Stimulus passes House; DeFazio votes no.
Kari Chisholm
The stimulus package won final passage in the U.S. House today - passing 246 to 183. It didn't get a single Republican vote. Also voting against the bill were seven Democrats, including Oregon's Congressman Peter DeFazio.
The other six are all conservative Democrats from GOP-leaning districts, including three rookies: Bobby Bright (AL-2), Parker Griffith (AL-5), Heath Shuler (NC-11), Gene Taylor (MS-4), Walt Minnick (ID-1), and Collin Peterson (MN-7).
DeFazio had previously expressed frustration with the changes made to the stimulus bill in order to win cloture in the Senate. From the Bend Bulletin:
Senate Democrats should consider taking even tougher measures, said Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Springfield. Democrats wouldn’t need to woo moderate Republicans if they voted to do away with the filibuster, one of the Senate’s oldest and most distinctive procedural maneuvers. It is used to block legislation from coming to a vote, according to the Senate, and is often associated with members speaking for days.“The alternative the Democrats have over there is act like a representative democratic body and change the rules,” DeFazio said. ...
Barring that, the Senate should require Republicans to actually filibuster — that is speak continually on the Senate floor to block debate, DeFazio said. In most cases today, the minority party merely needs to signal the intent to filibuster to require a 60-vote majority.
Talking Points Memo has DeFazio's explanation:
Looking through the vote tally at the seven House Democrats who opposed the final stimulus bill today, you see reliably right-leaning members of the party's Blue Dog Coalition: Reps. Heath Shuler (D-NC), Bobby Bright (D-AL), Walt Minnick (D-ID), Pete DeFazio (D-OR) ... hold on.DeFazio is a stalwart liberal and member of the Progressive Caucus. Why would he vote against the bill his party and president backed so strongly?
As DeFazio explained following the vote, he believed in the bill's education and transportation goals -- though he has long decried the stimulus' shortchanging of infrastructure relative to highways. "I couldn't justify borrowing money for tax cuts," he said. Tax breaks make up more than 35% of the final stimulus bill.
"Come on, school construction?" he asked, visibly frustrated that money for that goal had been sliced from the bill. "Why did that have to come out for more tax cuts?"
When asked about the need to bridge the gap between the House and Senate bills in order to win over the three GOP votes needed to prevent a filibuster, DeFazio was as blunt as can be: "We all know that's a convenient artifice from the Senate ... do away with the filibuster or have a real filibuster. It's convenient for [the Senate]. It gives them clout to push around the House and the president."
Whether you agree with DeFazio or not, liberal Democrats have rarely felt free to buck their party on major votes in recent years. It remains to be seen how the Obama administration and DeFazio's leadership will view his stance.
Fascinating.
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Feb 13, '09
Walden i mean DeFazio undermines cap and trade legislation and now joins the R's voting against the stimulus.
Feb 13, '09
Posted by: ncallero | Feb 13, 2009 1:38:45 PM
Walden i mean DeFazio undermines cap and trade legislation and now joins the R's voting against the stimulus.
and as long as constituents look at it that simplistically, you'll get the crap government you deserve.
A good Congressperson says, "present" and votes for whatever the Majority leader pissed away.
Feb 13, '09
DeFazio was the guy the dems really needed to listen to in Oct about the financial crisis. He was the only one making sense.
2:09 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
Good on DeFazio. It was a free vote for him because the bill was not even close to being in danger of not passing, and DeFazio lays it out correctly on this one. That demonstratively good infrastructure spending like school construction and restoration is exactly the type of stimulus spending we need, and to cut it to pass the change to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) is stupid. Particularly since changing the AMT can and should have been taken up separately and probably would have passed on it's own merits. This is what even The New York Times noted in its editorial today After the Stimulus on passage of the stimulus bill.
