Why is voter turnout so low?

Russell Sadler

It is supposed to be an old political joke in election-ridden Oregon: “What if they held an election and no one came?”

It nearly happened. Only 39 percent of the registered voters cast ballots in the May primaries -- the third lowest turnout on the last 40 years. Only turnouts in 1994 and 1998 were lower, according to an analysis recently published by The Oregonian.

The newspaper’s analysis was conducted using the first statewide voter database required by the misnamed “Help America Vote Act” of 2002. Mining this database reveals voting patterns that were unobtainable when voting statistics were kept county-by-county.

Among voters 30-45 years old, barely 1 in 4 cast a primary ballot. The 30-35 year old voters were no more likely to cast ballots as 18-19 year olds, already notorious for not voting. By contrast, voters 57 years and older cast ballots at twice the rate of voters in their 20s, 30s and 40s.

The Oregonian’s analysis confirms the older you are, the more likely you are to vote. The news is in the breakdown of the age groups. Middle-aged primary voters are as likely not to vote as the youngest voters.

The Oregonian is concerned about the “disproportionate influence” of older voters. The poli-sci types wring their hands about the “shocking” lack of participation. In the wake of the May primaries the commentators worry about “apathy, indifference, lack of civic duty and the pathetic turnouts.” Wrong conclusions.

Other than an anecdotal interview, (“Gee, I was so busy I didn’t make time to vote,”) no one seems to have asked non-voters why they did not vote.

Years of asking non-voters why they did not vote yields unsettling conclusions.

Modern Oregon voter participation peaked in the early 1980s when Oregon permitted election day voter registration. In 1986, an unholy coalition of the homophobic Oregon Citizens’ Alliance and the “good government” League of Women Voters sponsored an initiative to successfully repeal election day registration and impose a 20-day registration deadline before an election. (Note: Correction below.) The OCA feared those who registered on election day were “liberals” and the League feared people who registered on election day did not agonize sufficiently over “the issues.” Wrong message. The response was an prompt drop in turnout, especially among 18-25 year-olds.

It used to be an unwritten rule of the Oregon Legislature: The leadership could not ask lawmakers to vote against their conscience or their constituents. No more. The evidence is overwhelming that legislators, especially Republicans, are now coerced by their “leadership” to vote to pass the legislation the leaders promised in exchange for contributions to finance their campaigns.

Both the Republican and Democratic parties are losing support. Neither represent a majority of voters any longer. About 38 percent are registered Democrats, 34 percent registered Republicans. Everyone else is registered independent or to a “minor” party. To maintain their dwindling control over the political system both Republicans and Democrats use redistricting to pack legislative districts with predictable voters while diluting independent voters by spreading them out in districts where they are impotent minorities, thus disenfranchising unpredictable independents. No wonder some voters get the impression their votes don’t count.

Some commentators complain children are not learning civics in school. Wrong problem. Most new voters don’t go to school here. They move here. If they do not learn “civics” in their adopted state, it is the fault of the news media which has the responsibility for the continuing education of adult voters.

But the media has abdicated that civic responsibility. We dumb down the vocabulary of civic life because some consultant told us it would stop the decline of readership and improve broadcast rating. We emphasize conflict and downplay process on the advice of the same consultants. Is it any wonder voters do not know how their government operates?

Other commentators argue people who do not vote have “lost respect for government.” Wrong conclusion.

The present government never had the respect of younger voters to lose. Younger voters have concluded the present style of conservative government -- they have never known anything else -- is dysfunctional and irrelevant to their lives. Or worse, with the excesses since the election of 2000, younger voters have concluded that conservative government is incompetent and corrupt and they no longer wish to legitimize it by participating in elections that choose candidates that do not represent their concerns.

These corrosive, contemptuous attitudes toward the present government -- not low voter turnouts -- are far more dangerous to the future of democracy.

Correction, 8/3/2006:

In the column above, I wrote that the Oregon League of Women Voters sponsored and endorsed Ballot Measure 13, the 1986 measure repealing election day voters registration and creating a 20-day registration deadline.

The League is not listed as a sponsor in the Oregon Secretary of State’s records. The 1986 Voters Pamphlet lists the League as opposing Measure 13.

There remain my notes from the 1986 election that suggest some county chapters of the League considered endorsing the measure. Of the two names listed in these notes, one person is no longer living. The other says she cannot accurately remember what happened 20 years ago. The event was memorable because endorsing a registration cutoff was unlike the League’s usual positions.

Apparently any effort by local chapters to endorse Measure 13 was defeated at a statewide meeting of the League, which I failed to record or remember. Apologies.

