Matt Lindland thinks you're stupid
Carla Axtman
So last week while I was puttering around the 'net, I came across an interesting article in the Sandy Post (and was reprinted in several other Pamplin papers) about the "Democratic surge" that may be hitting traditionally Republican Oregon House Districts.
The piece, written by Steve Law and Marcus Hathcock, quotes a number of House candidates in heated races. It specifically highlights House District 52, which stretches from the burg of Sandy out just past Hood River. The seat was recently vacated by the retiring Patti Smith, she of dubious Measure 37 fame.
The Democrat running for this seat is Suzanne VanOrman (contribute to her via ActBlue here), who talks about how hard she's working out on the campaign trail, taking nothing for granted.
Republican challenger Matt Lindland, on the other hand, decides to articulate how stupid he thinks we all are:
“We’re going to see a lot of (Republicans) change and shift their message to stoop to whatever’s popular,” Lindland said. “I don’t believe in that. I ran because I believe in a core set of values. My message will resonate with people who have common sense.”
That's right, kids. If Lindland's stump speech doesn't "resonate" with you, then you're just too stupid to get it. No common sense, dontcha know.
It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that Lindland is channeling Newt Gingrich circa 1994, could it? Cuz everybody just loved Newt's policies....
Lindland, who attributes Democratic successes to a widespread cultural belief that government can solve all of life’s problems, says his plan always has been to communicate the economic implications of Democrats taking the District 52 seat and others historically represented by Republicans.“Just wait until next session,” Lindland writes on his campaign Web site. “If the Democrats get 36 House members, your taxes will go up. It is that simple. I will not vote for any tax increases. Throwing more money at problems isn’t the answer.”
Read his lips. No new taxes. That's an even older and moldier trite-ism. No new taxes? Under any circumstances? Really...?
Didn't work out so well for that guy.
And since when are taxes all about "throwing money at problems"? A great education is free? Proper infrastructure, emergency services, etc. are all just stuff we throw money at and if we cut them off--then things will be all hunky dory?
Yeah....common sense.
This whole thing is reminiscent to me of a section of Lindland's Wikipedia page:
Lindland's next loss came at the hands of Falaniko Vitale, who Matt Lindland attempted to slam, only to knock himself out in the process.
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Aug 12, '08
I could care less about MMA fighting, but Lindland looks like a pretty good candidate to me. I think you are really stretching to suggest that Lindland's statement means he thinks people are stupid.
And your analogy with Bush 41 - the reason he lost his re-election bid was because he broke his promise, not because he made his promise.
As for your juvenile excerpt from his wikipedia page.. they guy is one of the best fighters in the world. He won an Olympic silver medal. He's very accomplished in his profession and has numerous small business enterprises.
In short, he is a very accomplished, impressive person. I could care less about MMA, but I think we need more people like Matt Lindland running for office.
Your shallow attempt to marginalize him only succeed in making yourself look sillier than usual.
3:41 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
Lindland's next loss came at the hands of Falaniko Vitale, who Matt Lindland attempted to slam, only to knock himself out in the process.
The difference here, of course, is that Lindland did not have a frequently recurring echo chamber to catapult his talking points to an ever widening circle of folks who by God find it just fascinating that an Ultimate Fighter is running.
At least this thread will make Coyote and his buddies happy. Just spell Lindland correctly.
<hr/>I mean seriously, I spent some time last week with a bunch of guys who were asking trenchant questions about Michelle's anger level and Barak's "present" votes. They are not prone to an analytical approach to........well......anything at all, but they are damned near ecstatic to see that The Libruls at Blue Oregon seem to be endlessly fascinated with their guy.
Even though they normally would avoid actual, you know, reading, they'll make an exception by coming over and having a laugh at us commies, once again refusing to internalize the Gospel, and who knows.....might even get out and work for their boy.
<hr/>I doubt that all of this attention will serve the function of helping him to knock himself out.
It is my earnest and heartfelt desire that the Great Minds of Blue Oregon turn their attention to one of the other fifty nine races.
This is one where we actually have a chance to win for the first time since the advent of Patti Smith.
3:43 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
the reason he lost his re-election bid was because he broke his promise, not because he made his promise.
Ah, but you see -- he broke his promise because it was a stupid promise to make.
