I'd like them to send two constitutional amendments to the voters: one to repeal the corporate kicker from the constitution, and one to repeal the individual kicker.

Or in the alternative, to have each kicker feed a trust/stability fund.

I am so fed up with these tyrannical dictators. They try to cram their religion of super density down our throats, are trying to screw generational landowners out of their property rights and now the kicker tax is at risk. I am never going to pay my income taxes agin. It's my own personal Boston Tea Party. Go to hell State of Oregon!!!

Well, this is long overdue. The kicker is such a ridiculous phenomenon anyways -- that if the state fails to predict the future properly, taxpayers get a refund -- that it has only been a question of when, not if, it would get fixed.

As to whether the savings are used for a rainy day fund or something else, I think that as long as the "something else" is a one-time capital expense, and not an operational expense, it should be OK. Maybe some of the money could be used to endow a health reform plan?

What is ridiculous about it? The fact that the state has to (gasp) give up some money to the taxpayers? The government workers are a greedy and lazy bunch - they benefit from our taxes but then we get nothing from them. What do the taxpayers ever get from the damn state unless they are "needy" or are illegal Mexicans?

Well you're part of the problem if you believe the asinine B.S. they are feeding you all the time. What good is the government unless you are a government worker living off the fat of the system? PERS account, vacations galore, they line their own pockets. I am not paying income taxes ever again! This is my declaration of independence from the this stupid nefarious State!

Don't worry GT--you can renounce your Oregon citizenship when the State of Jefferson declares its independence...which should be any day now...

Torridjoe, I didn't realize this "damn state" gave us:

Roads-we haven't gained hardly one mile of new roads in this state for fourty years.

Bridges-what bridges, please count the bridges we have gained in the past thirty years.

Hospitals-what state hospitals?

Police and Firefighters-well, I'll give you that we have state police that has been reduced by over 50% in the last two decades; but what state firefighters?

Loans-tell me where I can get a loan from the state, I need one to pay my state taxes.

I'm also trying to figure out how you got tyrannical and dictatorial leaders

That would be the voters. This guy obviously hates democracy.

This is my declaration of independence from the this stupid nefarious State!

You have the freedom to live elsewhere. Use it.

There are many, many services that we all use which receive state funds. The bulk of those being public safety and education.

Prisons, because the voters (the "tyrannical dictators" of this state, as GT calls them) ordered the state to spend a lot more tax money building prisons.

Schools, because those tyrannical, dictatorial voters ordered the legislature to dramatically increase the spending of state income tax money on K-12 education, at the same time they ordered deep cuts in local property tax rates.

On topic: My guess is that asking the voters to repeal the corporate kicker is a no-brainer. We just need to be sure the money should be sequestered against a rainy day, and not easily raided to avoid hard choices when budgeting.

Asking voters to trade away the individual kicker is more of a long shot. I think it depends on how we ask the question. Instead of repealing it, amend it. Ask voters if surplus revenues should be returned as tax rebates (the status quo) or invested in a permanent endowment for education (the proposed amendment). I think there's a fair chance that a majority would support "education endowment."

I also wonder: is the kicker we have in the constitution even legal? Voters were asked to add both the individual and corporate kicker to the constitution as a single ballot measure. It's pretty obvious that they are two different things, and that a voter might approve of one but not the other. Lumping them into a single measure may be in violation of the (now fairly strict) one-subject, one-vote rule that the appellate courts have been enforcing in recent years. If someone had the standing to challenge it -- they might be able to knock both kickers out of the state constitution. We'd still have both kickers, but they would be statutes subject to amendment or repeal by the legislature -- which is where these sorts of things properly belong.

I'm also trying to figure out how you got tyrannical and dictatorial leaders

That would be the voters. This guy obviously hates democracy.

This is my declaration of independence from the this stupid nefarious State!

You have the freedom to live elsewhere. Use it.

There are many, many services that we all use which receive state funds. The bulk of those being public safety and education.

Prisons, because the voters (the "tyrannical dictators" of this state, as GT calls them) ordered the state to spend a lot more tax money building prisons.