  • John (unverified)
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    Good try, Russ. You're missing the real problem. People don't vote because there aren't any candidates. I've voted in primaries and general elections for more than forty years. This time around I thought long and hard before voting. But for Pete Sorenson I would not have voted. Why bother, when there is only one candidate available in most 'races'? And then there is the problem that the only candidate or candidates have been pre-selected according to their ability to get support from monied interests, who have radically different expections about government than mine. How about letting us to vote 'yes' or 'no' when there is only one candidate?

  • Karl (unverified)
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    Russ, What a great analysis!

  • Eric (unverified)
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    There is low turnout for voting because our initiatives are stupid and mean spirited. Why vote for meanness or unintelligent drivel? Also - our candidates are so extreme that normal people are screwed no matter who wins. I always find it hard to vote because I am single with no wife, no kids, and seen as a pariah by the normal politician (as a canvasser told me once "one person does not make a family").

    It is best, sadky, to not vote for any candidate and to vote NO on all the garbage initiatives.

  • LT (unverified)
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    Great column, Russell!

  • Penny (unverified)
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    Great analysis. I'm also concerned that it is not just the traditional younger age groups that aren't voting, but that those cohorts may never vote. That makes the future pretty frightening. Some people are taking action now to turn this around. A big 'thank you' to the Oregon Bus Project for exciting and ambitious programs (Trick or Vote, Bus Trips, PolitiCorps, etc.) to involve young citizens in the political process. We need to follow their lead!

  • Christopher Nicholson (unverified)
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    The other states are not the only ones to blame for kids having a terrible education in civics. Oregon schools are just as bad as those in California, Washington, or any other state when it comes to learning about the fundamentals of government.

    "We dumb down the vocabulary of civic life because some consultant told us it would stop the decline of readership and improve broadcast rating."

    The media, just like any other business, will write, say, or show whatever makes money. For the last 50 years broadcast TV has been showing nightly news, and every decade the viewership of that broadcast has declined.

    "We emphasize conflict and downplay process on the advice of the same consultants. Is it any wonder voters do not know how their government operates?"

    When exactly have we emphasised process over conflict? -C.

  • Steve Bucknum (unverified)
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    Great work Russ -

    A couple comments -

    Christopher Nicholson writes, "When exactly have we emphasised process over conflict?"

    Well, I grew up in Portland where the three major network broadcast channels in fact did visit hearings, tell us how the process worked, and get interviews that enlightened the viewers as to what was really going on. You can make process interesting if you do it right. I didn't learn about Oregon's Joint Ways and Means Committee in school, I learned it watching Oregon TV. So, to answer the question, that would have been roughly from 1960 to 1970.

    John in the first posted response brings up an interesting point - part of why people don't vote is the lack of candidates. Well, John is right and wrong at the same time. On specifics, John you are wrong. Over here in the 2nd Congressional District, we had 4 strong and able candidates running for the Democratic Party nomination, and Democrats only voted a little stronger than the average for the State. Where you are right is that there are not enough contested races.

    I have been the Chair of the Crook Co. Democrats for the last two years, my term of office having ended (finally) just a few weeks ago. Crook Co. is less than half of our Legislative House District. I couldn't find anyone willing to run as a Democrat. We have thousands of Democrats, but the main reason none would run was that they could not afford to. I don't mean the cost of the race, I mean the cost of winning. If you win a seat in our Legislature, which is housed in Salem about 150 miles away, you literally have to give up your business or job and move to Salem for 6/7 months every other year, and be on call to run over to Salem for special sessions. I thought about running for the House seat - for about 1 minute. I'm a real estate appraiser. My work comes in one assignment at a time. If I'm not around, my work goes away, and the people that send me work (about half are out of State) go away permanently. The Legislative pay is so low as to not even cover my expenses of travel and lodging while in Salem. -- I'd have to be retired to afford to run for office.

    John, underlying the problem you stated is a more key problem - you have to have the wealth to run for office, win, and serve.

  • Andy N. (unverified)
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    Points well taken.

    Disclaimer: I'm a life-long Independent. Never registered for either party.

    I think that many people don't participate because of the current two party system. Let's face it, the Democratic party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the unions, the abortion rights lobby, etc, while the Republican party is beholden to corporate America and the NRA. So long as those interest groups wield such great power over the parties, we will continue to have gridlock. The real tragedy, particularly in Oregon, is that there are almost no conservative Democrats or liberal republicans left anymore. The Republicans and Democrats are losing support...because they both deserve to!

    By the way, this fall, I'm voting for the incumbant Governor because I think he really hasn't done a bad job. But you know what, I probably only agree with him on about 50 percent of the issues. I'm also voting for the Republican candidate for the Legislature, because I've seen what one-party rule has done at the federal level, and I'm quite convinced it will be just as bad if one party controls all the cards in the state. I'm always amazed at people on the blog who rail against the one-party rule in DC, but then turn around and advocate for the same thing (just different party) in Salem. No thanks!

