"In the process of performing very, very badly on national television, Palin is holding up a mirror to the rest of the political world, and revealing how the mix of talking points, bluster, obfuscation and BS that nearly all national politicians traffic in as a matter of course sounds when it's filtered through someone who isn't practiced in it, and isn't ready for the spotlight. Her performances reflect badly on her readiness for the vice presidency, no question - but they reflect badly on our whole compromised, spin-happy political class as well."

so far tonight i've been really really proud to be a democrat represented by Joe Biden. Is he perfect? of course not but is he capable? absolutely. Is he a passionate and committed civil servant? yes. Is he doing WAY better than I thought he would? heck yes.

I laughed like an 8th grader when I heard her say that Senator McCain tapped her. Glad somebody else caught that.

yeah i'm reading it and I think you may be way off. Although she talks like bush (all folksy and such, shucks), I think she came off pretty well. For those thinking she will drop in the polls after this, I think they may be wrong.

NBC is interviewing crazy Obama-hating Geraldine Ferraro, who said she was glad to see a woman stand toe-to-toe with a man who's been in the Senate 30 years and is certainly qualified to be president.

She said Palin acquitted herself quite well.

I think Palin spent a lot of time saying a whole lot of nothing. And I imagine there are millions of Americans right now saying, "Gee, she really makes a lot of sense, ya know."

so far tonight i've been really really proud to be a democrat represented by Joe Biden.

This shows one of the problems of the younger generation getting away with not using capital letters and writing almost everything in lower case. Did you mean democrat or Democrat? There's a big difference.

When Obama is President, I can see Ferraro with a career on Fox in the same light as Dicky Morris. Kinda sad for her to have fallen so.........

Watched with my family. We all thought this debate was more interesting than the Obama/McCain one last week. I was surprised that Palin stayed composed and on message, but she opened herself up to Biden's most effective retorts. Most notable thing for me was the way she repeatedly tried to put as much space between herself and Bush as possible, even criticizing Biden was "looking backwards", or words to that effect. And Biden was bound and determined to firmly tie her and McCain to Bush/Cheney.

Castro brothers...should we find those guys a date?

It's-a me! Castro!

Seems to me, Biden hit it out of the park during the last hour. It was smart of him to specifically attack John and not Sarah.

Palin's constant winking and gobbledegook and outright refusal to answer questions she doesn't like would have been an abysmal failure under normal circumstances. Because they set the bar so low for her, I suppose it counts as a draw just for not crashing and burning.

Just got home. Stuck on the rail with a river of changing twenty-something wimmens and the only screen that made them both look like they'd sprayed on tans without the goggles. Odd, I believe I caught Palin in a bit of hickspeak coaching. She most distinctly DID pronounce NU-CLEAR correctly one time. And quickly mangled it to cover up. I am just sure she has been coached to talk like a hick as her guise. Wink and all. Vapid generalities, clear message.

Depressing to realize that these events will NEVER speak to anyone who can't afford the 100K house... and is afraid of losing it. Biden disappointing in only speaking to those who pay mortgages, not a word or wink to any of the millions who hope to get to worry about that, or don't even HAVE the conversation about how to pay out of pocket as they do without. Simply do without.

Yes, I know the game. But it depresses me nevertheless.

As I drove home I realized that the place for me and those like me is truly out on the streets, maybe at rallies, but most definitely, to balance the depression that seeps up after about sixty minutes of this...

She took Steel Magnolia shots at him, good for her. And demonstrated that 1. she would make a great First Lady if she were married to a Fundagelical President; 2. she hasn't got a clue as to the Constitutional history of the responsibilities of the VP; 3. she is unaware that the word "Tolerant" carries with it the baggage of "Hate the Sin but Love the Sinner" and gritted-teeth smiles at people you despise but must work with.

It put a burning stone in my gut to hear the bullshit about Iraq and the timing of the initiation of that little expedition - I know a guy who was a primary trainer in NC years before we WENT to war, before 9/11 - they were training Iraquis in the North Carolina woods long before the rationale was delivered. That same guy used to go bust up meth labs and bruise up the cookers in the backwoods of OK when home to visit on leave while the Sheriffs looked the other way. And he joined Blackwater as a contractor when his gig in the Rangers was up.

It put a hitch in my friendliness gitalong when Palin babbled about global warming and how Alaskans see it more than anyone else (BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE EXPANSES OF NATURE THERE TO SHOW IT TO YOU YOU STUPID COW!!!!! AND SUBSISTENCE "LIVERS" WHO ARE SUFFERING CULTURAL OBLITERATIONS AS A RESULT OF THOSE CHANGES, TOO!!!) and I was angsted when Biden of course took the mainstream middle and upper class attack most easily taken when she spoke of the wonderfullness of drilling the Refuge, et. al.