Feb 13, '09
I wish Defazio were my Congress critter! I am (inadequately) represented by the decidedly non-progressive Blumenauer, who had this to say about the education piece of the stimulus:
"All the experts will tell you what every family knows: investing in education is one best uses of our dollars. This legislation will make it easier for college students and their families to pay tuition with tax credits and increased Pell grants. There is money for school modernization, and billions of dollars in research is going to find its way to Oregon campuses. Being able to make it a little easier for our students, our teachers, and our communities will pay dividends for years to come."
He goes on to say that the tax cuts are the most important part.
Meanwhile, Defazio decries how the Repubs cut the school construction money in favor of tax cuts. Amen!
2:10 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
Hardly. DeFazio was talking out his ass back in October and thankfully shut up since he didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on that one.
Feb 13, '09
I love Peter DeFazio MWAH!
Feb 13, '09
As I previously warned, when there is no balance there is only...
Facism - Largest spending Bill in US history shoved through in days.
Facism - largest transfer of money from private sector to big Brother, ever, with almost no input from R's or the people, no town halls.
Facism - Republicans not involved in any of the 1,100 pages of bigger government spending.
Facism - One Party-Democrats, vote in lock step, get everything they want, Republicans try to slow it down but D's have all the power.
Facism - Oregon Democrats, knowing they can't be stopped, shove through a $177 Mil. state "stimulus" bill AND increase Oregonians (high unemployment state for years) Federal Tax obligation by $95 million.
Enjoy your short lived majority as more Americans see it play out they will turn back to Republicans and you only have your selfish small minded government will solve everything pea brains to blame.
United Socialist States of America or U.S.S.A., Love the look of that don't ya?
Feb 13, '09
Kari: GREAT post. Thanks very much. Just twittered a link, too -- I want everyone to be more dialed in on the un-necessity of the Senate's faux filibuster rule.
3:12 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
I am outraged by the apparent priorities in the stimulus bill. Congress shaped it wrong from the beginning. And it was not just the Republicans. From what I know, the entire Oregon Congressional delegation did little, and most of it too late, to stabilize education and state government funded programs in Oregon. DeFazio was an early advocate of infrastructure spending, not funding to state governments or education (someone please correct me if I’m wrong). And now, so it seems, he is for funding for school construction while we close school for lack of operating revenues. We’re going to be building roads and bridges as we close schools and lay off teachers. Crazy!
I’ve posted various times on this issue on my own blog. Check out two: (1) “Taking money from schools to build roads is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY” here and (2) “Oregonian spanks Oregon’s congressional delegation” here.
The critical passage is from the Oregonian editorial (2/03/09) (here): “Interviewing members of the Oregon delegation last week after the partisan House vote on the stimulus, we didn't sense any urgency. They talked about politics, the process and some objectionable spending in the stimulus. But not one spoke to the imploding state budget, and none seemed in all that great of a hurry to head off school and prison closures and deep cuts to human services.”
What is DeFazio’s record of advocating for educational operating and state government stabilization funding in this stimulus bill?
Feb 13, '09
Good job MS Bellows. :wave: ;)
3:20 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
So are you suggesting that DeFazio opposes the Obama middle-class tax cuts?
No knock to Pete DeFazio who I think is usually a reliable progressive (particularly given his district) but you would have to be in la-la-land to assert that DeFazio is more progressive than Earl Bluemenauer.
For the record, here is the full text of what Blumenauer put out today which you seem to have a problem with:
3:23 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
So which is it? Fascism or socialism?
You conservative clowns can't even keep your boogeyman cardboard villains straight, and you ass-clowns are supposed to be taken seriously, much less given back the levers of power?
Try engaging your brain before you post next time.
3:39 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
This bill, while I would agree may not be large enough, does provide $53.6 billion for the State Fiscal Stabilization Fund, including $39.5 billion to local school districts using existing funding formulas, which can be used for preventing cutbacks, preventing layoffs, school modernization, or other purposes.