    I agree with John (above)...I'd love to be able to vote "no" on candidates. If "none of the above" won the most votes, the parties would be forced to put up two new ones...and we keep at it until we get better people in office.

  • David English (unverified)
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    Russ,

    Very interesting work. Good point about a large block of voters coming from out of state (Damn Californians!). I think there are definately multiple reasons why Oregon has such low turn out.

    I still maintain voting is an act of civic responiblity.

  • progvoice (unverified)
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    Many non-voters insist it doesn’t matter how they vote, politicians represent their campaign contributors, not their constituents. They are not wrong.

    Well, I hope that you and all others that believe this statement (as I do,) support and vote for the campaign finance measures that will make the ballot in November.

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    Russell, you raise some interesting points. But there's a danger in basing statistics on percentages.

    According to the Secretary of State's office, here are the total number of ballots cast in May primaries in the last 3 midterm elections (state population 3.4 million):

    1998: 412,000 2002: 853,000 2006: 750,000

    The highly competitive 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections, and the major voter-registration drives that came along with them, massively increased the number of registered voters.

    I'd spin the numbers a little differently:

    Recent efforts (such as Rock the Vote and Building Votes to increase voter registration - especially among younger voters - have been very successful.

    That success must be carried over into the effort to make the act of voting a matter of habit for these newly-registered voters.

    Oregon's oft-praised Vote-by-Mail system does help keep Oregon's voter turnout slightly above the (anemic) national average. But its benefits apply mostly to people who stay in the same residence from one election cycle to the next...and people who tend to have stamps and so forth on hand. That is, older, more stable folks. Only one piece of the progressive base.

    Outreach to younger, more mobile citizens requires constant effort...aka shoe leather. So, progressives, get out there! Talk to some kids! Find out what's keeping them from voting, and help them out. Direct them to places to register to vote. Or to learn who's running in what district. Support the Bus Project with volunteer time or cold hard cash. Etc etc etc.

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    Russ, great analysis, though I think the problem runs deeper, which I'll get to in a minute.

    First, to John, I'm afraid you seem to have missed most of Russ's point. The question he seemed to be addressing was not why people who've "voted in primaries and general elections for more than forty years" weren't voting. The question is why 18-45 year-olds aren't voting. You say the problem is that the candidates aren't good enough, and I don't know which 18-40 year-olds you hang out with, but many of the ones I know don't even know who the candidates are. It's not that they've evaluated them and found them lacking, but they aren't even engaged enough to know they exist.

    On May 16th I was out hitting the campaign party circuit and a friend called who I hadn't talked to in several weeks. He asked what I was up to and when I told him he said, "oh yeah, I thought I heard something about an election..." He had no idea. He's also not registered to vote. I believe he's 26.

    The problem with my friend and so many of our generation is not that we've become disengaged, but that we were never engaged in the first place. If we want to talk about learning civics in schools, I'll tell you about my first lesson: I was in fourth grade when I first realized that government, and worse yet, the voters themselves, didn't care about me or anyone else but themselves. That was the year my school closed eight days early because taxpayers wouldn't pay the bills and government couldn't get it done.

    This generation doesn't vote because we, as a whole, have a complete lack of hope. We see what the politicians and the voting public have done to us and you're surprised we feel as if entire system has been set up to screw us from day one? Look at the crippling debt that's being passed to us. Look at the sad state of the schools we were taught in. Look at how few of us can afford health care. Look all the entry-level jobs that have been outsourced. Look at our friends being sent overseas to fight in a pointless war. And, to add insult to injury, this entire generation wants us to foot the bill for their retirement!

    If the problem was only with the politicians or with the system we could maybe work around it, but "we" don't even trust the voters; the general public. We're just fed up eating shit and being told it's ice cream.

    The problem is, it's a Catch-22. Politicians only care about people who vote. And young people don't vote because we know the politicians don't care about us. And we're not wrong. Elections are just a chance to choose who's going to screw us. I have so many days when I just want to throw my arms in the air, give up, and move to Canada. And maybe someday I will. But until then I guess I'll just keep beating my head against the wall, trying to effect change, and trying to convince my friends to vote, because even if the next politician screws us just as badly as the previous ten, at least it's something to talk about at 1am on a Sunday night...

  • John (unverified)
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    Let me elaborate on my comment that the problem is that there are no candidates, which is both a symptom and a cause.

    The job of a candidate is to stir up interest in the election among each of his/her consituencies. With more candidates, more constituencies get targeted. Really good candidates in competitive races realize that the outcome can hinge on a few votes and try to reach out to broader constituencies by understanding and responding to their needs. They make the stakes of not voting clear. When there is only one person running (the prevailing condition in most primary elections), the candidate just coasts, stirs up no interest, making a lack of candidates a cause for low voter turnout.

