You are not a bargaining chip. You are a Democrat.
John Dunagan
God love the concern trolls.
This historic chain of events, has created a whole new premise for habitual Republican troublemakers on blogs everywhere, Blue Oregon included, to don their troubled Hillary supporter pseud and persona, and scold the rest of us to walk on eggshells, lest we offend them.
O, the fragile egos! Anoint me with tissue, for I shall proceed smartly through the Kubler-Ross stages, even though the candidate I REALLY support knocked off Governors Howdy Doody and Ken Doll last March! Shhh! Do not wound me, for I am a Republican supporting Hillary in drag, because Rush told me to!
It's a PLOY, my brothers, sisters, and other people who don't swear as much as me.
They want you to cry, because it's not as effective in turning out millions of new voters nationwide when you're sad, or depressed. They want you to speak in hushed, self-conscious tones like John McCain did at the Kenner, LA High School cafeteria last night (packed to the rafters!) to get in on the action, because when you're pulling your national community out of the toilet, to them it's just not right that you should enjoy it!
My goodness, you might even be MARRIED to a Hillary supporter! Think of the children!
They really just want you to feel somehow Guilty, or Naughty, because you. made. history.
As if you had any reason on earth to be.
Come ON, you know better.
Plenty of Real Democrats supported Hillary, and you'll be able to tell who they are, because they're the ones who stand up, and they'll be right there alongside you at the lit drop, the town hall, Precinct Meeting, and any other place where there's butt to be kicked, hope to be given, change to be affected, and Republicans to be sent back to the prep line at Shakey's.
People like Hilary Rosen, who stood up like a hero over at HuffPo and even helped me name my post. Even people like Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton herself, for whom Job One is still, as it ever was, to make sure Grandpa Simpson McSame doesn't get anywhere near the White House unless the Suns win the NBA Championship.
Some are angry. They'll need some time to go through it. But they'll be back, and they'll be helping you extricate yourselves from that Gordon Smith problem, or over here, making the Republicans go all-in just to shore up some base.
Why? Because they're Democrats.
But make no mistake: the people scolding you for your exuberance, never were.
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2:17 p.m.
Jun 4, '08
Uhhhhh.....
I'm not a Republican troll, but if I were, I wouldn't be scolding Obama partisans for "exuberance". Or even smug triumphalism.
No. What I would be doing is pretending to be an Obama supporter making as many offensive, sexist, inflammatory, comments as possible. All in hopes of alienating Clinton supporters into voting for McCain.
Personally, I think the accusation of trolling tends to be overblown. Sure, there are the hillaryis44.org types. And the Clintons themselves have not handled this as gracefully as they could have. But I think the vast majority of Clinton supporters saying "don't gloat" are just being honest with where they're at right now.
So I, for one, will take clues from the behavior of my candidate Barack Obama, and be as gentle, positive, supportive, and graceful as I can.
So welcome Hillary Democrats. Nearly everything she has been fighting for in terms of policy, you will find he supports too. Let us end the Republican national nightmare together.
Jun 4, '08
John, nice post. Thanks.
Jun 4, '08
Steven says: "No. What I would be doing is pretending to be an Obama supporter making as many offensive, sexist, inflammatory, comments as possible. All in hopes of alienating Clinton supporters into voting for McCain."
Exactly what I have contended about abusive bloggers "for Obama". With Rush Limbaugh's "operation chaos" there seems to be a lot of dirty tricks up some sleeves.
I have been involved with the Internet almost since its inception. We used to have a saying, especially relating to online flirtations:
"The Internet - Where men are men and women are men".
It was inevitable that such deceits would carry over into politics too.
Jun 4, '08
Plenty of Real Democrats supported Hillary, and you'll be able to tell who they are, because they're the ones who stand up,...
What does that say about the Hillary supporters who were challenged on many occasions to defend her when criticisms were made but who remained mute? Answer: They couldn't?
In one sense I agree with the post. People, almost all, will be looking at the political scene from a different perspective now that Obama is the presumptive nominee for the Democratic party of which I was a temporary member so I could vote for Obama and Novick.
Jun 4, '08
Hillary basically was not as shiny and new as Obama. But her loyal fans loved her. Now they are not happy, kinda bummed, not unlike the Novick fans are. But Hillary will rebound, especially if she gets the VP slot. She will work like a dog to get Obama elected, if she has some skin in the game (ie VP slot), since she knows that 13% of Presidents get there via a death or resignation.
But if she gets slighted by Obama by not getting the VP slot she has earned, she and her whole team will be very dispirited and disappointed. And some will reluctantly vote for Obama, some will stay home and some will vote for McCain out of spite.
Obama's VP choice is a do or die decision for him.
