Nothing I love more than the politics of personal destruction. Can't win on the facts, destroy the person. Sad.

Long time reader, first time commenter - I am sickened. What is even your point Kari?

While I abhor the actions of threatening others, everyone has their demons and problems, with that being said what have you dedicated your life to, without expectation of being compensated, to take on an issue that the legislature doesn't have the balls to?

I too grew up in LO and knew the family through my church and held Lisa when she was less than a month old. I took it hard when she was killed and support Steve in his endevors to help ensure that victims have the rights that the blue folks in Oregon are notorious for making sure that the accused and guilty are all treated like they are living at moms house when they are in prison instead of being actually treated like criminals!

Right, I saw that. Still, what is your point? Clearly its an issue of personal vengeance. You just stumbled upon these records Kari? I dont know Steve but this seems like a sick and unncessary stunt. I guess my question should have been - what are you hoping to accomplish by publicly airing this mans dirty laundry?

[Off-topic comment about absentee voting deleted. -editor.]

I appreciate this post. These are facts that need to get out about a very unstable man. If someone is this prominent in the movement to lock up more criminals, exploring his past is completely fair.

Chris - I don't think "everyone" has these kind of demons in their closet.

What's the matter Kari, run out of any new bleeding heart, flag burning political garbage to post..so now it's straight personal attacks? Always knew you were a bottom feeder but this is a new low...I would expect this trash from Carla (she's still angry and bitter over her lay off from the dscc's payroll) or deadbeat Kevin, but thought you were better than this. Oh wait..this must be your revenge against Steve Doell for his work advocating on behalf of rape victims and calling out your clown of a client, Jeff Merkley, for siding with child rapists over their victims...it's all making sense now..

Yeah, what's the big deal Kari? Everybody knocks around their wife now and then.

I think this is incredibly relevant history and deserves some attention. The point of this post seems clear. How can someone who claims to be the only true represntative of crime victims in the state be credible with such a history of domestic violence? It seems like deep hypocracy.

Steve Doell is an unapolegetic bully about pushing horrific policy premised on the notion that people can't change. The policies Doell pushes are designed to build a criminal justice system built solely on the notion of punishment rather than prevention or rehabilitation. Doell has raked good people over the coals who have disagreed with him and challenged thier legitimacy in the media if they have loved ones in prison for example. Why is it ok for Doell to discredit people for having family members who have made mistakes, but his history is off limits?

What happened to Doell's daughter is tragic. The incident seemed to make an already angry man even angrier but unfortunately the tragedy also made Doell dogmatic if he wasn't already.

Oregon is worse off because of Crime Victims United, not better off. Doell would be a more productive advocate if he actually took some accountability for his history of violence and helped shape a system that balances accountability with rehabilitation. Sadly, Doell wants accountability only for others and not himself.

Frankly, I admire the courage it took for this post to happen. Given how underhanded Doell's tactics are, it is fine time there is a little truth telling about him.

By the way, someone mentioned that Doell's work has been done "without the expectation of compensation." If only that were true. The fact is that Doell and CVU do not play by the rules. His seeming non-profit (which is actually not registered as a non-profit)has historically avoided filing the paperwork that other advocacy groups do so the public can see where their money comes from and hold them accountable. Recently, it has become clear that Doell is connected to the same gravy train Mannix and Sizemore have been on: right-wing, out-of-state money from Loren Parks. Doell is hardly a generous volunteer. But because Doell feels as if he is above the law, we may never know exactly how much money flows through Crime Victims United or from where.

I don't support dragging anyone through the mud, and I do fundamentally think people can change. But when it comes to Doell, he seems merciless and completely void of self-reflection. The credibility and history of someone who pushes such regressive policies on Oregon should be more of an open book.

Unfortunately Kari you are only damaging your own credibility - and hurting Blue O in the process. And while it appears Kaiser isnt unbiased, it is a valid point that Steve spoke on behalf of the Smith campaign and the rape victim who spoke in their ad. You should have just left this alone. Its comes across as mean sprited and dirty - it takes away from any valid criticism you may have of Steve and his organization. I think you should take this down.

Thank you, Kari, for exposing Steve Doell for what he really is- a monster. He, Kevin Mannix, and Josh Marquis, the Clatsop County DA, have been on a crusade to punish and put away many people who do not deserve the severe sentences mandated by the laws this trio advocate. They also are strong advocates for the death penalty and mandatory sentences. Having had a tragedy happen to you does not excuse your behavior to inflict horrors on others. For too many years legislators have been intimidated by Doell and his vengeful group. It's time we all know who this man really is and the harm he is inflicting on many people who don't deserve it.

Munir

[Off-topic comment about absentee voting deleted. -editor.]

Jack, I never ment to imply that everyone has these types of demons but eveyone has something they are not proud of that they would have to explain if they became a public figure. Some are big some are small.

Kari, Measure 57 is another of the legislatures cop-outs after being forced to act on something that would protect those of us who work for a living instead of being bottom feeders. Measure 61 is not the perfect answer but is at least not more of the same touchy feely lets talk about what you did istead of making you pay your debt to society.

The perfect measure in my opinion would include the following: Removal of perks in Prison including removels of TV, internet access and commisary items. Seizure of items owned by sentanced people to pay a daily rate for incarciration (not at the expense of putting wives, children, etc.. out on the street) If they dont own anything of value they are assesed a daily charge to be repaid upon placement back into society.

I would support 57 if it addressed that these people are adults that know better and forced them to pay for their own treatment.

I know this isnt the perfect venue for a 57 vs 61 debate but this is where i come from.

The ironic thing is that his daughter's killer didn't get an early release because of some bleeding heart judge or wimpy parole board. It was because he was convicted by a jury of manslaughter. Mandatory minimums and other dracionian punishments wouldn't have changed this. The DA should have made a stronger case. But I don't see him going after the DAs office. Or juries for that matter.

Fine Kari, write about whatever the hell you want to write about it..it's your blog...but every time you let Richard "everyone deserves a second chance" Gillmore, a.k.a "DAR" post on your blog, i'm donating to the Yes on 61 campaign...shouldn't that guy be making license plates or Jeff Merkley bumper stickers or something? Trolls are one thing, but come on dude, take control..you need to slap an ankle bracelet on that guy..i'm freaked out just reading that bullsh#t..

i get what you're doing here, but i'm not sure it's worth it--it may even backfire--but i wish you luck. also, as a victim of several crimes (two of which were varying degrees of traumatic), i think the idea of "crime victims" as an interest group that needs an advocate is just... wrong: crime is an issue that needs to be addressed systemically at a societal level, and crime vicitims needs and deserve whatever assistance can be provided, but an interest group? no thanks. i'd love to see doell just go away and stop doing dirty work for the conservative security state, but he'll just be replaced by someone else.

Dar and Muir, What i gather from your posts is that you think that when someone breaks the law they should get a sentance that is in relationship to the crime? That makes sence but how is that fair to the victim? While murder should be a mandatory life a property crime is still a crime and an adult knows better.

While that sounds resonable the old adage rings true: Dont do the crime if you cant do the time

Kaiser & WC. I'm surprised by your responses. Don't you think that Doell should be held accountable at some level for his actions and his hypocrisy? Why are you making excuses for him? You both are men, right? Otherwise you'd probably take domestic violence more seriously. He grabbed his wife's neck and threw her against the wall and terrorized her and the kids and several occasions. Is that okay with you?

Speaking of Measures 57 and 61, can anyone point me to some recent polling on these measures? The only reason I'd vote yes on Measure 57 is to prevent Measure 61 from becoming law. Everyone keeps saying that Measure 61 will pass, and that means I should help push Measure 57, but I haven't seen any solid numbers to back up this claim.

Kari, when the trolls make comments, also think about making a tax-deductible contribution to the Partnership for Safety and Justice (formerly Western Prison Project). They are the lead group taking on Steve Doell year-round.

Wow i just looked up the Wetern Prison Project. What a scam to help support the best of society...

From Dave Reinhard's column:

Why was this necessary? Why not simply try to defeat Mannix's minimum-sentences measure? Pollster Lisa Grove had given opponents of the Mannix measure some bracing news. It was all but impossible to defeat the measure: A sample from her briefing:

"Mannix has a fairly easy argument to make: Oregon needs to do more to hold predators accountable and stop revolving door justice, especially as it relates to meth and identify theft. ... We are concerned that voters do not know the current sentence structure for meth and identity theft -- and will be infuriated once they do. ... After voters hear the arguments in favor of the measure, opposition to mandatory minimums drops by seven points .. . We are significantly outgunned in the message department. We are not convinced that it is possible to defeat this initiative. ... [T]he arguments against the initiative are not nearly as effective as reasons to support it. ... To be abundantly clear, many of the messages we are using or want to use run the risk of actually costing us votes."

