At an average of $45,000.00 and health benefits that most people have not and a retirement program to kill for; and all for a slave driving 175 or less days of work.Oh the shame of it. If all the taxes collected in the state were to given to the school districts they still would want more. At one time I had close hand on how the schools would spend money and it was disgraceful how Portland Public schools would buy the best and most expensive products when cheaper and as good generics were available. Audits of proficiency? Not on school districts. Just a better way to whine and wring those hands.

Chuck, while I agree with the sentiment behind your poster regarding our government's priorities, there is only one problem with that phrase - the schools will NEVER have enough money...they always come asking for more. Until we can free the school system from the iron grasp of the teachers unions and introduce incentives for acheivement, competition, and common sense, we'll continue to spend ourselves into oblivion on education without a whole lot of results.

I agree, I don't think we should vote for politicans who undermine our public institutions, but then again, I don't think we should support those who settle for the status quo and try to solve problems just by throwing more money at it. I agree with you - corporations should be paying more of the freight in this state - but we shouldn't just hand the money over to a system that is broken in the first place...we should fix it.

I know I'll get flamed by all the union supporters hanging out here, and that's ok with me. I still remember the public school official who told me I was ruining my daughters life by pulling her out of her school. I'd love to find that administrator and tell her about my daughter's national merit status, 90% scholarship to a private college, and college degree with honors. Terrible what I did to her, isn't it?

I can't see how putting all the power of government in the state in the hands of one party (See Washington, DC) will solve much of this problem. We need new ideas, not new money, to solve our school problems. Saxton certainly doesn't have them (gee, let's fire all the public employees and try to hire them back at a cheaper rate the next day - what an idiot!), and though I voted for him, I'm not convinced that Ted does either. So while you might be enthusiasitic, those of us in the lonely middle aren't too excited for election day to come except for the fact that we will be spared all those inane political commercials.

In KISS' utopian world, Oregonians would not require a Master degree to teach, just a GED. This way we could pay teachers minimum wage with no benefits, turning them into real McTeachers (at least when it comes to pay).

Here in the real world, last year my daughter's elementary school ran out of money for art supplies in October, and the local PTA had to start paying for them. In unrelated news, last year the budget for corrections in Oregon was increased by 33% over the previous biennium, to a record $1.2 billion.

John, how perceptive to read what I did not write. How sad your daughter cannot make it on 45 grand for 175 days of work. Elementary art, when I went to school: I had to furnish Paints, Crayons, scissors, paste, and cigar box, and a ruler...the school was obligated to give us butcher paper and occasionally craft paper for special projects. We seemed to have done well. So what are needs of todays wonder kids? What I find so amusing is that there are few requirements to teaching. Very seldom does a teacher teach the discipline learned in college.Math and science are not usually taught by someone who has a degree or even a minor in that discipline. A liberal arts degree with a year of learning a teacher's[ teaching procedure] certificate is all. In fact one can take education as the Major..but can teach math or science etc. etc. But even with all this said...my main concern is with the administration...why has the administration never dealt with classroom disruptor's? In Japan 50 students in a classroom works well, why not here?

We need to improve our schools to meet global competition and to thereby protect our way of life. Students in China and India (and more recently Vietnam) are excelling in math, science, engineering, etc. Their colleges are turning out engineers and math Ph.Ds at a rate that is 10 times the US rate even when adjusted for per capita population differences. We need to attract well qualified science and math teachers to the public schools. To compete with private industry for the best science and math minds, the public schools may need to pay them twice what we pay English or Social Studies teachers, who are very plentiful. However, it is that sort of creative thinking that is very unpopular with the public employee unions.

KISS- Have you ever known a teacher? Do you know what their schedule is even like? Out of the 5 teachers I know every single one of them pulls between 12-14 hour days working. They get to school over an hour before the kids, they leave at around 5 or 6. Then they have to go home and eat or prepare food for their kids. Then they spend an hour or 2 after that grading papers. By the way do you really think they're making $45,000? One of my friends just got a raise. He's 33 and he's been teaching since he graduated college at 24. He is now making $37,000. Granted he has switched districts but lets not pretend that the average teacher actually makes 45,000. If our President would really like to invest in our schools maybe he should have rethought his Iraq policy and plunged our country into the greatest debt we've ever been in to raise our schools to be the best in the world instead of wasting it in Iraq. Last I heard our schools weren't even in the top 40 world wide. So KISS before you start railing on teachers salaries and why they get 2 months off maybe you should go pull a few months worth of 14 or 15 hour days for the same money they make and see if you like it very much?

