"Demeaning to the President?" Well, we certainly would not want to demean the President. And we certainly would not want to do the rounds on national televion and say things like:

link Date: 12/11/2006 CNN The Situation Room - Transcript I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. As the Iraq war clearly worsens, some U.S. senators who voted for the war have now come out against it. One of them is now deeply, deeply frustrated about the current course, and is out blasting the Bush administration's strategy. Republican Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon had this to say late last week about Iraq. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. GORDON SMITH (R), OREGON: I for one am at the end of my rope when it comes to supporting a policy that has our soldiers patrolling the same streets in the same way being blown up by the same bombs day after day. That is absurd. It may even be criminal. I cannot support that anymore. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(emphasis added)

Hardball, 12/13/06 MATTHEWS: In other words, you‘re saying that the longer we stay in there, the longer we create an artificial situation, it simply slows down the political process? SMITH: Exactly. This is about political decisions. They have had three inspiring elections. They‘ve elected people to make decisions. They are not making decisions relative to the rights of minorities, to the distribution of oil and whatever system of federalism they have, they must make these decisions sooner than later. I will support that. But that is not what‘s happenings. The people in charge now are the militias with the guns. And then when we go to actually trying to make a difference, well what happens? They make us release the leaders of these militias or to take down our checkpoints. In the meantime, another Oregonian, many other Americans are being killed and that is what I think we must stop doing.

(emphasis added)

Call his policies criminal on national TV, talk about troops dying violently and insinuate (or flat out state) Bush is at fault, but don't "demean" him by using the word "escalation" in a non-binding resolution. Senator Smith, please! For the love of God, enough already. I am beginning to doubt that you appreciate the gravity of the situation if you can't restrain yourself from taking cheap shots at Democrats every chance you get. Is this all just some kind of political game to you? Close mouth. Fix problem. That is all.

With the advent of spring, Oregon's snow-man iconoclast just melts away... The reason he's so outraged about the Dems demeaning behavior, is that they have plotted to charge the Junior Senator fair market value for bumming rides on his corporate friends' Lear Jets...

honorable, moderate g. smith also just blocked the minimum wage bill.

My opinion on the war has shifted as of late. I think we did the right thing by getting rid of Saddam Hussein. However, the deplorable incompetance and bumbling that ensued is what I have a gripe about. I say immediately withdraw from Iraq and get ready to lay waste to the ENTIRE Middle East with an annihilating nuclear attack. These people are the thorns in the side of the entire world and I say get rid of them altogether. Problem solved!

--GREG--

I'm not talking just the Iraqis, but the Iranians, the Afghanis and the entire region even including Israel! It is a giant tinderbox that has been simmering with conflict and hate for centuries. As you may recall, people from this area were to blame for the attack on our country on 9/11. People from this area attacked innocent people on the subway in Madrid the next year and then London the year after that. Sure, I agree with the drivel that it isn't EVERYONE but even an alarming minority group that wants to see us all dead or converted to Islam! Is that what you want? The Iranian psycho who thinks Armageddon is upon us is waiting for the 12th Imam to pop up out of a sewer signalling the end of the world. I'm sure that in World War 2 the entire population of Japan wasn't against us but the nuclear attacks were an effective turn around to THAT conflict? Can you argue that I am wrong there?

--GREG--

Greg,

You are wrong. Remember Timothy McVeigh? Based on his actions and assorted groups that continue to operate should we just nuke the US midwest and be done with it?

You scare me much more that anyone in the middle east.

So you're going to sit back and allow Ahmedinejad (sp) to mettle all over the world and even make alliances in Latin America all the while grovelling about Bush and "the war"? How pathetic. Do you see the ridiculousness in this situation? All it would take is Iran to send a nuke to Latin America and they could EASILY transport it into the US. It would be easier and more effective to just wipe the middle east off the map. It would be a win win for everyone - they can meet Allah and the 72 virgins and we won't have to deal with terrorism any more.

--GREG--

I presume that you are being serious and not sarcastic. I prefer the later but based upon your other posts fear the former.

I'd rather be pathetic than a person who advocates nuking an entire region and race of people on the pretense that they <might> do something to us. So yes. I, for one, am willing to sit back and let racists who operate on stereotypes, fear mongering and simplistic thinking talk to themselves and fantasize. I suggest you pull out some books on the region, think about actually talk to some people from there...and do what ever you can to make up for the education that brought you to this line of thinking/reasoning. I'm serious about this. You scare me.

