Why don't they just put up a statue and call it good!

I found it interesting that Leonard indicated he would have supported the renaming of Interstate if the renaming committee had agreed to a broader process. That process would have explored at least five streets, with public input and hearings on all the options, and if they had still come back with Interstate he would have voted yes. One has to wonder if the renaming committee didn't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by taking a hard-line stance.

Pat, your logic is miguided at best.

Hey – the new plaza going up next to the Fox Tower, -- does it have an official name yet?

How Chavez Plaza? Maybe a nice statue to go along?

Hey, they finally came to their senses. Chavez didn't deserve a street in Portland, he just isn't that important. Neither was Rosa Parks but I guess that is water under the bridge.

The council has a process that should work in theory, not sure why they don't actually use it. Rather than pandering to whatever group brings them an idea they are supposed to kick it over to a group that studies the merits and provides input. Chavez wouldn't make the cut list if the process was run correctly since he just wasn't that big of impact in either Portland history or American history.

Here's an idea.

Portland has a process already in place for renaming streets.

Why not just follow it?

Since I don't live in Portland and never have; and don't know a whole lot about the street/neighborhood/ethnic make up of the place you might think I'm out of line, but my wife spent most of her life through her mid-30s there and her suggestion was the same as Pat's when I asked where wouldn't it get big push-back.

Nobody really cares what a street in a new subdivision is named, as long as it isn't something like "Dogpile Lane" but long established street names in an older city gain a status that is not easily overcome. 4th Ave has no particular loading, Chavez does, and toss in Chinatown which has a definite social loading and you get...this. SW 181st is inappropriate why? A lot of it isn't very nice - I know that one a bit - but MLK has neighborhoods that have quite a few crime reports.

I've lived in a place where about the only white thing about Washington St was the name, and frankly that President should be ashamed of such a street's existence. There are social realities that don't go away because of some "feel good" thinking, if you want a street named Chavez then it might be a good idea to not beat your head against a wall.

Me, I don't like street changes, maps get messed up, and if you have an investment in address oriented publications they become wastepaper. Phone books are wrong and people will give you directions with a street that no longer exists. For pete's sake, name something that doesn't put out everybody on a street and raise issues that don't really exist. Racism comes up first, what is racist about not wanting your street re-named? Why is it important that it be done? It has to do with race? Well, neither 4th nor Interstate have any racist overtones. A race isn't "honored?" The ethnic Chinese have been in the NW longer than the Hispanics and had more to do with the developement of the NW and been treated considerably worse and where is their street? Well there you go. This is exactly what happens.

Not wanting to start war, but everyone can benefit from seeing Cesar Chavez's name and remembering how hard it is for laborers all over the country and in Oregon.

Well said, Karol. I still hope we can have a Cesar Chavez avenue/blvd/street in Portland sometime soon. Chavez was a great American who has had an impact on pretty much anyone who consumes the bounty from our farms.

There's something inherently unpleasant in one group of people deciding that they're going to start renaming streets and landmarks in another group of people's neighborhoods... even if everyone involved is of identical ethnic, religious, and sexual identities.

Renaming anything only makes sense when a group of people get together and ask the city or county to change something in their own backyards. Sometimes a whole city can get together and do that; other times neighborhoods do it. Then it's appropriate and should be fairly non-controversial.

That said, let me suggest that anyone who's serious about honoring Cesar Chavez with a street should consider NE Airport Way, in which case everybody who inquired about PDX or who arrived there would be aware that the City of Portland chose to honor him in a major way. Frankly, I'd rather save that street for somebody whose contributions were specifically to Portland and/or Oregon... but, hey, to get all this name-calling and nastiness out of the way I'd go for it in a Vancouver minute.

Hey! There's a thought. How 'bout we rename Vancouver?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...

The Joker from the Batman franchise would be having a big laugh at this while he plans to spray poison gas from street cars and fountains around Pioneer Square.

What we see now is reverse racism, which exposes racism for what it really is, a euphemism for socio-economic class conflict. City Hall was only turned back by a fierce (and multi-racial) backlash from the people of North Portland. Yet it only took a few days to retreat from "done deal" on SW Fourth to "no deal" once they ran head first into the power of established business interests (whether Anglo, Chinese, or African American).