3:53 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
I could care less about MMA fighting, but Lindland looks like a pretty good candidate to me. I think you are really stretching to suggest that Lindland's statement means he thinks people are stupid.
Lindland is directly claiming that those who don't find his words resonante with them, then they lack common sense. That's saying that they're stupid.
Your shallow attempt to marginalize him only succeed in making yourself look sillier than usual.
Lindland is marginalizing himself, by claiming that those who don't agree with him are stupid--and by making a silly no-new-taxes pledge. Should Lindland win and Oregon undergoes a massive natural disaster or attack, Lindland would vote against tax increases even if it meant more funding for emergency services..?
I've never met Lindland (although I hope to meet all of the local House candidates before the election--and maybe some outside of local) and I have no idea if he is "accomplished". But frankly, that interview he gave to the writers of this story is anything but "impressive".
4:19 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
Personally, the fact that he won an Olympics medal doesn't mean anything - we're talking about elective office here, not sports. There have been plenty of people who have won medals who aren't that great of people, so the medal tells us nothing about the kind of representative he'd be in Salem.
The district he's running to represent has a number of problems that need to be solved at the state level, including transportation needs, crime problems, etc. This district has a huge amount of traffic through it on I-84 and Hwy 26, two of the state's busiest roads, and includes a lot of state owned/maintained land.
The fact that he's not willing to raise a dime of taxes in order to fix these problems - or others that might come up - shows he is not the best representative for the district. You can't go into the office already leaving out options - otherwise when the only solution left is the option you've said you absolutely are against, you're in trouble. Either you break your word or you fail your constituents.
while Lindland is out insulting people saying you either get my message or have no common sense, VanOrman is out there is the district speaking with the voters on the issues that matter to them most - education, health care, roads and bridges, crime, land use, etc. Maybe if he got out there and actually spoke with the voters, business owners, etc., he'd see that many of his ideas aren't based in reality.
He says that raising taxes is why Oregon isn't business friendly - then why do states with the highest taxes on businesses have so many businesses flocking there, but Oregon (with its extremely low business taxes) is losing businesses? Maybe it's because businesses realize that a certain tax rate is needed so that the roads and bridges they need are maintained, that there is a good public safety system there to protect their business, that there is a good education system to teach their next generation of workers, etc. Oregon's problem isn't high business taxes - it's not having the infrastructure and services that businesses need to thrive. And sorry Lindland - those services need taxes.
Take Gresham, for example. We've been losing a lot of businesses over the past several years. At the same time, we have some of the lowest taxes in the state - our property tax is one of the lowest in the entire state and the lowest of cities providing full services. But businesses are leaving and going to surrounding cities that don't have the crime problem we have. And why is it that our crime problem has become so bad? Not enough officers (7 officers max on duty at night, 12 officers max during the day). And why do we have so few officers? Not enough money - almost 90% of our $40 million budget goes to police and fire. There's nothing left to cut to add more officers. And based on our city population of more than 100,000 our city budget should be in the $80-120 million range.
Aug 12, '08
Jenni
Very interesting take as far as Gresham is concerned. I live in Lane County and enjoy watching the spectator sport of politics, especially the differences between Eugene and Springfield.
Springfield's mayor, whom many in the republican party in this area call him the next superstar, has advocated an increase in property taxes to fund more police, more fire fighters, and to fund and operate a jail. Yes, you heard me correctly he advocated more taxes. He has also been a champion of economic development and more jobs and that has also occured.
I have never met Mr. Lindland but he is falling into the old line republican argument less government and less taxes. Instead of listening to his Conservative Majority Report republicans, he should maybe actually ask a republican who has had success by increasing certain taxes to try and make his area a success.
4:54 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
I certainly hope that VanOrman runs a campaign that articulates the tax increases that ya'll seem to be calling for right here.
Although something tells me that she is not going to go that route. In fact I think I remember a newspaper interview with her during the primary in which she was trying pretty hard (for a Democrat) to back away from tax increases.
So... The question now is. Will she be honest and upfront with the voters in district 52 and announce her advocacy of higher taxes like Dave Hunt is doing?
Or will she attempt to sidestep and dodge the issue and claim that we don't need taxes? And if she does that will the kids over here at BO be just as hard on her for that?