Thanks for posting that, "For Rulial". I guess I will have to hold my nose and mark my ballot for Measure 57. :(

[Off-topic comment about absentee voting deleted. -editor.]

BlueOregon at it's lowest.

I'm sure all of the people were have not been victimized because of M11 are wishing Doell never got involved.

Your idea and urging to donate per troll posting is middle school.

I guess I have some questions about this story and the law as it relates to it. What about the allegations documented in the restraining orders? In court, were those allegations proven to be true? Did Steve Doell ever receive a conviction based on those allegations?

If, as other person's accounts suggest, this person really has in the past had the kind of rage the allegations in the restraining order claim, what's his behavior and state of mind today? The last example cited in Kari Chisholm's article above, from the Lars Larson Show has a date of 1999... 9 years ago. Isn't there some more recent, available information out there that will confirm whether or not he's changed from the days when those restraining order allegations were made? A lot of changes can sometimes be made over a period of 9 years.

If Steve Doell is still inclined to criminal abuse and hasn't got that under control, the public should be made aware. If on the other hand, he has by some chance turned his life around, resolved his violent tendencies and become a gentle, self sacrificing defender of innocent victims, the public should know the entire story.

I am stunned that conservatives rally to support conservatives who abuse children. The conservative response to news about Matt Wingard -- and now Steve Doell -- abusing children has been, frankly, disgusting. It's the worst form of moral relativism: an act is good if Republicans do it and an act is bad if Democrats do it. They try to paint the abuser as a victim. Shameful.

Personally, I feel that abusing children is wrong, even if -- and I want to be absolutely clear -- even if the abuse is performed by a political ally.

Although I am no Smith fan, this personal attack is clearly motivated by Doell's support of Smith and Kari would rather go Rove than accept the fact that Merkley took no leadership in strengthing property crimes sentences before faced with a popular initiative. Merkley and the leg were REACTIVE to Mannix's measure 61. As Speaker shouldn't he have been PROACTIVE to do something before before the people were fed up with Oregon's 5 Strikes 13 months rule for Identity Theft and burglaries of businesses? Although I want Merkley to win, you hurt the cause Kari "W" Chilsom when you act like Rove with something like this.

I've known Steve Doell for years and years. I've never seen his, what did you call it? oh yes, "hair trigger temper." These 'second hand' reports you speak of, were they from an incident with pro criminal democrat Ginny Burdick? Did he get in her face and tell her how wrong she was? Or was this the time that a good portion of lawmakers on the floor were considering crime legislation on the floor but were partying and drunk on the last night of session? Was it that time he showed his, what was it you called it? hair trigger temper? If, by Oregon democrats lights, crime shouldn't be treated criminally, then why would you even care about Doell's behavior--how many years ago was it? Kari Chisholm's story bears no resemblance to the person I've known for all these years. Would it help if I put it in Barack Obama terms, "That's not the man I know?" See? All better. I'm sure my comment won't make the cut. Gee, why would anyone want to read the comment from the-talk-show-host-who-knows-Steve-Doell?

Typical Blue O -- if Doell were a left wing activist, his anger would be cast as "rage" against the "injustice" of the system, and his personal problems cast as a tragic price paid by the brave warrior. Look at how such angry drunkards as Randy Leonard, Bob Filner and Ted Kennedy are given a pass.

Wow, obviously Kari doesn't know the first thing about the standard for obtaining a restraining order. Those were allegations of abuse, doesn't mean they were true. Remember, there are always two sides to every story - unless, I guess, you are talking about a Republican (remember allegations about Kulongoski covering up Goldschmidt's crimes?)

I know Doell, and he has never exhibited any sort of anger or menacing towards me or in my presence at all. Kari, you say you have "first hand" knowledge, well, what is it? Third-hand knowledge? C'mon, this is nothing but a personal destruction piece.

Question: I wonder if Kari is doing work for the No on 61 committee?

By all reports, second-hand and first-hand, he flies off the handle pretty quickly - and people have been afraid of their personal safety in his presence.

I don't think this is true, just by reading the comments here. Surely some of the "reports" in this section suggest otherwise, so for you to claim that "By all reports" Doell flies off the handle pretty quickly is simply untrue.

What are you basing your conclusion on? What first-hand experience do YOU have Kari where Doell flew off the handle pretty quickly? You don't cite any FIRST HAND experience on your part where you witnessed Doell flying off the handle.

Accordingly, by your own measure, you should never have run with this story.

But that isn't the point, of course. You just want to take after Doell, facts be damned.

Kari, the comments about Doell are unfair, and looks like a desperate attempt by you to help defeat M61. I will not vote for M61, but not because of this article. Reasons for not voting for M61 would have been a better choice for your post if that was your intent. We have all written things we regret some. You should not have reconsidered writing this. You were right the first time.

PS.....thank you for your donations to M57.

Yeah, Steve Doell was only ACCUSED of beating up his wife and kids. Unlike Republican State Rep candidate Matt Wingard who was actually CONVICTED of beating up his child.

This is not your father's Republican party...

My back door was kicked in and my home ransacked in November of 2006. Despite that, I just voted NO on BOTH 57 and 61. I don't think we can afford either of them.

We were living in Lake Oswego at the time of Lisa Doell's murder. In fact, we lived in the same neighborhood as the young man and his parents. It was a great tragedy all around: his father died of a massive heart attack soon after and his mother's life was ruined. But the sympathy for the Doell family was overwhelming, and one made understanding allowances for the father's reaction and even thought him a hero for a long while. I had forgotten about Steve Doell for a long time and didn't even realize he was still active, and I did not know of his relationship with his ex-wife. So I am grateful for you putting this in perspective. Tomorrow night we are having a Human Dignity Coalition meeting in Central Oregon to discuss 4 ballot measures including 57 and 61 on which I am voting the opposite of what Mr. Doell suggests. An endless cycle of revenge will never solve anything.

First Kari said:

"By all reports, second-hand and first-hand, he flies off the handle pretty quickly - and people have been afraid of their personal safety in his presence.

Then Kari said:

"I have no first-hand experience. As I wrote in the post, I have heard from several people who themselves have first-hand experience with Steve Doell's quick temper.

Which is it Kari? When were you lying, in your first post when you tried to justify running with this weak attempt at character assasination or are you lying in your second post, where you are clearly backtracking because you realize your are completely and utterly wrong about Steve and you are likely defaming him with this stupid article.

Kari, you got caught in a lie, face it dude.

Kari said:

"Now, let me be clear: A quick temper, by itself, isn't even worth talking about. To me, it's the allegations of physical abuse that are the issue here.

Now wait a minute Kari, you said in your first comment that the only reason you wrote this libelous article is because:

"If I saw any evidence that Steve Doell had mellowed over time, I'd leave it alone. But he hasn't. By all reports, second-hand and first-hand, he flies off the handle pretty quickly - and people have been afraid of their personal safety in his presence."

So obviously your baseless allegations of Steve's alleged "quick temper" was and is the reason you wrote this piece of garbage.

At least you now admit the abuse is merely an allegation, good to see you are growing up and becoming an adult.

I will take your challenge, Kari. I have no problem speaking up for one of my best friends, Steve Doell. I have known Steve for the better part of 8 years, and I know him as one of the most tacile people you will ever meet. Your characterization of Steve is completely off-base and is in no way an accurate reflection of Steve.

To be frank, this is nothing more than a smear piece against Steve, devoid of any objectivity. Although I rarely agree with anything written on BlueOregon, the overwhelming majority of the articles written here are well-researched an accurate. This article falls well short of BO's standard and I think is an embarrassment to the rest of your contributors.

Had you done your homework, you would know that Doell's "activism" occupies about 20% of the time that Doell VOLUNTEERS for Crime Victims United. What does Doell do with the other 80%? I bet you don't know cause you haven't asked him.

Well, let me tell you. Doell goes to courthouses, meets with victims of crime, consoles them, holds their hand, prays with them, and helps them get through an incredibly difficult time in their lives. Why didn't you post any of that in your article. Did you talk to any crime victims to see if they think Steve has a "quick trigger". I think we all know the answer to that question.

Steve does all of this, AS A VOLUNTEER. There is no quesiton that Steve performs a valuable service to our community, just ask someone that Steve has helped. And what kind of thanks does he get?

