As far as when people started talking about immigration, I just read in a story about population growth in this country, "In 1915 when the population hit 100 million people, there was a backlash and lawmakers put limits on immigration for the first time".

Maybe Saxton means "no one in my circle was talking about immigration"?

Isn't migrant housing inspected by the State of Oregon? One can't tell by the pictures what the accomodations are inside these units. And, aren't these quarters built for TEMPORARY use only? I doubt anyone lived there year 'round. Again, what's the issue?

David Sarasohn column

And, aren't these quarters built for TEMPORARY use only? I doubt anyone lived there year 'round.

Where do you think they lived the rest of the year? In some other "temporary" housing perhaps? We may sleep in a tent when we go camping, it doesn't make a tent suitable housing for workers at a business.

Isn't migrant housing inspected by the State of Oregon?

Yes. And laws against hiring illegal immigrants are enforced by the government of the United States. Neither one is likely to go after a prominent, well-connected businessman.

I really hope the Kulongoski team jumps on what is clearly a question of character with Ron Saxton.

He refuses to take positions on difficult issues like TABOR and Iraq (how can ANYONE not have an opinion on Iraq???) He approves campaign ads that tell blatant lies. He tells lies in his interviews. He dodges the law to run for office from a home he doesn't live in. And he apparently doesn't bother complying with labor law regarding to workers he had living in a barn.

Then, after all this, he won't tell us what the evil inefficiencies are that he plans to cut in state government. Instead, he just asks us to trust him.

God help us if this man is elected to lead.

Where do you think they lived the rest of the year? In some other "temporary" housing perhaps? We may sleep in a tent when we go camping, it doesn't make a tent suitable housing for workers at a business.

I always thought "Migrant Workers" meant they moved on to another state as crops ripen for picking. And, the idea is that non-citizens working on temporary visas should NOT live here year 'round.

You people are nitpicking nits that just don't exist.

As I understand it, Saxton WAS part owner in this farming venture and was not involved in the hiring of farm workers. Apparently that was handled by an independent contractor who claims hiring practices were legit.

Were there illegal aliens working on that farm? Most likely, as there are on most agricultural job sites. My guess is Ron didnt give it much thought back then, like most people. Worth noting, but hardly a scandal.

How about our current governor? Does Oregon DMV check SSN's? No. Do they accept Mexican matricular cards as a form of valid ID and issue drivers licenses to foreign nationals? Yep. Are non-citizens receiving taxpayer funded services from the state? You bet. When confronted, Ted comes up with "Hey, I'm not working the counter at DMV". He has also said that Oregon leads the way on the Real ID act, full well knowing that statement could not be farther from the truth. As far as identification goes, Oregon Drivers Licenses become more worthless by the day.

Kulongoski has shown no desire to do his part to repair our broken immigration system. On a state level it has become much worse under his direction. Saxton is the guy talking immigration reform NOW while Kulongoski's record on the matter speaks for itself. I don't care about a small agricultural partnership Ron owned a piece of years ago, nor do I care what crops are grown on that land today. Cherries, grapes, grass seed- who gives a rats ass? Saxton Farmgate? Weak.

Saxton is the guy talking immigration reform, while being owner of a vineyard that undoubtedly profited from illegal immigration. Message to Saxton: Illegal is illegal. I would expect Saxton to give a proportional share of his profits from the vineyard back, if it can be calculated.

Saxton also games the system with his renting of the apartment to get his kids into Lincoln. Message to Saxton: Unethical is unethical.

I always thought "Migrant Workers" meant they moved on to another state as crops ripen for picking

... where some other employer provides them with sub-standard housing. I am not sure what the fact that it is temporary housing has to do with anything.

Lets be clear. The solution to criminal employers who exploit foreign born labor is simple. Throw them in jail. If Saxton illegally hired people to work for him, he is a criminal. He belongs in jail. The same way he would if he hired children. Just like Goldschmidt belonged in jail.

