Saxtonville: Day Six
Kari Chisholm
Well, last night's debate didn't include a question about Saxtonville -- Ron Saxton's corrugated tin shed where his farm housed human beings, including possibly children.
But that doesn't mean that other bloggers aren't starting to pick up the Saxtonville story. Loaded Orygun is on it:
Even though local media says they've already covered this extensively--we've got some questions that remain unanswered. We're working to get those questions dealt with via our usual pain-in-the-ass phone calling, emails and records searching.
Local media, of course, haven't yet covered the story. They've talked about illegal immigrants, whether Saxton hired any, etc. But nothing about the Saxtonville shed.
Over at his blog, one-time congressional candidate Chuck Butcher has this to say:
So there are two issues about this housing, a) did it house legal or illegal workers and b) does this look like something a Governor of Oregon ought to find acceptable as housing for his employees. Now some folks have made an issue of Ron's $586,000 beach house, I don't care if it is a $40,000 beach house, he can afford a "vacation" home and he can afford a lot of things that do not include reasonable housing for employees.
And by the way, the folks at Loaded Orygun interviewed Kulongoski campaign manager Jim Ross about Saxton's hypocrisy. Here's the money quote:
No one from this campaign has ever gone on the record criticizing Ron Saxton for possibly hiring illegal immigrants. That's not the issue, either. The issue is that someone who touted his farm experience -- and may have hired illegal immigrants -- ran an ad blaming Governor Kulongoski for the illegal immigration in this state. He bullshitted the voters and said the lure for these human beings was our driver's licenses when everyone knows it's the minimum wage jobs on farms like Saxton's that draws illegal immigrants to the U.S.The issue is also that a real farmer and a responsible leader would not demagogue on the issue of illegal immigration, not only because of the obvious hypocrisy, but because that ad will make it that much harder for this nation to ever pass meaningful immigration reform that actually stops illegal immigration.
My only quibble is with "minimum wage jobs on farms like Saxton's" -- often, these jobs are sub-minimum-wage. Sometimes, they'll pay migrant workers per-piece rates that can't possibly hit minimum-wage levels. Illegal immigrants live in the shadows of life, and yes - they're illegally here - but it's the "illegal employers" that are to blame.
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connect with blueoregon
Oct 18, '06
I agree that Saxton's use of that "employee housing" is deplorable, and not the standard of judgment that a governer of a state should have, but there is so much emphasis being put here on one item of "news", about which there is little information beyond the pictures themselves.
What do we know? We know that Saxton owned a farm. We know that on that farm there is a corrugated shed. We know that individuals were made to live there and that the conditions were subhuman, judging by the photographs. Beyond that, there is not enough information to make this the big issue.
We should be using this as an indicator of Saxton's bigger pattern of lies, deception, and character. Why not use the space taken up by six days of coverage on "Saxtonville" to incorporate the Saxtonville information into a more comprehensive position against the candidate? Am I personally offended by the use of that building to house farm workers? I am, but I also wonder why we do not use this as a springboard to the bigger picture in the days running up to the election.
2:10 p.m.
Oct 18, '06
Read that Ross quote again, Tammy--it satisfies what you're looking for, IMO. Ross quite plainly says that Saxton's record regarding his business isn't really the issue. The issue is threefold, and does in fact create a springboard to the bigger picture:
1) Saxton is a hypocrite. 2) Saxton is a demagogue. 3) And Saxton is actually pushing the problem farther away from being solved--something he does on many other issues such as long term school revenue, environmental planning and public safety.
Oct 18, '06
Dateline: October 3rd, 2010
BlueOregon Headline:
"Saxtonville, Day One Thousand Four Hundred Forty Five"
Kari: get a clue. The reason nobody cares about this issue is because it isn't an issue. You are, however, endlessly amusing. So please keep it up.
Oct 18, '06
torridjoe: Read that Ross quote again, Tammy--it satisfies what you're looking for, IMO...
You are right, torridjoe. That does, to some extent satisfy what I am looking for and I agree, however, it is still getting top billing here, which only serves to keep the focus on a tiny piece of the larger picture that you so perfectly outlined.
3:13 p.m.
Oct 18, '06
Sasha...
Another troll! Another donation!
Thanks!