Garbage like this.

I haven't known Steve for very long, but I have always found him to be an informed and passionate advocate for crime victims. He's a pretty good guy to have a beer with too.

He and I don't agree on every issue (for example: Yes on 57, No on 61!), but he has been an important, effective and thoughtful voice in standing up for crime victims across the state.

This is a guy that cares a lot about the people he's fighting for. It's too bad more people aren't like him.

Kari-

Good catch. I knew I forgot something. Here is what I can disclose. I personally represent both Steve Doell and Crime Victims United, yes. Thanks for reminding me to disclose that. Like I said, when I was writing my comment, I knew I was forgetting something......

As far as our "paid relationship" is concerned, I am not allowed to disclose the relationship as it is confidential attorney-client information. I hope you understand.

Finally, by "personally represent", I mean that I, and not the Oregonians In Action Legal Center, represent Mr. Doell and Crime Victims United in various matters.

Again, sorry about that.

Oh yeah, one more thing....and I am sorry to get all lawyer on you and everything....but I am AN attorney for Steve Doell and Crime Victims United, not THE attorney. Both Steve and Crime Victims United have other attorneys working for them.

Okay Kari, as usual, here I am under my real name.

As you have graciously previously pointed out Kari, my Blue credentials are long-time. I was a 1996 superdelegate to the Chicago Democratic Convention. I have campaigned for Democratic candidates local, state, and national for decades. I was personally responsible for gathering DAs for Kulongiski in both the 2002 and 2006 races. I am one of only 4 DAs supporting Merkely, I've been a early supporter of Kate Brown (and am so listed on her website) and I've been very active in my very local county Democratic Central Committee.

That being said I'll speak up for Steve Doell.

He and I don't always agree and in fact right now we are having very little communication because he is on the other side from me in the Presidential and Senatorial campaigns and I'm campaigning for 57 and he's campaigning for 61.

Steve Doeel is very passionate about his issues. I've never had a child murdered so although I deal with a lot of crime victims I learned a long time ago not to say things like "I know what you're going through...." because although I might have some idea, I really don't know.

People with a longer memory should reflect on the time 20 years ago when victims were forbidden to speak at sentencing (Yes, that's right a rape victim was told to shut up by a judge if she tried to speak at her attacker's sentencing). Prosecutors were under no obligation to consult with victims or even tell them when the court hearings were scheduled.

Because of a whole list of measures which passed handily and withstood legal attack, victims now have those rights, in no small part to Steve Doell and his passionate advocacy.

To bring up allegations that didn't even result in a criminal conviction from a decade ago and an even more ridiculosu claim by Arwen Bird, who was "threatened" because Steve actually wanted her to LOOK at a photo of his murdered daughter, is frankly absurd and beneath BO.

Everyone does things they are not proud of and I know with absolute confidence that if anyone rmmages around long enough in anyone in public life's garbage you can come up with some wild allegations. According to some local blogs I sacrifice children to Satan for my special powers. One poster here even has me linked with Kevin Mannix, whom I have NEVER supported in any of his many bids for political office.

Let's move the discussion on.

To me, a history of domestic violence matters.

I am a survivor of sexual assault and I have been a victim advocate for over a decade. Do I believe in victims' rights? Absolutely. I have worked tirelessly to make sure that victims have accurate and timely information, notification, and resources and the right to be heard in the criminal and juvenile justice systems. I have worked tirelessly to make sure that victims receive comprehensive assistance through community-based services. I have worked closely with countless victims, providing crisis intervention and support. And I have worked to develop public education campaigns so the general public can understand why victimization issues are important for us all to understand.

Obviously, a lot more public education has to be done. Domestic violence is about a cycle of control and power. Domestic abusers can be the nicest people in the world -- to everyone except their victims. Just think of watching news reports of any high-profile DV case; almost all will have clips of the abuser's friends and neighbors saying, "He's such a nice guy...I never thought he could do anything like that..."

As someone who passionately believes in -- and tirelessly works for -- crime victims' rights and assistance, it makes me question whether Steve Doelle's political actions will actually help crime victims or if they'll just feed into a cycle of power and control.

I stand corrected. Doell's alleged conduct with his ex-wife was 20 years ago, not 10. I was listening to that Lars Larson program that day and Steve was not screaming, and yes even though you may discount him Lars was physically present when Steve did the dreadful act of asking Arwen (who uses her own victimhood as a sword) to look upon a photo of his beautiful daughter in life. If Arwen can't handle that then she shouldn't be involved in public discourse. So two of the three people in the room contradict Arwen's version of events and I think the actual interview is on tape somewhere. In any event, listen to how incredibly LAME this is. A man is upset because his 12-year-old daughter is murdered?

“OK, for every troll that shows up here ranting away about my personal motivations, rather than the topic at hand, I'll be making a donation to the Better Way to Fight Crime (Yes on 57, No on 61) campaign.”

That’s the point Kari – these campaigns should be argued on their merits, not the personal motivations or shortcomings of their advocates or opponents. To do otherwise smacks of the politics of personal destruction.

It's obvious Kari has lost the ability to recognize or aknowledge what it means to cross the line. Even when it's a far crossing and highlighted by a fellow Democrats of enormous stature, Josh Marquis.

Instead of taking the advice and appologizing, Kari appears to be quite comfortable having Carla push this vicious thread even further.

Next time BO is highlighting some perceived neo-con smearing merchanting this thread can serve as the poster child for such tactics.

This is too long and I am sorry for that.

I have known Steve Doell for many, many years. Steve and I have agreed and disagreed on many occasions. I have never felt anything but respect for him on a professional level. With all of our disagreements I consider him a friend and ally for our workers.

My experiences with the Doell family started with a hearing on violent crime and juvenile justice policies. For those of you who may not recall, his daughter, Lisa was run down on her way home from school by a juvenile driver because he wanted to see what it would be like to kill someone. This individual served about 18 months in the criminal justice system because of his age and was then released, free and clear.

Steve and his remaining family were witnesses in a hearing about the issues of his daughter's death, murder and juvenile justice policies. He shared stories about his son's challenges and what losing his sister meant to him. Lisa was more than just a sister; she was his link to the world. As a mentally challenged child the loss was more than devastating, it was life altering. I was so moved by the family's horrific tale that I had to leave the hearing room to regain composure. After knowing Steve for a while I finally had the courage to ask him how he ever got through this. Steve's answer was a profound, "you just get through it". He turned his energy and frustration into legislative advocacy for others facing traumatic losses and victimization.

As a mother, a woman and a veteran legislative advocate I work with varied groups, Partnership for Safey and Justice (Western Prison Project)as well as Victims Rights and Kevin Mannix. In my work with Steve I have seen him upset and even angry. But I have never seen him out of control or felt threatened by his disagreements with me. I have felt more threatened, personally and professionally by other Colleagues over disagreements than I ever have with Steve.

I have had lunch and dinner with Steve and when I ran my unsuccessful campaign for House District 46 Steve walked door to door with me, alone just the two of us. I found him to be knowledgeable, engaging and charming. I have witnessed him as kind and supportive of the victims who come to him for help working through their own nightmares. He goes to court with them, helps them with their victim's impact statements and makes sure their voices are heard. He works hard for the issues that move him to action.

When reasonable legislative alternatives were suggested to BM 11, mandatory minimums for violent crimes, he was not only supportive he helped get the votes for passage of the changes. He has been a strong advocate for better staffing in the prisons, more programs and better treatment. I know I worked with him AND the Western Prison Project, side by side.

I respect everyone's rights to an opinion, even a jaded view of the world of criminal justice. But right is right and fair is fair. Steve is a passionate supporter of victims who for decades had little or no voice in the capitol. I remember the days when the inmates had more access to budget information than the officers and staff who worked in the system. Inmates were treated as honored guests(supervised and transported on state time by Corrections Officers) invited by some legislators to introduce bills and testify on issues and budgets while the victims and families were left in the dark.

Before, Steve Doell there was Bob and Dee Dee Kouns, together they changed this dynamic and gave victims and their families a voice in the legislature. Not everyone appreciates their input that is clear, but like all of you, they have a right to a voice too.

For the record, our Union is working hard with PSJ for BM 57 and against BM 61. Myself personally, I will be supporting BM 57 and opposing BM 61. Another one of those things Steve and I disagree on.

Carla, I never said or suggested Kari assigned you the task.