I knew there wasn't a single City Commish with a big enough walnut tree to run head first into that nutcracker. The real lesson here? NoPo was poor, so they thought they could force it through. Downtown is rich, so they turned tail and ran like Hell.

Let's not forget how these guys voted in the first place, folks.

Absolutely nobody (!!) should be mocking the people who died in the Flanders during WWI. You want to name a street after something meaningful, call it, Menin Gates Memorial Avenue. That would have some real meaning. Don't insult the dead over something you know nothing about.

Pat, your little joke about Ned Flanders and "WWI, who knows...?" was innocent, but obscene. Those men lived waiste deep in mud, blood, shit, lice and corpses with little hope of waking up to a new dawn for weeks at a time. Maybe war is just a John Wayne movie to you. Maybe your family tree didn't lose a few limbs from that conflagration, but mine did, so fuck off!

Read "A Storm In The Flanders" by Winston Groom, author of "Forrest Gump." Try not to cry.

Cesar Chavez is a labor hero, a champion of the working class, a member of the grassroots public that resolutely stood up for the little guy. It's to his credit, in part, that the integrity of the american agricultural industry's treatment of its workers improved. These are the kind of things that hard working, fair-minded people recognize and appreciate above and beyond concerns related to ethnic identity. If there's a good argument for renaming Interstate Ave as Cesar Chavez Ave, this is it.

"...he(Chavez) just isn't that important. Neither was Rosa Parks..." Andy

Rosa Parks not that important? ?? Why thank you Andy, for that great, wizened opinion.

Lestatdelc, after I posted and read my comment, it occurred to me that I might have added an additional sentence to the last paragraph, something like;'Any additional credit arising from the efforts of Chavez related to his ethnic background is gravy for the Hispanic, Latino, Mexican community'. Really though, I would have thought that this would be obvious, so I'm glad I didn't include such a sentence.

It may very well be true that the majority of the emphasis for renaming Interstate as Chavez had to do with Cesar Chavez ethnicity. Maybe it's just my own personal thinking, but if so, I think this is unwise. MLK blvd wasn't named so from its former designation as Union Ave just because MLK was a black guy.

Former Union Avenue was renamed in honor of Martin Luther King because he was and continues to be a hugely important figure in american society whose beliefs, efforts and accomplishments reinforce fundamental principles laid out in the U.S. Constitution in a manner that inspires people of all ethnic and class origins. Did the renaming committee understand this as it applies to the work of Cesar Chavez and what that might have meant to the community around Interstate?

I still also kind of wonder, like Kari Chisholm, why the renaming committee was so fixated on Interstate Ave for the renaming. The most I can recollect from someone'e comment on this blog, was that city hall provided them with a list of names from which to choose, and they focused on the one on the list that happened to be Interstate.

Had a discussion today with my mother about the renaming idea. Now we're talking old school: "It's a total waste of money...no person is significant enough to justify the costs associated with renaming an existing named street", then on to "Shouldn't be teaching mexican kids in spanish...they should be learning the language if they want to live here", "Shouldn't be allowed to think they can have Mexico here", and on and on and on. I don't think this sort of thing is racism per se, but I think it represents a certain insensitivity that can lead to big problems for a society.

I vote for re-naming Airport Way for Mr. Chavez. It goes through what was a lot of fields that made produce with lots of immigrant labor.

I am sure that the city council could work with the Port of Portland on this one.

I am continually amazed at the arrogance and stupidity shown in many of these posts. With petty bickering and uneducated people like this we don't deserve to win any elections in 2008.

I think one could make an argument there are several other major streets that should have been considered.

I think that same argument could be made for Rosa Parks Boulevard couldn't it? And Naito Boulevard?

The fact is that a group of Latino's chose a street, asked the city to rename it and was met with oppostiion, including ethnic attacks, from both their black and white neighbors. Is it surprising they would dig in their heels? Shouldn't they? Doesn't it say something about Portland that the bigots won this argument?

This blog would be filled with discussions about Chaves (sic) that I would be sharing with my daughter.

Who is this Chaves you keep referring to? Do you think people can't see your consistent misspelling of Cesar Chavez name as being deliberately disrespectful?

Of course that might run counter to your own preconceived notions about all of us ignorant racists in this thread, so don't let facts get in the way.

No one has called you ignorant. Your own comments call you out as racist.

Spelling the name "Chaves" could as likely come from having lived or spent time in countries where........that's the way you actually spell "Chavez" which is an English attempt at interperetation.