3:36 p.m.
Oct 18, '06
Kari is making a good point. Saxton, the man with no plan, says one thing and does another. Stay on it Kari, and thanks.
Oct 18, '06
Kari: You'd better re-think this anti-troll strategy. Unless you are comfortable with empowering us trolls with the ability to cause you to contribute your entire income to Democratic political committees.
Seems to me, far from discouraging trolls, you actually would encourage them to call your bluff. Assuming you actually did send the money, which nobody believes anyway.
Oct 18, '06
This is as smart as all of your reviews of Judge Mary Merten James' M37 ruling before the OSC ruling.
4:36 p.m.
Oct 18, '06
Kari,
Got your back.
Sasha,
Another troll, another donation!
and Howard,
YEEEAAAARRRRGGH!
Steve
Oct 18, '06
Sasha (x2) & Trolling along
Another 3 trolls, another 3 donations!
Thanks for the inspiration!
cheers, ~Garlynn
Oct 18, '06
Ok, so how large is each donation? I need to know so I know how many comments to post so that all your money is donated.
Oct 18, '06
Hypocricy, Demagogory, Lies, Saxton Down A Rabbit Hole, or, The Fantasy Life of a Wannabe Guv.
I just saw the latest TK ad, sounds like my Blog??? No, I didn't poach. Just wayyyy to obvious, Ronny.
Oct 18, '06
Yeah, TK is good for that. His closing line in yesterdays debate was identical to that of the far-right candidate in the Republican primary, State Senator Jason Atkinson. "I believe Oregon's best days are ahead of us not behind us."
Not that I'd accuse Ted of plagerism anymore than I'd say that Ron knowingly employed illegal aliens, as neither are terribly important. Doubt Ted was paying much more attention to your sleepy blog than Ron was to who was picking the crops.
Oct 18, '06
TK pay attention to my Blog? I don't quite write just for myself, but really, that's taking my egotism a little far.
hmm, hiring illegally is not an issue. Oddly enough the Federal Government would disagree with you - on paper.
Lets see how this plays out, rich Republican Guv candidate blasts illegal aliens now for votes, for profit he used them.
OR
Rich Republican Guv Wannabe whacks poor brown laborers for illegal actions, pets heads of rich white campaign donors for illegal hiring. Lessee class warfare and closet bigotry are liberal themes???
OR
Rich Republican Guv wannabe isn't subject to the same legal system as poor brown laborers, cuz that just ain't right...besides them cherrygrapes needs apickin...
OR
I-9 misuse, social security (FICA) fraud, I think adds up to felonies, ummm, well yes, felons can vote. Not TK's fault.
OR
Why would anybody want a Governor that is a corrupt liar and cheat? It's not an ISSUE??? Ron Saxton made it an issue. not the BO, not Chuck Butcher (well yes I did, a long time ago-but I have I-9s and all legal employees), not LO, not the Liberal Elite Blogosphere; Ron Saxton spent a bunch of money to make it an issue. Either you don't have a TV, or you're blind and deaf if you missed that. I give a rat's patoot that his policies are stupid - vote stupid if you care to - but I do care that he's a lying hypocritical piece of work. That flat out pisses me off. "Damn politicians," well, he's your guy and his crap isn't an issue... Pathetic.
12:17 a.m.
Oct 19, '06
What I find interesting about the "Saxtonville" story are the howls from all the trolls. The more the trolls pooh-pooh it as a non-issue, the more you know it has the potential to hit Saxton where it hurts.
The picture IS the story. Again: the picture IS the story. And, it's the trolls that can't handle the truth. They don't want the truth, because, deep down, in places they don't talk about at their fundraisers, they know that most people, when shown that Ron Saxton co-owned a farm and that he provided a shed reminiscent of the box from "Cool Hand Luke" to the workers on his farm as living quarters, would be repelled by it.
Steve
Oct 19, '06
Chuck,
Having read your comment at least a half dozen times, I think I see your point...sort of. You like Ted and Ron is a sleazy scumbag. That about right?
