How long until they really hit bottom and reform themselves?
Carla Axtman
Oh how I wish I'd have been the reporter to write this story:
Met with Republican Rep. Mary Bono Mack from Riverside County's Coachella Valley. While a social moderate, Sonny Bono's widow is a solid conservative. Talked to her about Obama's $780 billion stimulus legislation. She's outraged that the plan has "$1 billion wasted on a magnetic-levitation train from L.A. to Sin City" - all at Nevada Sen. Harry Reid's doing.After expressing my doubt that the Las Vegas line was actually in the bill's language, Bono Mack directs her staff to "get him the bill, it's right there, show him." A few minutes later, a staffer emerges with a copy and quietly says "it's not in the bill."
Awesome. Truly good stuff.
Ladies and Gentlemen...your Grand Old Party of shock-jock radio talking points at work.
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Mar 4, '09
The deal provides $8 billion for high-speed rail projects, including money that could benefit a controversial proposal for a magnetic-levitation rail line between Disneyland, in California, and Las Vegas, a project favored by Senate Majority leader Reid.
In June 2008, Reid did help to secure $45 million for an environmental study of the proposed route.
It's possible the Anaheim-Las Vegas project will receive some of the stimulus funds, though how much remains uncertain. On Feb. 12, the Associated Press reported that a statement from Reid's office bragged that the Anaheim-Las Vegas project could receive what AP called "a big chunk of the money."
11:00 a.m.
Mar 4, '09
Yet the talking bobble-heads on the television "news" (yack-fests) never seem capable of just pointing out that in fact the mag-lev Disneyland to Vegas strip item is a total fabrication, just like the salt marsh mouse, and all the other whoo-ha that the Fright-Wing™ limbots flap their arms over.
And they keep letting these elected GOP hacks on the show and treat them as if anything they have to say is legitimate. When you lie and make shit up out of whole cloth, out yourselves and not just a lair but a flaming hypocrite to boot, you would think that would disqualify you as being credible enough to get on the television and have a megaphone to reach the entire nation/world.
You would think.
11:01 a.m.
Mar 4, '09
I call bullshit. Provide credible sources to back up ANY of your GOP talking point claims.
Mar 4, '09
I call bullshit. Provide credible sources to back up ANY of your GOP talking point claims.
Bono Mack seems to have been completely mistaken (and from what I can see, she's not the only one -- a few other GOP Congress goons were complaining about a "sin train" or some such thing), but it looks to me like you're just reacting without actually having done any sort of research of your own.
According to the Washington Post, Reid does in fact support the Aneheim-Vegas line, though the amount of money to be allocated for its construction -- if any -- is completely unknown at this point:
It was Obama's White House that, in the final hours of negotiations over the $787 billion stimulus bill, sought and won the big sum for high-speed rail projects, far above what either the House or Senate had passed. Reid was happy to agree but there's no guarantee the Anaheim-Las Vegas line will win dollars, to be determined by the Transportation Department.
While discussing the prospects of the Anaheim-Vegas line, the article also notes that:
Last year Congress approved $45 million for environmental and other studies.
This article from the Huffington Post mentions that Reid "praised" the passing of the bill that allocated that $45 million. Though it doesn't specifically say that he was involved in passing it, it seems totally unlikely that he was completely uninvolved in such a large sum of money being spent in his state.
I mean, did you even bother to look up any of this stuff before "calling bullshit" on "GOP talking points"? I can't imagine that you did, since it took all of five minutes to dig up this very basic information, of which you appear to have been not only totally unaware, but apparently convinced that it didn't even exist.
"Talking points" indeed.
Mar 4, '09
"The deal provides $8 billion for high-speed rail projects, including money that could benefit a controversial proposal for a magnetic-levitation rail line between Disneyland..."
...
Of course it's also possible that the stimulus package woulda coulda shoulda provide me with a solar power jet backpack and a penthouse suite at the Bellagio...
Too bad there's nothing in it for bottom of the barrel scrapers, cuz the GOP is trying their darnedest to qualify.
Mar 4, '09
I too call bullshit.
Please prove that any passenger rail:
Is cheaper than each of the alternatives: buses, cars and planes.
Saves energy when you account for construction (and electrical plant & line losses if electric powered).