Cesar Chavez was born in the United States and spelled his name, in both Spanish and English - Chavez. He enlisted in the United States Navy under the name Chavez. No attempt at "interpretation" required. Why would you intentionally use a foreign spelling of his name?

"Cesar Estrada Chavez was born March 31, 1927 near Yuma, Arizona." Spectrum Biographies

Cesar Chavez was an American. Did Chavez himself ever spell his last name with an 's' on the end instead of a 'z'?

On another subject, from Doretta's comment:

"My observation is that what hardened the committee's stance on Interstate was the was the disrespect they got when they went to the community to talk about it. The virulent racism was part of that and the rest of the community's failure to confront or even acknowledge the virulent racism was an even bigger part. More subtle but in many ways the hardest of all to to take was the sense that kept coming from the rest of the community that when we say "us" about our community we don't include our Latino neighbors. Even the committee members who live only a few blocks from Interstate were treated as outsiders trying to usurp what is "ours"--as in the slogan of the organized opposition "Save Our Interstate"." Doretta

I feel like this observation helps to reveal a key point where the renaming committee screwed up. "...the rest of the community's failure to confront or even acknowledge the virulent racism...". Is it clearly established that the rest of the community did not consider the various individual racist outbursts from some of their fellow community members to be racist in nature?

The community might be faulted for not condemning those community members that indulged their personal racist inclination. Perhaps the renaming committee or some other group or organization should have spent time to work to help the community understand the kind of shadow that passivity in the face of stark racism could cast upon their community. It might be true, but it's kind of hard to believe that the entirety of North Portland is heavily biased against Latino's, hispanics, mexicans, and would happily allow the obnoxious outbursts of a few racist boneheads to represent the entire community.

Even assuming they understand the appalling effects of racism and are opposed to racism, it doesn't seem necessarily fair that Interstate be named for Chavez simply because North Portland has a significant population of Latinos. The Interstate community, North Portland, or whoever is entitled to have a voice in the renaming of a street in that area, may have perfectly legitimate reasons for objecting to the name change. Those reasons should be considered with the same level of seriousness as the idea of renaming a street after a notable person.

This whole issue has nothing to do with racism or ethnic divides. What happened is that Potter, under his own initiative, promised something to a group of people because he thought he had enough clout to bully it through and get it done without any problems.

The way he is acting now shows he is regretting this promise of appeasement.

Fred -

I will have to pass, but thanks for the offer. You are right. This has been worn out.

Why not rename NE Alberta Street to Cesar Chavez Street? At least it used to have a bit of a concentration of Hispanic businesses....

I agree with a lot that you say Doretta, but hope you aren't selling the people in your community short. I like to think that if the rename committee had tried to sell the community on renaming Interstate to Chavez in no small part because he is a grass roots working class hero that happens to be of Hispanic descent, the idea might have eventually took, although not certainly. Aren't people expecting an awful lot in a very short time frame from this community that seems to have been inert for years and years?

It's not like that neighborhood has been a hotbed of activism and progressive ideas has it? There may be a lot of people in the neighborhood that hate the racist crap, but aren't accustomed to speaking out, especially in public. So the loud mouthed drunken white power idiots show up for kicks at the community meetings and smear the entire neighborhood. It's not the first time that sort of thing has happened.

Doesn't it say something about Portland that the bigots won this argument?

There you go again, Ross, labeling all those opposed to the renaming as bigots. Sigh It shouldn't be a mystery as to why this effort failed, if the renaming committee acted like Ross even half the time.

As to whether or not the North Portland community responded appropriately to the few racists who yelled cowardly remarks from the back of the room, I guess I wonder why we're giving those assholes so much power? How is it that a few inbreds could disrupt the entire process simply by saying hateful words? It appears that those remarks sent the renaming committee into such a rage that it was unwilling to compromise on any aspect of the renaming, which is why they lost my support and, more importantly, Randy Leonard's.

Agreed Miles. With race baiters like Ross and Doretta slinging accusations left and right, it's no wonder why some whites got defensive. Way to poison the atmosphere. Graduates of the Tom Potter School of Politics, no doubt.

And isn't it nice how how they excoriate residents of Overlook and other neighborhoods around Interstate for not speaking out forcefully enough against a handful of loud mouths in the back of the room, yet completely ignore the open bigotry displayed by members of the renaming committee and their supporters? I guess what's good for the goose ain't so good for the gander....