A compelling argument against would be to review the expediting of destruction of the season-based lifeways of the many people who live there - not just the indigenous, although their woes will only be respected because of racial guilt - but we don't touch the creative, colorful other stories why.

Now that I've cheered myself up if not anyone else, another dreadful realization: I am the equivalent of a Sarah Palin up here on BO.

Emotional, general, slippery one-trick pony, just clever enough to wink on cue. She might be First Lady material, god help us, but this is not the person I want bouncing around the world on my behalf. "Sharing" with Henry K.

Don't forget, the media spin had O/McC a draw after the debate. I guess the "real" people don't watch the media any more.

Did anyone else catch the wink Sarah threw at us early on?

WTF? Is this the Miss America pageant???

Speaking of which, Sarah's ("Can I call you Sarah?") answers called to mind that unfortunate YouTube clip of poor Miss South Carolina. Can someone more blog-adept post a link to that?

Randy2

CNN debate poll results- no change in race dynamic, Palin does better than expected (after rock bottom expectations). Biden wins, Palin still unqualified. CBS instapoll of Independents shows Biden victory as well, 46-21.

From Talking Points Memo: Early Snap Polls: Biden Won Handily By Greg Sargent - October 2, 2008, 11:14PM

The first round of snap polls give the debate to Joe Biden, by sizable margins.

CBS polled 473 uncommitted debate-watchers, and found that 46% say Biden won, 21% say Palin won, and 33% say it was a tie.

While both candidates saw their images improve, 98% saw Biden as "knowledgeable" after the debate, while only 66% saw Palin as knowledgeable, an admittedly high number, given what folks thought of her before tonight.

Meanwhile, CNN's poll of debate-watchers found that far more thought Biden did the best job in the debate (51%) than Palin did (36%).

And here's a really key number from CNN. While a startling 84% said Palin did better than expected, it still wasn't enough for her to clear her basic hurdle tonight: Only 46% said she's qualified to serve as president, up only four points from before the debate. And a clear majority, 53%, say she is not qualified.

CNN Snap Poll: Biden 51%, Palin 36%

Hey Jeff,

Thanks for the comment. And it was great to finally shake your hand. While we disagree on many issues, I was sincere in what I said. I do truly appreciate the writing styles of you and Karol and look forward to reading your posts.

I am sure our paths will cross again soon.

Guv Mooseskinner vs Sen Hairplugs to a tv time limit...

As with BHO in the 1st debate, Palin wins by exceeding low expectations and more than holding her own against JoeyP. Bad strategy to paint her as an airhead the last 3 weeks. She even took the fight to him on several occasions.

What’s with Joe bringing up his Iraq war vote and how he knew we’d be there 10+ years?! If you knew it was such a bad idea why’d you vote for it in the first place?

And Ferraro! How dare she root for a female politician who’s not in her Party? Have you Dems formed a lynch mob outside her house yet?!

Biden cleaned up with Independents watching the debate, on all issues. Check this out: www.mediacurves.com

Overall 69-31 with Independents.

Josh Marshall from Talking Points Memo does a good wrap-up analysis on the debate- http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/221611.php

And Biden's finest moment at the end. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/221600.php

A watch partner near me kept an eye on the numbers, and the males were ticking up for Palin when she talked, and the women for Biden. I did not watch those numbers, I was staying in the gestural, verbal realm. This debate will not have swayed true believers. And I am wondering if the Mythical Undecided Masses is really so very large? Is there a realiable, "checked" number on that?

Inadvertent Blurts: Interesting that as Palin spun around on the Same Sex Couple Question, she ultimately came out with the "Gay Marriage" statement - at no time was she asked if she was for "Gay Marriage" specifically that I can recall. Yet that is what it devolved to for Mrs. Palin. She Shilled on the "diverse" term without ever really elucidating the specifics of her family diversity. Does she mean that the rest of her family are Fundagelical Snake Handlers? And she is the loved and tolerated liberal in the mess?

She also managed to be honest about the bailout, and corrected quickly immediately thereafter. Thank goodness she did manage to escape training and speak the truth.

Fox News has Joe Biden winning the debate 58% to Palin's 42%. 80,134 online votes.

It was Biden 52% to Palin's 42% earlier.

When you have the "right-leaning" cable news network (to MSNBC's "left-leaning) showing that their viewers thought Biden won, then you have a perception problem that propping up a VPILF will not solve.

Jeff, the zinger I caught from Biden was a build up as to the outlandishness of the Palin/McCain stance, "That's the ultimate bridge to nowhere" - our crowd erupted in trills, howls and boo-rah.