He does however appear comfortable that you are doing so on your own.
Just as you appear comfortable pushing this smearing even further. Which is exactly what a vast majority of folks, across the political spectrum, who know Mr. Doell recognize this thread to be.

Any additional excuses you may offer will fall into the same category.

Politics at its very worst.

No wonder the best and brightest in this country avoid politics like the plague.

Nice work, Kari. Keep that Democratic Party money comin' in.

Great article. It's also important to note that Crime Victims United is a sham "group" because it's not a group at all. It is fake "group" formed for the sole purpose of giving Doell more power than he would have if he was perceived as just one person talking. The "group" has no real members. And who funds the "group?" Doell won't say (or he lies and says the "members" of the "group" fund it) but it is suspected that right wing freaks such as Loreen Parks give all the money. And what is the money used for? Doell's salary.

Carla, You've already displayed your particular sense of judgement so your perception of the very fine Oregonian Steve Doell follows that sense. Of course YOU "highly doubt" that most people know Doell to be the exemplary person he is. That's why you can't recognize this smearing that crosses the line.

Does this mean you are simply delusional? I have no idea. You could be just mean and nasty. But this thread and crossing the line isn't about your first hand experiences now is it?

You should let this one go Carla. I see Kari has it just about moved from the BO front page anyway.
Smart move.

Ms. Prescott-

I believe you need to check your "facts". Mr. Doell does not receive a salary from Crime Victims United (or any other group that I am aware of).

Be careful next time to keep your rants factual, at least.

Mr. Day-

This would be a fine time for Mr. Doell to provide VERIFIABLE information about the following:

How many members does Crime Victims United have? What is the source of the "groups" funding? How much money does Mr. Doell receive from the "group" every year?

I understand you cannot release this information because of attorney/client confidentiality reasons but there is no good reason for Mr. Doell to withhold such information. Of course there are reasons Mr. Doell has continued to keep this information secret. As previously stated, the "group" is not a group, but is a front to allow Mr. Doell to advocate his individual causes. The "group" is funded primarily by right wing fanatics that are far out of touch with typical Oregonians. And Mr. Doell makes his living off of money from this "group" (even if you call the income he receives something other then salary).

If this piece isn't out of line than there is no such thing. It is of course out of line and your scrambling to have it judged otherwise will fall way short. Your inner circle of pretenders coming to your aid in the face of the desereved condemnation will also fail. There's no diminishing this despicable peice.

You are wrong and out of line.

And I'll wager Kari is getting private heat that far exceeds what is appearing on this blog.

Ms. Prescott:

As previously stated, the "group" is not a group, but is a front to allow Mr. Doell to advocate his individual causes. The "group" is funded primarily by right wing fanatics that are far out of touch with typical Oregonians. And Mr. Doell makes his living off of money from this "group" (even if you call the income he receives something other then salary).

Where do you get your information? How do you know there is no "group", do you have information to that effect, or are you one those people who believe that if you demand information, and Mr. Doell (or anyone) doesn't provide it, then your conclusions must be true. Pretty weak, to be sure.

I can think of a number of reasons why Mr. Doell has not, and will not, release any of the information you demand. Not the least of which is that it is none of your business.

I will tell you what, as far as the "funding" issue is burning in your loins, as soon as 1000 Friends of Oregon, Ecumencial Ministries, the Western Prison Project, the Humane Society of Oregon, and all these other 501(c)(4) groups open their books to reveal who is funding them, CVU will open their books. Until then, no dice.

Just in case you are wondering, those groups would never reveal their funding sources either.....perhaps they, too, are funded by right wing fanatics who are out of touch with Oregon.

Your baseless allegations are exactly that, baseless. Don't go making claims unless you have the facts to back them up, and are willing to share those facts with the rest of us.

Good work, Kari....the Republicans and their fellow-travelers are crawling out of the mud to defend one of their minions.

Now if they tell Gordon Smith to come up out of the sewer, then we'll see if they really mean it, or are just mealy-mouthed, hypersensitive flip-floppers like REPUBLICAN, JUST LIKE GEORGE W. BUSH Gordon Smith.

Kari said:

I am merely asking whether Steve Doell is an appropriate spokesperson for crime victims, given his personal history.

But Kari, you are missing the point (and why most of the commenters here are questioning the intent of this article): WHAT PERSONAL HISTORY?

Your article brings up two allegations. First, you parade out allegations made 19 years ago by Steve's estranged wife. Keep in mind the allegations were made in the context of a divorce, and the allegations were NOT made under oath. The veracity of those allegations are questionable, at best.

I would like to think that if there were any truth to the allegations, the police would have been involved and criminal charges would have been filed. The fact that no charges were filed (by the way, the abused spouse doesn't have to press charges, the police can do that on their own) against Steve suggests to me that these allegations are exaggerated, to say the least.

Second, you pass on "first and second hand" accounts of Mr. Doell's anger. There are 75 comments in response to this post, 31 (by my count) defend Doell in some way, shape or form. That is strong evidence to suggest Mr. Doell does not have an anger problem, as you suggest. The fact that so many people are willing to come on this site, post comments under their real names, in defense of Steve (as opposed to you "first and second hand accounts") is stronger evidence than your second and third-hand hearsay.

To be sure, this article looks more like mudslinging than anything else.

In journalism, you have to find more than one source for an allegation,

Nice to have Jeff Alworth pop in with his usual BlueOregon apologizing. That is you main job at BO, right, kari's apologist?

Jeff, when it served your purposes you personally have argued that BlueOregon is not journalism and does attempt to be.

When it serves another purpose, you argue that it is journalism.

Your only guiding principle appears to be trying to clean up the messes Kari makes in his role as paid political operative.

Let me clear something up for you and help you get started: Political hit pieces by paid professional political operatives on a partisan political blog are not in anyway related to actual journalism.

This might look like a hatchet job, and I can see why Steve's friends are upset or even furious, but, as with other public figures like Neil Goldschmidt, this kind of legal information is relevant. I know fans of Neil G. who were upset that his past sex crime was revealed, but in reemerging as a public figure in the PGE buyout and as an appointee on the board of education, his past crime became news that the public had the right to know. Likewise, as long as Steve Doell is an active and public force in OR on crime issues, his past legal record is relevant.

The point of this blog piece was smear of the worst kind, period.

Aaron V above doesn't read so well or he would see more than Republicans have crawled out defend Doell.

Read the thread again Aaron. If you can't recognize
a democrat stallworths such as Josh Marquis then perhaps you are blogging above your pay grade.

Carla, You may have had a single unpleasant contact with Mr. Doell and choose to pile on the smear but a smear it is.

And from my point of view this seems to be a pattern with you in particular. I've veiwed much of your work here as inappropriate. But I am a troll, this is a left wing political blog and I am not smearing your life over it either.

Please allow me to expound for a minute on the statement that Steve Doell is “not a nice man”. I am proud to represent and label myself as a “bleeding heart liberal”. It’s the way I define my life, the way I view the world, the way I vote. But I happen to be a bleeding heart liberal whose eight children were brutally raped. That sort of event and trauma tends to change your view of certain things--namely my position on crime and criminals.

I have dedicated my entire adult life to children. My husband and I gave birth to three and adopted ten.Our eight youngest are vulnerable and fragile--all born with multiple medical, emotional, cognitive, and behavioral special needs due to parental substance abuse. When those children were between the ages of 6 and 12, they were raped by a monster. Is this my “side of the story”? No, it is not. Ryan Douglas Smith was convicted in 1999 in Jackson County of 12 crimes against our children including multiple counts of Rape 1 and Sodomy 1. Smith is serving 10 years at the Oregon Youth Authority. He will be released June 1, 2009.

Mr. Smith and his attorneys, however, were busy. His case came before the Oregon Appellate Court where it was unanimously affirmed (the convictions upheld, in other words) in 2002. The case was rejected by the Oregon Supreme Court in 2004. By this time, Smith was turning 21 and our children were terrified at the thought of him returning to our hometown, Ashland. We were relieved to learn that because of Steve Doell's diligent work with Crime Victims United, violent juvenile offenders can now be held until the age of 25. We looked forward to four more years of safety. This was the first inkling we had of the impact this organization and this man would have on our lives.