As far as I'm concerned, the bigotry and contempt for the democratic process that the renaming committee and their supporters displayed has thoroughly poisoned this well. It will be years before we can revisit the subject.

The real issue in Portland is that City government is failing in the processes that it should be using to engage a cross section of citizens from different backgrounds that encompasses all classes of people, those both for and against the issue at hand. The decision making process is broken, has lost its democratic roots and become that of a socialist agenda managed by those in charge who are often influenced by affluent developers and property owners. Whether it is renaming a street, adding streetcars, bicycle infrastructure and safety, ethanol in gasoline, locking up spray paint, replacing or refurbishing the Sellwood Bridge, green building, sustainability, etc, it is all the same. An idea is born, a stacked deck advisory committee often with the usual suspects of those who serve on just about every other citizen advisory group in town is formed to tweak the details and rubber stamp the preconceived agenda, sometimes the public is offered a survey with only the questions and option choices that can be manipulated to render support for the preconceived agenda, and only then is the public asked for input at public meetings and/or council hearings In the case of the renaming process, the masquerade backfired when the manipulation of the citizenry hit the fan attempting to change what has become a historical brand name for the livelihood of the people who live and work on or near Interstate Avenue. The Mayor and the group supporting the name change attempted to play the race card, but all that did was fan the flames of those against the idea. The bottom line is; the public needs to become involved at the beginning of processes, not as window dressing at the tail end, and that includes more than just renaming streets.

Doretta, I must say again, you are right on mark. I hope people read your last comment (doretta | Nov 23, 2007 7:40:58 PM) with open eyes, minds, and hearts.

The mayor gets what you have said, and that is why he held his position without wavering--the rest of the council, eh, not so much.

"What I saw instead is that we in the community (and here on BlueOregon) tend to believe that if something isn't important to us then by definition it can't be important--there's a picture of that attitude in the dictionary next to the definition of "white privilege", I believe." Doretta, Nov 23, 2007 7:40:58 PM

I don't even see how you could make that generalization in reference to comments as a whole made on this thread, and on related others here on blueoregon in regards to the renaming issue. Certainly, amongst all comments made on those threads, without searching through and counting them, some of the people commenting seemed to express bias and unfairness, but to me, the majority seemed very thoughtful and balanced in their remarks.

That they are balanced and reasonable even when not always in favor seems reasonable, because though obviously there are those individuals that would like a prompt resolution to their immediate concerns, as it turns out, this is a very complex issue.

The act of naming a city street after a significant Latino hero may be important, but just how important is that specific act and how does one gauge it? A poll of some sort? When compared to other issues related to Latino, hisanic, mexican progress in Portland, how important is the renaming of a street for a significant Latino person?

I'd imagine quite a number of blueoregon's audience and participants likely recognize mexicans importance to Portland as well as Oregon as a whole. It logically follows that they would likely recognize at least some of the significance to hispanics that renaming of a prominent Portland street for a noted hispanic person would mean to this group. In the overall scheme of things though, I believe a lot of reasonably minded people amongst them recognized that the timing was not right, rather than having concluded that the possible renaming of Interstate to Chavez was not important to Hispanics.

Doretta, you wrote this earlier today: It's possible the discussion could get interesting if you would talk to me (and others) rather than merely emoting at the person you imagine me (us) to be.

Yet two days ago you wrote: . . . a couple dozen people spent hundreds of hours of their time and kept coming back in the face of a great deal of unpleasantness for no other reason than that it is important to them. We reconcile that by concluding that the committee is a stupid lot of screwups who probably have hidden agendas and bad intentions.

By asserting that we must think the committee has hidden agendas and bad intentions, aren't you "emoting at the person you imagine us to be" rather than actually listening to what we are saying?

I think the renaming committee screwed up by becoming obstinate and arrogant and refusing compromise of any kind. I don't believe they have hidden agendas or bad intentions. The reality is that had they been willing to compromise on process rather than making a power play, it's very likely that Interstate would have been successfully renamed in honor of Chavez. As it turns out, we're left with nothing. And that really is too bad.

Karin: The fact that your husband "held his position without wavering" in the face of public outcry against the process that he set up does not show leadership or loyalty, it shows arrogance in the face of failure. He led the renaming committee to defeat, and it is not something that he should be proud of.