Does Oregon DMV check SSN's? No. Do they accept Mexican matricular cards as a form of valid ID and issue drivers licenses to foreign nationals? Yep. Are non-citizens receiving taxpayer funded services from the state? You bet<?i>

Is there anything illegal about any of that? No. Is there any reason not to give a drivers license to someone who is qualified to drive? No. Does the DMV have any reason to check social security numbers? No. Is there anything wrong with taxpayers who aren't citizens receiving services? No.

What does any of that have to do with an employer illegally hiring people? Nothing.

Bad news, Libbos: Air Amerika just filed for Bankruptcy.

Anybody care to guess how much money El Rushbo makes every minute?

The solution to criminal employers who exploit foreign born labor is simple. Throw them in jail. If Saxton illegally hired people to work for him, he is a criminal. He belongs in jail. The same way he would if he hired children. Just like Goldschmidt belonged in jail.

Obviously, then, since no criminal charges have been filed against Saxton, he did not hire illegal workers. Thanks for clearing that up.

Obviously, then, since no criminal charges have been filed against Saxton, he did not hire illegal workers. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yeh and John Gotti isn't a mobster. "Prove it!" has always been the first refuge of scoundrels.

[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]

This is some kind of political gymnasitcs.

Your blue leaders, for years, knowingly gave (and continue to do so) drivers licences to illegal aliens.

Any employer, or public service agency, then has every reason to believe the holder of that licence to be in the State legally because it is illegal to obtain an Oregon driver's licend if you are in the State/country illegally.

Essentialy, the State, under the control of Democrats have been providing fake IDs to illegal aliens, enabling them all sorts of means to remain here illegally.

That's who you are.

That will stop immediately when Saxton is elected.

Kulongoski on the other hand, refuses to use his authority, today, and stop the distribution of these illegal documents.

39 other states require proof of legal status.

Kulongoski is misleading the public with this pretense that he must wait for the Fed real ID act and that he is leading the effort among states to adopt it.

He doesn't need the act or anything but the will to order the DMV to validate legal status.

Why not either promote the wisdom in providing driver's licences to illegal aliens or stop doing it?

[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]

it is illegal to obtain an Oregon driver's licend if you are in the State/country illegally.

It is? Where is the statute that says that? What possible purpose is there in not giving someone a drivers license if they are qualified to drive?

has every reason to believe the holder of that licence to be in the State legally

As you point out, it is no reason to think that at all. Its like saying he has a driver's license so he must be qualified to be a doctor. There is simply no connection between a drivers license and legal employment status.

[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]

Your blue leaders, for years, knowingly gave (and continue to do so) drivers licences to illegal aliens.

The total number of illegal immigrants in the United States has doubled over the last 5 years under a Republican administration and a Republican congress.

If you want to blame anyone for the influx of illegal immigrants into the United States, the place to begin and end is with the GOP controlled Federal Government that refuses to secure our borders, and that fails to prosecute employers who hire undocumented workers as a vehicle to circumvent our minimum wage laws and to suppress wages in construction and other industries.

I can't begin to comprehend the mental gymnastics necessary to pin this federal issue on Governor Kulongoski, particularly when the man pointing the finger, Ron Saxton, has knowingly profited from hiring undocumented workers, and who continues to lie about the exact nature of the business he is running.

Ron Saxton will do or say anything to get himself elected governor. His own public comments on the subject tell us that he didn't give a rip about this issue until polling told him that he should start caring about it.

I don't remember - which of these tenaments did Saxton use to run for School Board and in which did he live?

Joe12Pack:

Do you have any respectable source that shows that illegal immigrants are receiving drivers licenses?

I've heard you guys spout that a lot. But I checked the DMV requirements and they clearly only allow drivers licenses for citizens and LEGAL immigrants.

It seems a lot like the "evidence" that Saddam had WMDs. A lot of right-wing loonies say it and reference each other.

because it is illegal to obtain an Oregon driver's licend if you are in the State/country illegally

umm, no it isn't. you may want it to be illegal, but it is not.

Drivers licenses in this country have never been an acceptible proof of citizenship. As you well know, if you have ever been a W-2 employee, you must provide your company with proof of identity and proof of citizenship (or other eligibility for employment). Your drivers license is acceptible as proof of identity, i.e. you are who you say you are. Your social security card (or work visa, etc.) is proof of citizenship or eligibility for employment.