BTW What is Oregon's ranking in unemployment now compared to the other states? Surely with a Democrat legislature and Governor the state of Oregon should be leading the path to full employment.
yip yip
5:00 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
Josh:
I've run into a number of Republicans like that - many of which have been leaving the Party in recent years. When I was canvassing on the coast in '04 with the Bus Project, my canvassing partner and I came across a Republican who felt taxes needed to be raised - he said he got a good education as a kid, and he felt it was his responsibility to do the same for today's generation. Not to mention the need for better roads, public safety, etc.
Just reading though Lindland's web site is like reading through a manual on how to run for office as a conservative Republican - say the Democrat is going to raise taxes, say you'll never raise taxes, say taxes are what is keeping businesses away, recognize the problems in the area and offer no solutions, etc. It's all just rhetoric which has already been shown to have failed Oregon - it's exactly how Oregon was run for more than a decade, and look where it got us. We have one of the shortest school days and school years, our public health care system is almost non-existent, our roads and bridges are crumbling, crime labs in the state are so far behind that rapists are rarely caught, etc. And everything he is saying on his web site would just return us to the thinking that got us there is the first place.
But I guess when you have no ideas of your own, the easiest thing to do is point to the other person and say "she's going to raise taxes!!"
5:13 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
We've had one session with Democrats in control of Salem - it's going to take a lot longer than that to fix more than a decade of Republican control. Not only that, but many of the changes that need to be made need 36 votes - something that Democrats don't have yet. There isn't a magic switch that changes everything the moment power changes hands from one Party to another - it takes time.
As to all her positions, you'd be better served hearing from someone in HD52 who is paying more attention to all the specifics. I'm pretty heavily focused on my district, HD 49, and my race for city council. So I haven't been able to spend as much time reading up on all the candidates this year as I would normally. I do rememeber that she said she wasn't in favor of a gas tax increase to pay for roads - she mentioned borrowing funds like the state had in the past. But since that's the only bit of info I remember for certain, I'm not about to speculate on what else she's said.
5:38 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
Ted:
I think most would be happy to have someone articulating on solving the very pressing issues of the state and the district, rather than regurgitating 1994's rehashed Republican platitudes. Blanket anti-tax rhetoric and down-talking doesn't appeal to a good number of folks.
But then I believe the electorate is much smarter than Lindland believes, apparently.
Aug 12, '08
I met VanOrman this past year at the Oregon Womens' Campaign School and instantly liked her. She came and sat in the middle of six young women (including myself) and started talking politics - very fitting given the context of why we were together. She seemed straightforward, candid, and honest. I really haven't been following her race and I don't know much about Lindland, so instead I digress to another Republican, Steve Griffith, who is running for MacPherson's old seat in HD38.
Griffith knocked on my door a couple weeks ago and we chatted for 20-30 minutes on the issues. Nothing in our conversation indicated to me that he's a Republication until I saw it in the fine print of one of his handouts (that and I know Chris Garrett is the Dem nominee). Griffith, a lawyer with Stoel Rives, says he is pro-choice and pro-gay rights (voted against M36), his family is full of Dems (according to him), and his nephew is the Mayor of Bend (I told him he should pass on some better urban planning tips to his nephew). When I asked him why he's a Republican, he said that he (like Haugen) is a Lincoln and McCall-type Republican. I admit I kinda liked the guy, but I have tremendous issues with putting a Republican in a Dem seat in Salem. However, in my neighborhood, the Griffith signs are popping up very quickly, and I have yet to see a single Garrett sign. The ONLY Republican sign I have ever seen in my neighborhood was a lone Bush/Cheney sign back in '04. So, what is happening? Who are these Republicans coming out of the woodwork?
Aug 12, '08
I met VanOrman this past year at the Oregon Womens' Campaign School and instantly liked her. She came and sat in the middle of six young women (including myself) and started talking politics - very fitting given the context of why we were together. She seemed straightforward, candid, and honest. I really haven't been following her race and I don't know much about Lindland, so instead I digress to another Republican, Steve Griffith, who is running for MacPherson's old seat in HD38.
