"In the mountains and ranchlands of the West, there are Democrats who understand real America. Out here, far from the nation's capital, there are Democrats who understand skepticism of the federal government."

ok, i'm all for a western strategy, however, this is pretty much baloney. the west, over the past century, has been the biggest recipient of federal welfare money almost entirely through economically unsound, environmentally ill-advised water "conservation" projects (ie: dams, dams, dams). the west never saw a federal dollar it was skeptical of. if this skepticism of the federal government were real, most the west would still be a sparsely populated desert.

and what's up with this "real America" stuff? oh please!

but anyway, good news on denver over new york.

i am right about the policy--there are 20 dams on the colorado river system alone, and those dams don't build themselves. however, it is important to note that the reason the west is trending blue is mostly because of changing voter demographics, with a bit of help from gop over-reaching on civil liberties and spending (elsewhere, of course). perhaps the myth of the libertarian west will die with the changing demographics.

It's nice to see they have picked a place that is a bit more central to the U.S. Sure makes it easier for those in the central and western U.S. to afford the plane tickets.

Consider the train. Assuming that there haven't been drastic cuts to Amtrak by the summer of 2008, my family took the train to Denver for a wedding in 2000 and the views are beautiful. There are connections so that you can get on the train in Portland or Salem and make arrangements to get on the train going east by changing trains in Sacramento. They made sure that we made our connection.

Some of us delegates took the train to SF in 1984.

I'm with Peter, I'm sick of this whole "real Americans" nonesense. It is something Democrats should never engage in, leave that divisive BS to the Repubs.

The truth is we are all real Americans, whether we're farmers in Kansas or IT guys in CA or Stockbrokers in NYC and so on.

Peter et al -

Back in the 1930's America was not the Country it is today. The west was "developed" for the good of all the country. Now, in those times they did not have the advantages of the "wisdom" you profess today, but I believe that my grandparents generation did the best they could and knew how to do with what they had.

And, in fact, it was the development of the west that finally brought real wealth to America. Today we are exploiters of the world, but back then, it was the west. Without that wealth, we wouldn't even have had the ability to have the science that gives you the "wisdom" you profess.

You can't remake history, it is what it is. Today, the west is one of the most important regions of the US. Lots of us live here, we grow food here that we all eat, and we are in fact an environmental conscience for the country. As I have often observed, people love the rural west because it has clean air, clean water, and it is a beautiful place to be. That is why I live where I live in the eastern part of Central Oregon. I can't take the dirty air and crowded conditions of the valley towns, and I know them well having grown up in Portland and lived in Eugene.

I welcome the DNC convention in Denver, and think it was a wise move.

Denver is a great city and a good pick for the Democratic Convention, although you don't need to go very far from downtown Denver to find the home of James Dobson and his "Focus on the Family" right wing nut cases. I bet he already has reserved space to erect his circus revival tent next to the Denver Convention Center during the DNC convention.

The 2008 Dem. presidential candidate selection process looks to be the best piece of political theater in my lifetime. Personally I would rather nominate Genghis Khan than Ms. Clinton, but Hillary is sitting on so much campaign cash that she can probably buy the Dem. nomination with brute force. But even if she wins the Dem. nomination you have to wonder whether she would have a chance against either Rudy Giuliani or John McCain. But then again, the Repubs may be too stupid or too fractionalized to nominate a moderate pro-choice candidate like either Giuliani or McCain (yes, I know some people say Rudy and McCain are moving right as fast as they can, but I still think they are moderate as far as recent Republicans go). Hopefully the Republicans will nominate some cretin like Mitt Romney.

Only about a year to go until the first caucus of 2008!

Steve,

I don't disagree with any of that, what I object to is the "we're the real america" phrasing thus by implication implying that people in Mass, Georgia or Florida aren't.

pat,

you are totally right; symbolism is very important, and myths are even stronger. let them shine on in all their glory at the convention, and then please, pretty please, let's use facts for our policy.

steve,

notice how i never criticized the development of the west--just the mythology, and the quaint hypocracy of it all. (though there is much to criticize about the development of the west--e.g. the existence of phoenix--as you said, hindsight is 20/20). a small sliver of the northwest, west of the cascades/sierra nevada, and north of the tehachapi mts, along with some sparsely populated mountain regions of idaho/montana (and a few other scattered locations), are really the anomaly, and it is reflected in our politics and values.

eric,

looks like we both misunderstood kari. i guess i i agree, the beltway politic scene is a cesspool.

Kari,

I see what you were aiming for. But the problem is that phrase "real america" has become loaded by the way teh republicans contstantly use it to imply that us coastal liberals are in some way not americans.