Provides $5 billion to states as bonus grants for meeting key performance measures in education; and $8.8 billion to states for high priority needs such as public safety and other critical services, which may include education and for modernization, renovation and repairs of public school facilities and institutions of higher education facilities.
Provides $13 billion for Title 1 to help close the achievement gap.
Provides $12.2 billion for Special Education/IDEA to improve educational outcomes for disabled children. This level of funding will increase the Federal share of special education services to its highest level ever.
Provides $15.6 billion to increase the maximum Pell Grant by $500.
It's worth noting that the funding construction jobs for building and improving school facilities which in turn helps stem the strain on the budget (the more with a paycheck the better the revenue and less drain on unemployment, etc.)
Would I have preferred the AMT tax cut not be in this bill and that amount be in more aid to states? Absolutely.
Do I wish the amounts were larger by at least 50%? Hell yes.
But as I have said before, we have to remember that this is only the first step of many big moves that can and will be taken. This, and the financial stabilization package are the triage stage, not to mention the regular budget and the regular appropriations bills, like the omnibus appropriations bill, the transportation appropriation bill, etc.
Feb 13, '09
Come on Kari. It was a free vote. Peter may be a progressive, but his district isn't. Down district is a lot more moderate than he is and he knows it.
If he votes yes on this and it blows up later, he has a vulnerability. There's no cost to him to deflect attention by making it about the filibuster and vote to buy insurance. Peter has a long history of voting contrary, playing Don Quixote and then changing the subject.
3:48 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
Why is it that nearly every Democrat is holding their breath, hoping that the Senate passes this bill which is supported nationally by a huge majority of Democrats and a majority of the American people, and most of the responders to this post talk like they wish it hadn't passed? Yes it isn't the bill any of us would have designed, yes there are tax give-aways that are stupid, but that is how Congress works. I learned that in 5th grade. Until we get past 60 progressive Democrats in the Senate we all need to deal with reality, not what we wished would happen.
Feb 13, '09
I don't know why I bother with you people but here...
Facism - "A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism." (From The American Heritage Dictionary)
Definitions of socialism on the Web: • a political theory advocating state ownership of industry • an economic system based on state ownership of capital wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
"You cannot allow tens of millions of people to come to your Nation from the 3rd World that have no job and local language skills while also having a Welfare state and expect each to benefit the other in a capitolist society." "What will happen with so many permanentally low income workers who therefore qualify for all of the social programs is the receiving Nation's outlay of benefits will far exceed the revenue to provide such benefits and fiscal Bankruptcy will then be a reality." "This can cause a previously capitolist nation to become a Socialist society to be formed with a Facist leadership in place."
Massive Illiegal immigration and the resulting wage suppression and increased need for government support IS destroying my Child's dreams of American prosperity and yours too.
Proof? Yet another $750 Billion plus loan via the Government or else...
4:08 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
"Tax breaks make up more than 35% of the final stimulus bill."
Funny, I thought Reagan's voodoo economics of the last 3 decades were what had led us to this predicament; now a Democratic Congress doubles down on the same policies? Gotta scratch my head now...
DeFazio's right--the Dems should have made the GOP filibuster; to show their true colors. When their office phones started ringing, there would have been more than 3 Repubicans who would have changed their votes within a week. Instead, the Pelosi and Reid have once more shown their true colors--yellow. And the R's know it.
Feb 13, '09
Remember the old Saturday Live gag?
"It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!"
Well then...it's fascism AND socialism. Or maybe National Socialism, sieg heil.
It must be fun, in a twisted way, being a dittohead. No thinking necessary: just tune in to the hate show of the moment to get your talking points from the Real Leaders of the Republican Party.
Feb 13, '09
Seen on a Texas truck: "Vote Republican. It's easier than thinking". You can decide what they meant by it.
Feb 13, '09
Posted by: Rick Hickey | Feb 13, 2009 4:07:03 PM
I don't know why I bother with you people but here...