Same thing when you get a passport. The federal government wants to know your identity, so you show a drivers license, and proof that you are a citizen, so you show your social secuirty card or official birth certificate.

The federal government, until now, has never expected the states to enforce their laws. That's why these long standing policies -- written in a time of more intellectually honest political debate -- are in effect.

So, in your response there is a whole lot of truthiness, but not a lot of truth.

[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]

[off-topic three-person argument deleted.]

[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]

New Requirements for Oregon Licenses

"If Oregon adopts the Real ID Act, one big change for Oregon is clear: All customers seeking to obtain, replace or renew driver licenses, instruction permits and ID cards will need to prove that they are citizens of the United States or are otherwise legally present in the country."

The 2007 legislature will consider this legislation. Let shope they don't adopt it. But it is clear, as of now, there is no requirement that someone have a work visa.

[off-topic two-person argument deleted.]

[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]

Hey Bert,

You don't need to do much digging to find your answer. Of course Oregon DMV issues drivers to illegals and the governor does not deny that fact. It's policy. They're not going to advertise that on state websites. Not in English, anyway. Educate yourself, my friend. A good place to start would be Mexican Consulate Matricular Cards.

Now, as for the voting thing, that's hard to prove or disprove by design, though highly plausible given our current system.

Saxton didn't have an answer for this at the city club debate today either. It was a refreshing debate - even though I already knew how bad Saxton would be for the state of Oregon going in, seeing the two side by side sure did illustrate that.

He brilliantly displayed how ridiculous of a candidate he is. The only thing out of his mouth was taxes. Where's the vision for the future of Oregon? Not there because he doesn't have one.

And did anybody else catch the blatant lie Saxton tried to feed the crowd (and the cameras) about Ted's record when it comes to rural Oregon. What an ass.

[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]

Lets be clear, almost no employers in the country have been charged with illegally hiring workers. It is the policy of the federal government not to enforce the law. If they enforced it aggressively the problem of illegal exploitation of foreign labor by american employers would end. But it is a lot less popular to go after prosperous American businesses, no matter how criminal their actions, than a bunch of poor foreigners you can label "illegal immigrants". Its like blaming children for child labor.

[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]

I agree that Oregon employers, as should all U.S. employers, should be prosecuted for knowingly illegally hiring undocumented workers. We need to take away the incentive for illegal aliens to come here illegally. Under Kulongoski's administration, illegal aliens have been hired directly or indirectly by the state to work as forest firefighters and tree planters. Saxton has said he will stop this practice.

[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]

I agree that Oregon employers, as should all U.S. employers, should be prosecuted for knowingly illegally hiring undocumented workers.

Does Saxton? Is he really going to make sure that no company the state does business with hires illegals. Because if that is his pledge, look out Walmart. And there isn't going to be any beef or poultry on the menu's in state facilities. Nor many fresh vegetables. No more of those wine and cheese receptions for dignataries. In fact, given the widespread use of foreign labor in agriculture, I don't know how he will be able to serve any food at his inaugural.

Ron Saxton has stated he will require all state agencies to prove citizenship for its employees. He aslo said he will "enforce the law" in his immigration ad. I haven't heard Kulongoski say anything remotely similar. When pressed for his response to DMV issues, Kulongoski said "Gosh, I don't work at the DMV counter" or something to that effect. That's not much in the way of leadership.

[off-topic discussion about John Gotti deleted.]

Phil - Ron Saxton is an idiot. Also, did the Governor really say "Gosh?" Way to make him sound silly - in the end it's only you that sounds silly.

OK, so T.K. didn't say "gosh". But, his response of "I don't issue the licenses; I'm not behind the counter" was quite weak as a reply to the DMV issue. He still sounded silly, IMO.

Is the DMV now demanding birth certificates and cross-checking SSN's with names given? If so, that's a recent development.

Ron Saxton has stated he will require all state agencies to prove citizenship for its employees.

You mean he says he will follow the federal law?I guess for the crowd he runs with that is a novel and innovative idea. Or is he saying the state will not hire resident aliens?