Good solid proof please, not some technically ignorant greenie web site.
B
Mar 4, '09
E-VERIFY! IF YOU VALUE YOUR JOBS
It is the Last chance to save American jobs and to demand our lawmakers reinstate E-Verify as a MANDATORY law. These pariah lawmakers already killed it in Stimulus. Only the US legal population have the power to force reluctant politicians to vote for this law. The usual anti-sovereignty, pro-illegal immigrant critics are trying to sabotage it. Along with corrupt politicians who receive campaign contribution from the lobbyists, to weaken our immigration laws.
Sen. Harry Reid leads the wolf pack with the only efficient tool we have in our arsenal to stop the escalation of illegal labor. March 6 is the deadline to revitalize E-Verify for another 5 years or let it die. Without its power American Workers are at the mercy of the pariah business industry who can then employ illegal foreigners at minimum wage.
If you value your job, within any trade or profession it is not safe. Even the high professional jobs have been stolen by visa over-stayers. Not every illegal alien comes from South of the border. Make your demands known at the Washington Switchboard (202) 224-3121. Keep calling and don't stop.
12:00 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Okay...so apparently the problem isn't that Bono-Mack doesn't know what the hell she's talking about because she bought in to unchecked GOP talking points. The problem is that Reid might actually support a project that brings jobs and infrastructure to his region..? Seriously?
And oh by the way, the stimulus killed E-Verify..which has nothing whatsoever to do with this topic..but hey, let's throw in the kitchen sink cuz nobody wants to talk about the inanity of GOP talking points?
Lawdy...
12:00 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Except that according to the DOT map, there is no designated HSR corridor between CA and NV. As noted over at Think Progress, in a last-minute change in the stim-bill, the total quantity of funds available was increased. But there’s no HSR plan for Las Vegas. The money will be spread all across the country. As it happens, I think an LA-Vegas HSR line is a perfectly reasonable project given the load on I-15. But in practice the areas that will get funding will be ones in the Federal Railroad Administration’s officially designated high-speed rail corridors. As it happens, LA-Vegas doesn’t make the cut. But guess who does have such a corridor? Ohio!
Indeed, the actual HSR plan is a bit freakishly Ohio-centric, offering both a Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago line and a Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati-Indianapolis corridor while leaving things like Houston-Dallas and Orlando-Jacksonville (and, indeed, LA-Vegas) off the list. Long story short, John Boehner, who was first to the microphone to rail against (pun intended) this non-existent rail line doesn’t know what he’s talking about and his position on this issue would imperil both short term jobs for Ohioans and an opportunity to substantially improve Ohio’s long-run capacity for economic growth.
Of course Reid, who represents Nevada a state whose economy depends in large part on CA residents gambling in Vegas would love a HSR line to deliver customers to his state. Good on him for it.
But it isn't in this bill no matter how often and how much top-spin the GOP want to put on it.
12:21 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Well there is this for starters:
Of course we can always defer to that ultimate lefty group of tree-huggers the Wall Street Journal who reported:
And I wonder if you factor in the cost of construction and maintenance of highways in the argument, or just the cost construction and maintenance of rail?
Mar 4, '09
Billy "Please prove that any passenger rail: 1. Is cheaper than each of the alternatives: buses, cars and planes. 2. Saves energy when you account for construction (and electrical plant & line losses if electric powered)."
"Why Railroads: Efficiency
Effective Use of Existing Assets: The existing Amtrak network provides a foundation upon which to grow a stronger system. Existing stations can handle significantly more passengers with relatively little investment. Existing trains can handle more people more simply adding more cars. Simply removing railroad bottlenecks can add capacity at a low marginal cost.
Lower Construction Cost: Upgraded track is 6-7 times cheaper to build than highways. New track is almost 4 times cheaper
In Northeastern Illinois in 2002, adding one lane of new highway to an existing road cost $7.3 million per mile. Building a new railroad track on land already owned by the freight railroads cost between $1 million-$2 million. Upgrading existing track and signaling to handle 110 mph service ran about $1 million per mile.
More Capacity: Rail can carry 3-5 times more people than highways. Drivers know that at highway speed, we’re supposed to leave about two seconds’ worth of distance between our car and the one in front of us. There are 3,600 seconds in an hour. With two seconds between cars, that means one lane of highway holds 1800 cars per hour, and with an average of 1.5 passengers per car, that means a total capacity of 2700 people per hour per lane.