In late 2005, Smith chose to move forward with an action called Post Conviction Relief. I've since learned that Oregon is one of few states where this action is quite liberally applied but is rarely successful. The process does succeed, however, in re-victimizing and re-traumatizing the victims of violent crime. Smith, you see, subpoenaed 12 of our family members to be deposed (as witnesses for his defense!!) and to re-examine these abuses. Yes, you read that sentence correctly. The depositions were ordered to take place in his attorneys' offices without a judge present and with no support for our children. A judge actually admonished us that we needed to be mindful of Smith’s constitutional rights. Can any of your readers imagine just what a nightmarish experience this would be for a disabled rape victim eight years after the crime? I can personally attest to the ever present pain and agony our family was subjected to as we attempted to protect our children. Nothing we did could prevent this action. Oregon laws would not protect us. We had to endure the gut-wrenching pain of watching three children spiral out of control and attempt suicide.

From the very day we were subpoenaed, Steve Doell stood by our family. He tirelessly researched our case and advocated for us. He helped us work with the media coverage and tenderly listened when we cracked under the pressure. He analyzed the lack of statutory protections that allowed this travesty and developed a plan of action. He went on to write a proposal for new legislation and worked with a number of legislators from both parties and the Attorney General’s office to protect crime victims from the re-victimization of testifying in Post Conviction Relief Trials which often occur years after the original crime. I am proud to say that the “Linsday Bill” was written into law by Governor Kulongoski in June 2007. Because of Steve Doell’s relentless work, no other victim will have to endure the agony of facing the criminal who harmed them in a Post Conviction Relief Trial as we ultimately were forced to do.

Back to the statement that “Steve Doell is not a nice man”. I’ve read the comments on this page with an open mind and deep interest. I’ve grimaced as some revelations have troubled me. I’ve also smiled as I recognize the Steve I know. There’s no doubt in my mind that Steve is a complex man. He can can be bold and intense. He can be driven and outspoken. I’ve seen the man in action. But I've also seen tears form in the man's eyes as he reads yet another victim's impact statement. I have witnessed unending respect and kindness to victims who are hurting and the families who love them. I do not question or deny that Steve Doell has been furious, out-spoken, and yes, probably rude at times. The subject of crime can do that to people. I should know. I also cannot minimize or rationalize the charges brought against him years ago. But several men whom I hold in high esteem suffer from similar ugly blots on their resumes. Senator Kennedy, Professor Ayers, and Dr. King come to mind. There are legions of others--on both sides of the aisle. I will not forget past transgressions but I also embrace the hard work these men have bequeathed us. I can move forward fully informed.

Let's not forget that fighting crime and cleaning up its mess is gritty, nasty, emotionally draining work. Only a person who has experienced the horror of crime on a highly personal level can speak forcefully enough for those of us who are victims and are buckling under the weight of navigating our confusing and often brutal justice system. Those of us who are victims or who love a victim are not searching for someone “nice” to stand up for us. We’re not ready to be sold on rehabilitation and prevention--not while we’re still bleeding, still grieving. As Steve has counseled me “Crime is crime, call it what it is”.

Steve Doell and Crime Victims United are working to assure that even as we work towards reformation with each offender, we also assure that Oregonians, especially our most vulnerable and precious children, can benefit from the safety we purchase with every single day a criminal stays behind bars. Steve Doell might not always act “nice”. He is a hard-hitting, clear-minded advocate. Remember his name. If you or someone dear to you is wounded by a criminal, you will need his help and he will be there to fight for you.

Shelley Linsday Ashland, OR

TA, its great to see the last of the regulars finally chime in on an inane story (there is no debate here that its a bad story from a person who can do much better)

While i agree that M11 was not the perfect answer it was at least an attempt at a solution. I manage Firefighters every day who make descisions that affect outsomes that can be costly and affect public safety. I will back them everytime they make an educated decision but will not back them if they choose to not to make a desicion. Also to say that the crime rate has not changes is directly in conflict with what the statistics show, to go from the highest person to person crime rate to one that is significantly lower is just proving the point that the argument against M11 is wrong.

The fact here is that we have less money for services due to rising ILLEGAL immigaration putting a burden on Schools, Law enforcement, Fire Services, etc... as well as cost of living increases for public employees, trying to protect everyone from themselves (gambling addiction help, smoking bans). Let people be ADULTS and expect them to take care of themselves. Stop throwing money down the drain through Human services programs that are for made up problems.

People need to be held accountable for their actions and everyone sitting around in a group setting with a bunch of criminals signing songs, holding hands and complaining that they steal becouse they didnt get enough hugs from mommy and daddy is not the best use of public money.

Neither is just locking them up where they get more ideas from roommates on how to be more efficient at crime but at least someone took a stand to make us safer and i know i am grateful for Steve's work

Barnhart says:

"M11. a horrible, stupid, imbecilic piece of law that is bankrupting our state, destroying lives and doing virtually nothing to stop or reduce crime. what it's done is make money for Kevin Mannix, make billions for those who build the prisons, and perpetuate the fear that OMG the bad guys are overwhelming our streets!"

Measure 11 was not supported by me or most DAs in 1994. We were wrong. It's a good law that is color and class blind which is why there is so much hatred towards it. Rich white kids who kill people or rape children (yes, it takes something that serious to get a whole 6 to 10 years in prison) actually get the same sentences that poor people of color were getting before M-11. Check the Department of Corrections statistics page; the racial demographics of M-11 is almost identical to the general prison population. It is the main reason there are thousands fewer victims of violent crime. Oregon saw the largest decrease in violent crime of any state in the nation in the decade after M-11 passed. Those who hate the idea that even rapists deserve to go to prison tried to overturn it with Measure 94 in 2000 and Oregonians defeated the repeal by a 75-25 margin. This thread is about Steve Doell and he had a lot to do with M-11 passing. Americans like real people, not just "experts." I'm an "expert" and I suspect Mr. Barnhart would be unwilling to accept my opinion. The last line is revealing; that we need to be fair to the families of victims and criminals. Okay, compassion is important but I do not put the killer or rapist in a morally equivalent status to their victim. Molesting a child or stabbing someone with a buck knife os not a "stupid mistake," it's a serious crime. I support Measure 57 which has mandatory sentences only for people caught with a POUND or more of cocaine. The idea that "we know better" than those dumb voters who are so easily swayed by a good story is funadmentally very un-democratic and therefore un-Democratic as well.

Shelley, The problems some of us have with Doell and CVU is their attitude that the definition of a crime victim is someone who agrees with them.

If someone was robbed, or hit by a drunk driver, or assaulted, or whatever, did they lose their right to decide their own vote?

Seems to me there was a previous ballot measure election where CVU was in favor and Doell was debating someone on the radio who had beendisabled by a drunk driver and confined to a wheelchair. And that he said something like "real crime victims agree with me!".

I'm the granddaughter of a prosecutor, and once testified in court on a hit and run case. But to those like Mannix and Doell, I'm "soft on crime" if I don't allow them to make my voting decisions for me.

That is why I don't support CVU's agenda unless someone I trust gives me a good reason to do so--I have that right in a free country.

Mr. Day, you said... First, you parade out allegations made 19 years ago by Steve's estranged wife. Keep in mind the allegations were made in the context of a divorce, and the allegations were NOT made under oath. The veracity of those allegations are questionable, at best.

I would like to think that if there were any truth to the allegations, the police would have been involved and criminal charges would have been filed. The fact that no charges were filed (by the way, the abused spouse doesn't have to press charges, the police can do that on their own) against Steve suggests to me that these allegations are exaggerated, to say the least.

First of all let me tell you that when you file a restraining order and go in front of a judge you are under oath. Second they don't always charge the abusive spouse as in this case and many others, mine included. So you are saying that all of us who have been abused by someone must all be lying because there were no charges pressed, that shows me how smart you are. As a crime victim I know first hand how intimidating someone can be when they have a past abuse history. That is how most abusers get their power kicks, from intimidating others. I am a supporter of PSJ and am very against measure 11 because of what it is doing to all the children in this state. I agree that adults should be tried as adultsm but children as young as 15 should not be charged and sent to serve time in an adult prison with hardened criminals. I thank Kari for this article. I found your information very enlightening. Also to let you know others have read this from a third party site and are very interested in what has been said. Thank you for voicing the truth!!.

Mr. Day:

WIth all due respect, please enjoy thinking "what [you] would like to think" as to how the legal process works around DVIS and such.

I suggest you do a little due diligence and get outside your stolid frame of reference: speak to a police officer; speak to a police chief; chat with a judge; then interview a DVIS advocate who helps battered folk (man or woman or child or elder) escape the battering and shepherds them through the process of acquiring an Order if it is able to be done.

THEN, and only then would I consider what you like to think to have much validity. It's rather enlightening to get away from BOTH victims (batterer and the battered)_ and talk to everyone else who has to engage and intercede.