Jun 4, '08
What the heck is this? Does anyone follow this stream of consciousness drivel?
5:46 p.m.
Jun 4, '08
But I think the vast majority of Clinton supporters saying "don't gloat" are just being honest with where they're at right now.
I wish it was that simple, Steven.
But:
1) I don't think the "Clinton supporters" are stopping at "don't gloat,"
2) I don't see anybody gloating (and since I'm not, I take exception), and
3) I've never seen such a visceral reaction, such that everything any of us does is so cynically construed as an attack, in any of the campaigns I've been around to witness in 30+ years of political consciousness, 21 of those with the franchise.
So I can't, and I do not, trust the magnitude of the reaction. These are people I've been through the wars with. To be so self-immolating as to threaten a vote for John McCain in the general?
Nobody I know to be a Democrat would ever dare do that, not after eight years of what we've been through.
I've got to believe, then, that that's either something akin to grief, or it's not the reaction of a true Democrat.
And I'll stand by that until with my own eyes, I truly see 18 million people abandon all they hold dear, and plunge us all into the depths of despair for 4 more years, just because they're angry.
I'd bet my life, that they don't.
6:02 p.m.
Jun 4, '08
"But if she gets slighted by Obama by not getting the VP slot she has earned,"
WTF? You don't earn a VP slot, you are CHOSEN. One thing you definitely don't do is bully the nominee into it.
The chance she'll be the VP choice are almost nil, IMO. There's virtually no upside.
Jun 4, '08
18 million people? Many more than that voted for Hillary and are not enthused by Obama. You may call them prejudicial, or backward hicks, or non-elitist, or feminazis, or whatever. Maybe they just aren't into Barrack.
Just like Gore could not win his own home state, sometimes people don't get all enthused about the same person that you get all enthused about, so they either: vote for the other guy, skip down the ballot until they find a contest that they actually like the person and will vote for them, or maybe skip voting altogether on election day. Multiply that by many millions of Hillary minions, and Obama could be hurting. (And that is all without any more Obama pastors, gaffes or wife's rantings.)
<h1>"I'd bet my life, that they don't."</h1>Please don't bet with your life, it is worth too much. Maybe as an alternative, you can threaten to move away again, like all those Hollywood dingbats threatened (but never acted upon) back in 2000 and 2004. Didn't Susan come out again with such babble?
Jun 4, '08
Totally wrong. Man, what are you smokin this evening?
The upside is that they (he/she) get elected. The downside is that Barrack has to ship Bill off to Siberia (Senate, Supreme, or on a permanent mission to monitor foreign governmental elections) for full containment of The VP Spouse cum Ex-President.
The downside (w/o Hillary on the ticket) is that Barrack has to deal with both McCain and Billary braying from now until Nov on every little (or not so little) gaffe that he makes, with the press now taking a more realistic (vesus fawning) look at who the real Barrack Obama is.
Put down the bong, TJ, and sober up.
7:02 p.m.
Jun 4, '08
18 million people? Many more than that voted for Hillary and are not enthused by Obama.
Actually, the numbers stand somewhere between about 17.5 million people and just over 18 million voting for Senator Clinton, depending on how you count it. I've heard Senator Clinton say 17 million, more than 17 million, and 18 million in her various speeches.
Jun 4, '08
I've got to believe, then, that that's either something akin to grief, or it's not the reaction of a true Democrat.
How about racism, the kind that appeared fairly prevalent in West Virginia and Kentucky? Also, demographic studies indicated that Hillary got the less well educated, and many a good candidate went down because the poorly educated and less intelligent get to vote for the wrong person. As for "Democrat" how would you define that? People who are registered as Democrats come in many flavors, some sweet, some horrid, and the rest in between.
7:21 p.m.
Jun 4, '08
Multiply that by many millions of Hillary minions, and Obama could be hurting. (And that is all without any more Obama pastors, gaffes or wife's rantings.)
That passage, right there, just proved me right. It's almost like one of those puzzles: point out the things in the comment that indicate it's a Republican concern troll.
I'll start:
1) The generally-accepted number of people who cast a vote for Hillary Clinton in the primary was 18 million. Not "many more than that."
2) Your labels, not mine, nor anybody else's. My point stands - real Democrats, however angry they might be, care too much to plunge this nation into Bush's third term. This is much more serious than "I can't have a beer with Al Gore." And even at the height of the nastiness, polls had the percentage of Clinton voters who would close ranks behind Obama if he were the nominee at 45% at least.
3) Barack has one r.
4) Only a Republican would still be piling on Al Gore in 2008.
5) I'm sure thinking people who cast a sincere vote for a worthy candidate love being called minions. No, minions are the Limbaugh trolls trying in vain to hold back this tidal wave; thanks for self-identifying as one of them. Does Rush pay you in oxycontin?
