate. IGNORE THEM.

Back to Karol's original post (sigh): I am not surprised that you saw "Save Historic Broadway" signs. Personally I would very much like to see Chavez honored, and renaming a street is certainly one way to go about it. But people get attached to place names for all sorts of reasons, just as they get attached to things like sports teams (now that's something I'll never understand). I suggest being very careful not to impute ulterior motives to the household or business that hangs up that "Save Historic Broadway" sign. No doubt plenty of small businesses on Broadway do not relish the expense of replacing advertising, business cards etc. to reflect a name change.

Krybaby Karol is hurt and disappointed because someone else won't do what she wants. Must be a tough life.

""I still feel hurt and disappointed that we as a city can't make this happen."

You feel hurt and disappointed when others have a different opinion? "

looking at the other posts after i put this up - some people take this to far and a little to personal.

Zarathustra:

There's a difference between having a lot more progressives than any other city, and being progressive. If you subtract off the reality testing challenged liberals, there are barely more progressives in Portland than the average place, anymore.

Bob T:

What a cop out -- "we weren't progressive enough to stop this corporate welfare for millionaire Paulson!" But I never thought progressives were able to stop this sort of thing anyway, considering the record of corporate welfare and other maney-wasting scams in all the years of New Urbanism. There are too few such people in Portland, so it was up to you guys, and you flopped.

Zarathustra:

Yes, it's feel good politics, Bob. That's what the article is about.

Bob T:

Fine - and my reply was about how that is nothing compared to real things going on that screw the taxpayers -- all because not enough people care or are paying attention. And even brought on themselves because they were more interested in scoring points for having "the first gay mayor of a major city", even though he was on record as supporting giving millions to millionaire Paulson.

Zarathustra:

All this soul searching from a city whose name was determined on the flip of a coin.

Bob T:

So what - the coin-flip was not about doing a feel-good thing. And neither coin-flipper used his own name for the city.

Bob Tiernan Portland

They're serial abusers, not people engaging in rational debate.

Last time I looked, it takes at least two (2) persons to have a debate. Dismissing everyone who disagrees with you as "trolls and wingnuts" is not debate.

While the name "Broadway" may be inanimate, it is a classicly historic American street name that reflects the era of the street. It's as classic a name as Main, Elm, Chestnut, Grand, Commerce, Union, Front, River, Water, all common names of streets laid out in the 18th and 19th century in American cities. Almost every great American city has a Broadway, and it's usually a significant street.

To me, it has nothing to do with race, and including this assertion in every refrain looks like race-baiting. The renaming of Front hurts me just as much. It should not have been done. I think MLK is one of the 5 greatest Americans in history, but I still miss the name Union.

39th is a non-offensive choice, although I see little reason to choose it. Why not Cully, where Latino roots are deep? Or the new downtown light rail bridge, which will be iconic and non-offensive?

However it's discussed, I still feel hurt and disappointed that we as a city can't make this happen. I don't want a park, I don't want a library, I would like a street. I would like to say I live off of "Cesar Chavez Boulevard."

Funny, I feel hurt and disappointed that all the suggestions to name or rename a park/bridge/farmers market all fall on deaf ears.

btw, I would like to say "I live in a community that doesn't believe in toll roads". Sadly the blight that the right creates to privatize what should be public infrastructure is used by the left as social engineering. Sigh...

"Maybe there's a lesson in this here?"

Yes: Clearly the lesson is that LBJ and Jackie Kennedy were racists. That's what we call people who oppose renaming things that already have names, right?

GLV says: Clearly the lesson is that LBJ and Jackie Kennedy were racists. That's what we call people who oppose renaming things that already have names, right?

huh?

Amen, mp. In my book troll ends and obnoxious begins at responsive. When karl, or wunderblunder or whatever he's calling himself posts, he's heard something on the radio and is looking for a place to dump his copy buffer. Doesn't ever read the article. That's trolling. JK, though, extremely obnoxious, is trying to win a point, which is at least superficially responsive, so it isn't trolling. I love strong action against true trolls, but am equally disturbed when it starts to sound like "beyond the Pale".