Facism - ...(From The American Heritage Dictionary)
Because your crowd doesn't think. What the hell does the American Heritage Dictionary know about fascism? No doubt why the internet definitions. Makes it much more solid. Personally, I would ask a fascist. Here's one now. Benito, what's fascism? "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power". Thank you, Benito. Would you call Silvio Berlusconi a fascist? "Si". And the United States? "I like what America has become; she is very beautiful now, in my eyes".
Feb 13, '09
DeFazio is a hot dog narcissist of the first order. He is doing Rush Limbaugh's work now. Politics is the art of the possible and if DeFazio wants to highlight his alleged purity he should campaign for the virginity party. He's not a Democrat and he's for himself and his own histrionics. I hope he now feels some pain and consequences for his stupidity.
Feb 13, '09
heh - only in America is letting the people keep a bit more of their own money viewed as 'government spending'...
What a country!
5:11 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
President Obama noted that the "stimulus" bill is not perfect -- saying that after all it does come out of Washington. A lot of the things that DeFazio or any of us would have wanted are regular budget items and will very likely come up relatively soon. I for one can't fault DeFazio for voting against the bill because it's deeply flawed. However, readjusting the AMT trigger was the right thing to do.
Several have already noted the worst aspect of this whole legislative process, namely the Senate's cloture rule. It needs to be readjusted and there's precedent for doing so. I'm wondering if we should be having a conversation about that sort of thing with Senator Merkley. One aspect of this is that the current majority leader is far too timid, weak, and ineffective. We need a Senate majority leader with a spine and maybe again that's the sort of thing we need to talk to Senator Merkley about.
5:15 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
We were wondering the same thing.
As 'Zarathustra with Benito Mussolini' pointed out, Benito Mussolini (you know the guy who created fascism) said, "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power".
Which fairly describes the corporate cronyism of the Bush regime. The core concepts of fascism are:
• Nationalism • Authoritarianism • Social Darwinism • Militarism • Single-party state • Dictatorship
Nationalism
"Fascists sees the struggle of nation and race as fundamental in society, in opposition to communism's perception of class struggle. Fascists promote the unification and expansion of influence, power, and/or territory of and for their nation. This for your edification is best demonstrated in the "USA, USA" America love it or leave jingoistic hubris of the GOP hyper nationalists."
Authoritarianism
"All fascist movements advocate the creation of an authoritarian government that is an autocratic single-party state led by a dictator. Political theorist Carl Schmitt, as a Nazi party member, published The Legal Basis of the Total State in 1935, describing the Nazi regime's intention to form a totalitarian state:"
Hmmm, sounds familiar to the rants by the Fox News shit-heads railing against diversity and multiculturalism, etc. no?
Social Darwinism
"Fascist movements have commonly held social darwinist views of nations, races, and societies.[78] Italian Fascist Alfredo Rocco shortly after World War I claimed that conflict was inevitable in society:
Can we say trickle-down, invisible-hand economic theory?"
Militarism
Hmmm. which party and political group has the military fetish and which one wants to reduce our militaristic attitudes and re-prioritize our defense spending?
I'll let you and other ponder that one for a bit... next?
Single-party state
Just after the 2004 presidential election Karl Rove, the president's "brain," coined the phrase "a permanent Republican majority."
'nuff said. Some other odds and ends...
Positions on abortion, eugenics and euthanasia
The fascist government in Italy banned abortion and literature on birth control in 1926, declaring them both crimes against the state.[87] The fascist government began the "Battle for Births" in 1927, a measure against birth control and abortion.[citation needed]
Nazi eugenics placed the improvement of the Germanic race through eugenics at the center of their concerns, and targeted humans they identified as "life unworthy of life" (German Lebensunwertes Leben), such as mentally and physically disabled, homosexual, feeble-minded, insane, and weak people.
Hmmm... against abortion, birth control, but for eliminating homosexuals, weak, people with mental-health problems... gee, I wonder which political party embraces those positions?
