The BCS still sucks
T.A. Barnhart
Ok, I normally wouldn't write about sports (unless the Dodgers win the World Series, in which case, watch out) but this pisses me off major.
Five years ago, the Ducks were the #2 team in the nation, but that BCS was so screwed up, an inferior Nebraska team got to play for, and get smeared in, the national title game. The BCS "fixed" its system after that, finding even better ways to have the wrong teams play for the championship.
This year, the problem is not the Ducks being out of the title game but out of the BCS entirely. The consensus #5 team in the country, they are not one of the 8 BCS teams. Get this: Florida State, a crummy 7-4 team ranked #22 gets to play in the Orange Bowl -- and will be annihilated by Penn State -- simply because they won the ACC. The bowl system requires a team win at least 6 games to be bowl-eligible; should not the BCS have a similar requirement? Last year it was Cal getting jobbed; this year the Ducks.
The two teams in the Fiesta Bowl, Ohio State and Notre Dame, both have lost 2 games compared to the Ducks' single loss (to USC). Yet in the bizarro world that is the BCS, they are more worthy? Notre Dame is particularly galling; they are basically guaranteed a spot in the BCS if they simply finish high enough in the rankings. No matter that other schools have better records or more highly ranked -- like, for example, the Univ of Oregon. Notre Dame is special; Notre Dame gets special rules as well as their own tv network. No wonder Congress is investigating!
And before anyone hollers "It's only sports," two things.
One, sports is not "only." Sports have become a part of world culture. You may not like football, or college money sports, or physical competition; that's irrelevant. Sports matters to most people in some way, whether it's the love of the game or loyalty to home(team) or winning a bet or the kind of bragging rights so important to alumni and Brazliian soccer fans. Yes, we underfund education horribly, but academic & athletic monies are, for the most part, from disparate sources. Defunding athletics -- as if that could happen -- will not necessarily pay for more English and math teachers. Ultimately, college athletics will continue to exist because it's what enough people want. Seeing the Ducks (or Beavers, or NCAA soccer champions Portland PIlots) do well in sports is extremely important to a lot of people.
Second, there's a shitload of money involved here. The UO will get $2 million for appearing in the Holiday Bowl; OSU and ND get $12-14 million each for being in a BCS game. This is money the whole athletic program would benefit from, not to mention the increased attractiveness to the program, which helps build it more. Going to a BCS game helps the whole school; let's not forget the same guy who backed the development of Autzen Stadium also has his family on the Library, which is a fantastic facility as well. Great athletics can promote great academics, and often does at UO.
Commentators all over the country are saying the BCS got it right this year. Well, the BCS got lucky that Penn State blew a last-second lead, that Texas and USC both won games they should have lost. Oregon is unlucky that Michigan choked against Ohio State. (As they say in sports, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.) But a #22 team in the Orange Bowl is just wrong. The #5 team in the country being excluded is wrong. The system continues to be broken, and once again, Oregon pays the price. But we're only Oregon, a pissant state, not a lucky one. What do we matter? Lucky for the BCS, I guess, that we don't.
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11:41 p.m.
Dec 5, '05
T.A.-- First, a correction: Ohio State won't get $12-14 million. Rather, they'll share it with the Big 10 - though they'll get the lion's share. And, UO will get the bulk of their Holiday Bowl payout - but they'll also share some with the Pac-10. (And they'll share in USC's Rose Bowl payout, too.) Learn more about conference revenue sharing here.
Second, an important note: The chairman of the BCS Presidential Oversight Committee is Dave Frohnmayer - president of UO. The president of the NCAA is Myles Brand - former president of UO. The University of Oregon has only itself to blame for the BCS mess.
Dec 6, '05
As a graduate of the University of Oregon that spent a good percentage of his time paying out $200 Western Union checks to Akili Smith and Ruben Droghns from behind the counter at the Greyhound station, I must admit that I'm a little sick of my checking account being automatically charged $136 per month to pay off my bills to the US Dept. of Education. That being said, I prefer watching the Ducks win over watching them lose, so perhaps the upside of this is that at least we're in a bowl game that we have a chance of winning.
