Wyden: Torture shouldn't be judged on a "sliding scale"
In an effort to shine the light on the Bush administration's torture tactics, Senator Ron Wyden has released some unclassified correspondence he has had with the Department of Justice.
In the correspondence, the Bush administration claims that the definition of torture depends on what information is being sought. From the New York Times:
While the Geneva Conventions prohibit “outrages upon personal dignity,” a letter sent by the Justice Department to Congress on March 5 makes clear that the administration has not drawn a precise line in deciding which interrogation methods would violate that standard, and is reserving the right to make case-by-case judgments.“The fact that an act is undertaken to prevent a threatened terrorist attack, rather than for the purpose of humiliation or abuse, would be relevant to a reasonable observer in measuring the outrageousness of the act,” said Brian A. Benczkowski, a deputy assistant attorney general, in the letter, which had not previously been made public.
Senator Wyden, who serves on the Intelligence Committee, is concerned that this approach will put American troops at risk the next time that Americans are captured as prisoners of war.
Mr. Wyden said he was concerned that, under the new rules, the Bush administration had put Geneva Convention restrictions on a “sliding scale.”If the United States used subjective standards in applying its interrogation rules, he said, then potential enemies might adopt different standards of treatment for American detainees based on an officer’s rank or other factors.
“The cumulative effect in my interpretation is to put American troops at risk,” Mr. Wyden said.
Read the rest of the New York Times story. There's also excellent coverage in the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal.
Discuss.
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April 28, 2008
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3:15 p.m.
Apr 28, '08
Yeah, the torture thing's only been going on for what?, five or six years now, I'm glad someone's on top of writing letters about it to the DOJ.
Apr 28, '08
The cumulative effect...
One would think, were these concerns based on any kind of rudimentary morality, that the effect of having tortured even one "detainee" would be too much. I guess the Senator has adopted his own sliding scale in this regard. Why else wait this long on this issue? The Senator seems to view his original vote against authorizing the use of military force against Iraq as a sort of non-expiring get out of jail free card regarding culpability for any of the ensuing events.
Apr 28, '08
Can you people read? The Senator and/or his staff uncovered something that was not known or disclosed before this time. That is what generally makes things news (at least that is generally the standard for the top of the front page of the Sunday New York Times).
This means either that Wyden uncovered something that no other member of Congress and no media organization in the world had discovered, and you are criticizing him for it.
Brush the potato chip crumbs off your shirt, loosen the carpal tunnel brace on your wrist, and push away from your computer. And take your meds.
What is wrong with you people?
Apr 28, '08
This means either that Wyden uncovered something that no other member of Congress and no media organization in the world had discovered,
He discovered that torture is a bad idea? Alert the press! Oh, he did.
Apr 28, '08
I don't think that I have ever commented on a blog before, but lmgts, you're my hero.
Apr 28, '08
You appear to be intentionally twisting the relevance of this story. Why?
If I read the article correctly, Wyden discovered that the Bush administration is now saying that whether an "interrogation" crosses the line or not depends on what they claim the objective of the interrogation was. If they claim the intelligence sought has to do with protecting lives, they can torture.
Are you suggesting that he should have kept this information to himself, truffula? It's not Wyden's responsibility to inform the public? It's not his obligation to perform oversight?
Apr 28, '08
It's not his obligation to perform oversight?
Indeed it is. I see you understand my point exactly.
Apr 28, '08
Yes, you just seem to miss the fact that uncovering the administration's wrongdoing and drawing public attention to it kind of meets the definition of oversight. Wyden's neck is way out there on this, the president is going to do everything he can to cover this up and discredit your senator and instead of supporting him, you attack him? No wonder the president keeps getting away with this sh**. Whose side are you on?
Apr 28, '08
No, truffula, I don't get your point.
Being a snarky dipshit when one of our members of Congress does a good job is pretty pointless in my book.
7:32 p.m.
Apr 28, '08
I only have one thing to add here: lmgts, Bravo!!
Apr 28, '08
Why is it that the Geneva Convention seems to be the only treaty mentioned when torture is brought up? There is no "sliding scale" when it comes to torture, it is defined and is against the law according to the Constitution of the United States.
Lets all read along.
11:18 p.m.
Apr 28, '08
BOHICA, thanks.
truffula and darrel, this is a response to a specific letter dated March 5 this year. You may recall that there was a Justice Department justification authored by John Yoo for torture & various other crimes under alleged plenary presidential powers as commander-in-chief for a period, and that supposedly that justification was withdrawn some time later.
This letter shows that the ostensible withdrawal of that kind of justification was a charade.
It also shows that justification of torture is current policy being promulgated under A.G. Mukasey (thanks Chuck Schumer!)
Bringing it forward now is important. Among other things it puts it out in the open as an issue in the presidential campaign, one on which we should demand clarity from all candidates.
If Wyden is becoming more aggressive in putting things into the open, that can only be good going forward. Rather than attack him when he's doing the right thing, we should look for others who still are not, and hold up his example to demand better from them.
Among other things, the Democratic congressional leadership is working on bringing forth a proposal for a "supplemental" funding the Iraq occupation past inauguration day next year -- in other words, they want to take the issue of Democratic unwillingness to push Bush on ending the war off the table. The fact of continued torture policy by the administration in violation of international law and the U.S. constitution via treaties signed and ratified that comprise that international law is a reason to demand that the leadership approach be rejected.
Apr 28, '08
Wyden deserves BIG THANKS for stepping out on this issue. The list of elected officials willing to call the Bush administration on its immoral, treasonous and criminal torture policy is too short. The Constitution needs to be pulled out of the Bushies' shredder, taped back together and used again. The sooner, the better.
Apr 29, '08
This torture stuff pales in comparison to the Wright controversy - wrong. The media has lost all perspective, thus our Congressman has to do their job.
Apr 29, '08
This torture stuff pales in comparison to the Wright controversy - wrong. The media has lost all perspective, thus our Senator has to do their job.
May 2, '08
I don't know why anyone would be upset about what Wyden has done here - it is absolutely necessary that we have Senators like Wyden, who are willing to go against the status quo and stick their necks out. It's sickening how much disdain the Bush Cartel has not only for the constitution, but for its own citizens. And it's not only that torture is wrong, but imprisoning people for 6 years without any charges being filed, without any due process....well, it sounds a lot like the policies of the KGB. This is American, not 50s Russia, and we need to demand a return to sanity.
May 2, '08