Griffith knocked on my door a couple weeks ago and we chatted for 20-30 minutes on the issues. Nothing in our conversation indicated to me that he's a Republication until I saw it in the fine print of one of his handouts (that and I know Chris Garrett is the Dem nominee). Griffith, a lawyer with Stoel Rives, says he is pro-choice and pro-gay rights (voted against M36), his family is full of Dems (according to him), and his nephew is the Mayor of Bend (I told him he should pass on some better urban planning tips to his nephew). When I asked him why he's a Republican, he said that he (like Haugen) is a Lincoln and McCall-type Republican. I admit I kinda liked the guy, but I have tremendous issues with putting a Republican in a Dem seat in Salem. However, in my neighborhood, the Griffith signs are popping up very quickly, and I have yet to see a single Garrett sign. The ONLY Republican sign I have ever seen in my neighborhood was a lone Bush/Cheney sign back in '04. So, what is happening? Who are these Republicans coming out of the woodwork?
Aug 12, '08
Ugh, sorry for the duplicate comment. A little admin help to delete one, please?
Aug 12, '08
the retiring Patti Smith, she of dubious Measure 37 fame.
Surely you are referring to the same Measure 37 that was approved by Oregon voters which was already approved by Oregon voters, M7.
What's dubious was the way the ballot title was screwed with to win 1 outta 3...
I hope this is on topic...
Aug 12, '08
"We've had one session with Democrats in control of Salem - it's going to take a lot longer than that to fix more than a decade of Republican control."
Come on Jenni. Republicans didn't control Salem.
Democrats have controled the governor's office, every agency and statewide office forever.
Casting the slight majority Republicans had in the legislature for a number of years as controling Salem is just so much bunk.
Aug 12, '08
Although I don't agree with Lindland's values, because I think the Republican Party has been taken over by people whose actual values are as impoverished as those of the rogues gallery that posts here are, Carla apparently has a reading disability.
His actual quote:
"I ran because I believe in a core set of values. My message will resonate with people who have common sense.”
If it doesn't resonate with you, that means, use your finger to follow the words slowly now Carla like you were taught: IT DOESN'T RESONATE WITH YOU --- BECAUSE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES.
Stupid: Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
is not even close to being synonymous within "lacking:
Commonsense: Sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like."
except to those who "are slow to learn or understand". And to embellish the words of that reknowned philosopher Ron White, no matter how many opportunities you give a lot of the BO rogues' gallery to think twice about embarrassing themselves in public by removing all doubt about it: "You just can't fix stupid."
It's amazing that even though an intelligent 10-year-old will understand the difference, how many Blue Oregonians go on and on in what really is an embarrassing display of egotism. The overwhelming impression is that a lot of BO regulars must have grown up being told how "special" they were without ever catching on that it wasn't "special" to be "special".
Here's another example of a Democrat who clearly is too ignorant to know that her egotism is what renders her as unimpressive to her fellow citizens many of the "special" children here are:
Pelosi Clashes With Protesters Over Impeachment http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6268
It's OK Carla you're still VERY "special".
9:55 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
Come on Jenni. Republicans didn't control Salem.
Democrats have controled the governor's office, every agency and statewide office forever.
Casting the slight majority Republicans had in the legislature for a number of years as controling Salem is just so much bunk.
Having the governor's office and statewide offices still doesn't put you in control unless you have the legislature. It's the legislature that makes the budget, decides whether to raise/lower taxes, decides how much money schools and roads and state police get, etc.
The governor, SOS, AG, etc. can make recommendations, but it all comes down to the legislature. The governor could fight with the legislature over the budget and veto it. Most do as much as they can to get their say in the budget during the process, but then sign what is sent them. They prefer not to be in a situation like some states have had where they're without a budget.
And generally speaking, whoever holds the legislature is typically considered to be the one who "controls" things since they're the one who controls the budget.
Aug 12, '08
Lindland is directly claiming that those who don't find his words resonante with them, then they lack common sense. That's saying that they're stupid.
Carla, did you turn off your irony meter along with your spelling/grammar checker?
I believe you were trying to equate a lack of common sense with stupidity - the sort of thing someone lacking in both might assume.
We all know someone who is "book smart" but has no common sense. Remember the guy in high school with the perfect SAT score who kept running his car out of gas?
Sort of like an otherwise talented blogger who finds herself trying to manufacture outrage over non-issues every week to meet her quota....
10:40 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
What is Oregon's ranking in unemployment now compared to the other states?