Care to help me out here?
Am I saying that the GOP are Nazi's or fascists, no. They are to stupid and incompetent to be real ones, but please don't project your fucked up anti-social world-view and that of the GOP lug-nuts onto progressives.
That said, the point at hand was (and is) that fascism and socialism are not even close to the same thing, and in fact the fascists and socialists were literally at war with each other, or perhaps you never heard of a thing called World War II where untold millions were killed when socialist Soviet Union and Fascist German were not exactly having a heart-to-heart.
As I said, get your cardboard cutout villain talking points worked out before you post, though I doubt it will prevent you from being an idiot, nor prevent you from pushing patently phony nonsense.
Feb 13, '09
Another way to look at what DeFazio voted against.
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/stimulating
These protest votes by DeFazio are not what I want in a responsible representative. Maybe it is time to primary Pete.
Feb 13, '09
I sure won't argue with anyone from the left that proposes that the tax code needs fixing, in a serious manner, but I'll back Pete on the inclusion of tax cuts in this bill as stupid and extremely shortsighted. It may be important enough an issue to blow a hole in the budget, but tax cuts only aggravate the issue without any realistic effect.
It isn't however an issue of a fillibuster, it is an issue of deficit spending requiring 3/5 vote. I made the same mistake a few days ago because the numbers are the same. It may amount to the same result but it isn't the same thing. In particular, Reid isn't at fault for it, this time.
6:01 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
Hickey v. Hickey:
Facism - "A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control...and often a policy of belligerent nationalism."
"You cannot allow tens of millions of people to come to your Nation from the 3rd World that have no job and local language skills while also having a Welfare state and expect each to benefit the other in a capitolist [sic] society."
I nominate Hickey for the Glenn Beck Award.
Feb 13, '09
Facism - Largest spending Bill in US history shoved through in days.
With the war on Iraq estimated to eventually cost two to three TRILLION dollars and hundreds of thousands of people their lives and millions their well-being this bill doesn't come close. Bush and Cheney and their supporters (Republican and Democrat) can continue to claim the title of biggest spenders.
6:34 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
Take that Dennis Kucinich...DeFazio is the one with the 'eye's that see through the lies'! ;)
Feb 13, '09
Well Democrats, as a conservative/libertarian who despises the GOP and GW Bush I can guarantee that you guys will be in the minority again in two years. This "stimulus" plan will just be more waste that will not change the economy one iota for the better. People will still be unemployed and now in more debt due to government waste. And look at the pathetic passage ... I looked at the 647 page bill and to think everyone voted on this without even reading it. That is what represenatives do? Just vote on things they don't even read! What a joke. In two years, the GOP is back in business. And Obama and his corporate friends have just given you a big con job that you won't fathom til later.
Feb 13, '09
Brian, Oh ye of little faith.
What is the Republican solution--more tax cuts?
As far as voting on things they don't read, yeah we could have debated every part of this and still be having procedural votes come Easter. Would that really have solved anything?
Next year one of 3 things will be true:
Carpenters, plumbers, electricians, construction workers etc. will have been put back to work--paying taxes, paying their bills, maybe even buying extra things once in awhile. This will allow other companies to hire people who will then have some extra income. And the economy will turn around.
OR it is a total flop, Republicans find a positive message other than "SEE! It didn't work!", find a leader, and win some elections so that they are responsible for the economy.
OR things aren't perfect, but they are getting better, and people tired of hearing that tax cuts solve everything tell Republican candidates "if you keep telling us tax cuts solve everything and we should vote for you because you don't like Democrats, we don't have to vote for you--partisanship is less important than problem solving".
Talked to someone today who was in elementary school when Reagan was elected. We were talking about the GOP legislative newsletters screaming about the legislature passing a tax disconnect bill with a simple majority because if they had waited until after the stimulus package passed it would have required 3/5 majority. I asked if he thought young people cared about that because the young people I know have other things going on in their lives and don't follow the legislature closely. He said "All they care about is GET IT DONE!".