Whenever someone treats Oregon's public schools as heomgeneous we usually get garbage such as: "schools have not been adequately funded for quite some time"

The reality of school funding in Oregon was more accurately described in a April 8, 2005 Oregonian article by Betsy Hammond: "STATE SCHOOLS CHIEF QUESTIONS LEVEL OF DISTRICT RESERVES."

Betsy pointed out that "More than half of Oregon school districts ended the 2003-04 school year with more than 20 percent of their general fund money unspent"

This to me is confirmation that there is not the "inadequate funding" problem in Oregon Public K-12 that some folks like to harp on. There are revenue and spending aspects to school district budgets. And the overspenders ought to clean up their acts.

I am unsympathetic to those districts, such as Portland, that have been getting away with unsustainable spending, golden parachutes, underpopulated school buildings etc. enabled by bailouts, foundations and local option bond measures.

There is a whole lotta truth that needs telling in the area of public school spending in Oregon.

The old suicide routine..Ah Huh. better check your social studies again Oh Ya, English, isn't your forte either "If he was a teacher" Try the word were. But again, you are a teachur. Hey Garrettt I knew a teacher that drove a Rolls Royce..so what. Yup, I know a few teachers, they do work overtime..and are quite happy with the money they make. Again, another one that does not read...I said nothing about teachers. They make good money and I have NOT complained about that. I'm really tired of whining.

KISS- You are simply a lost cause. You don't think or reason about anything so you just try and belittle people. Speaking of reading my name only has 2 ts. I really doubt you know a lot of teachers that are happy with the money they make.

At an average of $45,000.00 and health benefits that most people have not and a retirement program to kill for; and all for a slave driving 175 or less days of work.Oh the shame of it.

What I find so amusing is that there are few requirements to teaching. Very seldom does a teacher teach the discipline learned in college.Math and science are not usually taught by someone who has a degree or even a minor in that discipline. A liberal arts degree with a year of learning a teacher's[ teaching procedure] certificate is all. In fact one can take education as the Major..but can teach math or science etc. etc.

How are those not comments about teachers? Read your own posts.

Howard- You do make some good points. I will say this though. I have been spending a lot of time recently at Marshall High. Why does it look like it's being held together with duct tape if there is so much money in the school budgets? I understand mismanagement by the PPS board (Ron Saxton) but as much as I understand your argument I don't understand why you seem like you want to pass it on to the kids? The kids don't control the PPS board but they have to go to Marshall High where the same graffiti has been spray painted along the East side windows for the last 3 months and the gym looks like disaster victims have been living there for a month.

Hi folks:

KISS, if you are tired of whining then I suggest that you stop whining. Rational discourse tends to reinforce rational discourse.

At age 60 I'm still working in a truck shop as a mechanic even though I have a teaching certificate [shop!] and an advanced degree. My wife, on the other hand, went into the teaching profession at age 56 after 35 years as a waitress and bartender. Her initial reaction was extreme dismay due to the high levels of behavioral problems, low levels of parent interest and involvement and the staggering amount of bureaucratic paperwork. She commented that some of the kids and parents had behavior problems that would have gotten them 86'd from any bar.

Salary??? about $26K for a 12 month contract with pretty decent benefits. Time worked??? Let's see, 10-12 days during the week, at least one 8 hour weekend day dedicated to reading and correcting papers, tests, etc. A number of nights and weekends with parent-teacher conferences both formal and informal. Countless hours with mainstreamed kids unable to keep up with the most basic work required. Oh, yeah....also the teaching to test for all the NCLB requirements. That extended summer time off?? Gimme a break. Advanced level classes to keep up in the field, advanced placement and tutoring for those kids who really believed in education and, of course, syllabus prep for the next year.

KISS...please don't demean people who work long, hard hours just because you're unwilling to understand the complexity and challenge of their work.

thanks for the opportunity to comment.

Garrett:

Thank you for the kind remarks and the question: "Howard- You do make some good points. I will say this though. I have been spending a lot of time recently at Marshall High. Why does it look like it's being held together with duct tape if there is so much money in the school budgets?