Um, Ted/Coyote... You do know that Oregon has the lowest corporate taxes in the country, right?
Republicans like to claim that low taxes on business create jobs. So where are the damn jobs?
(Maybe, just maybe, that low taxes equal jobs math isn't quite what it's cracked up to be, eh?)
10:59 p.m.
Aug 12, '08
What is Oregon's ranking in unemployment now compared to the other states?
We were tied for #33 on the unemployment numbers (with #1 having the lowest unemployment) for June. We've been fairly consistent in being one of the worst 7 states for unemployment. Our newest number puts our unemployment a half point higher than the previous month, and that didn't include large layoffs announced at the end of the month. I have not been able to find comparisons with July's numbers yet.
As to the argument over the use of the word "stupid."
While the official definition doesn't mention the word stupid, it's definitely part of the socially accepted description of lacking common sense. Someone who is educated, but lacking common sense is routinely called "book smart, street stupid." People lacking in common sense are typically seen as being stupid in the areas that deal with everyday life, everyday activities, etc.
Many of the phrases we have regarding common sense include the word "stupid," including "it's common sense, stupid."
Aug 13, '08
Funny how nobody really addressed coyote's point. What will you libs do if van orman runs away from taxes for the whole campaign? She knows her district is profoundly against tax increases of all kinds, and she also knows that the OEA and all the other public employee unions are pushing for a tax hike, but that she can't win if she supports it.
So when she says she doesn't support a gas tax hike, or a corporate income tax hike - are you libs gunna scream bloody murder at her?
Or are you gunna give her a pass, knowing that she will vote with the caucus if she wins, so why screw up her chance to win?
Just wondering about the integrity around here.
12:47 a.m.
Aug 13, '08
If I disagree with someone, I'm going to disagree with them regardless of Party. And I'll let them know it, the way I've let Merkley know I was unhappy with a few things.
However, the fact is that even if I disagree with her on some issues, she's still better than her opponent, by far.
8:29 a.m.
Aug 13, '08
"I ran because I believe in a core set of values. My message will resonate with people who have common sense.”
If it doesn't resonate with you, that means, use your finger to follow the words slowly now Carla like you were taught: IT DOESN'T RESONATE WITH YOU --- BECAUSE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES.
I'm taking Lindland at his word. He says his message will resonate with people that have common sense. Articulating that a whole swath of people lack common sense because your message doesn't resonate with them means that you think they're stupid.
Its pretty fascinating how some of the commentors here are sweating this so hard--trying to parse out such an obvious statement by Lindland. Its almost like...(gasp!)..you're trying to make excuses for him and defend his silly words!
Shocking.
Aug 13, '08
While the official definition doesn't mention the word stupid, it's definitely part of the socially accepted description of lacking common sense.
Jenni, no it's not. Your entire comment after that is simply a recitation of different redefinitions of the word for the sake of making a point from which you stupidly stripped all meaning by your very act of redefining the word. And incidentally, not in the way Carla used it as defined by the implicature she admits in her own comment that she intended.
As far as unemployment, Oregon's problem is chronic unemployment, which doesn't show up in the figures at all, and even more than that under-employment, which shows up as low average income. Which is why we can't fund our schools, we can't fix our roads, we tell low-income people to get in a lottery for health care, and we tell their children that they only get health care if their parents will smoke themselves to death. Oregon is also a state with a high proportion of small and ultra-small businesses that come and go that also don't show up in the unemployment rates because in many cases those workers aren't eligible for unemployment insurance. People can make up their spin as they choose, I think this smart-ass but empty WWeek comment about fits right with the kinds of attitudes here:
How to Live Cheap in Portland Throwing too much money away on food and shelter? here’s WW’s Recession Survival Guide. http://wweek.com/editorial/3440/11370/
Funny! there is no integrity around here. This is the cheap whorehouse of a lust for status and and the groupies to the (not really so) powerful that is Blue Oregon. A lot of Democrats here would be Republicans in other communities where that was the dominant group. They aren't really players on any political stage except the one in their own mind. This is a mutual feel-good and self-assurance group, not a serious political or intellectual exercise. I'll bet when you read it in that light, it changes things entirely.
Aug 13, '08
While the official definition doesn't mention the word stupid, it's definitely part of the socially accepted description of lacking common sense.