The coin toss was still vain. It was "my home town's name" vs "your home town's name". Has anyone considered "Springfield' as a name for a major street? You know, something about Portland, instead of someone Portland wants to be associated with? "Springfield' would be a meta-name, since it is a street name that references other Portland street names (the Simpsons). Personally, I would favor, "Blue Lake Green Bean Blvd", or "Himalaya Blackberry Avenue". Districts don't appear on PO addresses; why not name them deliberately. They often become iconic, on a purely nominal basis. Witness Trendy-third. So, how about the "Hazelnut District"? Don't rename Hollywood, rename the district! (wasn't Hazelnuts Hollywood a flick?) "The Cesar Chavez District". Now, I like the sound of that one.

Businesses do get to right off stationary, etc. change costs, no? Assuming they have a profit, this year...

Back to the Trendy-third bit... Might that not be a good way to find likely candidates (a la the comment about 'anyone want their street renamed')? When a street's real name becomes supplanted with a nickname, the street needs to be renamed. When the locals object, the street dosn't need to be renamed; you're looking for something to rename.

Why do I feel this logic is heading toward MLS in Portland?

Zarathustra:"Businesses do get to right off stationary, etc. change costs, no? Assuming they have a profit, this year..."

Sure, but you have to have money to replace it. In AZ, I had at times close to $100K in imprinted goods in storage. Show me that magic money tree and all problems would be solved.

I've tried since this whole thing started to get the Chavez advocates to go for Airport Way. Talk about a major roadway with a zip romance name! And it would mean that every traveler who arrived or departed would recognize our honor of Chavez.

That said, I've now changed my mind.

Now I want you Chavezinists to stick with demanding a downtown street. I'm gonna start pushing for changing Aiport Way to Harvey Milk Boulevard. And I might be serious... I'll get back to you after I get Davis Avenue between 2nd and 3rd renamed Darcelle Way.

Every time we "rename" a street we lose a little bit of the history that went with that old name.

Name something NEW for Cesar Chavez, and leave the existing stuff the alone.

"Second Verse same as the First"

Yep. A street name change is being forced down the throats of a bunch of residents, property and business owners who don't want it - by a bunch of people who call anyone who disagrees "racist".

If the point of renaming a street is that it is hard on a particular group of people to serve the interests of another group altogether and that consistutes an honor, then I guess it does. I do know that for those living or conducting business on such a street life gets complicated and sometimes expensive. Is the measure of the honor the amount of difficulties presented?

This is why honors like this are generally applied to schools, libraries, parks, bridges, and other public structures - the name is recognized without a specific group being infringed upon.

Karol, I tried pretty hard to think how I'd react to you if it were my street and you were telling me how sad and hurt it made you. Let's see, I don't give a damn about naming a street for anybody and now I have to deal with it on my street and you don't and you're hurt and I'm supposed to give a good god damn? You have an odd idea of honorifics.

Obviously your little spat will have zero effect on me in Baker City, so I really don't give a rat's patoot but it is rather amusing to watch you all chase this tail for months on end.

Fuck it, let's just name a few more things for Mark Hatfield and Tom McCall as we trip on down Memory Lane, back to the Oregon of the 1960s, when men were men, women were women, and life was pure and simple.

I notice some cities (Flint and Pontiac in Michigan, El Paso, TX, and Salt Lake City, UT) named stretches of highway going through their downtowns after Cesar Chavez. This would seem to serve the purpose of being a significant artery yet still not disrupt business/residence addresses.

However it's discussed, I still feel hurt and disappointed that we as a city can't make this happen. I don't want a park, I don't want a library, I would like a street.

I would like a million dollars.

As far as I'm concerned, however it's discussed, this issue is a complete waste of everybody's time.

I notice some cities (Flint and Pontiac in Michigan, El Paso, TX, and Salt Lake City, UT) named stretches of highway going through their downtowns after Cesar Chavez.