Here's his radio ad:

http://www.votesaxton.com/assets/multimedia/RS-06-R-21_Saxton_Radio_City-smaller.mp3

You can refer to it for his exact quotes. Sounds to me he's saying the State will not hire illegal aliens.

So funny how this has become such a big issue out of the blue. The conservative base has it's panties in a bunch over this one, just like gay marriage. When will you people ever wake up and realize you're being used by the GOP? It's a joke. Saxton doesn't care about anything but making sure he and his rich republican buddies stay wealthy and powerful - you really think he gives a crap about this stuff? Wrong!

I think this illegal immigration issue has been building for a long time. Many Oregonians have suffered the negative effects of allowing illegal aliens to work and live here on a permanent basis. The building trades unions have suffered and so have crime victims. It's been said most of the illegal drug supply is coming from Mexico, brought here by illegal aliens.

It's refreshing to hear an Oregon candidate for Governor say he will work to solve these problems.

Sounds to me he's saying the State will not hire illegal aliens.

What a novel idea, he is running an advertisement saying he won't break the law.

Has the state has ever hired an illegal alien? Maybe, but maybe you would want to see some evidence that he will do something different to prevent it in the future. Otherwise this is just demagoguery.

If Saxton is elected Governor and does little or nothing to prevent illegal aliens from coming or staying here, then I will not vote for him in the following election.

Kulongoski has only made the illegal alien population higher. He coddles them. I doubt Saxton will.

It's refreshing to hear an Oregon candidate for Governor say he will work to solve these problems.

How is not hiring illegal aliens to work for the state going to help the building trades? How will it stop anyone from smuggling drugs from Mexico?

If its true he has said he won't demand enforcement of the laws against employers illegally hiring cheap foreign labor then he is just blowing smoke. He's trying to blame "illegals" for the problem, sort of like blaming children for child labor.

Of course foreign workers don't vote or make campaign contributions and can't run for governor. People who hire them can.

It's refreshing to hear an Oregon candidate for Governor say he will work to solve these problems.

How is not hiring illegal aliens to work for the state going to help the building trades? How will it stop anyone from smuggling drugs from Mexico?

If its true he has said he won't demand enforcement of the laws against employers illegally hiring cheap foreign labor then he is just blowing smoke. He's trying to blame "illegals" for the problem, sort of like blaming children for child labor.

Of course foreign workers don't vote or make campaign contributions and can't run for governor. People who illegally hire them can.

The only Saxton cares about is tax breaks for the wealthy - he'll say anything to get elected. This is hard to type, but I'm beginning to think I dislike him more than I disliked Mannix.

It's getting tiresome trying to argue all the specifics of each campaign, but so far as illegal immigration goes, Ron Saxton appears to be willing to take steps to discourage illegals from staying here while Ted Kulongoski has and continues to enocurage them.

Encourage them how, exactly?

From the OR DMV website:

Oregon law does not require proof of citizenship or legal immigration status to obtain a driver license. Governor Ted Kulongoski will submit a bill to the 2007 Oregon Legislature to achieve compliance with the federal Real ID Act, which includes a requirement that applicants provide proof of citizenship or legal immigration status in order to obtain a driver license. The 2007 Legislature will decide whether Oregon will adopt this requirement.

Re: The Real ID Act:

Will a customer be able to drive without proof of citizenship or legal immigration status? The act gives the states the option to issue a “driving privilege only” card, which would be valid as a driver’s license only, and not recognized as an identification card for official federal purposes. The 2007 Oregon Legislature must decide whether Oregon will offer such an option.

So, does the governor have anything to do with it?

[off-topic four person discussion not deleted]

I like the housing picture, I poached a bigger one from Ridenbaugh Press for my Blog that was taken from a better angle. That picture ought to tell you something, DMV stuff to the side. If you think this is where your help ought to live, they've got a bleak future.

I AM an employer, I have a bunch of I-9s (rebranded to reflect INS to DHS) and gasp they show that my people have all been legal hires. The forms REQUIRE proof, not an "I dunno," so anyone who doesn't know is an actual criminal for either a) illegally hiring re: I-9 or b) not paying taxes re: I-9. So, the only question is just exactly what kind of criminal Ron Saxton is.