    Low voter turnout is also a symptom of the fact that neither the Party nor Monied Interests like competitive races. The Party prefers to reward its in-crowd of professional politicians, rather than serve as a gateway for myriad interests to access the political system. Outsiders are generally shunned. Monied Interests prefer to fund candidates who are known quantities and have a track record of putting their needs above all else. The result is a mediocre, loyal candidate who generates little interest among voters, except by positioning himself as the lesser of two evils in the general election.

    Civics lessons and media education may be great, but what we really need is to create a broad, popular awareness of the cynical way that Monied Interests and the Two Party Duopoly suppress the choice of candidates to keep potential voters' interests from being represented.

  • Sponge (unverified)
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    I have two points of disagreement with the analysis:

    "More sophisticated voters say voter registration is not designed to produce a large turnout. Voter registration is deliberately designed to produce a predictable turnout. They are not wrong."

    Voter registration is not "designed to produce" any kind of turnout; voter registration is designed to provide access to the process, and some credible structure for accountability.

    "To maintain their dwindling control over the political system both Republicans and Democrats use redistricting to pack legislative districts with predictable voters while diluting independent voters by spreading them out in districts where they are impotent minorities, thus disenfranchising unpredictable independents. No wonder some voters get the impression their votes don’t count."

    Redistricting has been a control issue with the big two for generations. Given that it occurs only once every ten years, I seriously doubt that it has the affect of "disenfranchising unpredictable independents" to the extent Mr. Sadler want us to believe.

    The analysis makes some good observations, but I don't think it contributes much of a guide for redress.

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    I'm not persuaded that the quality of the people running for office is any worse than it ever was. Scoundrels and scaliwags have always been part of the mix and statesmen/women much rarer than we'd like.

    I suspect that how the media work is part of it. As the Oregonian article pointed out, the turnout results are in line with the newspaper-reading stats.

    In fact, I thought that article was very well done and found the thoughts reported there more compelling than anything that Russell or anyone else here has added with one exception.

    I do believe that one thing that would increase the number of people who vote would be to go back to election day registration. If you are trying to build a voting habit one key is to start somewhere. When you start with half the eligible voters not registered you start out in a big hole.

    We cut off voter registration and send out the voter's pamphlets at just about the same time. We stop registering people right when electioneering is ramping up enough to start getting more people's attention.

    I think we overreacted to the Rajneesh attempt to take over Antelope. Attempts at that kind of mass fraud are obviously unusual and can be dealt with after the fact. It makes more sense to tighten up the rules and enforcement around residency or around aiding and abetting fraud, if necessary, than to restrict registration.

  • LT (unverified)
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    I don't know which 18-40 year-olds you hang out with, but many of the ones I know don't even know who the candidates are.

    In campaigns where the candidate is under 40 and/or the campaign manager is a local person under 40, those people already have friends under 40 and those friends can do outreach to their friends, etc. But then, I'm talking from the point of view of Marion County which had better May turnout than the average, and had campaigns with very active young people as candidates or staff.

  • Amanda Fritz (unverified)
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    I've found younger people to be more issue-oriented. They question the capacity of individual candidates to make much difference, and they want to do something themselves rather than relying on older people to fix problems. PSU hosted a candidates' forum on May 1 which about 20 interested students attended, while outside thousands of students rallied and marched in support of immigration rights.

    Before we expect young people to vote, we need to look at how they are (and aren't) given information in the corporate media and by other means, and whether indeed their opinions are valued. And we should look at culturally appropriate alternatives for reaching all underparticipating groups. My son took out ads on Facebook for me (college-specific web sites only open to college students). I would do more campus visits beyond Lewis & Clark and PSU, if I run again. I've found young people just as willing to engage as older folks, but they are more interested in personal, in-depth interactions rather than skimming a mailer or a paragraph in the newspaper. And if they don't believe they have enough information to make a reasoned, educated choice, they don't vote rather than voting blindly. That goes for the young-parents/workers age group, too. I applaud those who make that active decision not to vote without adequate information, even while lamenting the capacity to reach them.

    The comment about Oregon students not having good civics education in schools is simply not true. I spoke with classes at Madison, Jefferson, and Roosevelt high schools during my campaign, and have been a parent at Wilson for 6 years. I'm hugely impressed with the level of understanding of the students, and with the teachers who encourage them to think. When you were in school, did you have the governor of your state speak to your class, or even a city council candidate?

