Saxtonville: Day Five
Kari Chisholm
So... what could be said about Ron Saxton's substandard migrant housing that hasn't already been said?
As one commenter noted yesterday, Saxton's got a beach house in Neskowin (which was reported by the Oregonian):
So Saxton owns a nice place in Portland, a vineyard in Rickreall, a house at the beach and this is the best he can do for his workers. He can rent an extra apartment to get his kid into the right school but he can't make a decent place for his workers.
Another commenter dug into the public records and found that the beach house was valued at $576,038. And that's just a vacation home!
Compare and contrast to this place:
Why does Ron Saxton think that any human beings should live like this? Whether they're documented or not, it's completely unacceptable to cram people into a corrugated tin shed. As another commenter noted on Sunday:
Migrants often travel with their families: Was Saxton housing children in his barn?
So far, our state's media just isn't covering the story. It was on KPOJ's Thom Hartmann Show this morning (admittedly, because I was on the air.) Ron Saxton himself even admitted to the "migrant camp and everything" on the Lars Larson Show.
Well, tonight's the gubernatorial debate on KGW-8. Let's see if we can't get KGW to ask Ron Saxton the basic question: Why does he think human beings should live in a tin shed? And why didn't he and his partners provide better housing if they were going to profit off their labor? What did they charge these migrant laborers to live there?
Call KGW at 503-226-5000. Ask them to ask Ron about his shoddy housing at tonight's debate.
[Full disclosure: I built TedForGov.com and SaxtonWatch.com, but I speak for no one but myself.]
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Oct 17, '06
Kari you are officially over the edge.
Was it the Oregonian endorsement that gave you the last push?
9:28 a.m.
Oct 17, '06
Hi Sasha. The O endorsement was absurd. Strip off the headline and the first and last paragraphs, and you wouldn't know it was an endorsement for Ron.
Anyway.... I just called KGW. Here's the best part: Their front desk person (who is quite lovely, friendly, and helpful - so be nice to her) has been told by the news department that they've covered this story already, "extensively."
Of course, that's not exactly true. They've covered the question of whether Ron Saxton hired illegal immigrants.
But they haven't covered the corrugated tin shed where Ron Saxton thought it was appropriate to house human beings - illegal or otherwise - including, perhaps, children.
So... 503-226-5000.
Oct 17, '06
I begin to wonder whether the "masters" of this site are interested in policy or only the mindless bashing of Republicans.
On the off chance that a discussion of policy is in order, note that virtually every orchard and large farm in the northwest had "migrant housing" as part of the operation during the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. In the 80's various government agencies began to oversee the housing offered to migrants, and to impose various health and safety requirements. At first, most farmers tried to comply with the requirements, however as the regulations become more and more stringent, most farmers closed down their migrant housing rather than comply with the expensive regulations. I suspect this is the category that the Saxton facilty falls into. In any event, closing down the migrant housing offered by farmers and orchardists had the result of forcing the migrants to sleep in their cars or in ad hoc camps which were, in my opinion, a lot more dirty and dangerous than the previously offered housing.
Mr. Saxton and I share a common profession. I believe he would make a terrible governor and that virtually all Republicans are self-serving liars. I continue to advocate for health care, housing, food banks, child care, and education for all regardless of ability to pay. But in my opinion articles like this are ignorant of the realities of agriculture, and do nothing to focus the debate on the issues.
9:42 a.m.
Oct 17, '06
Kari, thanks for staying on this story. It's important.
When I was in my early 20's I traveled for about a year and a half through Mexico and Central America. I met the nicest families, and many communities were disproportionately female because the men had to go north to work. They would have preferred to stay home and work -- but jobs were hard to come by, and most employers in Mexico fell short of laying the minimum wage of $4-5 per day. Trained nurses in Guatemala made $90 a month.
People dreamed of coming to the U.S. and had enthusiastic conversations about the money they could send home. But in less guarded moments people would tell me that they had heard stories of their friends-of-friends being subjected to humiliation and danger, of having to eat out of trash cans, and of being mistreated by employers and people in general.
This was embarrassing to me because in their country, I was offered whatever food they had, even though they had to buy one day's worth of food at a time because they didn't even have enough extra income to buy ahead.
A friend of mine who wanted to come into the US said that the hoops he would have to jump through to get here included showing that he had $14,000 in savings. Most Mexicans do not even have $3 in savings, and don't make $14,000 in a lifetime. So when we say "illegal is illegal," we should be aware that 1) people are motivated to do better by their families, and 2) doing things legally is impossible for many of these people.
