Well Jeff it appears you haven't even looked at the "stimulus" package.

Or perhaps you find nothing that should not be in it?

OK you Ds own it. Be proud. It's a Trillion dollar stimulus for the nanny state packed so full of pork it's beyond insulting.

$726 million for after school snacks? How's that for a platitude? Some stimulus!

As for Obama, he's been claiming his administration will be held accoutnable for this. How's that? The money will be spent, debt soared and no one inhis administration or congress will face any consequences for where it went or what it didn't do. That's accountability.

I'm glad no Republican voted for it. Your twist that they don't recognize their minority status is silly.

What's clear is this is a Democrat controlled DC and a Democrat stimulus package.

Sweet metaphor. I didn't particularly care for it when Baker used it to express that we shouldn't intervene in the Balkans, but it is a little less obnoxious used on Reps. Personally, I care more about results than party success, but definitely empathize with the glee at confounding people that have become used to neocon simple mindedness. My favorite one today, from the Manchester Guardian: <quote> Revealed: the letter Obama team hope will heal Iran rift

Symbolic gesture gives assurances that US does not want to topple Islamic regime

Soft-spoken line from US may terrify Tehran </quote>

But the Reps promised that "our enemies" were going to be glad to have a leftist in office! Yup. Shore thang. You betcha.

"Having failed to negotiate in good faith, won't this make Obama and the Democratic majority far less interested in offering crumbs? ... Snits are not a long-term strategy."

I disagree and would posit that theirs is an exclusively long-term strategy. It is based on the notion that the crumbs are worthless, so why collect them for two years, even if offered. Instead, oppose everything whether it makes sense or not, in a gamble that should the stimulus fail, you are all on record opposing it, and you can run against it in 2010. It is based on the belief that since Ds have enough to pass it, their dissent won't actually have consequences. Were they to have thanked Obama for the bipartisan gesture and given him 50-100 votes, (whether it works or not) they would be worse off when it came time for re-election. It would have merely sent Obama's approval thru the roof (as the bipartisan change agent who finally beat Washington's ways) and further threatened their chance for taking back power. This is an easier strategy to pull off when fewer and fewer of their members are from swing-ish districts. We will see much more of this in 2009 before they start making short-term calculations based on whatever political reality reveals itself in 2010.

Jeff,

You may want to look into the details a bit more.

11 Democrats also did not vote for the stimulus package. There is bipartisan opposition to this package.

As the other commenter noted, there is plenty of waste in this package. Do you recall that Obama asked that Congress NOT fill the package with amendments that many would view as unnecessary pork?

This bill was railroaded thru Congress.

Jeff,

No pun intended, but just because we're in the minority doesn't mean we're not right. This stimulus package was a horrible idea and I'm glad that 11 Democrats looked past the glamor and the hype to see the reality.

You want to see what socialism does to a society, take a look at the former Soviet Union. We've been living in an increasingly socialist society since the early 90's and we're deteriorating in what could only be described as a "textbook" fashion. The only way out of this recession is investment and growth in small business--not government jobs, not corporation, not socialism. Today's small businesses will create tomorrow's giants if we unleash their potential and allow them the opportunity to grow.

For example--The Big 3 are dead, but tomorrow's automakers who will create electric, hydrogen, and other alternative energy cars are just beginning. We need to create a positive environment for growth by offering them tax breaks and incentives that encourage them to be employee owned, have an open workforce, and remain competitive. (If you want to toss in some incentives for green building, be my guest--it's a smart way to go)

President Obama spent so of his inauguration speech stressing the role of the people in government. Why then do Democrats still cling the outdated mantra that "government is the solution, government will take care of us", repeated like so many Orwellean drones. Today's Democrats should not be "big government" any more than today's Republicans should be "big corporation".

Mr Obama reaches across the aisle with that type of stimulus, and everybody will be willing to come along with him.

Conservative Northwest,

You lost the election and you are wrong. McCain's economic plan was classic Reagan tax cuts and limited government. Well, McCain ain't in the oval office so there you go for how the American people view your increasingly rural reactionary party that is stuck in 1981.

I have no qualms about badmouthing failed communist experiments. Everything from Lenin onwards was a dictatorship enforced by a cult of personality and pogroms in Siberia.

The term "the Big 3" died about a decade ago when they became the American 3 as Americans were voting with their pocket book and buying more reliable, environmental friendly foreign vehicles. Ford is still alive and kicking so don't the original one out just yet.