Talked with someone else today about these Republicans complaining they hadn't been able to read the thick bill. I said "anyone who voted for the Patriot Act and some of those other Republican bills without reading them lost the right to complain about this" and the young woman said "You got that right!".
Brian, I'd like to see you working on a GOP campaign next year and discover whether the voters in whatever jurisdiction see the world your way or more like what I have described. I do not know how voters will view things next year. But then I never claimed to be able to see the future the way you do.
8:33 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
Just passed the senate...
Feb 13, '09
DeFazio's rant about the senate would make more sense if we hadn't recently lived through years of Republican majorities in the House and Senate. If not for the ability to filibuster, the Republican majority would have repealed the estate tax, eliminated capital gains taxes, imposed severe caps on jury awards, rolled back abortion protections, and so on. The filibuster is inconvenient for every majority, but are our memories really that short?
I'm with anon - this was a clever vote for Peter, who now gets to play the populist card with Republicans and talk about how he voted against the wasteful stimulus bill, while telling liberals out of the other side of his mouth that his was a protest vote against education cuts. Classic DeFazio play - convincing both sides he's with them.
Feb 13, '09
Posted by: lestatdelc | Feb 13, 2009 5:15:54 PM
Outstanding post. Very well articulated. A pleasure to read. Thank you
10:46 p.m.
Feb 13, '09
I wonder if SEC. 1109. PROHIBITED USES was changed at all? I'd love to see stimulus funds be used to build a swimming pool for needy children...or a putt-putt golf course.
Feb 14, '09
Don't know how many times I've heard "respected" members of the media talk about screwing the GOP and just forcing the GOP to filibuster the stimulus bill. (Chris Matthews and many others). The sad truth is - because of the House Budget act - 60 votes are required in the Senate for a bill like this, that adds to the deficit. The Senate needed 60 votes to get this thing through. Period. So maybe we should lay off Snowe, Collins, Nelson et. al. and people who should know better than bashing the GOPers for watering down the bill. There would be no bill without them.
Feb 14, '09
alcatross:
heh - only in America is letting the people keep a bit more of their own money viewed as 'government spending'...
Bob T:
Yup -- it's truly Orwellian. Since the employer is paying out the gross every payday, the money is coming from the employer's revenues etc. If he's told that your tax rate is now lower, he cuts you a check for more take-home pay. Yes, the employer does -- not the government. My boss has the money for me every week. That's where it comes from.
Bob Tiernan Mult Co.
Feb 14, '09
lestadelc:
Hmmm... against abortion, birth control, but for eliminating homosexuals, weak, people with mental-health problems... gee, I wonder which political party embraces those positions?
Bob T:
Sounds like Margaret Sanger, who also like abortion to limit non-whites in America. I wasn't aware that she was a Republican.
lestadelc:
That said, the point at hand was (and is) that fascism and socialism are not even close to the same thing
Bob T:
Well, yes, they are.
lestadelc:
and in fact the fascists and socialists were literally at war with each other, or perhaps you never heard of a thing called World War II where untold millions were killed when socialist Soviet Union and Fascist German were not exactly having a heart-to-heart.
Bob T:
neighboring dictatorships can often fight each other despite many similarities. Iran and Iraq in the 80's, for example. Unless you're gonna tell me that one was Muslim and the other wasn't. Anyway, the Soviet model was of an international type (hence the long-time exportation of revolutionary movements etc) while the German model cared about Germany first and saw themselves as Germans rather than so-called citizens of the world. But this is minor in the big picture. It's also part of stupid argument everyone gets in about which side resembles the Nazis more. By the way, were you aware that in the 1930s there were writings in America by people then known as liberals who compared the New Deal to fascism?