Schools, because those tyrannical, dictatorial voters ordered the legislature to dramatically increase the spending of state income tax money on K-12 education, at the same time they ordered deep cuts in local property tax rates.

On topic: My guess is that asking the voters to repeal the corporate kicker is a no-brainer. We just need to be sure the money should be sequestered against a rainy day, and not easily raided to avoid hard choices when budgeting.

Asking voters to trade away the individual kicker is more of a long shot. I think it depends on how we ask the question. Instead of repealing it, amend it. Ask voters if surplus revenues should be returned as tax rebates (the status quo) or invested in a permanent endowment for education (the proposed amendment). I think there's a fair chance that a majority would support "education endowment."

I also wonder: is the kicker we have in the constitution even legal? Voters were asked to add both the individual and corporate kicker to the constitution as a single ballot measure. It's pretty obvious that they are two different things, and that a voter might approve of one but not the other. Lumping them into a single measure may be in violation of the (now fairly strict) one-subject, one-vote rule that the appellate courts have been enforcing in recent years. If someone had the standing to challenge it -- they might be able to knock both kickers out of the state constitution. We'd still have both kickers, but they would be statutes subject to amendment or repeal by the legislature -- which is where these sorts of things properly belong.

freakin' double-post.

What do you call cramming 2 million people into dense quarters and then forcing them to all ride in a train packed in like sardines? Is this your idea of "livability"? Rents going up over 20% in the last 4 years? Is that livability? Is it livability that all you idiots from California move up here and force liberal "progressive" additudes on those of us who have lived here much longer, some even for many generations? I am a 7th generation native Oregonian and I am watching as the nefarious and tyrannical imbeciles are stripping away property rights via S.B. 505. I am upset that I pay so much in taxes and get absolutely nothing back. So I have remedied the situation by amending my W4 for exempt status for Oregon. It's time for something truly progressive - a tax revolt. No more taxation without representation!!!! Maybe they won't be able to afford millions in public art or prisons they never open if more people take this stand. I am tired of it. I am going to pay for my own needs and not let the state bureaucracy mandate what I can and cannot do with my own resources I work so hard to get.

Another thing I have always wondered, why should I have to subsidize people's educations? Why don't they pay their own way? When I went to college, I attended a PRIVATE University and I worked full time the whole time I went and my parents did not subsidize and neither did the state. I took out a private loan and recently paid it back. I am tired of paying for other people's free ride on my dime. Another reason I'm not going to do it any more.

I made my troll donation to the OCPP.

I made my troll donations to Mercy Corps & Oregonians in Action.

I made another one to my college's alumni association so I can "subsidize" someone else's education. I am going to give away every dime I can so the state can't take anything! I am done supporting this corrupt and self serving system. I'm also Mennonite so there's my justification for not paying the Feds. I am going to be more efficient than them and support causes near and dear to me.

It's ridiculous that GT would be whining about taxes if he lives in Oregon, where taxes are nearly the lowest in the country. Last time I checked there were only four states with lower taxes than Oregon. If he's looking for the Laissez-faire utopia he should try Mogadishu.

On the one hand that means that Oregon has a very efficient government, but that we have trouble funding schools and roads does show that taxes are too low. We need to get rid of both the kickers. Oregon taxes certainly aren't chasing away businesses locating here. If anything, it's a lack on investment in good schools and good roads. Driving on roads in Oregon at night and in the rain can be a white knuckle experience with the lack of good lane marking nowadays.

Well I find it ridiculous that you give away your money to these idiots who do nothing at all except demand more, yet at the same time line their PERS pockets and take extravagant and long vacations. I am giving my money to private organizations from now on. None to the government.

GT:

Please stop driving on my roads and using my internet infrastructure. They don't belong to you if you won't help pay for them.

Or are you just a common thief?

Get out of MY state. My family has been here since 1847 and has seen it overrun by illegals and Californians!