Oct 17, '06
Bluenote: In any event, closing down the migrant housing offered by farmers and orchardists had the result of forcing the migrants to sleep in their cars or in ad hoc camps which were, in my opinion, a lot more dirty and dangerous than the previously offered housing.
You don't see any linkage between that free will choice by orchardists like Saxton and oh... I dunno... say a $576,038 vacation house? Please! Nobody forced him to choose his own padded luxury over the most basic housing standards that he obviously would consider absolutely necessary for his own family.
It's a legit issue.
As for whether his labor camp housed legal or illegal migrants... I do not find it credible to assume that during the period when Saxton became financially vested in the orchard that his labor force was dominated by legal migrants, much less comprised completely of legal migrants.
In the early 80's I worked with many migrants in Washington County working in the wholesale nursery stock business. Very, very few of them were here legally. And most lived in much better housing than what Saxton Inc. offered.
Later in the early 90's I lived near a labor camp in the same general area and actually sold an old Datsun car to one guy who had only been in the country for a week, quite illegally.
Oct 17, '06
BTW, on the issue of farmers/orchardists and the legal status of their favorite migrant work force...
Granted, this comes from New York state rather than from Oregon... but it's also worth noting how much further New York is from our Southern border than Oregon is:
immigration raids crimp New York Farms.
Oct 17, '06
Kari,
It appears the issue of migrant housing is a very important issue to you, considering the amount of time you've put into this. Two questions:
<h1>1)What exactly has Gov Ted and Democrats done over the past four years to provide for the housing needs of this group?</h1> <h1>2) Considering the fact that you have been paid by the Kulongowski campaign for web-site work, and activlely campaign on his behalf on this site, is Gov K required to report you time spent on Blue Oregon and its'advertising value provided to Gov K's campaign as an in-kind contribution?</h1>Oct 17, '06
Day five, and this is still a non-story. I'm pretty sure this will continue to be a non-story, despite your best efforts to nitpick and suggest otherwise.
11:20 a.m.
Oct 17, '06
Dan, first of all, there's no Dubya in Kulongoski.
Second, expenditures from the campaign to my company are fully disclosed in their C&E reports. As I've said over and over, I don't speak for the Governor or his campaign. I write what I want, when I want to. (And believe you me, they're not always happy with my choice of topics.)
Third, for campaign finance purposes, BlueOregon fits under the media exemption. It's owned by a for-profit corporation (Mandate Media Inc.), covers lots of stories on many topics, and is published year-round.
It is, of course, an opinion publication. That means we're not unbiased. I suggest you read Jeff Alworth's post on ethical blogging. (And note that Jeff, a co-founder of BlueOregon, isn't employed by campaign in any capacity.)
Finally, as I've told our contributors when they join us, riding a hobby horse is accepted in political blogging. (Have you seen how much Lamont/Lieberman stuff goes on at DailyKos?) And, it seems, our audience loves it too -- yesterday was one of our biggest traffic days in months.
Enough meta-discussion. Back to Saxtonville.
Oct 17, '06
I don't know what's wrong with these people. It seems like a perfectly legitimate point to me.
11:30 a.m.
Oct 17, '06
Dan, if you want to show us the labor housing on the farm that Kulongoski owns, I'd be happy to discuss it. Of course, I don't recall Ted trying to make an issue of immigration laxity, while shrugging his shoulders about the laxity of his own business practices in the matter.
This isn't about Ted's farm. It's about Saxton's. I have one question for you:
1) Do you consider it morally appropriate to house highly exploitable workers in substandard, apparently unregistered housing, when one's income would support proper living conditions?
11:40 a.m.
Oct 17, '06
Dan, if you want to show us the labor housing on the farm that Kulongoski owns, I'd be happy to discuss it.
BWAH HA HA! Damn right.
Oct 17, '06
Let's see, schools fallin' 'part, folk can't afford to see a doctor, crime and drugs on the increase, corporations not payin' their fair share. An' all you gen'uses can come up with is this?
Who cares? Only poly-wonks.
Stop with the micro-issues an' start focusin' on the big picture already, will ya. Use that lump on yer head and come up with answers that people can believe in. No 'xcuses! Get Dems elected!
I swear to the almighty you'all couldn't win an 'lection if your guy was the only one on the ballot.
Oct 17, '06
"Kari you are officially over the edge."
I concur. No offense, but this ongoing Saxtonville saga is pretty darn thin.