Dec 6, '05
couple points about your argument that oregon is more deserving than nd.
oregon lost to usc was by 32 points. nd lost to usc by 3 points.
nd had a tougher schedule than oregon. what's that you say? nd only beat 3 teams with winning records? by that rationale, oregon's defeat of 6-5 houston should be worth more than nd's defeat of 5-6 tennessee. further, oregon did not beat a single team that is in the top 25.
if you want to complain about the bcs, and there's plenty to complain about, complain to your conference commissioner for agreeing to the rules, not about a deserving notre dame team getting selected.
Dec 6, '05
Another point TA:
Oregon played Montana, a division I-AA school--Ohio State and Notre Dame played all Division I-A schools. So when Oregon stops playing I-AA schools and gets shifted from the BCS with a 10-1 record--then cry over the spilted milk.
Mikey.... Oregon's was 2-1 vs. Top 25 teams, a win over ranked #23/#25 Fresno State(that had a closer lost to USC and when Oregon was not ranked) and a loss to #1 USC; on back to back weekends; then they beat California when they were ranked #21/#23.
Over all Oregon had a very weak schedule vs. Ohio State, that had 5 ranked teams-Texas, Penn State, Michigan State, Michigan, Iowa; and Notre Dame that had 3 ranked teams-Michigan, Michigan State, and USC.
Miami(FL)[5 ranked oppenents] and Auburn[4 ranked oppenents] should be crying louder than Oregon for the same reason as Ohio State--very tough schedules.
Dec 6, '05
T.A.
You made the following point:
"Notre Dame is particularly galling; they are basically guaranteed a spot in the BCS if they simply finish high enough in the rankings. No matter that other schools have better records or more highly ranked -- like, for example, the Univ of Oregon. Notre Dame is special; Notre Dame gets special rules as well as their own tv network."
Notre Dame is not "basically" guaranteed a spot in the BCS if they "simply finish high enough in the rankings". They ARE guaranteed a spot in the BCS if they finish 6 or higher.
In regard to this guarantee making Notre Dame "special". This rule applies to ALL Division 1A teams that are not in one of the BCS conferences (PAC 10, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Big East). Any team outside a BCS conference that finishes in the top 6 is guaranteed a BCS spot (see Utah last year).
Dec 6, '05
I'm sympathetic to the Ducks, but only to a point.
The major flaw with the BCS is that it tries both to rank teams for a national championship slot AND lock-in winners of key conferences. Thus, you end up with the abomination of Florida State in the Orange Bowl or Pitt in last year's Fiesta Bowl.
As for choosing Ohio State and Notre Dame over Oregon, I think the BCS system produced the right outcome, especially in the case of Ohio State. Ohio State killed everyone they played, except for narrow losses to the #2 team (Texas, by 3) and #3 team (Pen State, by 7) in games the Buckeyes probably should have won.
Dec 6, '05
Chris -
You are correct that Notre Dame automatically qualified under a provision of the selection rules that applies to other schools - 5 non-major conferences (not just any non-BCS Conference). A WAC, Conference USA, Mid-American, Mountain West or Sun Belt School ranked #6 in BCS would have also automatically jumped over Oregon.
Although not implicated this year provision 2a of the selection criteria does treat Notre Dame differently. Criteria 2a allows Notre Dame to jump over teams if it is ranked in the top 10 and the first 6 spots are otherwise filled. For example, if West Virginia and Florida State were ranked #5 and #6 and Notre Dame were ranked #10 - Notre Dame would jump over schools ranked #7, #8 and #9 for an automatic BCS bid. This provision wasn't implicated this year. But the BCS criteria does have specific rules for Notre Dame - to Notre Dame's advantage.
Dec 6, '05
Being a faithful follower of the Ducks from the Ship of Fools bar on the Upper East side of Manhattan, it pained me to see us get passed over. I agree that, objectively, our schedule wasn't the most difficult. But there is one factor in all of this that hasn't been raised: the bowl game's committee.