6) If pastors, lapel pins and gotchas are more important to you than healthcare, the environment, and Iraq, no way are you a Democrat.
7) Finally, I got news for you: we're all betting our lives if this country would consider McFourMoreYears.
Thanks for playing, pseud. I can't wait for November.
7:35 p.m.
Jun 4, '08
How about racism, the kind that appeared fairly prevalent in West Virginia and Kentucky? Also, demographic studies indicated that Hillary got the less well educated, and many a good candidate went down because the poorly educated and less intelligent get to vote for the wrong person. As for "Democrat" how would you define that? People who are registered as Democrats come in many flavors, some sweet, some horrid, and the rest in between.
I think the primary answered the racism question, and while some people may have feared pulling the lever for an African-American for President, many, many more did not. Remember, Obama pulled right around 18 million votes, too. Does that mean 18 million of us are misogynists, too?
I'm resisting the cynical take, here. Your point is taken about Democrats in all flavors, but they're still Democrats. The Dixies left with Strom before I was even born.
Jun 4, '08
But if she gets slighted by Obama by not getting the VP slot she has earned
Just wondering, when was the last time that anyone wound up as the VP candidate because he said he had "earned" it?
Per the trolls, the flagrant ones are obvious, others are harder to spot. I also wodner whether, say, the folks writing letters to the editor, claiming to be Clinton supporters who will vote for McCain, are trolls as well.
Sure will be nice when HRC endorses Obama....
Jun 4, '08
Spite is not a tenable position politically. It never produces the desired result in the long run. Hopefully those who so enthusiastically supported Hillary can reflect on what it is that they really wanted to happen this election year.
Start from scratch in the logical sense. Pretend that Hillary never was a candidate. Whomever would vote for McCain or not vote for Obama cannot in all honesty call themself a Democrat regardless of that suggestion.
5:25 a.m.
Jun 5, '08
I wanted Hillary Clinton to be the nominee of my party. However, I will do everything I can now to support Obama. The republican mishandling of government must come to an end. This country can no longer afford the mismanagement that has threatened the future generations.
8:19 a.m.
Jun 5, '08
Thanks Deborah.
Jun 5, '08
"Start from scratch in the logical sense. Pretend that Hillary never was a candidate. Whomever would vote for McCain or not vote for Obama cannot in all honesty call themself (sic) a Democrat regardless of that suggestion."
Hmmm, that's some sound logical thinking.
Let's analize this further:
"Start from scratch in the logical sense. Pretend that Obama never was a candidate. Whomever would vote for McCain or not vote for Hillary cannot in all honesty call themself (sic) a Democrat regardless of that suggestion."
Ahh, yes... much better now.
Or how bout this way:
"Start from scratch in the logical sense. Pretend that McCain never was a candidate. Whomever would vote for Hillary or not vote for Obama cannot in all honesty call themself (sic) a Democrat regardless of that suggestion."
Or maybe this way:
"Start from scratch in the logical sense. Pretend that Gore never was a candidate. Whomever would not vote for Kerry or not vote for Obama cannot in all honesty call themself (sic) a voter regardless of that suggestion."
I like the last one... logically speaking. Kinda like a syllogism.
Jun 5, '08
What the heck is this? Does anyone follow this stream of consciousness drivel?
Amen.
Was this post writen by William Shatner while experiencing severe ADD?
Jun 5, '08
Hillary has neither 'earned' being the VP nor will she be the VP. (as if a wannabe VP can earn & petition our candidate!) Obama is about CHANGING WASHINGTON and NOT about bringing back the past via the Clintons, especially Bill!! This campaign will continue to be about bringing our country forward to the future and not backwards. We and Obama deserve someone as honest and clean as he is, no more dirty backroom politics, racism and corporatism. Bill Clinton can't even pass the smell test much less the intense vetting any VP candidate will be subject to (since we had the crooked Ferraro fiasco!). And Goddess only knows what either Billary blunder they'd come up with next!
Jun 5, '08
wisefemme (probably not, on both accounts) is probably just a Republican troll posing as an Obama apologist misogynist Clinton hating elitist.
Begone with you, Troll!
Jun 5, '08
Let it go Anon. Let it go!
Edwards was my pick at the outset, but primary elections are mostly about cutting losses.
Hillary has not officially conceded, but it's coming. As election law allows, she may continue to raise funds for her campaign (rumored to be over $11 Mil. in personal debt) up until the official candidate is chosen at the convention. Even if she has given up 100% on ever holding any public office ever again, one can hardly blame her for wanting to recover a bit from that! An official concession however would bar her from further fundraising, hence, the 'suspension' of her campaign.
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