  • Sponge (unverified)
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    I'm glad to hear that Portland schools have risen to the civics challenge. Out in the hinterlands, I'm not so sure that is true. During the fifteen years I spent as an elected official, I was often invited to speak to civics classes (especially when my own kids were in high school), and was appalled by the lack of understanding by teachers on the political process. I was asked to speak about campaigning in one class and was told that it was common knowledge that nobody could win an election if they had a picture of a pig in their brochure. I then pulled out a campaign brochure (from a friend who had been elected to congress) which included a picture of him working his pig farm. The teachers' knowledge on paricular issues rarely extended beyond what they had read in the local newspaper.

    Those experiences were ten years ago. I hope things have progressed since then, and that maybe my experience was atypical.

  • Phen (unverified)
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    The problem with trying to raise voter turnout is that if we succeed, it means the number of uninformed and less-interested voters will increase, probably leading to worse results and an exacerbation of the downward spiral of public discourse.

    How about this for devil's advocacy? Encourage people not to vote unless they have a good reason to. Then bend all efforts to giving them a good reason.

    I agree that a major barrier to attracting good candidates is sheer economic survival. Especially in politics, you get what you pay for, and if we're not willing as a society to make public service less of a personal and family sacrifice, we'll continue to get mostly candidates who are either wealthy, retired, or driven by ideology or a thirst for power. That said, there are exceptions to this tendency, and we should try to identify and encourage them as much as possible.

  • BlueNote (unverified)
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    My 21 year old daughter - who is very well educated and very vocal in expressing her progressive / socialist beliefs - refuses to vote because, in her words, "all the candidates who have even a remote chance of winning eventually sell out to the corporate establishment, so why waste my time?" I would like to have some strong positive evidence to refute her opinion, but after voting and watching politics for 31 + years, I am afraid I am inclined to agree with her.

  • Ross Williams (unverified)
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    I think people should re-read Peter Forsyth's post. The number of people voting in the primary and the percentage of <u>eligible</u> voters have actually increased since 1998. In other words, participation in elections by people in Oregon has increased. There are many more people who have taken the time to become <u>registered voters</u> than there were in 1998, but a smaller percentage of those people are voting. Its likely those two things are related, that the increase in registered voters has come from people more likely to skip a low profile election.

    I also think there ia a difference between having a reason not to vote and not having a reason to vote. There are a few people in the first group, but most people who don't vote just don't have a good enough reason to go to the trouble. Russell points out some of the reasons they don't, but perhaps ignores the most basic. Many people simply don't see that the outcome of elections matters much in their lives.

    Even where the outcome does matter, it is not clear that who votes matters very much to the outcome except in very close elections. It probably mattered in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. But it is only in those very tight elections where there is enough difference between voters and non-voters to effect the outcome.

    Finally, I think Russell's analysis ignores an obvious reason people don't vote. There are active efforts ine very campaign to suppress the vote by candidates. Negative campaigning and a variety of other techniques (including throwing eligible votres off the voting roles in Florida) are used to reduce the number of an opponents supporters who will get to the polls.

    We also need to consider the impact of the lengthy voting period of vote by mail. I think the campaign has become very backloaded with almost all the advertising and mailing timed to happen when ballots are in people's hands. The result is people take an interest in the election after they have to register. That certainly discourages new voters.

  • (Show?)

    Same-day registration seems like a good idea. So I have to grant that to Mr. Sadler.

    But other than that, I find this piece shallow and unconvincing.

    Drops in turnout are associated with precisely two - entirely opposite - political phenomena: 1] the understanding by the electorite that the will of the overwhelming majority will not count (as has happened in modern-day Iran), and 2] political contentment with the status-quo.

    Despite whining from both the far left and right, we are not the former situation. Elections count in this country. With razor-thin victories, everyone's vote is more important than ever.

    Rather, it's the latter. People - independents especially - are content. So content that they don't even bother to learn even the most basic things about the way our government works - much less the the issues, or actual voting. 58% of Americans can't name a single federal Cabenet department - not Interior, or Justice, or even the Department of Defense. 40% can't tell you how many US Senators each state has (2). During the 2004 election, 56% of Americans couldn't name a single Democratic candidate. Only 63% could remember the name of the current President - Bush.

    Now why are people so content with their political leadership? That's the real question. Less than 20% of Americans say Congress is doing a good job, yet can't summon themselves to oust an incumbant more than 2% of the time they run for reelection.

    The two contradictory answers from conventional wisdom is that politics is both "too partisan" and at the same time "no one can tell the difference between the parties". Both are obviously fallacious. The problem isn't with the politicans being ignored, it's with the people who ignore them - who care more about their bread and circus of energy-subsidized food and inane entertainment, than with where we are headed as a nation and a world.