Our schedule had very little to do with our not making the Fiesta Bowl--we could have beaten a team like Michigan and probably still been left out. Why? Money, tv ratings, attendance, etc. Notre Dame v. OSU, regardless of their merits, has much more cachet than any Ducks game could. SI's Stewart Mandel put it best in his response to a letter from a reader:
"Stewart -- I heard that FOX is canceling Arrested Development! Do you think you can use your influence to get them to change their mind? --Matthew Smith, Ann Arbor, Mich.
"Every major TV critic in the country has stumped for that show the past three years, so I don't think there's anything I could say at this point to save it. It's just one of those things that, despite its considerable merits, was never fully embraced by mainstream America. Kind of like the Oregon Ducks"
Blame the OSU alumni-laden Fiesta Bowl committee as being the primary reason we didn't get to the game--Oregon did its damn best.
Dec 6, '05
i did not attend FSU or graduate from FSU, but to dog them out because they are 8-4 and the ACC Champs is weak. They beat Miami, FL and VT this year. Check the last 20 yrs - they've been pretty good. i'd be willing to bank on FSU beating Penn St.
Dec 6, '05
"It's money that matters."
If sports were the only arena where this were so, we would live in a truly wonderous world.
Dec 6, '05
Last year's controversey was Texas being selected to play in the Rose Bowl over Cal. It's hard to say anything now, after Texas won the Rose Bowl and Cal lost to Texas Tech in the Holiday Bowl. As a Beaver fan, I'm hoping the Ducks get smoked by Oklahoma in the Holiday Bowl.
I also disagree with you saying education is under-funded. I graduated both HS and college in the past four years, and can tell you, the majority of staff members (including teachers, professors and instructors) shouldn't be making much more than minimum wage.
Dec 6, '05
It all depends on which FSU shows up: the one that lost to Clemson and Virginia, or the one that VTech (and I don't count the Miami game as highly--it was an ugly race to the bottom of a contest). FSU may be talented, but there is a reason Oregon is ranked 17 spots higher--we didn't lose like they did. Even if you have a tougher schedule, winning still matters.
11:34 a.m.
Dec 6, '05
They beat Miami, FL and VT this year.
Vermont wasn't that good.
Dec 6, '05
Ah! The injustice! Oh, wait, this is sports by people who are supposed to be studying for their degrees. Fan the fires! Fan them!
This matters because people care about it? Isn't that a bit of reflexive logic? We should care because, well, people care?
The Ducks weren't that good. Neither, for that matter, was USC -- who barely survived a couple of scares. Or, well, anyway... I don't know why I'm commenting on this.
Dec 6, '05
Hey TA, sorry to hear all the whining but to let you know, Oregon does not deserve to be in this bowl. If you look at OSU, they lost to the #2 and #3 teams by a total of 10 points!! ND on the other hand? well, you could go both ways. yeah they even lost to a horrible Mich st. team. However...if Oregon plays either team in the Fiesta bowl, what kind of interest is going to be shown? Now, if OSU and ND play? HUGE ratings. yeah it sucks to be you guys but thats the way it is. Until a playoff type system is in play, then this is the way it will be.
How about you inform Oregon that playing D-1AA schools will not get them into a BSC bowl. Start playing some real teams....beat them...then come talk.
Dec 6, '05
As long as you're bemoaning the great injustices Oregon suffered, perhaps you'd like to explain why every single pac 10 vote in the coaches poll (excepting Stanford) dropped Notre Dame in the final poll, when both Oregon and ND were on a bye week? Get your own house in order before you cry about injustices elsewhere.
Dec 6, '05
The Ducks scheduled Montana in September as opposed to Michigan State or Texas, teams ND and OSU lost to respectively. Try scheduling harder non-conference opponents before you go bitching about whether or not the Ducks deserve it. Both OSU and ND would roll over Oregon in the Fiesta bowl. Just face it: Oregon is not that good this year, it is possible to be 10-1 and not as good as a 9-2 team. Plus the loss the Ducks sustained to USC (45-13 if you don't remember) more than proves that the Ducks are out of their league with the BCS.
12:40 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
re Undies -- always good to get the civic-minded intellectual powerhouses from OSU involved.