BTW, the State is the common thief. Through its legislative reguloatory thievery back in the 70's it stole a plot of land owned by my grandmother for its stupid "Willamette River Greenway" project. Now the land sits in a shambles and not a damn thing has been done with it. Now they are trying to steal generational landowners' property via SB 505. It's not fair! And you have the nerve to call me a "thief". You're not even from here, go back to California and take all your friends with you!! I am organizing a tax revolt to bring the state to its knees.

Oh one more thing, the Internet isn't owned by the government. In case you didn't notice that, either. The government started it back in the 60's via the military as ARPAnet but its now privatized unless you're using the stupid COP's Wi-Fi service (which doesn't work anyway, sounds like a typical government run service).

Portland Metrofi is a privately run service.

GT, your "I was here before you, so this state is mine" rant doesn't work on any level. Unless you're a native American, you're an immigrant. I'm sure that plenty of us are "native Oregonians" too. Maybe if you were to move out of the ancestral shack you'd be a little happier as civilization comes your way.

The "natives" weren't from here, either. They came from Siberia. So your point is moot.

My family was here before the self important politicans came in. Maybe they need to go back to California and try to clean up that mess instead of making new ones up here.

Everytime I read one of GTs posts, I wonder if there isn't a 16 year old kid in his parents basement somewhere laughing his tail off.

I understand your anger, GT, sometimes I disagree with where my tax money goes ( wars built on lies, congressional pork ) but I combat this by getting involved- not getting out.

For the money we send to State and Federal, we should have a better Oregon. How much of our money pays for our deployed Guard troops? How about the trillion expected to be spent on the war?

Anybody freeloading off you GT? Remember that part in the Constitution about general welfare? If you really consider it, you have used the public dime as well. When you stop paying your taxes, you will be 100% subsidized by us.

Regarding illegals, where are they getting the jobs at? Do you think the Oregon AG economy could survive without?

Anger feels ok for the moment, but take a look at the causes for what makes you angry. Californians aren't trying to preserve Oregon, they do seem to make it like California. Some parts of Gresham look just like it-

No, I am not a 16 year old sitting in my parents basement, but thanks for the laugh. Actually I am 31 years old and work in the the I.T. department for a large company in Portland. I live in Portland, too. I make $48k a year.

I am upset for two reasons:

1) The state is trying to take away the rights of farmowners to subdivide and develop their land. My grandmother has plans to subdivide her several thousand acre farm in a rural county within the Portland Metro area and give away parts to all the grandchildren. I would be the benefactor of this action but the legislators and people in the city who don't know anything about farming are attempting to force their draconian measures on the farmowners. In essence they are stealing my inheritance.

2) I am mentally ill. I don't grovel and whine about being disabled and never demand accomodation from employers. I am upset that this mental health parity law they bragged about SO much doesn't even apply to me. They lied and said it would be universal. So I have to pay out of pocket for all my treatment and get nothing back from the state.

I have tried to become active and let my politicians know my view. I actually wrote them NICE letters (not the ranting type like I do here) and got no responses whatsoever. With regard to the tax issue, I feel that I have paid A LOT through the years and their wonderful programs are benefiting only the lower rung of society - those who don't pay much, if anything, into the system. I have taken the steps to forming my own S-Corporation so I can fund and pay for my own health insurance and not be so worked up over the gross injustices which are going on in Oregon. I am working on this with my CPA. He's discouraged me from just not paying ANYTHING, I am just going to write off as much as I can, in effect, getting a tax "discount". I will be able to write off a lot of my expenses as "business expenses", including paying my own health insurance. This will be a much better option than my employer one which doesn't pay for psych visits or meds. so now I'm paying close to $1000 a month for that. Oh well things will get better. Sorry if I offended anyone.

GT

Don't sweat it. We should all be able to participate in active debate, and have the right to get heated, but in the end we are all Oregonians.

Your situation regarding your illness is disappointing. Health care should be a right, and your brain is an organ in your body.

<h2>Many times we do not see the advantage of our tax money. I was diagnosed with a VERY rare form of cancer 3 years ago, and the only one in seven hospitals that could help me was OHSU. The next nearest was Phoenix,AZ. All of that time my taxes subsidized OHSU, I didn't even realize that I was helping myself until I needed it.</h2>