Boohooing about illegal immigrants where I can see it will result in you getting ripped, your racism and xenophobis stinks, your inability to see what's happening to American labor caused by cretins like Saxton is appalling. You out yourselves with your stupid rants, there's a difference between principle and cretin-ism. If five or six of these people are stupid enough to try to vote, it's immaterial, the depression of wages and the creation of an underground disenfranchised society does count. Your nonsense discredits the real argument and we get painted with YOUR brush.

Chuck,

So...you're saying employers should be held accountable for illegal hiring practices? Of course they should. That's a big part of the equation. Unfortunately, the powers that be (including D's, R's and the business sector) have allowed this breakdown to occur. Now that the people are begining to pay attention, we have an opportunity to begin fixing the problems.

IMO, the last paragraph in your comment discredits your argument. Do you really need to resort to insults, name calling and playing the race card? Give me a break.

Not only has our current governor done nothing to improve the situation, he is at least partially responsible for enabling it in our state. That's a fact. Comparing that to Saxton's part ownership in a farm business years ago is quite a stretch. Frankly, Ron saying he's not entirely sure if there werent a few illegal aliens working that job at one time or another strikes me as refreshingly candid. According to the farm, they hired only documented workers. Is that true? We don't know and have no evidence to the contrary. So, Ron may have inadvertently benefited from the labor of illegal aliens. Don't we all, from the food we consume to the homes we live in. Hats off to you for checking I-9's.

BTW, rumor has it The Oregonian endorses Ron Saxton in the Sunday edition. Anyone got an early copy?

Actually employers who hire people illegally have a lot more to do with the problem than the governor of Oregon. Taking away people's drivers licenses is hardly going to stop them from coming here to work. It certainly isn't going to stop employers from exploiting foreign born workers. It isn't going to protect blue collar jobs. What does it do? Nothing, other than provide an opportunity for meaningless demogaguery by Saxton and his Republican supporters. Including a bunch of the illegal employers who are causing the problem in the first place.

Seems the endorsement rumor was accurate.

www.oregonlive.com/editorials/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1160774712203190.xml&coll=7

"Taking away people's drivers licenses is hardly going to stop them from coming here to work."

And it does nothing to stop them from driving either! The key still turns over the car whether you're state sanctioned to do so or not.

Can you imagine the racial profiling that'll go on then? Driving while brown will be cause enough to get pulled over and if you think we have a problem with overcrowding in the jails now... just wait.

Personally, I'd rather have people take the test, pay the fees, and (hopefully) get insurance if they're going to be driving around.

Ron Saxton reveals the details that will save Oregon!

Our beloved Republican candidate for Governor Ron Saxton has confounded the critics once again! Yes, the very critics who have been critical of his refusal to reveal the details of his plan to save Oregon. Yes! The critics are once again confounded. Ha!

First of all, I say to the critics: “Ron Saxton is a high-powered corporate attorney who doesn’t need to show you any stinking details.” There, I said it. You should all try to get a real job, maybe somewhere else if you hate America so much.

That being said, our beloved Republican candidate for Governor Ron Saxton has begun phase 2 of his campaign, which is ripe—even swollen, absolutely bursting—like a pomegranate—with details, the very details which will save Oregon and—by extension—all of America.

Oregon voters already understand his plan to secure funding for the Oregon State Police by creating efficiencies in the prison food system, while simultaneously reducing energy consumption in prison kitchens. These are known facts.

And Oregon voters also understand his proposal to end foreign word invasion of our beloved English language, by requiring all foreigners to speak English or get out. And to punish the America-hating librarians who put books written by foreigners in our beloved American public libraries, paid for by honest, hard-working property-owning English-speaking taxpayers.

The critics have been hounding our beloved Republican candidate for Governor Ron Saxton for not providing the details of his plan to save Oregon’s schools, but these critics are now confounded. Ha! Yes!

First of all, Ron Saxton has stated many times, over and over again, that he can find efficiencies that will save Oregon schools, just as he has solved the Oregon State Police funding problem by finding efficiencies in the prison system, and he has done this without even being Governor yet.