The London-Paris "Eurostar" trains that travel underneath the English Channel hold 770 people. If there were 12 such trains per hour, the total capacity per hour per track would be 9,240. Double-deck French high-speed trains now hold more than 1,000 people per train. At 12 trains per hour, that’s 12,000 passengers!
Better Land Use: Rail requires 10% the amount of land as Interstate highways.
Between New York and Boston, a distance of about 210 miles, the main highway is Interstate 95, which is between 4-8 lanes wide the entire distance. The total amount of land devoted to I-95 is about 25 square miles. If new high-speed dual track were built from scratch between the two cities, the total land required would be about 2.5 square miles."
http://www.midwesthsr.org/whyRail_efficiency.htm
Mar 4, '09
Billy "Please prove that any passenger rail: 1. Is cheaper than each of the alternatives: buses, cars and planes. 2. Saves energy when you account for construction (and electrical plant & line losses if electric powered)."
"Why Railroads: Efficiency
Effective Use of Existing Assets: The existing Amtrak network provides a foundation upon which to grow a stronger system. Existing stations can handle significantly more passengers with relatively little investment. Existing trains can handle more people more simply adding more cars. Simply removing railroad bottlenecks can add capacity at a low marginal cost.
Lower Construction Cost: Upgraded track is 6-7 times cheaper to build than highways. New track is almost 4 times cheaper
In Northeastern Illinois in 2002, adding one lane of new highway to an existing road cost $7.3 million per mile. Building a new railroad track on land already owned by the freight railroads cost between $1 million-$2 million. Upgrading existing track and signaling to handle 110 mph service ran about $1 million per mile.
More Capacity: Rail can carry 3-5 times more people than highways. Drivers know that at highway speed, we’re supposed to leave about two seconds’ worth of distance between our car and the one in front of us. There are 3,600 seconds in an hour. With two seconds between cars, that means one lane of highway holds 1800 cars per hour, and with an average of 1.5 passengers per car, that means a total capacity of 2700 people per hour per lane.
The London-Paris "Eurostar" trains that travel underneath the English Channel hold 770 people. If there were 12 such trains per hour, the total capacity per hour per track would be 9,240. Double-deck French high-speed trains now hold more than 1,000 people per train. At 12 trains per hour, that’s 12,000 passengers!
Better Land Use: Rail requires 10% the amount of land as Interstate highways.
Between New York and Boston, a distance of about 210 miles, the main highway is Interstate 95, which is between 4-8 lanes wide the entire distance. The total amount of land devoted to I-95 is about 25 square miles. If new high-speed dual track were built from scratch between the two cities, the total land required would be about 2.5 square miles."
http://www.midwesthsr.org/whyRail_efficiency.htm
Mar 4, '09
Too bad that so many of the thuguglycons who populate BO are still stuck at anger. They will progress towards acceptance of the total defeat of Reaganomics. When that happens how will we know?
Mar 4, '09
More on rail...
"Why Railroads: A Cleaner Environment
Less Air Pollution
Fuel-powered vehicle engines, all of which use some type of petroleum, primarily emit three types of harmful gases: Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC), carbon monoxide CO), and nitrous oxides (NOx).
Assuming eight 110-mph trains between Chicago and St. Louis each day, compare the emissions of rail vs. those of air and car per passenger per mile:
Tons / Millions of Passenger Miles Pollutant Rail Air Car VOC 0.084 1.582 0.703 CO 0.703 2.619 5.981 NOX 1.214 1.164 1.955
110-mph rail would produce fewer of each of the emissions than cars, and less of VOC and CO than airplanes.
Better Fuel Efficiency: Completing the Chicago to St. Louis corridor would save more than 6-1/2 million gallons of fuel each year.
If, in 2010, our transportation choices remain as they are today between Chicago and St. Louis, the four available modes would use almost 82 million gallons of fuel. If eight daily 110-mph Chicago-St. Louis round-trips were available fuel consumpstion would be reduced to 75 million gallons.
90% of the travel between Midwestern cities is actually by car. The amount of fuel saved could be significantly higher if a greater number of those drivers than predicted choose the railroad instead of driving.