And even limiting it to DC plays into their game of demonizing the government.

Peter writes,

"steve, notice how i never criticized the development of the west--just the mythology, and the quaint hypocracy of it all. (though there is much to criticize about the development of the west--e.g. the existence of phoenix--as you said, hindsight is 20/20). a small sliver of the northwest, west of the cascades/sierra nevada, and north of the tehachapi mts, along with some sparsely populated mountain regions of idaho/montana (and a few other scattered locations), are really the anomaly, and it is reflected in our politics and values."

Peter, you show a combination of bias, ignorance, and a urban-centric mythology with your comment. "The west side of the Cascades" is an anomaly you write. You need to know that environmentalism in its core form is more evident in rural Oregon on the east side/south side, than I can see in the polluted valley you claim. Evidence? Do you see a huge natural gas fired electric plant on the Crook/Jefferson County boundary making power to ship out of state? No, the Cogentrix plant was locally opposed to death. It would have taken our water to the tune of thousands of acre feet (billions of gallons), and polluted the skies to the point of impacting our view of the Cascades. Local opposition, no help from the anomoly in the valley, made that plant not happen in spite of lots of political support from places Sen. Smith's office.

Peter, you and many others stand on top of your self-supposed ivory tower bastion of progressive values in the valley. It just isn't so. EVERY State wide race where we have elected so many Democrats in the last couple decades has depended upon Democratic votes from outside of the anomoly in the valley. We may only run 30 to 45% Democratic in our various votes, but it is what puts the Democrats over the top. Sen. Wyden even gets a majority here even being a Democrat. Yes, we are more conservative than the anomoly in the valley, but we are not any more uniform here than in the valley.

Believe it or not, Republicans live in the valley, and Democrats live on the west side of the State. I'm sorry if that contradicts your biased stereotypes, but it has to be said.

Quietly, because mostly that is how things really get done, we are taking up new practices here that would probably surprise you. If you want to see stream restoration to enhance water production (e.g. down stream that means more salmon), then you have to look at places like Bear Creek (south side of Crooked River) where local ranchers have worked with the State for nearly 20 years now to recover that stream. You have to look at Juniper tree eradication to restore natural balance that has restored streams that had completely disappeared, like the Jameson ranch near Eagle Rock on the Paulina Highway. You have to look at the many instances of off grid solar/wind power being put into individual homes with very little government help. You have to look an innovative building like the straw bale houses that are going up here.

Peter, take some time to learn about the real west, not your mythology based upon urban stereotypes of rural areas.

"Denver is a great city"?? Spare me. Just returned from there. The crusty dirty brown snow and ice everywhere failed to improve the appearance of an ugly city. Will the conventioneers get outside the glitzy redeveloped bit of downtown into the awful sprawl that now runs practically uninterrupted from Boulder to Colorado Springs?

steve,

i have no idea where you came up with any of that. you obviously have a huge, huge chip on your shoulder regarding supposed urban attitudes towards rural folks.

once again, please notice that i said none of the things you attributed to me. in fact, your entire rant is based on one snippet of my comment "a small sliver of the northwest, west of the cascades... [is an] anomaly". if you bothered to read what i said, rather than listening to the feverish hallucinations of your mind, you would see that i did not once mention environmentalism, nor the "urban/rural divide" (as if there aren't any rural communities west of the cascades), or "urban progressivism". if you had bothered to read my original post, you might remember i was talking about dam construction in the west, and the myth of western libertarianism. then you would realize that the anomaly i was speaking of was the availability of water, and the political economy there of--largely centered around irrigation--which, ironically, you mention yourself in your point about the Cogentrix plant! most ironic, is that for all the effort you spend telling me that i am biased towards "the valley", as you call it, you spend the rest of your energy telling me how much better the "pure" environmentalism of the east/south is compared to the the cesspool that is "the valley".

finally, for some reason you insist that i must live in "the valley", and that i am some urban effete, who is not a descendant of irrigation farmers, who does not already know about the wonderful water restoration projects going on outside of "the valley" (Bear Creek is also a bureau of reclamation hydromet station, so it's the feds too).

maybe since you are so sensitive, instead of assuming things and pointing fingers, you could either:

A) make your posts educational (like your last paragraph), or B) keep it to your self and/or your therapist.

or maybe, since you admitted earlier that you dislike cities, you should consider where all that food that is grown in the east is sold to, and where the tax dollars that payed (and continue to pay) for many irrigation projects and deliver below market rate water to the farms comes from, and then get over it and move on to more productive things (like you did when criticizing sen. smith, who gets tons of political support east of the cascades, even though he is a tool of the extraction/pollution industries, and doesn't really serve his constituents that well).