In addition to the aforementioned efficiencies, which were found by our beloved Republican candidate for Governor Ron Saxton, Ron Saxton has determined that the Oregon Republican Party platform contains many details that—taken together as a whole—will combine to save our state and our beloved America, which is under assault from foreigners and Democrats and other vile persons.

For your information, sections of the Oregon Republican Party platform are quoted below:

“A. All legislation should be based upon the premise that progress in education can only be achieved if each component of change is based upon proven principles. To rebuild a sound educational system, we recognize: All educational authority flows from our Creator to parents who may in turn delegate, at their discretion, that authority to professional educators;”

Ha! What can be more efficient than hiring the Creator and parents to teach our beloved Oregon children? What can be more efficient than using proven principles?

”C. History, especially the history of western civilization with its foundational Judeo-Christian values, provides essential experience from which to understand the nature of man as well as choose a future course of action.”

Ha! And they say that Ron Saxton is too busy to care about history, but here are the details of his education plan—and you see that history is mentioned twice—in the same paragraph! Ha!

“2.4.1 English shall be taught as the official language…. English education for non-English speaking students should be accomplished by immersion. We also encourage adult legal immigrants to learn English.”

Ha! Immersion in prison! Efficiencies! Foreigners are criminals! Let them learn English in jail where they belong! Ron Saxton will stomp the nose of the camel, the nose that is peeking under the tent of our beloved America.

”2.4.3 Science curricula shall accommodate diverse theories of origins.”

Ha! Ron Saxton will turn the tables on the kookoo balls who claim that Americans were descended from monkeys. Maybe foreigners were descended from monkeys, but that is not Oregon’s problem.

”2.10. We encourage the inclusion of voluntary firearms safety and hunting safety curricula as well as the support of rifle and other marksmanship clubs in government schools.

Ha! Guns in schools! With proper safety and training! Provided by parents and the Creator! Ha! Is that enough detail for you? The critics are confounded.

”2.12 We support the abolition of the United States Department of Education and the Oregon Department of Education.”

Yes! Abolish them! Abolish them all! Our beloved Republican Candidate for Governor will abolish them! And the US Postal Service! Abolish! Abolish them! Efficiency! Genius!

”2.13. We support privatization of non-educational support services now being performed by government school districts to foster cost effectiveness in such areas as transportation, school meals, etc.”

Yes! As he has found efficiencies in the prison system, Ron Saxton has found similar efficiencies in schools. We spend too much money on buses and food in schools. Schools are for learning, and rifle practice.

”2.14. We stand opposed to state and federal funding of pre-schools including Head Start.”

Yes! Ron Saxton will eliminate all funding for Head Start and other feel-good inefficient programs. Ron Saxton will fund only efficient programs, taught by parents and/or the Creator.

Lastly, to those critics who have lambasted our beloved Republican Candidate for Governor Ron Saxton and the Republican Party platform for having no solution to the large size of classes in Oregon schools, I say “Ha!”

Ron Saxton has also solved this problem, the one of large classes, with a very simple solution: drywall. Drywall, installed by prisoners. Not foreign-word-speaking prisoners, but efficient American English-speaking prisoners. Ha! You want smaller class sizes, Ron Saxton will build them as small as you want.

"Taking away people's drivers licenses is hardly going to stop them from coming here to work."

"And it does nothing to stop them from driving either! The key still turns over the car whether you're state sanctioned to do so or not."

You people are kidding me, right? You really believe the objection to issuing licenses to illegal aliens is all about driving privileges? Unbelievable.

ou really believe the objection to issuing licenses to illegal aliens is all about driving privileges?

Perhaps you should explain what it is about. I really can't figure it out. Other than its a way to make immigration an issue in the election for governor. aka pure demagoguery.

Personally, I'd rather have people take the test, pay the fees, and (hopefully) get insurance if they're going to be driving around.

Precisely. The idea behind drivers licenses was to make the roads safe. I can't figure out what they have to do with immigration status.

Question:

Does anyone know anything about Ron Saxton's positon on Marijuana? I have been tirelessly trying to track down an answer and so far have come up with zilch. I am posing this question in address of the recreational, religious, industrial, and medicinal uses of the plant.

<h2>Thanks.</h2>