In reply to the question I can only suggest that the housekeeping and maintenance at each of the district's high schools be scrutinized. If some pass muster and some do not, the deficiencies are most likely the result of priorities at district or building level.

As to your charge that I am "passing it (the financial pain) on to the kids, I strongly suggest that those who have been setting the spending priorities (dozens of people besides Ron Saxton) have been "passing the pain" on to the kids in the Portland district.

The legislature sends money to each district according to availability. The budgetary incompetents have no right to demand blank checks to cover their ineptitude.

Howard,

Good answer. I really doubt that the maintenace crew is the problem. Marshall is in a crappy neighborhood and has a large ethnic student enrollment. Considering Grant High and Lincoln High look pretty good but are roughly the same age I would assume that is because PPS is passing the buck on a school like Marshall. In fact on Sunday there were 2 guys at Marshall painting the yellow curbs at Marshall on their own dime. They were janitors there. If they are there this Sunday again I'll be sure to ask them if they are the reason the inside of the school looks like hell.

I do still disagree that "budget ineptitude" should play a role in who pays for the terrible conditions some schools deal with. I graduated from a Utah high school 9 years ago and to be honest it was a terrible school district. My parents lived in an OK school zone and I did go to the other schools in our district for various reasons. I am shocked at the difference in schools here. Even in the rough areas of Salt Lake City (laugh all you want but they exist) the schools looked good. They even built a new one in the deepest of hoods in SLC. You do make good points that we shouldn't just throw money at the problem. That is one of the most messed up things that Portland has going for it. Schools like Jefferson, Madison, Marshall get SCREWED. Schools like Franklin, Grant and Lincoln get all the dough. Why is that? Because they have a good amount of rich kids going there?

KISS--you make it sound like no teacher ever has to take another college class once they start teaching (or would you rather they work 50 weeks a year and still have to take college classes at night--impractical in many communities unless you are talking about online classes). Do you advocate year round school? Or paying teachers per hour? Why would the best teachers remain in Oregon under those circumstances--or do you think teaching is easy work anyone can do?

More importantly, I'll believe you are serious about budgets and not just teacher bashing when you talk about administrator salaries.

There is a local legislator who says no one should ask him about the fact our school district employs 3 administrators who all work in the personnel area (HR Director, Director of Employee Relations, Director of Employee Staffing)."Go ask the school board". There have been attempts in past legislative sessions to regulate the collective bargaining process (incl. what topics are legitimate topics for collective bargaining) but no one wants to talk publicly about administrator pay. Why? Because they are management and not labor? Because they have a good lobby group?

Should those salaries -not to mention the same health benefits and retirement package as teachers- (public sector administrators are also public employees) be examined? Or are you one of those who says that if we went back 50 years before teachers were unionized all school funding problems would be solved?

5 members of my family (in 3 generations) have been teachers in multiple states, incl. my aunt in inner city schools (retired in the late 1960s).

A true discussion of school funding includes everything from the cost of transportation (esp. in geographically large rural districts), the cost of heating and upkeep for school buildings, the pay packages of ALL employees of a school district, incl. the school supt. and all other administrators.

KISS, when was the last time you visited a school? Do you believe that if only teacher pay were low enough there would be enough money in the budget for fixing leaky roofs and other maintenance problems?

KISS lives in a different reality.

Why do you suppose those who graduate with math and science degrees don't end up teaching in the high schools? Do you think that their degree provides them with more lucrative paying jobs than $45K for 175 days of contract work?

And you want to, what? Reduce teachers' pay more?

A former teacher, I find your nostalgia from the 50s touching, but society has, for most of us, changed in the last 50 years and so has the challenge for teachers.

Saxton believes he'll find efficiencies? What he'll find are the same inefficiencies he saw when he was on the school board and did nothing about. Golden parachutes anyone?

Randy2

How can you paranoids get it so wrong? I said the teachers salaries was not the issue, they are paid well, so be it. On going education? How about the paid sabbatical they get for a year? Why does every new school need a new architectural top drawer building. Can't the school district have a small, medium, large set of drawings and all buildings be produced at a great savings? Laidlaw does quite well in the busing business; is it cost effective? And still the proficiency reports are never done. Oh ya, 32 students were the norm in my day..we survived and somehow we became educated. My grandson is in a class of 300 in college and just somehow he has a 3.9 GPA.Let's just be honest schools are really warehouses for parents.