12:46 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
I originally meant to emphasize how the BCS lets the #22 team in the country get into one of the top 4 bowl games; that's the really stupid thing here. Florida State is not BCS quality, and there's no doubt about it.
But if anyone wants to talk about strength of schedule, I can do that. Let's look at some of the powerhouses Notre Dame had to fight off: Syracuse, Navy, Washington, BYU (6-5 record, one of their quality wins); they lost to Michigan State at home, MSU being this year's super delux choke co-champ with 'Bama. Their only "quality" win was at Michigan, in week 2 -- and Michigan finished 7-4. This is a schedule Oregon takes out with only 1 loss, but ND managed to lose two of them.
Ohio State did have a much tought schedule, with both Texas and Penn State -- and they lost both of those (so they are 0-2 for the 2005 BCS season). The rest of the schedule is hardly what you'd call terrifying: Miama (Ohio), Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, and then the holiday gift from Michigan.
Ragging on Oregon for playing Montana is a bit daft. UM is a perennial 1-AA power, and as any good UO or OSU fan knows, a quality 1-AA team is better than a mediocre 1-A team (e.g., Indiana or Washington). The Ducks played decent teams this year, but most importantly: they beat them. After the USC game, the defense played great ball. After losing the second-best quarterback in the conference, the offense not only found ways to win but got increasingly stronger. The won twice in Arizona, never an easy job, as UCLA found out. Not to mention their annual trip to Wazoo. And despite their record, Oregon State was a tough team this year, just immature, and the Ducks handled them like a high school team in abysmal weather.
Both OSU and ND deserve BCS games; I don't doubt that. But so does Oregon. That's the point that's being missed. Oregon's creds are at least equal to ND's. The real problem is Florida State and a system that lets a team with 4 losses get a top game is a busted system. The BCS is busted and it sucks.
Dec 6, '05
Notre Dame has publicized where it's going to spend it's money from earning a bowl bid, and it's not on athletics. The bulk of the money is going to library acquisitions and instruments for a new science building. (see www.und.com for details.)
Where would Oregon have spent the money? My guess is their bowl money stays in a seperate athletic department budget, but it's only a guess. I don't know that for certain.
1:21 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
matthew, oregon expanded its library 10 years ago, with a wee bit of help from that sports guy, i think his name is knight?. most of the science buildings were expanded, with new ones built, about the same time. and that while expanding autzen, adding the cas center, and using the tech fee to put computer equipment virtually everywhere.
notre dame has its alumni (who drove away ty willingham) and its contract with nbc. so their generosity to the library is not necessarily a sign of how altruistic they are -- the place is damned cutthroat. there's a reason belotti stayed at UO, a reason many people decide to take the lower pay of UO and OSU: quality of life. heckfire, dude, we're just better people out here!!
Dec 6, '05
Dec 6, '05
As a life long Nebraska fan I have to say the amount of whining about the BCS from Oregon fans is more than a little irritating. If the head of your University sits on the BCS board, is the former AG of the state and happens to run a law school can't read the rules and negotiate a better deal then you people should just be embarrased.
And no, college football rules are not fair. The polls are biased. For instance, Michigan and Nebraska are playing in the Alamo Bowl, both have a 7-4 record but Michigan is ranked 21st and Nebraska hasn't been ranked all season. And Nebraska played a tougher schedule than UofO. What a bunch of crap.
And for the record, Oregon would've also gotten creamed by Miami. It's easy to say your team would've won if you would've gotten in. For instance a few years earlier Nebraska was favored to lose to Florida in a championship fiesta bowl but destroyed the Florida team.
Oregon fans complaining about the BCS only do so because they are so recent to the unfairness of the Bowl system. If they had been decent before they would know the BCS is a hell of a lot better than what occured before.