It's an exterior photo of a building with corrugated aluminum siding. Let's assume it was a bunkhouse for farm hands or migrant housing at one time. What's inside? Who lived there and when? How many? What were the living arrangements and conditions? Who did they work for? Fill in the rest of the blanks and then determine if you have a story or not.
12:13 p.m.
Oct 17, '06
Kari is merely pointing out the obvious. Saxton says one thing and does another. I swear Saxton's the most inauthentic candidate the Republicans have thrown at voters in years.
Oct 17, '06
Kari, this is a valid issue especially because Saxton has made his extreme views on immigration an issue in his campaign. But posting it on a liberal blog will never get news coverage. Either Ted and his campaign have to make it an issue (and probably correctly, they won't) or a Blue Pac needs to put it in a TV ad. Then, and only then, will it get any play. Its a national problem for the Dems, not just in Oregon, but the people with money and power in the party have no clue how to get their points out there.
Oct 17, '06
Dear lightweights (Kari and TJ)
Thanks for making my point. Your fake concern over the plight of migrant worker housing is offensive.
Neither of you give a damn about the subject. It is nothing but politics for either of you.
Once again, please name all of the things that Kulongoski has done for the migrant worker. He is the leader of this state, and has the ability to use the media, and push his agenda. Did he?
I asked that because I don't know.
Kari, as a media organization, aren't you supposed to provide equal time? The monetary value of your fee work for the Gov must be worth something. Your attacks are campaign work, not media news coverage.
12:29 p.m.
Oct 17, '06
Ooooh, I can hardly wait to see what Day Six will hold.
12:37 p.m.
Oct 17, '06
Dan, no matter how many times you try to distract from the discussion of SAXTON'S ethics, based on his own ill-fated attempt to score political points on the subject, this has nothing to do with Ted. I can tell you what Ted HASN'T done--he hasn't owned a labor camp with crappy housing.
Of COURSE it's about politics. It's an ELECTION, remember? And the election is to decide who is better equipped to run the state government. It's becoming clear that the smoke-and-mirrors hypocrite with an (R) next to his name is fundamentally ill-equipped.
Finally, you don't seem to understand the concept of "media exemption." There is no equal time requirement anymore; thank the Republicans for that.
Oct 17, '06
Dan: Neither of you give a damn about the subject. It is nothing but politics for either of you.
Um... no particular offense intended here, Dan... but who exactly do you think you are fooling with that line?
It's all political. By definition. Duh. Anyone voicing any opinion whatsoever, regardless of whether it's pro or con, is engaging in an inherently political discussion.
The fact that it's all political implies precisely nothing about whether Kari or TJ actually care about the plight of immigrant labor or not.
Oct 17, '06
Wasnt Saxton also still a Democrat back when he was part owner of that farm?
The commercial that gets me is the one where they say Saxton is against enforcing laws punishing employers for hiring illegals.
Notice they dont say Ted is for it, but thats not the point, right? Because I bet he is against it too. But they insinuate otherwise.
As for the illegals...well, if they were documented the farmer couldnt legally pay them under the table, and would have to pay them the min. wage, right? So they could afford to rent a place to live.
But the bottom line is, they are illegal. Send their butts home and this problem goes away.
Oct 17, '06
Anyone else notice that China put a fence on its border with North Korea in less than a week??
It can be done, our government just doesnt want to.
2:32 p.m.
Oct 17, '06
that's because it doesn't work, Jon. And are you preparing to defend the Chinese governmental model as one we should espouse in "getting things done?"
Oct 17, '06
Smoke and mirrors, exactly, hmm, that gives me a thought.
10:28 p.m.
Oct 17, '06
Dan-troll wrote...
Kari, as a media organization, aren't you supposed to provide equal time? The monetary value of your fee work for the Gov must be worth something. Your attacks are campaign work, not media news coverage.
Actually, no. That used to be true for people using the public airwaves, but Reagan abolished the fairness doctrine. It's never been true for the print media, and no one has suggested such a thing for internet media.
Have you ever noticed the Weekly Standard or The Nation offering equal time for their ideological opposites? Didn't think so.
Nice try though.
Oct 17, '06
The Mainstream media will never cover this 1) it would require effort, 2) it conflicts with the ad revenue Saxton has poured their way (on TV) 3) The state's largest paper just endorsed him and coupled it with a "profile" that could be summed up as "Ron likes to barbecue".
He and the national R machine decided to make immigration their issue dujour. He doesn't like answering for this, maybe he shouldn't have run his BS ads or started the race baiting. All he had to do was tell his staff "no, I don't want to run that ad on immigration. It's not right, and I can win on the real issues". But he didn't.