Also, the beloved Sam Adams wants to meld local government and millionaire businessmen to get a renovated PGE Park and a new stadium so we can get bread and circuses. Is Adams a "fascist" in your book? You see, this is what happens when idiots like you have a too-simple definition of fascism. But whatever any stadium deal is called, I'm against it, and almost all progressives (so-called) in this area will let it happen. Prove me wrong, please. Yes, it might hurt to be on the same side as the Cascade Policy Institute, but try anyway.
Bob Tiernan Mult Co.
Feb 14, '09
The best "tag" description I've seen for this is "Fascist Corporatism." Larry Arnhart over at Darwinian Conservatism has a good explanation of how the Bush-Obama plans take their cue directly from Mussolini's "The Doctrine of Fascism," especially his criticisms of the individualism of classical liberalism and his argument for the corporative system in which "divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State." So, yes, what Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini failed to institute in the 1930s and 1940s, Bush has revived and Obama is marching toward it full-speed ahead.
As for the cost of all this debt, contrary to Bill Bodden's contention, it dwarfs the Iraq War. It dwarfs anything we have ever seen before, as Niall Ferguson points out over at Huffington Post:
In short, we're screwed, and nothing Obama is doing yet is going to reverse that. He's just continuing down the disastrous path Bush set us on.
4:45 a.m.
Feb 14, '09
people! stop arguing with Rick Hickey about definitions of "fascism". there's no point.
Lestatdelc had it right up top with "assclown". Theonly redeeming thing about Rick's posts here is that he uses his real name -- unlike so many of his cowardly assclown friends.
Feb 14, '09
Hark! Kari doth proclaim throughout the land of Blue Oregon Lestatdelc had it right up top with "assclown". Theonly redeeming thing about Rick's posts here is that he uses his real name -- unlike so many of his cowardly assclown friends.
So let it be written.
Or is it just the rule here that the first viewpoint (even if from someone who doesn't use his real name) to dive into uncivil name-calling wins? Speaking of what may or may not be redeeming...
Feb 14, '09
"Politics is the art of the possible and if DeFazio wants to highlight his alleged purity he should campaign for the virginity party. He's not a Democrat and he's for himself and his own histrionics. I hope he now feels some pain and consequences for his stupidity."
So are you saying that this bill is the best possible bill we could have gotten? Do not Democrats have enough of a majority to get rid of the filibuster and pass whatever the hell they want?
9:21 a.m.
Feb 14, '09
Obama's been in office less than a month; his #1 project of ending the broken thinking (aka selfish partisanism) will take more than even his 8 years of office. he had to get a stimulus bill passed, and, because of the cowardly way Harry Reid runs the Senate (let the GOP filibuster; jesus, the public would bitch-slap them down so fast - remember Clinton twice staring down Gingrich by shutting down govt, with the public's support), Obama had no choice but to let the 3 Idiots gut some of the most needed elements of the package. thankfully, the House restored a lot of that, and 3 Moderate Mudheads didn't have the gall to try and take down both Houses of Congress (their 15 minutes were up).
so we get a huge dose of stimulus, we get another chance to see tax cuts fail, and we get to move past this initial Biggest Thing Ever. more stimulus money will be coming over the rest of the year; it'll just be in smaller does thru normal govt spending. (does anyone seriously think Obama believes this is enough? that he's not going to find ways to pump more money to where he thinks it will create jobs and help the economy? i'm really tired of people acting like the guy just fell off the turnip truck.) the most important thing now, of course (apart from getting our troops home - call your state rep to vote for HB 2556 & HR 4) - is health care. and the most important thing Obama can do to begin that process is name Dr Howard Dean to head HHS — and yes, ok Julie Magers, to name Dr John Kitzhaber as Health Care Czar.
10:07 a.m.
Feb 14, '09
T.A. - "bitch slap"? Come on, man, that's crass.
