BlueOregon, Vets - Sound off!
T.A. Barnhart
One of the most heinous charges leveled at liberals over the past half-century is that we are "soft" on matters regarding national defense. Forget the war and military records of some the nation's most outstanding liberals -- John Kennedy, George McGovern, John Kerry, Wesley Clark, and that's just the first four who come to mind -- the idea that half the nation doesn't care about our shared security is simply outrageous. Worse, the old charge of being soft has been purposefully morphed by the neocons -- most of whom are chickenhawks of various yellow-bellied sorts -- into being traitors. The swiftboating of Capt John Kerry and the unspeakable slandering of Max Cleland are simply the most egegrious examples of this crime.
I am a liberal; I am a vet. My father and grandfather were vets; both of my sons currently serve their nation. And I believe I am not atypical. I know that most American liberals (even those hiding from that label) are patriots, and that many of them have served their country, willingly and bravely. To assert that the conservatives and neocons have a monopoly on this service is both a lie, and, given the track record of many leading neocons, a farce.
So today as we celebrate and honor America's service veterans, I'm asking BlueOregon posters, commentors and lurkers to stand up and being counted. Please, give your name (not your nick), your branch and time of service, and where you served. Feel free to add the names of your family members, too. I'll begin below the fold. If you are the child or widow(er) of a deceased vet, please, too, add their names.
I am a pacifist, but I am proud that I gave four years to my nation's defense. I was fortunate to serve in a time of peace and to have been sent to a great place for my duty (England). But serve I did, continuing a tradition of Barnharts serving their country that dates back at least to the Civil War when a now-unknown 16-year-old relative lied about his age and ran off to join Lincoln's Army. War is not our nation's finest service, but being prepared to do what you are called upon to do, in war or peace, is.
BlueOregon Vets, sound off!
T.A. Barnhart, USAF 1975-79
David Barnhart (father), USA 1952-53(?)
Jesse Barnhart (grandfather), USMC 192? - Nicaragua
Alex Newman-Barnhart (son), Oregon NG, 2007- ; scheduled to deploy to Iraq 2010
Jesse Newman-Barnhart (son), USCG, 2008 - ; reporting to USCGc Midgett, Nov 2008
(and let me add, i am equally as proud of my parents' service as teachers)
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Nov 11, '08
Kennedy military record? failed invasion and escalation? Brink of nuclear war? Occupation?
Reminds me of W.
Nov 11, '08
Kennedy military record? failed invasion and escalation? Brink of nuclear war? Occupation?
Reminds me of W.
Nov 11, '08
but in all seriousness
thanks to all vets!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 11, '08
but in all seriousness
thanks to all vets!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 11, '08
He is obviously talking about actual service in uniform by which standard Kennedy performed with distinction.
3:45 p.m.
Nov 11, '08
When my dad was fifteen, he stole his older brother's birth certificate and joined the Marines. (There's no way they thought he was 18--I've seen pictures.)He was on the way to China when WWII ended. He eventually wound up serving in Korea.
Here's an interesting thing, though. He joined the Marines because his dad served in WWI. But I didn't join the military in some measure because of Dad. He was never less than proud of his service and the Marine Corps, but he wanted me to go to college instead.
We do all have complex paths, and very often, our reasons for joining or not joining were informed by those who did, or didn't. I'm with TA, though--service to country is to be honored, even when we don't agree with the direction our country is headed.
Nov 11, '08
Isn't the motivation to join the military a lot like the motivation to enter politics? People lump all the members of the organization together, even if their logic is diametrically opposed.
All primates join military brigades. Jane Goodall's research indicates that the fact of joining and rank in battle is one of the most powerful social factors in the chimp and most likely human line.
Some people go into politics for popularity and power. Some people are motivated to make the world better. Likewise, some join the military for very primate reasons, while others are using their logic to engage in a behavior they find personally repugnant, but required for the preservation of national security.
In a sense, the chest thumpers are right, that the liberals don't get it as they see it. If you're not there for blood and guts, you're soft. But the opposite is true as well, and if you look at the right's rhetoric, it fits much closer with the left's motivation.
At the end of the day it's hard to respect an argument for bestiality. It's like a drunkard arguing that guzzling the communion chalice and getting a buzz is an intended part of the sacrament. It's bestial to regard war with pride. Civilizations regard it as a necessary evil. Emphasis on evil.
5:09 p.m.
Nov 11, '08
My dad, Larry Sargent, served in Vietnam with the Army in the late 60's. He was a sergeant -- that's "Sergeant Sargent" to you -- and came home in one piece but pretty much tried to forget about it for the rest of his life.
In the mid-80's, he started to have circulation problems, which turned into lung problems and all kinds of systemic health issues. He died when he was 54 from illnesses that the federal government acknowledged were caused at least in part by his exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam.
6:38 p.m.
Nov 11, '08
Jennifer, i'm sorry for you loss, for what happened to your dad because he served his country. it's the dark side of this story. it's what i fear for my son in the NG.
i wish you peace.
Nov 11, '08
Proud little annoying sister of Brian James Whetstine; served in Army starting with ROTC, then as an operative for the NSA in SerboCroatia and back in the US in Maryland; USCG heavy ocean search and rescue; warbird enthusiast and aviation writer; taught NBC warfare; died in airshow crash too young. High colour pain in the ass: a Whetstine thru and thru.
Proud little smitten girl cousin of Dean Martin Whetstine, career naval intelligence, Commander. Sworddancer trained classically in Japan. And a Blue voter after all that. Ran the listening stations off of Japan and wired the Dayton talks. Grey soldier.
Worried Auntie to one young Cherokee nephew who, the last time I spoke to him ran out a breathless, cloudy-eyed belief system that in the family he was the one destined to be the sacrifice for the family. That plus zero opportunity = a determination to enlist. No updates since.