Jenni, no it's not. Your entire comment after that is simply a recitation of different redefinitions of the word for the sake of making a point from which you stupidly stripped all meaning by your very act of redefining the word. And incidentally, not in the way Carla used it as defined by the implicature she admits in her own comment that she intended.
As far as unemployment, Oregon's problem is chronic unemployment, which doesn't show up in the figures at all, and even more than that under-employment, which shows up as low average income. Which is why we can't fund our schools, we can't fix our roads, we tell low-income people to get in a lottery for health care, and we tell their children that they only get health care if their parents will smoke themselves to death. Oregon is also a state with a high proportion of small and ultra-small businesses that come and go that also don't show up in the unemployment rates because in many cases those workers aren't eligible for unemployment insurance. People can make up their spin as they choose, I think this smart-ass but empty WWeek comment about fits right with the kinds of attitudes here:
How to Live Cheap in Portland Throwing too much money away on food and shelter? here’s WW’s Recession Survival Guide. http://wweek.com/editorial/3440/11370/
Funny! there is no integrity around here. This is the cheap whorehouse of a lust for status and and the groupies to the (not really so) powerful that is Blue Oregon. A lot of Democrats here would be Republicans in other communities where that was the dominant group. They aren't really players on any political stage except the one in their own mind. This is a mutual feel-good and self-assurance group, not a serious political or intellectual exercise. I'll bet when you read it in that light, it changes things entirely.
Aug 13, '08
While the official definition doesn't mention the word stupid, it's definitely part of the socially accepted description of lacking common sense.
Jenni, no it's not. Your entire comment after that is simply a recitation of different redefinitions of the word for the sake of making a point from which you stupidly stripped all meaning by your very act of redefining the word. And incidentally, not in the way Carla used it as defined by the implicature she admits in her own comment that she intended.
As far as unemployment, Oregon's problem is chronic unemployment, which doesn't show up in the figures at all, and even more than that under-employment, which shows up as low average income. Which is why we can't fund our schools, we can't fix our roads, we tell low-income people to get in a lottery for health care, and we tell their children that they only get health care if their parents will smoke themselves to death. Oregon is also a state with a high proportion of small and ultra-small businesses that come and go that also don't show up in the unemployment rates because in many cases those workers aren't eligible for unemployment insurance. People can make up their spin as they choose, I think this smart-ass but empty WWeek comment about fits right with the kinds of attitudes here:
How to Live Cheap in Portland Throwing too much money away on food and shelter? here’s WW’s Recession Survival Guide. http://wweek.com/editorial/3440/11370/
Funny! there is no integrity around here. This is the cheap whorehouse of a lust for status and and the groupies to the (not really so) powerful that is Blue Oregon. A lot of Democrats here would be Republicans in other communities where that was the dominant group. They aren't really players on any political stage except the one in their own mind. This is a mutual feel-good and self-assurance group, not a serious political or intellectual exercise. I'll bet when you read it in that light, it changes things entirely.
8:59 a.m.
Aug 13, '08
Funny! there is no integrity around here. This is the cheap whorehouse of a lust for status and and the groupies to the (not really so) powerful that is Blue Oregon. A lot of Democrats here would be Republicans in other communities where that was the dominant group. They aren't really players on any political stage except the one in their own mind. This is a mutual feel-good and self-assurance group, not a serious political or intellectual exercise. I'll bet when you read it in that light, it changes things entirely.
So then why are you here? Are you above all of us lil giants-in-our-own-minds peons? Or are you one of us low-lifers who dig watching the whorehouse? LOL
You're really pumping hard over there trying to undermine this place. Apparently that nerve I hit here on Lindland is more raw than I realized.
12:22 p.m.
Aug 13, '08
Carla, You know darned good and well that that statement by Lindland, like countless other similar statements by other candidates, was not calling anyone "stupid."
I assume you are really just practicing the art of hit piece hyperbole and that you really don't believe that.
Because in order to believe that one would have to be...well...
12:34 p.m.
Aug 13, '08
You know darned good and well that that statement by Lindland, like countless other similar statements by other candidates, was not calling anyone "stupid."
I assume you are really just practicing the art of hit piece hyperbole and that you really don't believe that.
Because in order to believe that one would have to be...well...