Feb 14, '09
I think the continued total party line vote by both sides on this and other legislation is harmful. First, I am disappointed that more R's didn't support the stimulus package. I would have voted for it with some reservations, but I have no problem with DeFazio's vote. Continued Republican tax cuts during the Bush years led to the current $10 trillion dollar deficit, so why more cuts now? Maybe it was necessary to win over the three Senate R moderates, but I'm guessing they would have come over anyway.
I wish there had been more DeFazio Democrats in the '90s who voted against CLinton-Gore free trade policies like NAFTA. Clinton ran against Reagan-Bush outsourcing, but then sold out and was as bad on trade than the R's. He managed to use party loyalty/unity to win over liberals like Tom Harkin, Ted Kennedy, etc... I will forever be grateful to Democrats like DeFazio, Paul Wellstone, Fritz Hollings, and other populists who voted for family wage jobs for American workers during the 90's when too many D's did not.
Feb 14, '09
As an aside on fascism and is the US... I got a 1943 Mercury dime in my change yesterday, turned it over and was reminded that there is "that Roman bound bundle of sticks" on the obverse. Didn't bother to look it up, but if memory serves (sorry, too busy to look it up), that was called a "fasci" and it was the origin of the word "fascist". The idea was that a dry twig isn't strong, but bundled together they are unbreakable. As lestat pointed out, it's also the methods and attitudes that make fascism. Namely, what do you do with those that don't bundle well? If you look at it that way, Bush/Cheney was quite fascist.
Posted by: Kari Chisholm | Feb 14, 2009 4:45:19 AM
people! stop arguing with Rick Hickey about definitions of "fascism". there's no point.
Lestatdelc had it right up top with "assclown". Theonly redeeming thing about Rick's posts here is that he uses his real name -- unlike so many of his cowardly assclown friends.
Not that it probably isn't cowardly, but it would really help if there was a TypePad login process, or whatever, allowing the preservation of aliases, but grounding them in a real registration database. I used my real name twice and was immediately inundated with political hacks (including some fresh ones from Oregon), people I really didn't care to speak to again, grade school Rushies, all reminding me why I was hesitant to use my name in the first place. We've had the discussion about running for public office, and becoming available for public scrutiny. You shouldn't have to make the same commitment to have an opinion, though.
You might be surprised at the results. I am a bit shocked the language I used in my two, real named posts. For me, I'm more conservative in my language when it's anonymous, which I doubt would be perceived as all bad. It's down to character, which, to be fair, was your point.
Personally, I prefer the Jamaican "rasclot" to "assclown". Besides meaning basically the same thing but being somewhat opaque, it allows for the terminally vulgar follow-up, "bloodclot".
Feb 14, '09
Re: "Politics is the art of the possible."
This is the difference between hacks like Pelosi, Reid or Blumenauer, and progressives.
"Politics is the art of creating the possible. And what is possible is about what people believe is possible." (quote from Physicians for a National Health Program)
Feb 14, '09
I thought Facism was according social benefit according to how good looking people are. Or does Rick Hickey just not know how to spell Fascism?
Feb 14, '09
"One has no rules, is not precise One rarely acts the same way twice One spurns no device Practising the art of the possible
One always picks the easy fight One praises fools, one smothers light One shifts left to right It’s part of the art of the possible."
(Tim Rice lyrics from 'The Art of the Possible' in original stage productions of the musical 'Evita'...)
5:29 p.m.
Feb 14, '09
Point of clarificatio and maybe you are relatively new to BlueOregon, but for years when I have been posting under this screen name (the same one I have used since the early 90s) I always signed my posts with my real (Mitch Gore) in the post itself.
I stopped posting regularly last year as I was way too busy with work and other things, and since returning haven't been to concerned that most of the people here somehow forgot me. But your comment is a good reminder that I shouldn't make that assumption.
Feb 15, '09
Actually, how much can anyone complain, when the biggest troll (JK) tries to use his real name and it's added to the spam filter? See, I'll go wherever the logic takes me, even to defending "billy", though I'm now going to go wash my hands.
Mar 3, '09