Emissions-Freight: Railroads transport more than 40% of our country’s intercity freight "ton-miles" (one ton hauled one mile), but account for just 9% of NO2 freight emissions. That’s because a typical truck emits about three times more NO2 than a typical locomotive per ton mile.
Congestion-Freight: Freight trains often carry highway truck trailers or containers. Each of these "intermodal" trains can remove up to 280 trucks from our highways. Trains carrying the goods themselves can remove up to 500 trucks from our highways.
Fuel Efficiency-Freight: Per ton-mile, various studies have shown that a freight train uses between one-third and one-ninth as much fuel as trucks."
http://www.midwesthsr.org/whyRail_cleaner.htm
Mar 4, '09
The Republican party is not capable of reforming itself. The party is made up of a group of entrenched operators of personality disordered narcissists who effectively manipulate a population of ideological "know-nothings," haters, and bigots, and keep them mired in their own ignorant swamp of victimization.
Mar 4, '09
You do realize that your comment applies just as easily to every political party, from the GOP to the Democrats, the Libertarians, Labour, Greens, World Workers, Ba'ath, etc., right?
Mar 4, '09
Perhaps Stimulus Myths can provide a bit more info. Here is an excerpt regarding trains. Draw your own conclusions:
QUOTE Levitating Trains
A number of congressional Republicans, including Reps. Patrick McHenry (N.C.), Thaddeus McCotter (Mich.), Candice Miller (Mich.), and Sens. John McCain (Ariz.) and Jim DeMint (S.C.), have accused Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat from Nevada, of inserting an $8 billion "earmark" into the stimulus bill for a levitating train from Disneyland to Las Vegas. That’s a major distortion. No money is specifically set aside for such a train.
What the bill contains is $8 billion in funding for unspecified high speed rail projects (skip to p. 237 for the relevant section). The money is to be allocated by the secretary of transportation. A DOT spokesperson told us that it is “premature to speculate” about what exactly will be funded. Even vigilant pork-busting budget watchdogs agree that the "levitating train earmark" charge is without merit: Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan group that scours legislation for earmarks, told us that there is "no way that this provision is an earmark for Sen. Reid."
In truth, “levitating” trains really do exist – but they are properly called maglev trains, and they are high-tech marvels. The technology uses electromagnets to lift the train off the tracks. That reduces friction and allows trains to reach extremely high speeds; in 2003, an experimental Japanese maglev train reached a record speed of 581 kilometers (or about 361 miles) per hour. Here it is in action:
Officials in both Nevada and California, including California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Nevada Gov. Jim Gibbons (both Republicans) have agreed to back a maglev train between Anaheim (home of Disneyland) and Las Vegas. In June 2008, Reid did help to secure $45 million for an environmental study of the proposed route.
It's possible the Anaheim-Las Vegas project will receive some of the stimulus funds, though how much remains uncertain. It's not even clear how much Reid expects will go to it. On Feb. 12, the Associated Press reported that a statement from Reid's office bragged that the Anaheim-Las Vegas project could receive what AP called "a big chunk of the money." But The Washington Post later quoted a Reid spokesman as saying that while the project is “eligible" for funding, the transportation secretary, Ray LaHood – a former Republican congressman – "will have complete flexibility as to which program he uses to allocate the funds." We asked Reid's office to explain the discrepancy – "big chunk" or merely "eligible" – but we received no response.
In any case, the weaker statement is more in line with the actual text of the legislation:
Is this pork? Taxpayers for Common Sense's Ehrich Zimmermann told us: "Nothing about the bill indicates that maglev has a higher priority than other types of high speed rail." That is the DOT's view as well. A spokesperson for the DOT told us: "The Secretary of Transportation is developing a comprehensive plan over the next 60 days to ensure the allocated high-speed rail funds are spent on projects that will have the highest-impact across the country."
The L.A.-to-Vegas project may well be under consideration for funding; according to a FAQ posted on the Federal Railroad Administration's Web site, maglev projects are eligible for funding under ARRA. But that same FAQ also points to a 2005 Railroad Administration report to Congress that found that outside of the heavily populated northeast corridor (roughly D.C. through Boston) and a 527-mile section along California's coast, maglev’s costs exceeded its benefits. That implies that the proposed Disneyland-to-Las Vegas route doesn't make economic sense to the FRA.