Nope Ted. I know this is a tough one for you because you really want Lindland to win. He's a guy who rolls with your "common sense": the folks who want to drown government in the bathtub, a la Norquist.
Coming right out and essentially saying that people who disagree with him are stupid might be how he honestly feels, but its not an especially smart campaign strategy. No amount of parsing or wordplay by Lindland's supporters/defenders will change his words or their meaning.
1:44 p.m.
Aug 13, '08
I showed the comment to several more people - several of whom are Republicans - and they all said the same thing - that if you don't agree with him, you must be stupid.
And of course, there's always this:
stupid Adjective 1. lacking in common sense or intelligence 2. trivial, silly, or childish: we got into a stupid quarrel 3. unable to think clearly; dazed: stupid with tiredness [Latin stupidus] stupidity n stupidly adv
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
stupid ¦ adjective (stupider, stupidest) 1. lacking intelligence or common sense. informal used to express exasperation or boredom: stop messing about with your stupid paintings! 2. dazed and unable to think clearly.
Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 11th edition
<hr/>And yes, I realize there are plenty of people who are unemployed and not included in the stats. I've been one of them before, having worked as a contract employee for an online company, and having worked short-term projects.
I was answering the question as to what our unemployment numbers were compared to the other states.
Aug 13, '08
Reading all of these comments leaves me just one thing to say: If Lindland is calling on 'Common Sense' to his voters, then he has, logically, shot himself in his own foot because Common Sense dictates that you vote for somebody other than Linland. He's basically telling everyone "don't vote for me". He is, in fact, the stupid one - not us.
Aug 13, '08
I certainly want Lindland to lose, and there is plenty to criticize in his message, but it's thin-skinned to say he's calling people who don't support him stupid.
If the headline and main point of this article was something like "Matt Lindland makes irrational promise", that would make a useful point.
Politics is a rough-and-tumble game, and if we take umbrage at slights like this that are a big stretch, we lose credibility for times when politicians say truly outrageous things. Let's save it for those times.
Aug 13, '08
Okay, let's go with the exact wording and not get into definitions. Lindland says his message will resonate with people who have commmon sense. I've heard his message and it doesn't resonate with me. Therefore, he's indicating that I lack common sense....and this isn't an insult? Bottom line, it was a poorly worded statement and I can only hope that it doesn't portray his true feelings about the people he hopes to represent. I certainly wouldn't vote for someone who felt I lacked common sense. He's insulting and needs to consider his words more clearly. On the other hand, I hope Suzanne wins, so I guess I actually hope Lindland keeps insulting his base.
Aug 13, '08
Those who think that Lindland is calling them stupid don't have the logic correct.
He said that it will resonate with people with common sense. He doesn't say "with all people with common sense."
Politicians use this sort of language on a regular basis. What if he'd said "my message will resonate with my constituents"? Would this mean that if it doesn't resonate with you you can't be a constituent? If it does you are a constituent, no matter where you live?
What if Gordon Smith or Jeff Merkley says "my message will resonate with Oregonians"? Does that mean they're calling some people in the state non-Oregonians?
It just seems petty to be up in arms over this statement, when there's plenty of substantive grist for the mill.
Aug 13, '08
Jenni, your logic once again is indicates a subnormal IQ.
First, the fact you have anecdotal examples and you think it means anything other than those people think YOU are stupid pretty much just means you ARE stupid.
Second, with regard to your irrelevant dictionary cites: Just because someone who is stupid could lack common sense, it is not logically correct to assert that someone who lacks common sense is stupid. Asserting that the converse of a true statement is true is a common logical fallacy that stupid people arrogant in their lack of intelligence make.
Therefore, he's indicating that I lack common sense....and this isn't an insult?
Ms. Mel Harrison, only if you, like a lot of Blue Oregonians, are ignorantly egotistical enough to believe that "it's all about me, mE, ME! All of the time!". "Common sense" is not a single, sharply, and rigidly defined body of knowledge. He may appeal to a group of people with some sub-body of common sense and not be particularly appealing to another group of people with another sub-body of common sense. As in: He's not appealing to me at all, but that has nothing to do with whether his supporters have some common sense or whether the kind of deeply thoughtful people I choose to associate with and to whom he doesn't appeal have some common sense.