If you can't get out of the victim/victimizer framework, your vision will inevitably be occluded.

In your case, it's just plain uninformed.

Learn about the process. Then come back and offer something to say.

Best regards!

So Ross, just to be clear, as Doell's lawyer, are you saying that Doell did not in fact grab Colleen Doell by the neck, throw her against the wall of the house and choke her with sufficient force to cut off her ability to speak and that her son did not have to jump on his back in order to break his hold on her and that Steve did not then strike her son serveral times in the head...and all the rest, as is alleged above under sworn testimony?

While im sure that no one here is condoning the actions Mr Doell took to get the restraining order against him, but with that in the past make him any less of a victim of a failed system in the present???

I've had the chance to observe and work with Steve Doell on many issues in many different settings over the years -- many fewer years than I've been a Democrat and fewer, too, than the years that I served as a prosecutor -- but our acquaintance still runs to a decade or more. I've never believed him to be insincere or hypocritical about the rights of the victims of crime. Your post does not persuade me otherwise.

I sometimes disagree with Steve. For example, Steve supports Measure 61 but I'll be joining 27 District Attorneys in voting for Measure 57.

This is obviously your blog. And usually a darned good one! But I think you made a mistake. The materials don't accurately describe the passionate advocate that I've observed, nor do they advance the kind of passionate but issue-oriented debate that I hope you intend to foster. It seems to me that self-restraint may be the greatest contribution any of us have the power to make to improving the quality of public discourse about important issues like Measures 61 and 57.

Hal - It's "stalwart", not "stallworth". Stallworth was the Steelers wide receiver from the 1970s and 80s who wasn't a failure as a Republican office-seeker. Thank you for playing.

And do you even know what a fellow-traveler is? If you don't, that's what Joshua Marquis is - a Democrat who ends up with Republicans often - a Joe Lieberman-type.

Mary Botkin who I think has had considerably to do with the fight-back against the abuses sees him as serious and as doing serious political work

Mary Botkin is a lobbyist for a union that represents prison guards. Her union grows when these measures pass, so she's not an unbiased observer.

To answer Kari's question about what source there is for the claim about Oregon's decrease in the violent crime rate I provide this graphic taken from stats from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

http://www.crimevictimsunited.org/measure11/presentation/pdf/states_rates_1995_to_2006.pdf

(And please don't discount this because CVU put it on its website. You can get the exact same data if you go to USDOJ's statistics website.

It's no longer on-line but USAToday ran a graphic on improvements in public health across the country in 2003. They cited the improvements each state made; reduction in teen pregnancy, infant death rate, etc. and interestingly considered reduction in violent crime as a public health issue. They cited Oregon's dramatic drop as our state's most succussful public health accomplishment.

I;m not sure what Chris Lowe means when he identifies me as "not JUST a troll" presumably because I don't hide behind a screen name. And by the way Chris the most hard fought M-11 trials I've prosecuted were with upper-middle class white defendants but that is my experience although other DAs tell me the same thing. We don't have data on the wealth of defendants and their families.

But rather than just attack my statements please look at some of the responses here, and counteless more in other forums, that evidence a number of people who call themselves "progressive" wgo have a deep-seated antipathy towards law enforcement. Maybe they had a bad experience, more likely they feel cops and prosercutors are part of an oppressive, unfair system that - as you claim - doesn't care if the wrong person is sent to prison.

For those of us who work in that profession the claim that we are supporting something like 57 because we will get frequent flyer miles is ridiculous. I have found a core of people who think ANY prison sentence is a profound failure. That every rapist and killer is a human being, often someone who just made a mistake, and that long prison terms are punitive and vindictive. If you look at what actually happens in Oregon's courtrooms with Measure 11 and other sentencing you will get a very different picture.

I write and debate a lot about the justice system, usually not here but either click on my name and you will NOT be taken to BO but to http://coastda.com I'd recommend http://coastda.com/heroes

But I think the question Kari asked has been answered. Steve Doell is a very effective, if sometimes controversial advocate for what he passionately beleives. Again is everyone who criticized him willing to let people look 20 years into their PAST for every allegation, any claim by an ex, a 15-year-old DUII? Would that make them less of a "real" advocate for what they espouse?

Aaron is now calling Democrat Josh Marquis a Joe Lieberman for being honest about Doell? Boy this is some thread.

Perhaps it's time for a thread smearing Josh?

Carla, I've known Steve Doell for years and don't buy your claim of firsthand accounting at all. So your'e right, no amnount of your fabricated first hand experience with Doell will matter to me or anyone who knows him. You're political hackery is evidence of your own anger issues which has you attacking the very decent Mr. Doell.

Carla -

Please tell us what exactly Steve Doell did to you that was so offensive?

Carla, let me rephrase Larry so that it does not sound like someone ready to jump on you for fun if you do respond, slice you up and deepen what may have been a victimization:

Can you tell us enough about what happened to help us understand how it relates to the issues under discussion?

Thanks!

It's becoming crystal clear that Carla has lied about her own allegation. Shameless Carla. But this demonstrates a problem with people willing to smear a good man with false accusation.

Carla's story never happened.

Neither did "Doell lean across the studio console and yelled at her". (Bird) Four witnesses saw that never happened.

Kari smeared that he has "heard second-hand reports of other incidents" and claim Steve Doell is not a nice man"

Also not true and Doell is indeed avery nice and decent Oregonian.

This has been one of the worst and most baseless smearings I'v seen on the local blogs.

Fortunately it was caught and rejected by an impressive cross section of honest people who have known and/or worked with Mr. Doell for years.

200 posts more and this will remain the smear it it.

Now Kari is suggesting something else because Doell himself doesn't wade into Kari's smear?

Kari, I owe you an apology for miss-speaking. I understand you were NOT suggesting that victim's voices should not be heard. I am sorry for writing badly on that point. As to your point of "is Steve the appropriate person with his background?" I don't think we get to pick who the spokesperson for CVU is, they do.

I have not seen much on this thread that convinces me they have chosen badly. Though I am relieved to know there are so many out there with no past sins. I am making a list of them so I know where to go when I am in need of a "without sin" contact. I certainly don't qualify for that category.

Just a couple of other reactions.

The suggestion that if we don't agree with the anti Steve crowd then we must be republicans or trolls is insulting and juvenile. Try going door to door in inner SE or NE Portland where you must be at the least a "d" to get elected and ask about crime. They are off the charts on the issue. So get over yourself, Democrats get victimized and want reasonable justice too. Who passed BM 11? Doell, nope...the voters! Who defeated BM 94? Doell, nope...the voters did it again. Who to blame, who to blame?

"Mary Botkin who I think has had considerably to do with the fight-back against the abuses sees him as serious and as doing serious political work

Mary Botkin is a lobbyist for a union that represents prison guards. Her union grows when these measures pass, so she's not an unbiased observer. Jack Sullivan"

Unbiased because I am a lobbyist? I have never claimed to be anything but biased when it came to these issues or advocating for our members. I do NOT represent prison guards...I represent Corrections Officers and those professionals who provide education, treatment and protection to those in and out of the criminal justice system. Those who would suggest that our Union would ever support a measure like 61 are either ignorant or just too lazy to be informed. We did not support BM 11, did not support or oppose M 94, and are opposing 61 and supporting 57 as a reasonable alternative. Does our membership grow if one of these measures passes? Yes, but not in a responsible manner. The prisons will be understaffed and dangerous for inmates and our members, the programs will be under funded and treatment will be all but non-existent. In our view this is no way to run a prison or a criminal justice system.

Jack, like you, I still get an opinion regardless of where I go to work every day.

Without a huge influx of funds our members will be managing dungeons and where will the funds come from? Human Services and other public safety programs that receive state general funds. Kevin Mannix appeals to the needs of the voters in a purely emotional manner, but never provides a funding source. Mannix promises gold for free and when it turns out to be lead then the folks doing the work get the blame.

Ballot measures and the voters have created a real nice system, NOT!

Good post, Kari. Jack Roberts objection to your use of "very old" restraining orders is ironic considering Doell's throw-away-the-key attitude toward corrections.

Pat: good post. Your point about one appearing as sympathetic, deep, an advocate in one quarter and then a nutbag kneejerk in another quarter could be applied to many of us here.

That's quite the testimony Carla.
Mr. Doell chose to use "inappropriate tactics to track me down"

What, he looked up your listed phone number and called you to discuss something you wrote?

How shocking!!

There was no inappropriate treatment at all.

