A bottle deposit is not a tax.
Darrel Plant has been getting spammed by some astroturf group calling themselves "Oregonians for Real Recycling".
I have to admit I'm appalled at the tactics of a group calling itself "Oregonians for Real Recycling", which is casting the deposit proposal as "a tax on products like bottled water!" (their exclamation point) and calling it the "water bottle tax" bill. It's not a tax. ...Really, this is just blatantly deceptive advertising. And I've gotten four of their emails in the past day.
As for who these "Oregonians" really are, visit DarrelPlant.com to read the rest and see the email.
Since he doesn't have comments, feel free to discuss here.
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May 23, 2007
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connect with blueoregon
6:29 p.m.
May 23, '07
I guess a video store, or car rental, or hotel is charging a "tax" when they have you put down a refundable deposit before renting.
May 23, '07
Oregonians would do well to presume that any group names "Oregonians for ..." is very likely not really Oregonians at all - or at the very least, they're almost never a group of everyday Oregon citizens, but rather a very few individuals you wouldn't believe if they used their actual names.
May 23, '07
Why don't we call bottle deposits what they really are, how bums make a living off of my money. I admit that I live a rather utilitarian lifestyle where I don't have the room to store a black bag full of empty beer bottles and empty water bottles. Henceforth, I throw them in the blue recycling bins where there are always bums rummaging through the cans looking to make a buck off of my hard earned money.
The real question is how many bums do we want to attract to Portland and Oregon? For all of those who want to pass a new bottle bill, I propose that you "put your money where your mouth is" and lobby town hall to put another Dignity Village in your neighborhood. Oh but no, like most, you will lobby for something as long the undesirable after effects are "not in my backyard" (NIMBY).
I can see it now, a Dignity Village in the West Hills, a Dignity Village in Goose Hollow, a Dignity Village in the South Waterfront, and you get the picture.
May 23, '07
Dear YoungOregonVoter:
If you truly believe that bottles which carry a deposit actually attract bums to a region, then it is you who are at fault for the arrival of those bums: You are deliberately leaving something which has value out at the curb in a refuse/recycling bin, which by law is free for the taking.
If you do not wish to have "bums" on your property, do not leave items of value lying around for free out at the curb.
Very simple. Take direct personal responsibility for your actions. :-P
6:53 p.m.
May 23, '07
The funny this is that I'm not the one being spammed -- my husband is.
The only political newsletters he gets are some from Texas. I'd originally signed him up for Republican Party stuff back in the late 90s so we could see what was going out. He voted in the R primaries (there's no party registration), so they had no reason to suspect anything.
But we never got any e-mails.
It wasn't until the last few months that we started receiving stuff from the woman who ran for Tom DeLay's spot as the R's write in candidate. Then stuff rom John Cornyn, one of the state's two Republican U.S. Senators, started arriving.
Now he's getting spammed by this group. There's probably be close to 10 e-mail already in a period of about 24 hours.
Seeing as he isn't signed up for anything else in any way political under that e-mail address (it's used on the Star Wars site, a few computer related sites he uses to keep up-to-date on things, etc.), it makes me wonder why he's the one receiving the e-mails.
7:00 p.m.
May 23, '07
That's right. You can always donate your cans to a local church, school, etc. Your local fire department might want them as well. There are plenty of organizations that would happily take the cans off your hands. They use the funds for a variety of uses. I know our church uses them for things like helping the youth afford to go to summer church camp. Schools may use them to pay for supplies, field trips, or their playground.
We return our cans ourselves. It's not that big of a hassle.
<hr/>You're right that it isn't "Oregonians." It is grocery stores, beer and soda companies, and a few Republicans.
From their own web site:
Oregonians for Real Recycling is:
8:27 p.m.
May 23, '07
They rocked the inboxes at the Capitol today, as well. It really does seem pretty half-assed compared to other disengenuously named astroturf-type groups. It's funny both that like six of their 40 members are Coca-Cola and that Anheuser Busch is an Oregonian.
May 23, '07
admit that I live a rather utilitarian lifestyle where I don't have the room to store a black bag full of empty beer bottles and empty water bottles.
So what are you complaining about? That you have to pay to for the convenience of disposing of your bottles in the recycling? Grow up and take responsibility for yourself.
9:08 p.m.
May 23, '07
And who says you have to have a big black bag filled with cans/bottles?
I see a lot of people returning small numbers of cans and bottles all the time.
If you only do it a few times a month, it adds up. But if you take the cans/bottles with you every time you go to the store, it can be a small number of returns. Many I see are only carrying a store bag filled with cans, two six-pack bottle containers, etc.
May 24, '07
"Why don't we call bottle deposits what they really are, how bums make a living off of my money." YoungOregonVoter
YoungOregonVoter, from some of your comments made here and there, I could have sworn you were more intelligent than someone who would make a statement like that, but nah, it seems you're just a jerk and a clod.
Guys like you that lose a job or their inheritance sometimes find themselves with a firsthand opportunity to find out exactly what kind of living can be made rounding up cans for deposits.