We can’t predict the future, and it’s certainly within the realm of possibility that the Republican who is Obama's transportation secretary will decide to devote the entire $8 billion to a project that is nowhere near shovel-ready and that the Federal Railroad Administration says is not cost-effective – all for the benefit of the Democratic majority leader. But we wouldn’t bet on it. END-QUOTE
Mar 4, '09
Let's cut to it.
Is there any spending in any of the $5 Trillion and growing bailout/stimulus/recovery-Investment act that progressives are opposed to?
3:26 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Richard:
I'm opposed to the TARP spending that Bush released to the banks and financial institutions that had zero oversight by the Department of Treasury.
I remain skeptical of the second TARP funds release--although I reserve judgment until I learn more about the oversight of those funds.
Now let's put the shoe on the other foot: What part of the spending plan (not including tax cuts) do you agree with?
Mar 4, '09
The really interesting part of that article comes later:
Rush Limbaugh said the same thing.3:54 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Are you asking about the AARA, TARP or the budget?
They are not the same animals, and there are some in all three that this progressive (and many others) are opposed to.
I am not too fond of the AMT reworking in the AARA which was at the expense of more state grants, infrastructure programs, etc. and think there are too many non-beneficial (in terms of economy or stimulus) tax cuts in the bill such as the tax credit for home buyers in the bill (even though I personally will likely benefit from it later this year).
The first TARP (the one under Bush) there is very little I like about it. The only upside is that it may have staved off a full scale run on the banks, a taste of which we had back on Sept. 18th 2008 when there was an almost $5.5 trillion run on the bank form hedge funds. This event is the one that scared the shit out of Congress and got TARP passed in the first place.
We don't have enough details about the plan outlined by Secretary Geitner yet for the financial rescue plan, but unless it is basically controlled receivership that will finally kill off the zombie banks, then there is a lot about it I (and most progressives) won't like about it. So far it seems to be nothing but a dance at avoiding language that will be read as the loaded term "nationalization" while they figure out how to put forward what really needs to be done without it exploding in their face.
As for the budget, I am still digesting what the President has put forward, but so far so good, but like any budget bill, there will be things in it I would like taken out of it.
So is there anything in any of the bills, plans, etc. so far you support?
3:55 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Damn it woman, ya beat me too it again!
(grin)
4:04 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
My bad, it was September 15th, 2008, not 18th when were 3 hrs away from an economic collapse of the entire system with a $5.5 trillion run on the banks.
4:08 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
From the article I linked too above, the words of Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D) (PA-11):
Still not thrilled at all with TARP, but the above shows the stakes we are dealing with, and why Secretary Geitner is dancing around the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room about rolling out the real-deal plan.
Mar 4, '09
So tell us, how long? Oh, "them", them. The horror of the other. Our righteousness.
Anyone stupid enough to argue with that bitter old "billy" lovin' JK, should know the calibre of individual that is speaking . What exactly was the business experience that you would emulate, as you cite it as a qualification in your last campaign materials? Outsourcing to Argentina. Being dissolved by the SOS? Stock ownership does not constitute "running a business", as some of your distributed materials (still got 'em) state. Were you defrauding the public?
Richard, as was stated on another thread, is simply a wagging dick.
Seems about the right level for that bunch.
4:21 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
In the elections held in 2006 and 2008, the Republicans have gone from 232 members in the House to 178. They have gone from 55 members in the Senate to 41. They lost the White House by 7+% in the popular vote and a landslide in the EC. But... they have a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell.
4:32 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Maybe they got "the hunger".
Mar 4, '09
The deal provides $8 billion for high-speed rail projects, including money that could benefit a controversial proposal for a magnetic-levitation rail line between Disneyland, in California, and Las Vegas, a project favored by Senate Majority leader Reid.
"Could benefit."
Yo, if I had some ham, I could make ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.
<u>Billy AKA Jim Kaarlock sez:</u>
I too call bullshit. Please prove that any passenger rail: (1) Is cheaper than each of the alternatives: buses, cars and planes. (2) Saves energy when you account for construction (and electrical plant & line losses if electric powered).
Good solid proof please, not some technically ignorant greenie web site.