What Obama and his cronies will not tell you is this: The stimulus package ain't meant to help individuals right now. It has nothing to do with jobs that provide a "living wage" such as those good ole, blue collar manufacturing jobs that were outsourced from the "Heartland" to China, Mexico and other third world shit holes under Reagan, Bush I Clinton and NAFTA, Bush II and now Obama; it is solely about politics and creating a legion of welfare voters who will vote Democrat because Democrats will give them their welfare check.

As for outdated mantras, Republicans need to understand that what worked for Reagan did not work for Bush II and ushering forth that tired ass rhetoric from 1994 will doom Republicans in 2012.

Reagan never got the spending cuts he was promised by congress and Bush abondoned fiscal conservatism and never vetoed anything.
So don't pretend we've been there and done that. Never happened. Goverment and government spending has grown far beyond our ability to fund it. Now we have government leaping into the spending abyss without any prudence whatsoever.

Why can't you recognize such obvious and obvious trend?

We are never going ot be able to pay for the mammouth government we have created.

We are never going ot be able to pay for the mammouth government we have created.

We??? Did you buy a Congressman? Do favors for the Bush family? Have a mouse in your pocket? Vote for one of the only two choices that weren't "throwing your vote away"? Most Americans had nothing to do with this. Every American had other choices. Our children don't though, and that is why you shouldn't be electing anyone now that won't be alive when the chickens come home to roost.

Odd... With the Republican/Conservative majority, Democratic/Liberal dissent was promoted as patriotic duty. But now with a Democratic/Liberal majority, Republican/Conservative dissent is a snit.

This must be the corollary to the Democratic/Liberal definition of bipartisanship being when Republicans/Conservatives completely give in.

Thanks TA & Kari, for making it clear that you see nothing wrong with this sort of insanity labeled economic stimulus. With that $726 million for after school snacks being OK with you it's clear also that you recognize no pork or waste and spending for the sake of spending is good.

TA looks at the package as "borrowing a trillion to crank up the economy is a smart investment"?

There again it appears that it simply does not matter what the money is spent on. It's all good investment? It will crank up the economy?
Amazing.

Businesses do this all the time, with great success? Yeah sure they do.

And "the huge GOP-built debt"?

The huge debt is congress/government-built.

How you can disconnect the Dems and government itself is beyond crazy.

Let me rephrase/clarify for T.A. Barnhart's benefit:

With a Republican/Conservative (R/C) majority, Democratic/Liberal (D/L) dissent was promoted by D/Ls as patriotic duty. But now with a D/L majority, R/C dissent is termed a snit.

Politics is politics... if the big stimulus package (which I personally don't favor) proves to truly stimulate and not just be another big barrel of pork, Obama and D/Ls in Congress will be heroes in 2 years and will club R/Cs in off-year elections. But if not, R/Cs will have legitimate standing to run against Obama's policy with people of my persuasion (recently still ~46% of the electorate) I find Obama likable enough and support him on some things - this stimulus bill isn't one of them though.

You and Obama are going to get the chance to try things your way now - with or without R/C votes. What are you complaining about?

Bush and R/C Congress too often abandoned R/C principles on government spending during his terms - often to curry favor with D/Ls. And look where it got him. No need now for R/Cs to keep making the same mistake.

OMG, republicans have discovered the budget deficit government and waste after shooting both through the stratosphere over the last eight years! Isn't that precious. Go ahead republicans and oppose everything Obama wants to do in the next two years. I dare you! Do you really think that's going to work?

The repubs got hammered in the last two election cycles and they still don't have a clue why. Their only strategy is to do more of the same. Go to it. They may think their unpopularity is all about Bush being stupid and incompetent but it goes much, much deeper than that.

The truth is Conservatism doesn't work in the real world. We tried it. We didn't like it. End of story. You had your chance for the last 28 years. You blew it. It's an ideology that is as dead as Communism only it just doesn't know it yet. All you have left today is bunch of conservative republicans loudly dedicating themselves to mucking up the works like a bunch of ancients Stalinists, pining for the imaginary good old days while average Americans lose their jobs, their houses and their health insurance.

If the repubs think that getting hammered in the last two election cycles after they thought they were on their way to 'establishing a permanent republican majority,' is the worst it can get; Let's wait and see. I think it can get way worse. Republican could eventually end up being the answer to the "Trivial Pursuit" question, "What entity used to be a political party?"

So republicans just keep on trying to screw the American People and see how that works out for you.