I fail to see why R's keep chiming in here. Their media (Oregonian, TV) isn't going to cover it, so it's just a bunch of us blue types blogging to each other about it. Seems like they'd be fine with that.
Oct 18, '06
Kari's interest in Saxton's mistreatment of illegal aliens is a lot like Madonna's interest in the plight of Malawi's Orphans.
They both feign interest in the broad scope of the problem, but the narrow scope of their proposed solution (adopt one child/defeat Ron Saxton) belies their true interests.
They both have a proud history of exploiting the mainstream media, and now they're SHOCKED AND DISMAYED that anybody would question their motives.
Both Teddy K and Madonna have sufficient power and influence to have impacted public policy in their respective areas of interest (lack of affordable housing for farmworkers/Malawi's large number of orphans). Heretofore, they've done NOTHING.
Neither of them (or Teddy K.) have previously expressed any concern about the plight of the oppressed (orphans/aliens) until this single magnanimous act of self indulgent folly.
12:04 a.m.
Oct 18, '06
Just one more time: It's Ron Saxton who raised the question of illegal immigration.
Go away, troll. This site isn't for you.
Oct 18, '06
Calling you a hypocrite and an opportunist doesn't make me a troll. You are using the strawman "inhumane housing" allegation against Saxton the same way that he is using the "soft on illegal aliens" allegation against Kulo.
In both cases, you are using unfair characterizations for purely partisan advantage. The SHOCK and DISMAY fails to register with any sincerity in both examples. That's why the MSM doesn't take you seriously.
Go Troll yourself.
Oct 18, '06
I used to work on a farm when I was a kid and we had Mexican migrant workers with their families (including kids) and yes, they all lived in a the same type of Saxtonville.
Even as a kid I was surprised that there were that many people living in the same place. I don't even think they had a shower. I think they actually used a hose out behind the building.
Oct 18, '06
Kari would have to impeach the President of Mexico if he saw how most Mexican farmworkers are living back home. Or (at least) criticize all those "wealthy" farmers around election time. Until 1991, peasant farmers (called ejidatarios) were prevented from owning their land (they were treated more like sharecroppers). As Mexican Socialism (inclduing redistribution of farm land) evolved into welfare capitalism, most of these ejidos were effectively privatized, and the sharecroppers gained title to their lands. Then came the ability to use your land as collateral, and to fail to repay your loans, and have your home/land seized by the bank.
Migrant workers come here for a reason: it's the opportunity to earn higher wages and to create a better future. They endure many privations and hardships, largely in order to send more money to families back home. If we had a mechanism that allowed them to come here to work, and then go back home with the knowledge that their return to the U.S. would be legally permitted, then it would decrease the pool of farmworkers that are unable to scratch out a living in the off-season, and reduce the demand for company provided shelter (at least during the winter).
Also: my apologies to Madonna...she reportedly pledged $3 million dollars to the orphans who remain in Malawi. I was unaware of this largesse when I compared her cravenness to Kari's.
Assuming she fulfills her $3 million pledge, it appears that Kari is much more craven than Madonna.
Oct 18, '06
Ted Kulongoski and his apparachiks in government officially reached out and encouraged illegal aliens to come to Oregon. From the Carousels of Crime--giving away social services to legally questionable recipients, to making it easy for at least 80,000 illegals--that we know of--- to receive driver's licenses (Robleto trials anyone?) AND THEIR VOTER REGISTRATION, Ted Kulongoski bears direct responsibility for his government's response to this and his outward encouragement of it. Your recent picture of a run down building is touching but can you vouch that it was in this condition at the time Ron Saxton owned 20% of the orchard and only did the legal work for it? By the way, during the previous incarnations of guest worker programs employers have to house their workers. With the plentiful supply of illegal workers in Oregon--thanks to the aforementioned policies--they no longer need to house them.
10:28 a.m.
Oct 18, '06
Victoria, quit making shit up about undocumented people voting. It makes you look idiotic in face of the facts.
Oct 18, '06
So, Kari, how long you gonna let that testerone-challenged troll called "Mister Tee" to pollute this board so that it starts to looking (and smelling) like the "superfund" site in Linnton?
I say "be gone" with it.
It.
Oct 18, '06
What does the term "Troll" signify?
<h2>So, are "righties" not encouraged to be on the sight? I recall you being quite please that many of the people who took your survey were "moderate" and it appears a few of us are conservative and enjoy discussing the issues.</h2>