    I liken the viewpoint of many modern Americans to that of being passengers on the Titantic. The ship of America is so huge that nothing seems to change the experience, so it's easy to not care what the Navigation is doing, or the Captain, much less worry about critical flaws in the infrastructure. We're all just along for the ride. So what if we all know the Captain is taking a few risks to set a speed record in getting to New York? It's much more important to get the band to play a romantic song while you make a move on that cute girl, than to listen to someone telling you what might very well happen. What a downer! And, while maybe if a bunch of people got together and told the Captain and Owner to act a little less recklessly, maybe we'd be theoretically safer. But... there's that cute girl! Our opinion doesn't count - yeah, that's it! It doesn't count. That's why we can't be bothered.

    Don't tell me Congress is the problem when 73% of Americans haven't even bothered to learn the name of a single Congressman.

  • Ross Williams (unverified)
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    so it's easy to not care what the Navigation is doing, or the Captain, much less worry about critical flaws in the infrastructure.

    Especially when there is precisely nothing you can do about them no matter how much you worry. They are way beyond your control. I think the analogy is apt. Who knows how many worried passengers asked about the danger of icebergs - it did them no good.

  • (Show?)

    I guarantee you, Ross, that if the Titantic's high-end clientelle had all gotten together and told the owner (who was on the ship at the time), to slow down or lose business, the ship would have slowed down.

    The problem was that the incentives at the time were precisely the opposite - the "market" said only one thing: go faster.

    Don't tell me the problem we have today is that our government isn't representative. The real problem is that it largely is.

    Our nation is run by a shallow, lying, narcissistic, ignorant, bigoted, and delusional President and Congress, because they perfectly represent the shallow, lying, narcissistic, ignorant, bigoted, and delusional American people who vote for them.

    The problem isn't that Corporations can buy Congressional votes. The problem is that with a slick-ad campaign, corporations can largely buy the vote of the American people, who can't be bothered to learn even the most basic things about their government.

  • Sponge (unverified)
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    Part of the problem is our sense that the size and complexity of the federal government overwhelms us at the individual level. Every local election has something of value for every voter to address, but our sense of futlility over the national scope often diminishes our incentive to at least do what we can at home. We need to do a better job of differentiating our influence into manageable pieces.

  • Ross Williams (unverified)
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    if the Titantic's high-end clientelle had all gotten together

    Thus demonstrating the reality for most Americans. If Phil Knight wants the U of O to do something it doesn't matter whether he voted in the last election or not. And it largely doesn't matter whether you did or not either.

  • Chris (unverified)
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    The reason the younger generation isn't voting doesn't matter to the power elite. They want fewer voters so they don't have to justify themselves.

    Every politician should be elected for life and then we can save money on elections :)

  • Ross Williams (unverified)
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    Perhaps the reason people don't vote is they aren't involved in government decisions, rather than the other way around. If we focused on more citizen involvement in the decisions, and less on who the decision makers are, we would get more people engaged in both parts of the process. They would come to understand why who makes the decision often determines what decision gets made.

  • Zarathustra (unverified)
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    If you have a tool that you're not informed about using and it doesn't work, how much do you use it to solve your major problems?

  • Quigley (unverified)
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    How does that saying go: "Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves"

    The dark concept, "shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations" is recognized in many cultures. The first generation generates the wealth (creativity), the second generation preserves it (stasis), and the third generation dissipates it (entropy).

    Isn't this the process that the US is in right now? We're living in the time of the "third generation". All the work that the Founding Fathers and subsequent generations who built the infrastructure that made this country is now just going to ground.

  • askquestions1st (unverified)
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    Before posting more, I'll just throw in two quotes that I think frame the dividing line between the generations that votes, and those that don't that Russell seems totally clueless about:

    "Ask not what your country can do for you: Ask what you can do for your country"

    "It's the place where my prediction from the sixties finally came true: In the future everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes.' I'm bored with that line. I never use it anymore. My new line is,In fifteen minutes everybody will be famous.'"

    Without making any value judgements, or assigning responsible, simply think about what those two comments say about the dominant zeitgeist of the generations they represent (and the values they impart to their children) and what that means for representative government.

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    Russell,

    I'm glad to see you write on this topic, but you seem to have missed the last two or three threads that extensively discussed the issue. And a lot of people have been asking non-voters why they don't vote. Finally, while many here continue to perpetuate the myth of the engaged, issue oriented independent voter, this is no more than a myth.

    Fact: the vast majority of voters who declare themselves "independents" are in fact "leaners" who vote consistently for one or the other political party.

    Fact: independent affiliators are not more informed and not more issue oriented than partisans.

    Also fact: low voter turnout is not associated in any way with dissatisfaction with the Bush administration, much as you might want this to be true.