Greg, You seem to have all the answers. When will you enlist?

I think Chuck Hagel makes as much sense as anyone.

Well, Pathetic, you scare me. All this politically correct drivel and asinine grovelling and cries of "racism" is what is going to really destroy America and the world. Iran is threatening to "wipe Israel off the map" and people there chant "Death to America". Yet you lambaste me as being politically insensitve. Well you and your kind are inept. And yes, I have read many many books on the history of the region so don't deride me as stupid in addition to "scary". I have my opinion and should be entitled to it. Yet the liberal thought police would love to shut me down.

How funny! How "brain dead" is it to let us sit back and let this crazy psycho Amadinejad work his people up into a lather about the 2nd coming of the 12th Imam? Isn't he supposed to pop up out of the sewer and that is going to be Mahmoud's que to destroy all of civilization and herald a new world order under Islamic control? Oh by the way in case you didn't hear the news the Russians and Chinese have sent a significant amount of nuclear missiles to Iran in the last few days. I guess we're supposed to claim ignorance on that one too. That sounds like the perfect utopia I want to be living in! not. So I'm supposed to have a "heart and a brain" and let this happen and not be upset about it? Whatever.....

All of the anger, fear, judgments ... Observe these tumultuous mind-states spinning round and round. Note with compassion all the suffering that accompanies them. Then, if you can, find an inner place where you can let that stuff go. Just let it go.

Greg is a troll, in the sense that he hijacks threads by being idiotic, rambling and demanding a lot of attention for his nonsense. It's time for troll donations. I'm making mine to the Democratic Party of Oregon.

I also suggest Future PAC (which helps elect Democratic Oregon State Representatives), the Bus Project (which engages young people in progressive politics and helps elect progressive Oregon State Representatives and Senators), and MoveOn (which, I suspect, will cause Greg to have a stroke).

This works, guys. Make a donation and post a comment saying where you donated. Pretty soon, every thread on Blue Oregon won't be about how the liberals are helping the crazies destroy our way of life.

Can you help me to understand this "troll" definition? Is that anyone who, even with critical thinking to back up their argument, is against the liberal viewpoint? I admit, I am a Republican but I don't always kowtow to the party on all issues. Many of my Republican friends and I spar over their bumbling idiocy as well. One example, the way the war in Iraq has denigrated in such a pathetic manner. Here we are the most powerful country in the world and these little mini Hitlers are popping up and we're not doing ANYTHING about them! We have Ahmadinejad of Iran who has his people worked up into a froth about the 2nd coming of the 12th Imam who is going to pop up out of the sewer and establish a new world order under Islamic rule. We have "dear leader" in North Korea and his bellicosity. He's killed millions of his own people because he choses to spend half of the country's meager money on the military. He also quashes any attempts by his population who act against him. Then there's Chavez in Venezuela who has all his people up in arms against us even though we've spent a lot helping their country develop their infrastructure over the years. He nationalized many areas that American companies have spent a lot of money building up over the years. Now these three idiots are incahoots and cooperating. Yet we stand by and let that situation get out of control too. And then we have the liberals who are cramming their political sensitive views down everyone's throats and whining about BUSH this and BUSH that, Republicans this and Republicans that.... (even though I do think BUSH is an idiot, I don't agree with the childing crying about his antics, either).

As far as the argument that I'm an idiot. That is just plain WRONG! I have read many books on middle eastern history and politics. One of them I read was called the Old Testament. Another one the Koran... Then I read one called the History of the Middle East and Iraq Gate. There are many others I won't ramble off every one but I really don't appreciate being derided as idiotic just because I don't agree with your viewpoint doesn't mean I'm an idiot.

Thank You!!

Chris: Nice definition. Very clear.

GT: Perhaps "idiot" was the wrong word. I appologize. I don't know how smart you are. And you are, of course, entitled to your point of view on matters of opinion.

But your opinions are based on "facts" that are simply wrong. And when someone corrects you, you don't change your mind or even acknowledge you were wrong. You respond by tossing out "facts" that are even more outrageous.

Debunking you would be sisyphitic, since you seem to have a limitless fountain of ideologically convenient untruths. Dude, you need a new source of news.

If you want to spar over the war (which I agree can be interesting), talk to Kari about writing a guest column. Authors are given broad latitude to defend and clarify their posts. But the comments section of barely-related posts is not the right place. It irritates the people who want to follow or participate in the actual discussion at hand.