Karin (comment at Nov 25, 2007 10:21:09 AM) is the mayor's wife? Oh. Nice. This is just too weird. Karin, or Mrs Potter, please share with us exactly what it is that Doretta said that Mayor Potter gets. Many people have been scratching their heads pondering the question of how it is that he could make such a mess of the renaming effort if he gets it. Does Mayor Potter really think that the whole issue of renaming Interstate Ave to Cesar Chavez would have smoothed out if city council had simply approved the name change? Please at least tell us that he was concerned it would smooth out.

"The mayor gets what you (Doretta) have said, and that is why he held his position without wavering--the rest of the council, eh, not so much." Karin

The process was started by racists which is why it became bogged down in racial overtones. Just think about what would happen if some white power folks went to Potter and asked for a street named after an important white power leader. He would kick them out of his office. But when some Latino activist demand a street name for one of "their" leaders, he caves. Hey, double standards all around! And then idiot Potter starts to use the racist label for anyone who dares question him. He starts the discussion as race based and then throws the race card! Too funny. Potter proved that he is a complete moron with this gaff. His support from the other council members evaporated as soon as he pulled the terrible two tantrum and walked off the stage. That was classic stuff right out of a 6th grade student council meeting!

It wasn't started by racists, Andy. It was started by Potter who wrongfully thought that he could appease and promise a group with something he really could not deliver on and try to bully it through the council without any problems. The racism was after the fact because, to some people, "if your against us, you are automatically a racist". To some people, gray areas do not exist and that is why we have problems.

Just think about what would happen if some white power folks went to Potter and asked for a street named after an important white power leader. He would kick them out of his office. But when some Latino activist demand a street name for one of "their" leaders, he caves.

Um, Andy, if you don't understand the difference between Cesar Chavez and a white supremacist, you should go back to your cave. Chavez achieved positive change through political activism and non-violence. White supremacists try to achieve negative change through anarchy and violence.

Any effort to honor a white supremacist should be summarily dismissed. That's not a double standard, it's knowing the difference between right and wrong and acting accordingly.

Acknowledging the realities of our racist/sexist society is not racist.

Actually it is when you use that reality to make sweeping generalizations about any group based solely on stereotypes that you associate with their race or gender. In the paragraph above, you make bigoted, racist assumptions about ALL white males. Would you ever, EVER, write such a sentence about people of color? Of course not, you would be much more nuanced and exact. So why is it that you'll make sweeping generalizations about white people, and why are those statements any less racist than sweeping generalizations about people of color?

I agree with you that many white people do not face discrimination. But some do, and others seek to understand discrimination. I won't agree with where you seem to be going, that the opinions of white people (and particularly males) on issues of race should be devalued because they "can't understand" the difficulties of discrimination. That kind of identity-based politics is not only wrong, it's dangerous. Every person needs to be listened to based on what they are actually saying, not viewed through the prism of their skin color or gender.

So to bring this back on-topic, it's racist to discount the opinions of white males on the Chavez street-renaming simply because they're white males. And your continuing attempts to do so are no better than the anti-Latino slurs yelled by racists at the community meetings.

"Acknowledging the realities of our racist/sexist society..." "white-boy clueless" Doretta

Those phrases are simple-minded intimidation strategy. Easy for some people to throw that crap around when things don't go their way. Just like Mayor Potter having a snitfit and walking out on council chambers. Is it supposed to be hip or something to spout that kind of MTV stuff?

Someday, after Hispanics have been in and involved with the Interstate neighborhoods long enough to clearly have been established as a part of those neighborhoods, the idea of a street within that neighborhood named or even re-named from an existing named street, after a notable hispanic person may happen on its own accord with the support of the entire neighborhood. In the meantime, the failed force-fed strategy to rename and the follow-up miscategorization attempts on the part of bitter ranaming committee members is just poison in the well.

Persuade, persuaded, persuadable, persuasive....whew!! All those usages of a word that indicate someone with an entrenched viewpoint they will not relinquish even when bare reality countering their viewpoint stares them right in the face. Why not put a little more energy into trying to understand other peoples' situation before attempting to arbitrarily impose a change upon them that is not particularly relative to their experience or in their best interest?

<h2>There are too many people in this world that want to flex their muscles and bully their way around the world.</h2>