Aug 13, '08
If Carla had been honest, she would have titled her post:
"Carla Axtman thinks you are stupid, because she actually thinks she can fool you with this nonsense."
Certainly the evidence is that this is the way that Carla, Charlie, Jeff, Kari, Chris, and the rest of the Romper Room gang feel about us great unwashed.
10:26 p.m.
Aug 13, '08
Jenni, your logic once again is indicates a subnormal IQ.
Only if the measure of an IQ is whether or not I agree with you. The tests I've taken disagree soundly.
And they're not the only things that disagree with you - I've shown the comment to numerous people who felt the exact same way.
But obviously anyone who disagrees with you must be stupid, clueless, etc. according to your comments. I'm here to talk with other progressives, not go around and around with people who come in just to cause trouble. Boy I can't wait until Blue Oregon 2.0.
Aug 14, '08
Here's a line from a story in The Oregonian on May 4 (http://www.jeffmerkley.com/2008/05/merkley_takes_t_1.php):
Merkley said he's seen his message resonate with voters who also want to keep jobs in Oregon, stop the war in Iraq and elevate the U.S. as a standard bearer for human rights.
Does this mean that he was saying that those who supported Novick don't want to keep jobs in Oregon, don't want to stop the war in Iraq, and don't want to elevate the U.S. as a standard bearer for human rights?
Let's go after Lindland on the substance of what he's saying, and not cry about a supposed insult that's just not there.
Aug 14, '08
Plumb Tickled: 1. It's "Harmon, not Harrison"-my ego isn't huge but it does require you actually use MY name when addressing me...speaking of which, what is YOUR name? Who ARE you and why are YOU so up in arms about this?
"Sub-body of common sense"???!!! WTF does that even mean? Are you actually trying to make a point or just trollig with a thesaurus and dictionary in hand. Hint: Just cause you write a lot of words (even made-up ones) doesn't prove your point. It just proves you're a nitwit.
Ditto what Jenni said above---BO.2 can't get online soon enough.
Aug 14, '08
Italics OFF
Aug 14, '08
Let's not forget that Matt Lindland doesn't just think you're stupid, he also thinks that running for office is "kind of a hassle" and "kind of a pain in the ass."
Voters in HD 52, beware: Matt Lindland is a busy man. Clearly, he thinks you're wasting his time. And apparently the opportunity to solve the challenges of Oregon families is simply "a pain in the ass."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu5Njmp1OE8
Aug 14, '08
It's silly that a guy so worthless as lindland is getting all this attention. Instead of feeding his narcissistic ego, let's help out the incredible Democratic candidate in HD 52, Suzanne VanOrman.
Visit her website http://votevanorman.com/, volunteer, donate to her campaign. She's an awesome candidate who really wants to make a difference!
Aug 14, '08
Sorry, here this link works
http://votevanorman.com/
Aug 14, '08
How often we waste incredible amounts of time over definitions! And here I am, joining the fray. But the argument over the "logic" of what should be inferred from Lindland's statement, which is given as "My message will resonate with people who have common sense” is too much of a temptation to pass up. It comes from taking Professor Searles class in Aristotelian logic a long time ago, and has to do with what Aristotle called the "excluded middle." Lindland's statement does not say "all people." Nor does it say "some people." Thus, an ambiguity: it is possible, on the statement's face, that he would agree that some people who have common sense might not find resonation (if that's a word; Microsoft apparently doesn't think so). But can anyone really argue, with a straight face, that he meant "some," rather than "all?" Surely not. Add the "all" word, and the conclusion is inescapable: those who don't agree with him lack common sense. (As a syllogism: Major premise: "This will resonate with all people who have common sense." Minor premise: "It does not resonate with this person." Inescapable conclusion: "This person does not have common sense." Professor Searles would love it. But the debate over whether "having common sense" means "not stupid" (or "not to have common sense" means "to be stupid") is one of those arguments over definitions which take up inordinate amounts time, to little purpose. The only definitive answer here would be to ask Lindland what he means by "common sense" -- that is, does he believe that folks who lack common sense are "stupid?" That's a question of fact -- so if anyone cares that much, go ask him! One of the mantras we learned at my papa's knee: "Sensible people do not argue over questions of fact; they go look them up." As for me, I'll just go with thinking Lindland thinks I lack common sense, and considering the source, not lose too much sleep over it.
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