Only a phone message to a relative, (you weren't home)asking for a return call from you.
You returned the call with a message declining to talk to or meet with Mr. Doell. End of treatment.
You've never even talked with Mr. Doell.

That's trying to "get to you"? Quite a happening.

Now you're telling stories about starting to feel sorry for Hal? And that you're now in a group of "those who've been treated inappropriately by Mr. Doell"

You should feel sorry for attacking Doell.

What a bunch of drivel, generally speaking.

The issues as I see them are simple. Is Steve Doell good at what he does? Seems he is given all the controversy.

Does he rub folks the wrong way? Maybe some, but the victims who have worked with him think he is great and that is who he is representing.

Did he or did he not have a restraining order against him some 20+ years ago? Seems like he did. With no reoccurances this seems like a lame accusation to carry forward to today. But I do agree that if we forgive him then we should forgive all the others who have reformed their wicked ways. Oh, that is what we want, so maybe we should apply our measures fairly.

So how should we vote on these measures? If we vote yes on both we will put a lot of people in prison and spend a lot o money. If we vote Yes on 57 and No on 61 we will put fewer people in prison, but they will get treatment and programs.

Gee I think it is a pretty simple issue before us. I am voting Yes on 57 and No on 61. I don't really give a rip about what Steve or Kevin have to say. Yes...No - that seems like the Right answer to me.

The measure or the man? Ad hominem ad nauseum?

What was the question?

;)...

Hal -- actually, it might be considered inappropriate to contact someone at home who published something in the public domain. I'm a bit new to blabbing.. erm... blogging... but I suspect that the FIRST place one should go to engage a commentator if one is unhappy with the publication is in the public domain.

It's not as threatening, intimate, personal-seeming, and puts things in the daylight. It is also about rules of engagement, I'm thinking, sociologically speaking. If you find it in the blogosphere, you engage it first on those terms. It can be perceived/experienced as escalation to find it in a message left at home or such.

Just thinkin'. It might have been better engaged as a courtly public engagement on the part of this fella. Adding new venues of comms adds layers of tension and perception we may only imperfectly understand yet.

I once had an Oregonian reporter call me at home to challenge a comment I had left on a local blog. I didn't feel intimidated. Was he out of line?

While reading through the early posts I thought, why isn't Doell reporting CVU finances? Then I saw that Kari asked:

"Ross, is Crime Victims United organized as a PAC, a 501c3, or a 501c4? What public documents is the organization required to file? (If I remember, right a 501c3 has to file a Form 990.)"

I'm waiting for the answer. I find no nonprofit record. CVU is not registered as an Oregon PC. Then, Ross Day, a Doell attorney said:

"[As soon as] ...all these other 501(c)(4) groups open their books to reveal who is funding them, CVU will open their books. Until then, no dice."

Is CVU a 501c4 as Ross Day implies? If so, is IRS code being followed? If others are doing wrong, does that make it OK for CVU to violate law? A 501c4 is exempt from paying federal income taxes. Although a 501c4 can lobby, it then becomes ineligible to receive federal monies, such as grants. Donations to non-public entity 501c4's are not tax deductible. A 501c4 earnings may not benefit a private shareholder or individual. Is Doell receiving a paycheck?

It should also be noted that Steve Doell doesn't believe he needs to follow Oregon law either. A political committee he's treasurer of didn't report contributions and expenditures as of 10/13 although it’s required within seven days.

Ironically, Doell received $456,150.00 from CommonSense for Oregon PAC for which none other than Ross Day is treasurer. Ross Day’s contribution to Doell was made possible by a contribution from Kevin Mannix’s Oregon Anti-Crime Alliance PAC. Mannix’s contribution to Ross Day’s PC was made possible by a $500,000 contribution from Loren Parks.

There are readers to this blog who may interpret these transactions as money laundering, the practice of engaging in financial transactions in order to conceal the identity, source, and/or destination of money.

Again Mr. Day, Is Crime Victims United a nonprofit? If all laws are being followed, why not disclose its finances!

Here is my campaign finance reporting complaint filed last week against Doell’s committee at OregonBallot.org.

He should under law be fined the maximum amount of $10,000. I also filed a complaint against both the Ross Day and Kevin Mannix committee since there was a discrepancy over the contribution amount that ended up in Doell’s committee. Again, a Loren Parks contribution to Mannix's committee funded Doell's.

Kari, I agree with the above people that calling people Trolls when they disagree is VERY Junior High

Carla, I heard it said once that the world of blogging has lent itself to give people the ability to be annonamous and not be able to be held directly accountable for their comments. Even though you do identify yourself in this case you have wrongfully given yourself a status that you cant be bothered, except by a means you choose even if your phone number is public record, to be held accountable for your comments and be forced to defend them when called out. This is blatently wrong, except when you are being personnaly threatened. So if you choose to react and speak up you need to be prepared to defend the comments you choose to make, no matter the venue.

That being said I also believe that Hal needs to step up and identify himself

Well, I have to say that the topic is moving toward an interesting matter. Money.

Mr. Delmazzo has done his research and raises an interesting question.

For years, I've tried to determine what kind of entity CVU is and why Mr. Doell doesn't simply register as a lobbyist without breaks in time. I think most people who engage with the legislature err on the side of caution and simply register and remain registered as a lobbyist. BTW, it's not necessarily bad to be a lobbyist. A special person who happens to be a lobbyist is Mary Botkin.

No financial reporting for CVU -- with Oregon or the IRS. That may be legal. I don't know. But it certainly raises the level of intrigue and lack of transparency.

Who lives at 7831 St Charles St NE Salem, OR 97303? Or is it 7831 St Charles St NE in Keizer 97303?? (see below). Ross Day and Steve Doell? Again, I don't know.

Excerpt from Secretary of State's website:

Statement of Organization for Political Action Committee
Committee Information
Name: If you absolutely, positively, one hundred percent want to put felons in prison its mandatory that you vote yes on 61... ID: 13544
Acronym: PAC Type: Measure
Statement Effective From: 10/14/2008 to present Filing Type: Amendment Address: 7831 St Charles St NE Salem, OR 97303 Campaign Phone: (503)502-7572
Treasurer Information
Name: Steve Doell
Mailing Address: 7831 St Charles St NE Keizer, OR 97303 Work Phone: Home Phone: Fax: (503)502-7572

Use 411.com and do a reverse address search. The address is in Keizer

carla first writes: "After my September story on Andy Erwin here at BlueO (that made a small mention of Doell) was published, he attempted to contact me in a very inappropriate way (for which he later apologized through a surrogate). It came across to me as an attempt to intimidate me. I wasn't going to write about it, but given this comment thread I've changed my mind. I know firsthand (and secondhand through friends and acquaintances who've had dealings with him) that Mr. Doell can be very hot-headed and apparently impulsive, at least. "

Wow, when I first read that I thought Mr Doell did something very scary.

Then carla comes clean with exactly what he did: "Yes. To call my home in an unsolicited and uninvited manner and speak with my family is completely inappropriate."

LOL. Carla, you have been caught exaggerating like a total fool.

Doell "intimidated" you?
By calling your public phone number? That you chose to list publicly so that strangers who want to reach you can call there? And actually talking to family members who answered the phone in your absence?

ROTFLMAO!!!

I get "intimidated" 2-3 times a day!!!

Carla you made me laugh out loud when you described your scary momment with Doell.

Can you say "Over-reached!!" on that one?

I'd like to know why Mr. Doell got so upset about the article Carla wrote anyway. It seemed she was just reporting on some unusual facts in regards to a judicial election in Washington County.

No I'm not Doell and not his best friend, but I was able to get a hold of him and get some more details. That's obvious. Details that showed Carla never had any angry contact with him at all. She did refuse to talk with him, over coffee or the phone. So she wasn't mistreated by Doell at all. Ever in any way. Yet she attempted to pile on her false testimony to further smear Mr. Doell.

I don't want my name on here for my own reasons. Many people are anon and I don't see Kari making repeated requests on his blog for their ID.

I suspect Kari knows who I am, but is being ethical and not posting it. Thank you. It's irrelevent anyway.

Bottom line on this thread is Doell is not the angry person suggested and Carla was not being truthful about her first hand experience with Doell. The smearing was out of line.

None of this heated discussion would have occured without the smearing in the first place. There's plenty for us to argue over without the personal attacking smear jobs.

I am a Crime Victims United board member. I have known Steve Doell since 1993 and worked very closely with him since 1999.