If so, you're wrong. I'm probably more cynical than the next guy, but even I can sense that both leading candidates in this race are basically decent men. Politics isnt for the faint of heart and they're playing the game. Ron hit Ted in a vulnerable spot and he has been weak on immigration policy. Come on, how long did it take Ted to realize that having DHS representatives at Mexican Consulate events wasnt such a good idea? Handing out drivers licenses to folks with nothing more than a Matricula card? Well, that's just plain dumb. It's not about "brown people", xenophobia or cretinsim, it's just plain bad policy.
You're absolutely right about holding employers accountable, but the same goes for government. If you have some damning info about the farm Saxton was part owner of, by all means present it. An exterior photo of a building falls way short.
Oct 19, '06
Garlynn:
Are you donating to candidates in California, your state of residence, or to candidates in Oregon?
If you're donating to candidates in Oregon, I would prefer that donations made in the name of Mister Tee be directed to:
Paul Evans 2006 PO Box 2244 Salem, OR 97308
Why? Because any Democrat that is part of the Bush/Cheney precision bombing machine fighting the War on Terror is a True American Hero (in this troll's book). Sgt. Evans deserves the support of all Patriotic, Support the Troops, Bomb them Into Submission progressives in Oregon (or California, Garlynn).
Support the Troops: DONATE TO PAUL EVANS 2006. Because you can bet that his Air National Guard service is going to cost him more than a few votes from the yippies, 60's throwbacks, and doe-eyed peaceniks in his district.
Paul Evans it redeploying just 2 days before the election: LIGHT 'EM UP! Hoo-Rah!
Oct 19, '06
TROLL ALERT....TROLL ALERT....TROLL ALERT....
Please get out your VISA cards and send money to Democrats so that they can spend even MORE money advertising on Kari's non-profit web-site!
I have heard, through the grapevine, that in addition to an expensive beach house, Ron Saxton like to drink $4.00 lattes instead of cheap, home brewed Folgers. What an elitist!
FULL DISLOSURE: I personally have an ownership interest in Citigroup. Every time you use your VISA card to make a political donation, Citigroups revenues go up as they are a majority owner of VISA.
Oct 19, '06
I'm trying to figure out which issue is the stickler regarding "Saxtonville." Is it the living conditions, or the possibility that illegal labor was employed, or both. According to Steven Davis, "The picture IS the story. Again: the picture IS the story." If that is the issue, I think it may be much ado about nothing. All we have is a picture of the outside. It may be very inexpensively constructed, and unappealing to look at, but that doesn't mean it is filthy and uninhabitable. It may not qualify as a destination resort for most of us, but it may be very functional and comfortable. The bottom line is, we know none of that, and trying to build a case for deplorable living conditions based on the picture is unsupportable.
Many of these farms have received federal housing money (in the form of loans) to provide worker housing. They are required to meet acceptable standards of sanitation and liveability in exchange for an annual reduction in the interest rate on the loan. They have to apply for the reduction every year, contingent upon inspection of the housing. I have made numerous such inspections over the years. Not many of these housing units are very eye-catching, but most of them are decent places to live. I cannot vouch for either the squalor or the splendor of "Saxtonville," but the pictures tell us nothing. Unless you've got first-hand accounts attesting to the deplorable internal conditions of the "shed," I recommend that you drop this as an important issue being ignored by the msm.
Hammer Saxton all you want for his duplicitous fomenting on the "illegals," but quit fishing for a scoop on the sheds, unless you've got more compelling evidence than an unflattering photograph.
10:20 a.m.
Oct 19, '06
Sponge,
On second thought, you're right - you can't tell anything from the outside of that building. There might be some fine executive washrooms down in the belly of that thing, complete with Louis Philippe fixtures (the same kind that the Duke took for steering contracts to MZM).
I can't wait to see footage of Ron Saxton standing in the doorway, leading the camera inside of it to show the world how totally liveable these accommodations were.
Steve
Oct 19, '06
Steven,
No need to wax so eloquently smart-assish. I made no suggestion that these could be mistaken for defining the lap of luxury. They may indeed be unimaginable hell-holes. However, my own experience has shown me that a view of the outside simply doesn't tell the whole story. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but that doesn't mean they are all true. Spin the picture any way you want, Steven. I'm just suggesting that reasonable people withhold judgement until they have some actual facts.
Oct 19, '06
Ever get the feeling that you're beating a dead horse?
Oct 20, '06