Calling deposits on bottled water containers a tax on bottled water is just nuts. The deposit is for the container, not the contents. Just how intelligent does a person have to be to understand that? In any area where tap water is as good as it is here in Multnomah or Washington counties, with the exception of emergencies and special circumstances, bottled water ought to genuinely be taxed in addition to the container deposit, just to discourage people from buying that crap.
Deposits on containers in addition to those containing carbonated drinks is a smart, logically correct thing to do. If "bums" are willing to hustle around gathering nasty sticky old cans for some kind of a living, I'm encouraging them. It's a job, and a job is a job, certainly requiring more effort and initiative than sitting around on one's backside. As an additional bonus, it would seem as though the "bums" method of recycling; on foot, or bicycle, is probably more efficient than that big diesel truck that drives around picking up recyclables at people's curbside.
May 24, '07
with the exception of emergencies and special circumstances, bottled water ought to genuinely be taxed in addition to the container deposit, just to discourage people from buying that crap.
Who appointed you keeper of the judgement of quality and of the right thing to do? Sounds like the basic problem with censorship: who is to be the censor?
You are trying to impose you beliefs on others, just a surely as George Bush is trying to impose his religion on others. Are you any better than George III?
Deposits on containers in addition to those containing carbonated drinks is a smart, logically correct thing to do. So is worshiping George’s god! Are you trying to be yet another petty, Bush style, god.
Thanks Jk
May 24, '07
Karlock, you're a barrel of laughs. The reams of rhetorical ephemera you regularly let fly are a continuing source of amazement.
As for any comments I've made today or in the past, they're just opinions. I'm fully confident in the ability of most people to figure that out on their own, and to make their own minds up about what it is that is right or wrong regarding what that they refer to. Maybe you're not one of them. Just try and remember Karlock, they're just opinions.
Finally, to respond to your suggestion that worshipping Wrongway George's god is a smart, logically correct thing to do? Oh please!...enough!..enough!
May 24, '07
Karlock, you're a barrel of laughs. The reams of rhetorical ephemera you routinely let fly are a continuing source of amazement.
As for any comments I've made today or in the past, they're just opinions. I'm fully confident in the ability of most people to figure that out on their own, and to make their own minds up about what it is that is right or wrong regarding what that they refer to. Maybe you're not one of them.
Finally, to respond to your suggestion that worshipping Wrongway George's god is a smart, logically correct thing to do? Oh please!...enough!..enough!
May 24, '07
Hmmm, I've recyled for years; not to get the deposit back, but because it is the right thing to do.
Which is more evironmentally responsible? Placing ALL recyclables in the bin at your home (including the beverage containers w/the 5 cent deposit) Or, driving the carbon based fuel vehicle down to the store (Hoping all along that the disgusting machines will acccept the cans and bottles)
May 24, '07
YoungOregonVoter, The "bum" quotient could be cut by about 30% if the VA budget was properly funded.
The first line could read "Iraqi" vet with a cardboard sign just as well.
Support the troops, leave your cans and bottles for them to pick up.
May 24, '07
Young Oregon Voter,
It might do you good to get to know some of the PEOPLE collecting your cans and at Dignity Village. You could learn a lot from some of them, especially about heart.
May 24, '07
nutmeg:
Although I appreciate your concern about increasing your carbon footprint making a special trip to drive recyclables to the store, the simple answer would be to combine your shopping trips with your recycling returns.
I agree, though, that some of the recycle machines can be pretty grody. I know many grocers hate the bottle bill (look at the sponsor list for the ad campaign). The grocers probably aren't highly motivated to keep their recycle centers clean...
As for YOV, perhaps if the return on bottles and cans were more than 5 or 10 cents per, he might be more motivated return them rather than dump them into his sidewalk recycle bin.
I don't agree with his premise that deposits attract "bums". As others have stated, he is his own solution to that "problem".
May 24, '07
Young Oregon Voter:
I wouldn't call them bums - they are more like parasites. They are all over and you can't get rid of them. Recycling them somewhere away from your house will help rid you of them.
May 24, '07
All I know is that nobody really cares about the deposit, on those things where we have it now. The trash I see, in the form of bottles, is nearly all non-deposit stuff. There is a whole lot of it today and it all came about from the fruit drinks and water.
The only people, who consider this a tax, are those planning to not return their garbage.
1:36 p.m.
May 24, '07
We never make a special trip just to return cans/bottles. My husband runs them through the machines while I shop. Then we put those returns towards groceries.
The stores don't complain about returning a large number of cans when you're getting groceries as opposed to cash.
May 24, '07
Actually Jenni, there is an oregon law (forced by the grocers) that prohibits the consumer from redeeming more that 144 cans/bottles per day per person - and some stores are really unflexable on that point whether or not you are shopping for groceries at the same time you are redeeming the items.
1:50 p.m.
May 24, '07
Eric--
I know. Whenever we've tried to do more than 144 and get cash, we've had to break it down and do some from me, some from my husband, etc. The law was pushed by the stores, as they didn't want to encourage people bringing in large amounts of cans, especially those who pick them up from around town.
But in the same stores we've never had the problem when we're getting groceries.
I try not to wait so long that there's that many, though. I try to get them returned once a week so it doesn't take near as long to go through the return area.