  • genop (unverified)
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    When one defines “electorate” as only those voters willing to participate in the process, those who refuse to participate cede their power to the electorate to vote their proxy. There will always be political activists and those carrying water for interest groups, but the majority of Americans simply possess a sense of social responsibility which overrides their desire to cede their only means of effecting the process. The reasons for avoiding this civic responsibility are myriad as noted above. As a card carrying member of the electorate, I would like to thank those who by default have placed your faith in my vote, but caution that there are many more members of the “electorate” who have interests which are aimed at creating social changes which the majority of all eligible voters do not support. Unfortunately when the number of interested voters grows and those voting out of a sense of responsibility lags, the power balance shifts to favor a resolute minority with strong interests in the outcome. This skews the democratic principle of majority rule. Thanks Russell for reminding us to awaken those eligible - to exercise their own damn proxy and stand up to this greedy, self indulgent, close minded, paternalistic, isolationist, power hungry machine known as the GOP. We must encourage participation based on a sense of social responsibility so that the will of the majority prevails. Not just the will of a majority of the “electorate” but of all eligible voters. Ask not what you can do for yourself, ask what you can do for others. Vote. Oh yeah, and please don’t shirk jury duty either? Thanks & Peace -please?

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    Ask:

    If you're in a position to call Russell "totally clueless" about the generation that doesn't vote, you must be an expert. So glad you're here to weigh in.

    Please enlighten us: if younger folks are so selfish or preccupied with fame, how would you explain the strength of the Bus Project, and their hordes of younger folks who are successfully (if not instantly) engaging their peers? How about the Dean campaign/Democracy for America? The success of Air America in younger demographics? Rock the Vote, Democracy Matters? The success of Voter Owned Elections in Portland and other places around the country? The Electronic Frontier Foundation?

    I have apparently been operating under the illusion that the world is complex, and that many factors need to be weighed to understand how it works. Thanks for setting me straight. The youngsters don't care, so we're all going down. So much simpler.

  • Ross Williams (unverified)
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    If you're in a position to call Russell "totally clueless"

    You know that is a misrepresentation of what he said. What he said was:

    "I'll just throw in two quotes that I think frame the dividing line between the generations that votes, and those that don't that Russell seems totally clueless about:"

    Many of the things you have listed may well represent the divide he suggests exists. I don't see any world changing results from any of the projects you list. Perhaps there are some, but they seem to be mostly spectacles whose value is in the attention they grab, not their achievements. Which is precisely the point he seemed to be making.

    And I think he is correct, that many people, young and old, measure the value of public action by the affirmation it receives in the public media. There is little, if any, fame to be gained by simply voting. Maybe publicizing the names of everyone who has already registered and/or voted would get out more young voters.

    BTW, it is not at all clear that the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Voter Owned Elections or the some of the other projects you list are the products of "younger folks" unless you mean people under 65. Maybe they are - but I would like to see some evidence for it.

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    Ross- your partial quote of my post doesn't do much to convince me that I misrepresented Ask Questions. He/she claimed that Russell is "totally clueless" about the dividing line between two generations. I'd say Russell's photo clearly places him in the "generation that votes." So I think it's likely Ask meant that Russell doesn't get the younger generation.

    My main concern is about the tone. It doesn't make sense to me that somebody who complains about the juvenile level of discussion would insult one person, as a means to insult an entire generation. I just don't get how that elevates the debate.

    On your specific disagreement: As I see it, the EFF is largely driven by the dot-com boomers/slashdot crowd, which includes a whole lot of 20- and 30-somethings. I don't have a pile of evidence for that, but it's my belief after following their work for some time. And I find it hard to imagine how VOE could have succeeded without resources and momentum generated by Democracy Matters, an organization that I believe focuses exclusively on high school and college students.

    I wouldn't say either one was necessarily driven by younger folks, but it's hard for me to imagine either having much success with you youth support.

    But taking this debate to its conclusion would take us pretty far off-topic. If Ask Questions is going to sum up the entire conversation with the assertion that the younger generation is apathetic and self-absorbed, I'd say it's incumbent on him/her to argue these points...my feeling is that most people here agree with me that young progressive voices have some importance.

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    The youngsters don't care, so we're all going down. So much simpler.

    Hmmm... 25% of Howard Dean's money came from donors under age 25. Hmmm...

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    Pete,

    I'm not sure how many of these things:

    Please enlighten us: if younger folks are so selfish or preccupied with fame, how would you explain the strength of the Bus Project, and their hordes of younger folks who are successfully (if not instantly) engaging their peers? How about the Dean campaign/Democracy for America? The success of Air America in younger demographics? Rock the Vote, Democracy Matters? The success of Voter Owned Elections in Portland and other places around the country? The Electronic Frontier Foundation?

    can be attributed to young voters.