"And Ferraro! How dare she root for a female politician who’s not in her Party? Have you Dems formed a lynch mob outside her house yet?!"

No ... but we could pencil her in right after Joe Lieberman. You wouldn't have her address by any chance?

Bad strategy to paint her as an airhead the last 3 weeks.

It seems to me that Sarah Palin painted herself as an airhead during the last three weeks and gave comedians a chance to pile on.

I thought Gwen Ifill did an excellent job except for letting Palin get away with dodging questions and answering questions that weren't asked.

Joe did a great job of differentiating Obamas health plan versus McCains $5,000.00 gimmick that is actually a gift to the insurance industry.

This is an issue that once people look at the details they can clearly see they are being sold more of the same Bush crap.

Well done Joe.

The earpiece again, seriously...get a life.

If Palin would have cited Article 1 of the Constitution incorrectly, she would have to be dropped from the ticket (and I would be encouraging that was well). However, a freaking US Senator in the legislative branch got it wrong! Wow.

For progressives - Article 1 explains the Legislative branch - the branch he has served for 35 years. Utterly amazing and embarassing for any person of any political persuasion. He Tina Fey'd it.

If Palin would have cited Article 1 of the Constitution incorrectly, she would have to be dropped from the ticket (and I would be encouraging that was well).

I can see the headlines now: "Palin errs; johnnie demands new VP candidate".

JDW - Don't you think a US Senator of 35 years shouldn't make a type mistake that not even Palin, or even Tina Fey has made? Stupid answers to interview is bad enough, but to state an Constitutional error is worse.

"Biden got confused about one small issue--the Constitution ... But, then, what's the Constitution among friends?"

Gosh, given the Bush Administration's record over the past 8 years, you'd think Republicans would avoid any discussions about the Constitution.

It's not like the vice executive officer of the country insulted our intelligence by trying to argue that he wasn't part of the executive branch or anything. What a TORTUOUS spin, eh?

I'm convinced with every debate the target audience grows smaller, of uncommitted voters. And drawing a few more percent is probably a pretty good victory. Tonight Biden gets the edge according to the post-debate polls of uncommitted I've seen. Biden showed excellent discipline in keeping his message on one goal, tying John McCain to George Bush. Palin probably kept the spirits of her partisan backers up, but didn't win anyone over to the McCain cause who wasn't already there.

The winking cheerleader might have found resonance in her cheering section but the kind of gravitas we have come to expect in someone who is in line for the presidency was definitely not there, particular when you consider that John McCain is a survivor of four occurrences of Malignant Melanoma with a poor prognosis for much long term survival. Envision Sarah Palin with her finger on the nuclear button. That should keep us all up at night.

Dead spouses really should be declared off-limits as campaign fodder, Sarah. That was nasty. You'd best hope it does not happen to you. Has anyone other than nasty minded little bloggers said shite like Trigger Gate etc to you during this campaign? That was not nice, young lady, to throw that man's dead wife in his face and then keep spinning, right around to face the camera with a slippery wink and a boo-rah to the kids.

I give the McCain handlers credit: they came up with a good game plan for Gov. Palin and she stuck with it. Problem is, all it proved was that Gov. Palin could play the notes she was taught taught to play, but she couldn't make any music. She had nothing to say beyond what she was told to say.

Surprisingly, I don't feel that she brought any of the sharp one-liners/zingers that she fluently tossed during her convention speech. If the plan was for her to distract the audience, I think she'd have been better off with more snappy one-liners than a constant return to her stump-speech themes. Too many times she jumped ship on a question and returned to material she could spit out. I guess she'll save her zingers for all the rallies left to attend - especially since she's got no intention of sitting for anymore interviews.

I think Biden delivered the soundbytes that will live on. First, his stream about how McCain has said nothing to differentiate his policy from Pres. Bush's on Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. Secondly, near the end of the debate, his bit about how McCain hasn't been a maverick on the issues that really matter to the American people. I think this was effective for reaching undecided voters.

Ultimately, Gov. Palin helped herself (ahh, the glory of such low expectations). But she didn't create any separation from Pres. Bush; she didn't demonstrate any command of the issues of the day; and she didn't provide vision. She didn't do McCain many favors.

I'm not Joe six pack. My children are not Joe six packs. My friends are not Joe six pack. I don't want a nation of Joe six packs and certainly don’t want a Josephine six pack as the United States Vice President.

Having skimmed through several progressive web sites I'm relieved to know I'm not the only one who noted both Biden and Palin indulged in bending the facts. But I still despair at how many people still buy into the distortions and outright lies coming out of both campaigns.