From 1999 to 2008, no one has had a closer view of Steve Doell in his role as victims' advocate. Steve Doell has been a tireless and phenomenal advocate for victims and for other law-abiding citizens and has made a huge contribution to all Oregonians - those who were victims of crime and those who were not victims in no small part through his efforts.

Steve's advocacy has ranged from spending hours on the phone with individual victims to making multiple trips around the state supporting victims at hearings and trials to writing letters and op-eds to speaking before students to working on advisory boards to lobbying legislators to coordinating legislative hearing testimony to writing ballot measure arguments to championing ballot measures to sponsoring ballot measures. I know - I have seen it all close up, and I have left a lot out of the list.

I have been with Steve at debates, media events, in courtrooms, in legislative hearings, in committee and workgroup meetings and in many other contexts and have never seen Steve lose his temper.

I have read a lot of nonsense in this thread about Measure 11. There is a lot of cluelessness and/or denial about the relationship between crime and incarceration.

From 1995, when Measure 11 went into effect, through 2002, Oregon led all states in decrease in violent crime rate. From 1995 to 2006, we were second with a total decrease in violent crime of 46 percent. This decrease translates to 68,000 fewer reported Measure 11 crimes over that period with an additional savings of 9,000 per year going forward. I do not claim that Measure 11 was solely responsible for this decrease but I do believe that it made a substantial contribution. You can find more statistics on Measure 11 here.

We asked the Oregon Criminal Justice Commission how many crimes of all types were avoided in 2005 alone because of increased incarceration since 1995. Their answer was 98,786 crimes. You can see a letter from the CJC confirming this here.

This figure not only applies for 2005 but also for 2006, 2007, 2008 and on to the future. Looking back, a reasonable estimate is that increased incarceration has prevented a half-million crimes since 1995 and that total is increasing at the rate of roughly 100,000 per year.

And yet, as of 2005, Oregon ranked 34th among states in incarceration rate (source).

No one in Oregon did more to bring about this crime prevention than Steve Doell.

You can read further analysis of the relationship between incarceration and crime in Oregon here.

This is IRRESPONSIBLE reporting and a shame that "progressive" Blue Oregon will tolerate it. Any contributor worth their salt writes honestly, objectively and thoroughly. This piece exhibits none of those qualities and is downright sophomoric.

That aside, let me tell you about the Steve Doell I KNOW. As you've heard, Mr.Doell is an individual who has worked tirelessly on the behalf of victims, that once had no voice and few resources in Oregon. Over the course of his endeavor he has earned the respect of Democrats and Republicans alike. Steve has made great financial and personal sacrifices to do this important work and honor the memory of his precious daughter.

I find it appalling that the best Mr. Chisholm could come up with were some 19 yr. old allegations that surfaced after a bitter divorce. Additionally, Ms. Axtman's attempt to paint Mr. Doell as some sort of stalker was just pathetic.

What really hits below the belt, is that this blog was posted a few days before the Anniversary of Mr. Doell's daughter's death. You should be ashamed, Blue Oregon.

Posted by: Miss M. | October 23, 2008 at 01:10 PM

I made a post last night which was blocked by your spam blocker.

Please unblock it.

miss m - no doubt the timing of the posting was inadvertant, relative to the death of Mr. Doell's child. Cannot imagine anyone wishing to be that beastly here, even if it could turn out to have been wrong-headed in the long run.

Miss M wrote:

I find it appalling that the best Mr. Chisholm could come up with were some 19 yr. old allegations that surfaced after a bitter divorce.

Hey, Miss M, if you have something better, please post it here. I am sure Mr. Chisolm would be glad to check it out.

Howard wrote:

"No one in Oregon did more to bring about this crime prevention than Steve Doell."

Howard, you just took away Kevin Mannix's major talking point on why he should be elected when he runs for office again.

Shana wrote:

"Who lives at 7831 St Charles St NE Salem, OR 97303?."

There may be more but here are businesses and organizations that the address brings up.

1) Tommyknocker Enterprises (Ross A Day is listed as registrant and authorized representative by the Corporations Division.) 2) CommonSense for Oregon PAC (Ross A Day is treasurer) 3) The registrant of the domain name www.measure37.com (Ross A Day)

It appears Steve Doell is using Ross Day's address for his political committee.

Ross, what does Tommyknocker Enterprises do? I see "Friends of Bruce Hanna" paid you $12,701.00 on 9/9/2008 for "research" and the original filing didn't include a description, forcing the Secretary of State to send a letter. https://secure.sos.state.or.us/eim/transactionPubDetail.do?tranRsn=399953

Shana wrote:

"Who lives at 7831 St Charles St NE Salem, OR 97303?."

There may be more but here are businesses and organizations that the address brings up.

1) Tommyknocker Enterprises (Ross A Day is listed as registrant and authorized representative by the Corporations Division.) 2) CommonSense for Oregon PAC (Ross A Day is treasurer) 3) The registrant of the domain name www.measure37.com (Ross A Day)

It appears Steve Doell is using Ross Day's address for his political committee.

Ross, what does Tommyknocker Enterprises do? I see "Friends of Bruce Hanna" paid you $12,701.00 on 9/9/2008 for "research" and the original filing didn't include a description, forcing the Secretary of State to send a letter. https://secure.sos.state.or.us/eim/transactionPubDetail.do?tranRsn=399953

Mr. Kari Chisholm,

My name is Ken Edens, and am the Father of Tiffany Edens. I think you ask an excellant question in "is this guy really a credible advocate for crime victims?" My family and I feel qualified in responding to your question. I was given Steve's name a year ago last September after finding out that Richard Gilmore was granted parole. Steve met with my wife and I on a Saturday morning for nearly two hours. During those two hours he gave us the kind of support only a person who has also been victimized could give. Steve has been an unbelivable asset during our year long struggle with the State of Oregon. We did not see the man you describe as being out of control with serious anger issues. Steve was part of our team who with much wisdom and guidence helped in keeping us on the right tract, navigating through all of our challenges. About three months ago Steve and I were having a discussion regarding Measure 11, going back and forth over a point that we have disagreement. Steve said Ken, I have something that I need to tell you, and I am not proud of. He discribed the two incedents that you spoke of, almost word for word, that happened about twenty years ago. He told me what was going on in the divorce, but said that he was totally wrong, and to this day regrets it. He also said that about ten years ago the Willamett Week printed the whole story which would make it ten years after the fact. Now you bring it up ten years after the Willamette Week's story. Kari, in a relative short period of time, Steve Doel has become a friend, and I consider him part of our family.

Ken Edens

Tommyknocker: definitions

Original (found in Urban Dictionary.com)

Miners who have been trapped in cave-ins and pound on the rocks for rescue. It is believed that the ghosts of these miners go on knocking in the mine shafts long after the victims have died.

Later useage: This definition was the basis for Stephen King's bestselling book The Tommyknockers, only in his story it was aliens that had been trapped underground instead of miners.

So perhaps the fellow imagines himself to be the voice of the innocently-buried in a deep political process of murk and sinister lack of daylight?

Speculative thread.

Mr. Civiletti wrote:

Hey, Miss M, if you have something better, please post it here. I am sure Mr. Chisolm would be glad to check it out.

That's the whole point. Mr. Chisolm and Ms. Axtman have NOTHING on Mr. Doell. They are unfairly attacking his character based on nothing but hearsay. I thought Blue Oregon was "better" than that.

... other definition for Tommyknocker - homosexual. Did not really seem a likely candidate for the subject of this thread.

Kari, I did not finish answering your question, my bad. In my opinion there is no better victims advocate in the United States, than Steve Doell.

Ken Edens

Ken - Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Since you brought it up, what was the point upon which you and Steve disagreed about Measure 11?

Miss M -- please go back up and read the post by Ken Edens, in which he describes his conversation with Steve Doell.

Mr. Chisolm, I know that conversation first-hand. I still say this post was contrived and tasteless. Blue Oregon has had some exceptional pieces in the past; I just didn't count this one among them.

Based on the comments of the crime victims he has advocated for, I would say he is a good advocate.

To suggest that someone cannot evolve over a period of twenty years only gives people like McCain credibility in their stupid rants about Ayers. Both men are not the men they were 20+ years ago.

This is the second message I have sent you. I hope this one will be included. I am writing about one of the finest men I know, Steve Doell. I have known Steve for sixteen years. Steve and I are both survivors of homicide. We both attend the same support meeting. Steve supports members by helping them understand the justice system and attends the trials for their loved ones. He also lobbies for bills for victims. He is a tremendous support for the members and respected. Steve is not paid or reimbursed for any of his time. I hope you will print this. Thank you.