THAT'S ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. Kaarlock, whose mastery of using cut-and-paste on 3rd hand "scientific" evidence from climate-change-denial websites, is lecturing us about providing "good solid proof". Yo Kaarlock, please get back to your 20th reading of The Collected Works of Ayn Rand.
5:24 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Ok. Now "Dean" Rusk's comment makes sense. Wasn't up on who "billy" was since returning from my BlueOregon commenting sabbatical.
Mar 4, '09
lestatdelc--Kaarlock adopted the "billy" pseudonym awhile ago but when pressed does not hide his actual identity. The editors here apply some sort of filter that blocks any messages with Kaarlock's name spelled correctly. IP address blocking would actually stand a chance of accomplishing the presumably intended purpose, but the editors are evidently loathe to use that approach. I don't know why, because they've blocked other people in the past. Maybe Kaarlock plays games with IP anonymizers? Inquiring minds want to know!
Mar 4, '09
Is this what it has come to? I have to resort to stupid tricks to type (K)arlock here. If this message appears, then I must of figured it out.
9:59 p.m.
Mar 4, '09
Maybe it's an psuedoname of Voldermort (aka "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named")
Mar 4, '09
I don't know about the world, but I'm damn sure the imbeciles have taken over the Republican Party and the conservative movement.
Richard aren't there bridges for you to go hang out underneath?
Mar 5, '09
”Dean" Rusk: Outsourcing to Argentina. B: Your complete ignorance of what is, and isn’t, in the SOS records is showing.
”Dean" Rusk: Stock ownership does not constitute "running a business", B: Again, you show your ignorance.
And, no, I’m not going to waste my time educating you.
B
Mar 5, '09
Carla says: Oh how I wish I'd have been the reporter to write this story...
Carla, if having this opportunity is some dream of yours, please know it's hardly unusual for a member of Congress (of either party) to say something stupid. Just take a trip to Washington DC and live your dream about every time any one of them opens their mouth.
Mar 5, '09
Carla says: Oh how I wish I'd have been the reporter to write this story...
Carla, if having this opportunity is some dream of yours, please know it's hardly unusual for a member of Congress (of either party) to say something stupid. Just take a trip to Washington DC and live your dream about every time any one of them opens their mouth.
Mar 5, '09
oops - apologies for double-post...
Mar 5, '09
I was speaking about the totality of the spending. About 1/3 of which may be at least somewhat justifed. But not even that level with the lousy level of oversight our Congress currently represents.
I mean they have no idea where the first $350 Billion went and they'll have the same problem with much of the next $5 Trillion.
Anyone who is paying attention and can't recognize the absolute tsunami of reckless spending hasn't got an objective bone in their body.
joel dan walls
What's not so "ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT" is the total failure, or deliberate refusal, of the left to grasp the overwhelming refutation of the AGW science, modeling and assumptions. The extent in which the fatal flaws have undermined the theory leaves the whole agenda no more than a crusade of liberal causes hitching a ride on a con job.
Dissing Kaarlock and Ayn Rand is no excuse.
And I don't think there's anything that will cause the left to ever acknowledge the fallacy of AGW. Including a new ice age. You'll simply warm of a horrific human caused warming once the ice age ends. :)
I just want you to own it all without any Republican participation.
Mar 5, '09
Truth and the Republican Party have not had even a nodding acquaintance with truth for the past 15 years.
8:19 a.m.
Mar 5, '09
alcatross: While many might find your cynicism charming, it's rather lost on me. I've met and worked with a number of elected politicos. Most are very smart, articulate and capable folks who work hard to do the job.
I see my role, at least in part, as someone who pushes for better. Certainly the constituency in Bono Mack's district deserve better than someone who doesn't bother to educate herself (or have someone on her staff educate her) about a bill before popping off to a reporter about it. That's just plain lazy.
Not all politicos are like Bono Mack. Hopefully stories like this will help in a small way toward having fewer of them.
And Richard...I'll ask again: Is there any part at all of the stimulus/jobs package, besides tax cuts, that you agree with?
Mar 5, '09
I was going to ask Carla why she uses one example to insinuate that all Republicans are basically idiots, and have their heads up their ass; however, she answered it in her latest response, before I had the chance to ask.
As for dartgnan's comment, dare I say, "I never had sexual relations with that woman?"