SO there you have it: two in my family who are educated enrollees, officers, career men who were colorful and interesting; and the sad picture of my sweet Cherokee nephew who has no idea in his mind but that one in the family must go, it is his job to be the sacrifice. And there is no other path or ideation being offered him.
I have never been even remotely a supporter of the military as a functional mass given my jaundiced view of the intensity of manipulation that goes into recruiting as well as the evidence of the slaying of so many of my relations on the res. But I've been to war in my own ways, share PTSD with them. And respect every last one of them, even the ones who sneer at me as someone who would not do what was needed. They do not have to understand the wars I fight at bodily harm or risk as well, for me to share the knowledge of the fight, and to respect them for doing that extra that they do. Having been under blow-over fire conditions, urban ghetto ground zero life, at direct and immanent risk of my life, and fought on, I respect even further what these men and women do.
Their reasons do not matter.
Their pain and their pride do.
And the facts are: if the war WAS required to be fought, each must ask onself, will you, would you go? Never mind that senator's son you are so jealous of, his lack of moral fiber.
YOU - if it is necessary, WILL you go?
The tribes faced it. WE may still yet.
Nov 11, '08
sorry - "slaying of relations on rez" relates to poverty and how many impoverished people are forced to make such choices as their only choices. Add to this the fact that there is this honor thing, this warrior thing that still rules more than you can imagine. I have a number of buddies, full bloods who were in vietnam... and they were disproportionately put out on patrol, LURPS I guess they were called... b/c everyhone believed in that "scout" thing... and they had to do it, they had to step up as part of their cultural thing -- the community calls you forward to do it,and so you must step up.
I honor my good friend Alex for that. And for coming home and Sundancing for his healing. For keeping on with life. And for the work he now does with little children, and battling meth where it lives as a protective services worker. Picture a big, six foot plus tall Cheyenne guy, kinda mean looking, even: holding a little baby tenderly in a warzone setting. That's my friend Alex on the job.
Nov 11, '08
The last two posts (assuming there isn't one while I write this) illustrate the importance in separating motivations for enlistment from absolute behavior, imho. Can we agree that the Reagan legacy that says that if minorities and disadvantaged groups want any kind of government aided opportunity and education, they can enlist in the military, is poor social policy?
It's sadly reminiscent of the Catholic Church encouraging Irish birthrates with the "help" that the overburdened family could send the youngest son to the Church. Of course, Ireland didn't need that many priests, so they were exported everywhere. Very convenient. Very bad social policy. Anything difficult should be a choice. The public get better quality enlistees as well.
Nov 11, '08
Proud member of Veterans for Peace after 12 years service (8 active, 4 reserve). VeteransforPeace.Org
Nov 11, '08
Z: this is talked about all the time. Are you new, or simply disingenuous?
Nov 11, '08
never mind z: i was engaging in shithead bloggeristical behaviour. A lapse. Yes, yes and yes. And this is often discussed up here, tho usually with bellicose assholes on either side of the equation raging while a profound discussion imbued with compassion and wisdom about life and life's chances, is buried in the noise.
It is why I keep wanting to move MINE to a teahouse somewhere. For the nuance and taste of it. To be decent and be treated with decency. Even as we drill past comfort and pleasure zones towards a different reality.
Nov 11, '08
Neither?
At least I cleared the italics.
Nov 12, '08
US Army Imperial Air Corp 1967-1970 334th AHC (Attack Helicopter Company) Bien Hoa, RVN 68-69
Enlist or get drafted.
As the final insult to veterans by this administration, Dick "5 deferments" Cheney did the honors at Arlington.
President Emeritus Veterans For Peace Chapter 72 www.vfpchapter72.org
9:00 a.m.
Nov 12, '08
Jennifer, i'm sorry for your loss, for what happened to your dad because he served his country. it's the dark side of this story. it's what i fear for my son in the NG.
Thanks, T.A. I hope your son gets good health care. If he stays aware of his risks, he will likely be healthy. My dad went untreated during 20 years of symptoms, and who knows what might have happened if they had known what to look for.
I'm happy to see progressives reclaiming our position as pro-troops, pro-veteran and patriotic. Though we may not agree with a lot of military decisions that are made at the upper levels, I am happy to see a lot of progressive pals expressing a real admiration and gratitude for people who sign up to serve and put their lives at risk. I am happy that I had other options in life -- because I wouldn't last a week in the military.
Nov 12, '08
Sgt. USAF 1980-85 Okinawa, JP California Nebraska
Nov 12, '08
14 yrs 4 mo and 28 days US Army 12 yrs in California National Guard. 3 yrs 2 mo in Japan 3 yrs in Germany 13 mo in Korea retired MSgt (E8)
My oldest daughter spent 3 years in the 5th Inf Div at Ft Polk, LA and my two sons had their tour of duty in the US Navy.
Registered Democrat and I have voted in every presidential election since I turned 21. (I'm 79) Although I did vote for Nixon in '60. Sorry about that.
Nov 13, '08
Ben Hamar Army Nat Guard 1988-1994, 1997-2000 Neil Hamar Air Force 1951-1952 Norman Maxwell (half-bro) Army 1971-1973, Nat Guard 1980-1990 David Miller (step-father) Marines 1949-1953
With the new GI Bill, passed by Jim Webb and the Dems, opposed by Cheney and McCain, we'll be seeing more vets who vote Democratic.
Nov 17, '08
Wow!
Someone else voted for Nixon in 1960, that was my first time voting and I screwed up. Never again.
US Army 1958-1961 Red Canyon Nike tech.
<h2>Both kids did 4 years each.</h2>