Flint, Michigan? But how can this be? I just checked Flint's Wikipedia page and the demographic statistics indicate only 3% Latino population. If there is truly a Cesar Chavez Highway in Flint, then clearly the deluded residents of that city have violated the First Fundamental Principle of Ethnographical Place-Naming: they should not be allowed to name anything for a member of such a small minority group. Moreover, the Second Fundamental Principle of Ethnographical Place-Naming states that it is impossible for a citizen to honor or respect someone of a different ethnic group. That's why the only places that can be Properly Named for Chavez in Portland are tacquerias.

While the name "Broadway" may be inanimate, it is a classicly historic American street name that reflects the era of the street....

As recently as a few decades ago, one could still buy US Geological Survey topographic maps displaying place names such as Squaw Tit, Nigger Head, Jap Creek, Dago Gulch, and so on. (If you doubt me, see this book.) These were all renamed in the misguided belief that such names were offensive. In fact, as I now realize, these names were classically historic American place names. I am going to start a petition drive to reinstate these classically historic names, and I have no doubt that Blue Oregonians will enthusiastically respond.

I don't see how the name 'Broadway' in any way, reflects offensive inclinations of the era that used names joel dan walls offers as examples: "...Squaw Tit, Nigger Head, Jap Creek, Dago Gulch..." .

Why is it that some people are attempting to play the race card as the reason for opposition to changing the name of any of these streets? What would the opposition look like if the proposal on the table were to rename Hawthorne Boulevard to Ronald Regan Boulevard? The whole concept of making such a name change is divisive because it takes away a deep-rooted identity that neighborhoods have been built around. As previously stated, a better alternative would be to name something new in honor Cesar Chavez; such as the proposed new bridge crossing the Willamette River between OMSI and the South Waterfront.

Re-write of paragraph with missing words substituted in bold:

What a cop out -- "we weren't progressive enough to stop this corporate welfare for millionaire Paulson!" But I never thought progressives were able to stop this sort of thing anyway, considering the record of corporate welfare and other money-wasting scams in all the years of New Urbanism. There are too few free market supporters in Portland, so it was up to you guys, and you flopped.

Bob Tiernan Portland

Terry writes: The whole concept of making such a name change is divisive because it takes away a deep-rooted identity that neighborhoods have been built around.

U.S. history is a story of amazing achievement and growth. It is also a history that is based on racist, sexist, divisive policies and beliefs. The offensive terms listed by Joel are symbols of this cultural heritage we are growing away from.

Joel: As recently as a few decades ago, one could still buy US Geological Survey topographic maps displaying place names such as Squaw Tit, Nigger Head, Jap Creek, Dago Gulch, and so on.

Some argue that Broadway's name must be kept in order to keep a connection to our history. But what are we trying to hold on to? Broadway was (and is) a downtown business center. Who was allowed to own property on Broadway? Who was allowed to eat in the resteraunts on Broadway? Does this 'history' of Broadway really represent what we think is best and most wonderful about our American past? A memory of an economic past, a business past, that was exclusive, biased, sexist and racist in nature?

What makes our American history so great is our ability to innovate, evolve, and create. We are burdened and informed by our past. No matter what we do, the past will be there, shaping our present, our sensibilities, our ideologies, our economic realities... We can't do anything about the past. But we can decide, step by step, our future.

Create our flavor of what today and tomorrow should feel like in Portland: brimming with RESPECT, RECOGNITION and HONOR for all the people and communities who have built this nation.

What does a FUTURE symbolized by a street named Cesar Chavez mean? It means RESPECT and HONOR to American pioneers and innovators of every color.

That's the future I want for my two white children. And I won't recommend they move back to Oregon until there's some proof that that kind of future is important enough to Portland to encode it into their city streets.

The autopsy of a recently deceased Portland citizen revealed death by choking. The medical examiner reported finding a Cesar-Chavez-or-Bust hammer and a child’s size The-Debt-You’re-In-For-Soccer stadium seat in the victim's throat. He added, “Someone had to shove these awfully hard!”

<h2>Just curious - why don't you want a park? It seems elitist that you want to say you live "near Chavez Boulevard," when many Latinos might enjoy saying "we play soccer every weekend in Chavez Park over by Janzen Beach."</h2>