See how stupid this is? I take a swipe at your party, you take one at mine. And what does that accomplish?
10:02 a.m.
Mar 5, '09
Not speaking for Carla, but Bono Mack is not a lone voice pushing the fraudulent claim about the LA-Vegas mag-lev train being a "pork" item in the AARA (aka. the stimulus bill). The entire GOP chorus is pushing this fabrication. Witness its invocation by Piyush "Bobby" Jindal in his train-wreck GOP response to the Presidents address to Congress last week.
When you have the GOP as a whole pushing idiotic made up shit, citing one example where a GOPer using that same idiotic made-up assertion having to eat crow when a reporter simply asked for them to point it out in the bill which is now law, and they can't because it isn't in there, seems kinda like a worthwhile thing to talk about.
As I said up-thread this made up assertion that there is a mag-lev train from LA-Vegas "pork" item in the AARA is simply not true. It isn't in it, and no matter how much top-spin the GOP puts on it, it still isn't in the bill.
Mar 5, '09
Richard, you provided a fine practical demonstration of what happens when scientific inquiry becomes politicized--what happens when the conclusion is preordained. The notion that anthropogenic CO2 production would cause global warming goes back 50 years to what was called the International Geophysical Year. A National Academy of Sciences publication in 1959 called Planet Earth: The Mystery with 100,000 Clues contained this statement:
“Our industrial civilization has been pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a great rate. By the year 2000 we will have added 70 percent more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere. If it remained, it would have a marked warming effect on the earth’s climate, most of it would probably be absorbed by the oceans. Conceivably, however, it could cause significant melting of the great icecaps and raise sea levels in time.”
The data required to test the hypothesis have been slowly accumulating since that time, and technologies that exist now, but which didn't exist in 1959, have played a big role in getting those data.
Find yourself an earth-scientist friend who can share with you the weekly newspaper Eos of the American Geophysical Union, say. There are commonly articles in there--written for a scientifically literate but non-specialist audience--about the latest in climate studies. Go to the sources, not to cut-and-paste websites.
11:35 a.m.
Mar 5, '09
And they say our love won't pay the rent. Sigh.
Mar 5, '09
Joel,
You're obviously living in a blue box where only blue information penetrates. Which is why I said I don't think there's anything that will cause the left to ever acknowledge the fallacy of AGW.
You're the fine demonstration of what happens when scientific inquiry becomes politicized. It leads to the halting of all advance and rejects contradiction and dissent.
Your little lesson on the 50 years of AGW theorizing looks laughable along side the fatally flawed IPCC case for it. That pitch has gotten so ludicrous the alarmists have turned to hysteria instead of science. Hansen especially.
Your citing generic and outdated publications is meaningless. There's really no need for you regurgitate the elementary tales told by alarmists who peddle all of the measures to reverse AGW. I mean really. Do you honestly think I am here because I have not had the opportunity to here about "melting of the great icecaps and rising sea levels"? Geeze.
Yes the data required to test the hypothesis have been slowly accumulating and it's not supporting the IPCC modeling AT ALL. And more and more earlier modeling projections are not happening.
What's more is the amount of expert scrutiny outside the IPCC "consensus" peer review which has caught errors grows every week. Right along with sea ice.
I don't care if you upgrade your familiarity with current the AGW unraveling or not. You won't. You're among the "all in" alarmists who will find new excuses for the same policies regardless of what happens.
I simply want people to understand who it is destroying the country with lunatic policies. Such as reported on CNBC this morning that the Obama administration is now attacking the Natural Gas industry with taxes and blocking new drilling. Millions of Americans will suffer from these attacks without any benefit at all. None. It's insane. And there are some Blues who know this to be. But all we get from them are crickets.
Again, I am not here trying to pursuade anyone.
I just want to highlight who it is doing this to America.
For the curious. There are commonly articles in these as well--written for a scientifically literate and lay persons--about the latest in climate studies. www.icecap.us www.wattsupwiththat.com www.climateaudit.org
11:52 a.m.
Mar 5, '09
”Dean" Rusk: Stock ownership does not constitute "running a business"... Billy: Again, you show your ignorance.
And, no, I’m not going to waste my time educating you.