    1) EFF and VOE have nothing to do with young voters. 2) There have been studies of Rock the Vote. It was a nice campaign that made no difference in turnout. 3) Why does the Dean campaign illustrate anything about young voters? Dean's major support group (the group that gave him the most amount of money) was academics. Every campaign relies heavily on young volunteers; I don't know if Dean had a higher proportion of young volunteers than any other campaign. Kari may know about the relative proportion of young donors (citing Dean's number above without comparing to other candidates doesn't give us the full picture). 4) Air America ... again, I don't know whether this says anything about turnout or how youth differ from non-youth. Tell me more what you mean by their success in the youth demographic.

    5) Bus Project. Ok, now this one has some real potential. the problem is we don't know how much this model will be successfully exported to other areas (Portland does have some very unique demographic and political characteristics); nor how much the BP has increased turnout overall in PDX or in OR.

  • Ross Williams (unverified)
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    Ross- your partial quote of my post doesn't do much to convince me that I misrepresented Ask

    Here is the post I made for all those wondering what Pete is talking about:

    Posted by: Ross Williams | Jul 12, 2006 7:23:50 AM

    If you're in a position to call Russell "totally clueless"

    You know that is a misrepresentation of what he said. What he said was:

    "I'll just throw in two quotes that I think frame the dividing line between the generations that votes, and those that don't that Russell seems totally clueless about:"

    Many of the things you have listed may well represent the divide he suggests exists. I don't see any world changing results from any of the projects you list. Perhaps there are some, but they seem to be mostly spectacles whose value is in the attention they grab, not their achievements. Which is precisely the point he seemed to be making.

    And I think he is correct, that many people, young and old, measure the value of public action by the affirmation it receives in the public media. There is little, if any, fame to be gained by simply voting. Maybe publicizing the names of everyone who has already registered and/or voted would get out more young voters.

    BTW, it is not at all clear that the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Voter Owned Elections or the some of the other projects you list are the products of "younger folks" unless you mean people under 65. Maybe they are - but I would like to see some evidence for it.

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    Kari may know about the relative proportion of young donors (citing Dean's number above without comparing to other candidates doesn't give us the full picture).

    I don't know what other candidates have done, but 25% from people under age 25 seems shockingly high - and many others have had that same reaction.

    That said, I think it's important to note that there's a huge difference between mobilizing donors and mobilizing voters. I don't know the specific numbers, but I'd be surprised if more than 2% of all voters had ever given a single contribution to any candidate anywhere.

    Donors are the insider's insiders. Of course, that's why it's so important to expand the pool of Democratic donors.

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    paul:

    1. The basis for this discussion assumes that the value of fame has to do with how different generations vote. That gives us a pretty broad playing field.

    2. I wasn't aware of that, but I know RtV has been having a terrible time staying funded. I suppose what you say could explain that.

    3. I was speaking ancecdotally about the Dean campaign. (see justification below.) I'm really not an expert. I agree with Kari that 25% of funding coming from under-25 donors seems like an enormous number, but I have no basis for comparison. But I do know that many of my younger friends who have little interest in politics were very energized by Howard Dean. And I've heard lots of similar stories in the media and through word of mouth.

    4. Studying radio ratings is a science. Again, the basis for my point is anecdotal - more about the callers I hear than hard numbers. On further consideration, I will concede that the 25-to-54 demographic, often referred to in the industry as "young listeners," is not particularly useful to the topic at hand.

    But I feel I've done a poor job of expressing myself. My basic point is this:

    There are two necessary steps for anyone to establish a political presence: 1. they have to care and 2. they have to figure out how to make their voice heard (voting, donations, volunteering, canvassing, etc.)

    Let's make a syllogism out of that: youth caring + youth strategy -> youth votes

    I don't see any lack of caring among the younger generations, but I do see a world that has become very complex very quickly - and a world with very well-established political strongholds. I think it stands to reason that younger generations get frustrated before they get to the ballot box.

    askquestions1st sees the lack of youth votes, and apparently deduces that youth caring is the missing element. That is not a proper deduction. I would contend that "youth strategy" - in other words, a combination of factors like "how do I vote," "who do I vote for," and "does voting really make a difference" - is where the problem lies.

    I do not attempt to make a proof that "caring" is absent - on a logical level, my position is no more certain than that of askquestions1st. But on a sociological level, I would think that "young people care about the world they live in" is not a very bold claim.

  • paul (unverified)
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    Pete,

    Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't trying to be critical just helpfully pointing out the areas of your post where I can help with some empirical support, and other areas where I think the points are a bit more shaky.

    I don't want to get into the "fame" thing either. Not sure where that is coming from.

  • Marvin McConoughey (unverified)
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    A few suggestions: 1. Have more votes and referendums on specific issues at the time the issues command public attention. 2. We may be fortunate that not everyone votes. 3. If Oregon placed relatively more emphasis on economics in high schools then graduates might better appreciate the economic issues at stake when they vote. 4. We may have created governments so complex and all-encompassing that they exceed the ability of elected officials to ably manage.

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