Albatross, I guess it wasn't too smart to piss away the budget surplus and have nothing from your pointless war to show for it, was it! When you compare what Shrub came in with and left with for a deficit, you should have been trying to overthrow the government! You sound like a person that's counseling someone that has run up $435,000 in gambling debts, on a minimum wage job, and your first advice is that they just have to stop spending, period. They can't afford the $2000 to get bankruptcy protection from the courts. You're right. They can't. But they have no choice. You all pissed it away, for not one damned thing, why are you whining at us for doing something to manage it?!?

It would be fascinating to see what the wingnuts would write if President Obama and the Democrats governed the way that George W. Bush and the Republicans did: that is, if they portrayed all opposition not as loyal and possibly principled, but rather as treacherous and corrupt.

Meanwhile, they can flip on their radios and tune into the actual leader of the national Republican Party: Rush Limbaugh.

As for Alworth's original commentary, look, there is going to be no bipartisanship with Obama, just as there was none with Bill Clinton. Better that Obama learn this now, and be realistic henceforth, than get suckered by GOP arguments. As I read on another blog, the GOP won't respect you unless you come at them like a street fighter with a knife, because that's the only way they know how to operate, especially now that they, with the voters' help, have successfully purged themselves of those awful RINOs, those holdouts who weren't marching in ideological lockstep with Rush Limbaugh and the Cult of the Dear Leader Ronald Reagan.

"More big government spending on liberal government programs won't put Americans back to work"

Hmm, when did we hear this before from Republicans? Oh yeah -- 1933.

Republicans still evidently think "liberal" is a dirty word. Somebody once said of the Bourbons that they remembered everything and learned nothing. That applies equally well to today's Republicans.

Republicans have no qualms about handing over hundreds of billions to hedge fund managers and bankers so they can continue to fly in private jets and spend millions redecorating their offices, but god forbid government should spend any money in ways that might help the people who actually WORK and PRODUCE THINGS in this country.

If Republicans want to continue the class war against working Americans they have been waging for the past 30 years, I say BRING IT ON. The other side is finally shooting back.

From http://thehill.com

“I’m concerned that bad process leads to a bad product,” said Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.), who said he cast a “reluctant yes” vote.

“I’m willing to give the president and the Senate the chance to make this a better bill,” he added, reflecting a sentiment shared by both some Democrats and nearly all Republicans.

Despite what some described as “significant” Democratic trepidation, a number of Democrats said that many in the caucus were very hesitant to deliver any kind of blow to their president during his second week in office.

For the 11 Democrats, though – mainly a mix of fiscally conservative Blue Dog Democrats and newly elected Freshmen – it was just as important to send a message to their leaders that they have more work to do.

“His bill was fine,” Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.), a veteran Blue Dog said, referring to Obama. “Congress messed it up.”

“It’s not going to be passed for two weeks,” Cooper added. “Can’t we spend a little more time crafting a better package?”

"You want to see what socialism does to a society, take a look at the former Soviet Union."

False comparison -- that was state socialism, a system in which the government owns and controls the means of production.

Instead why not look at France, Germany, Britain, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands -- almost ANY other developed "socialist" country where working people enjoy access to health care, excellent schools, excellent public transportation and other public services that Americans can only dream about?

The bizarre American blend of capitalism and socialism -- i.e., socialism for the rich and capitalism for everybody else -- has meant, for most Americans, declining real incomes, declining wealth, financial insecurity, less upward mobility, and now economic collapse.

But here's what I don't understand: don't they realize they're in the minority?

They (Reps) may be in a minority, but they have more guts to fight than the Dems. Unfortunately, in both instances. Their aggression, odious and selfish as it may be, trumps the Democrats' spinelessness. In addition to impeachment not being on the table in the previous Congress standing up to GOP bullying is also "off the table" in the present. More regrettable, however, bi-partisanship managed to prevail when it came to approving Israel's war crimes in Gaza.

On the other hand, the failure of Democrats to stand up to the GOP thuggery may in many cases be attributable to the fact they are taking bribes in the form of campaign donations from the same corporations and special-interest groups.

Then there is the other problem that Michael Moore noted in "Sicko." The American people fear their government whereas the French government fears its people. Why should the American government fear the American people when they meekly accept losing their jobs and moving out of their homes and into homeless shelters or sleeping under bridges? Or, commit suicide, which has the advantage of saving government from having to pay unemployment compensation.

Well, it's becoming obvious that he can't expect any cooperation from even those of the old guard that Obama put in his administration. Care to revisit this post, this thinking that "they could be of use", in light of this week's events? Unfortunately, it's as big a complication as this was a sign of new strength.

The American people fear their government whereas the French government fears its people.

<h2>and according to a great blog, "The Daily Beast", that's literally where Americans are at with corporate execs , wanting to storm the Bastille.</h2>