Of course you're not, because you'd only reveal your own ignorance. Rusk is entirely correct. Stock ownership is considered a passive investment. You have no day-to-day responsibilities of running the corporation. All you're doing is providing the corporation money for the promise that it will return more. The only real difference between stocks and bonds is that stocks give you additional legal options if you acquire a majority stake in the company - which almost never happens for publicly traded firms.
I will admit, Billy, that in previous conversations, you've made some solid points regarding the cost of public transportation, especially in regards to using oversize buses on sparsely used routes. But your worship of the culture of self-dealing in corporate boardrooms is a minority view among Americans right now, and an extreme minority view around here because we're not stupid.
So if you intend to convince anyone of your extraordinary claims, saying "you're ignorant and I won't say why" just makes you look like a fool.
1:21 p.m.
Mar 5, '09
Actually the data that has come in, in recent years has shown the problem as worse than the IPCC models.
It is also somewhat ironic that you rail against the "politicization of science" by posting the links to three blogs who are part of an organized effort spearheaded by Marc Morano Marc Morano is communications director for the Republicans and James Inhofe's (vocal global warming denier) lackey.
Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (owned by the conservative Media Research Center). CNS and Morano were the first source in May 2004 of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claims against John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election and in January 2006 of similar smears against Vietnam war veteran John Murtha.
So you may consider forgiving us if we don't climb out on that political hack/luddite limb with you.
1:24 p.m.
Mar 5, '09
I would be tempted to pile on with a bit of snark that perhaps he could rent that mission accomplished banner from the Dept. of the Navy, but... oh hell, why pretend, I am that juvinile. ;-)
Mar 5, '09
Steve Maurer: Of course you're not, because you'd only reveal your own ignorance. Rusk is entirely correct. Stock ownership is considered a passive investment. JK: Who ever said otherwise? Quit making up things, then accusing me of the made up tings.
Steve Maurer: You have no day-to-day responsibilities of running the corporation. JK: Who ever said otherwise?
Steve Maurer: But your worship of the culture of self-dealing in corporate boardrooms JK: Don’t accuse me of worshiping crime. Quit making things up.
Steve Maurer: So if you intend to convince anyone of your extraordinary claims, saying "you're ignorant and I won't say why" just makes you look like a fool. JK: As usual, you have proven yourself wrong on every point.
BTW, I was the co-founder of Vidicraft and have no idea what happened to it years after selling my share. BTW2, There’s another company that you completely missed. You arrogant fool.
Now, you just made me waste my time educating you. But that is what you do.
Thanks JK
1:55 p.m.
Mar 5, '09
So you claim to have snuck one under the radar and that proves you know about business how precisely?
What fools we are.
Curses!
2:02 p.m.
Mar 5, '09
Forgot to add...
Maybe this part:
However did we get the impression you tried to imply that stock ownership does not constitute "running a business"?
Again, maybe when you said this:
Boy you sure schooled us all. What fools we have been.
Oh the huge manatee!
Mar 5, '09
Posted by: billy | Mar 5, 2009 4:06:50 AM
”Dean" Rusk: Outsourcing to Argentina. B: Your complete ignorance of what is, and isn’t, in the SOS records is showing.
”Dean" Rusk: Stock ownership does not constitute "running a business", B: Again, you show your ignorance.
And, no, I’m not going to waste my time educating you.
B
And while you're at it, could you extend the courtesy to the rest of the blog?
Mar 5, '09
Does one ever get the feeling the political blog comment areas have become the grade school playgrounds of our adulthood?
You have bullies and tormentors
You have kids who take their ball and go home when they don't get what they want
etc, etc
Mar 6, '09
lestatdelc: So you claim to have snuck one under the radar B: I made no such claim. Please learn how to read.
lestatdelc: and that proves you know about business how precisely? B: Is this a trick question?
lestatdelc: What fools we are. B: You got one right.
B
Curses!
2:03 p.m.
Mar 6, '09
Now, you just made me waste my time educating you. But that is what you do.
Is this like the one where the abuser tells the abused: "Don't make me hurt you", thus blaming the victim for the impending attack?
Just wondering.........
Mar 7, '09
Posted by: Richard | Mar 5, 2009 11:46:03 AM
Joel,
You're obviously living in a blue box
Well, yes. Don't you know Oregon Dems are Time Lords ?