Dec 6, '05
Goodness gracious. Words cannot begin to express how fed up I am with you whining Oregon people. No one is denying that the conference tie-in system is asinine. Of course it is. It's easy to blame Notre Dame, or blame some junky team from another conference. But did I hear you whining when a three-loss Stanford team played in the Rose Bowl in 2000 (and lost to Wisconsin)? No? Didn't think so. Oregon was perfectly happy to split the Pac-10 money with them, I am sure. The hard truth of the matter is the Ducks are just one of the also-rans who weren't good enough to get it done this year. If you don't like it, 1) win your conference next time or 2) write to your A.D./university president and ask them to petition the BCS to eliminate the tie-in system. Your only other option is 3) shut up about it already. You want to talk about injustice and the Notre Dame bias? Try being a Notre Dame fan (or coach or player, for that matter) circa 1993 and getting screwed out of a national championship because the AP and coaches arbitrarily decide to award it to Florida State even though you beat them head to head and had the same record. Rumor has it that Moeller ranked #10 on his Coach's ballot that year (or left them off entirely, depending who you ask) because "It's hard enough to recruit against Notre Dame without having them win a National Championship." That, my feathered friend, is injustice.
2:29 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
Hey, how come no one is complaining about our own Kari Chisholm. Did he actually mention his "stiff armed" data collection technique and the word "sample" in the same sentence?
Tell us it ain't so, Kari!
Pac 10 football sucks anyway. Big 10 rules.
Dec 6, '05
I've never thought highly of Ducks fans understanding of college football. This thread does not change my opinion.
Stick to track.
Dec 6, '05
Are you kidding me?
Oregon is 3-1 vs. ranked teams this year. They beat Fresno St., coming from 17 behind early in the season. They beat Arizona St. convincingly when State still had its star quarterback. They beat Cal in overtime with two NEW quarterbacks who hadn't played an entire game yet. They lost to USC after leading in the 1st half, but then again, UCLA never led against USC, and got blown out worse than Oregon.
It sickens me when Big 10 and Notre Dame fans talk about their 'quality losses'. Since when did a loss count for anything? Tell WSU that they deserve to be in the top 25 because SEVEN of their losses were of 4 points or less! I doubt you'd do that because it doesn't really change the fact that they are still 4-7. Then again, Michigan State is 5-6, and they beat the Irish.
At the end of the day, friends, Oregon is still 10-1. Ohio State and Notre Dame are still 9-2. And FSU is still 7-4.
Oregon got screwed. And you know it.
Andrew
Dec 6, '05
T.A. glad to see that you're a real "out of the box" thinker. Keep thinking those teachers, whose jobs aren't related to performance and who get 3 months a year of vacation (and then some) are underpaid, just because... just because... just because... why??
Dec 6, '05
I didn't read all comments so I apologize if this has been stated. Comparing losses and strength of schedule is becoming redundant at this point. OSU has lost to the #2 and #3 teams in the final BCS, ND the #1 and UM (dont know their ranking), UO lost to the #1. Upsets are part of the game, which explains Florida State (had VT won and the bcs picked as it did, you wouldnt have an case), OSU did luck out with the 2 teams ahead of it losing, but the fiesta bowl has seen the crowd that OSU brings (i remember doing stadium ohio in tempe) and the crowd notre dame brings. No offense and all, but the ducks can't compare with that following....bowls games are not playoffs for deserving teams, its a business and is run like such, they are exhibitions for a reason. Would you rather go back to the days where a panel of 10 guys just picked the champion?
Dec 6, '05
Ta, just wanted to point out that the whole purpose of the BCS is to match the top TWO teams at the end of the year.
4:03 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
In 1993, I was sitting in the frozen stands of section Q in the Camp--Camp Randall Stadium in Madison, WI. Actually, I wasn't sitting, I was full of beer and standing, screaming along with all the other students at the University of Wisconsin. Barry Alvarez was doing there what Mike Bellotti has done in Eugene, and he was in year three, I think. The Badgers had a very long tradition of losing, and so it wasn't until about midway through the season that anyone actually started to take their (winning) record seriously.
As we started to get anxious, you know what we chanted? You've heard it here, too: ROSE BOWL, ROSE BOWL, ROSE BOWL. For the winners of the Big Ten, there is nothing sweeter than traveling to Pasadena as the fitting reward to punishing games in the Big House, the Camp, or the Horseshoe. Somehow, chanting "May the vagaries of the Bowl Championship Series formula grant us admission to a BCS Bowl Game!" just lacks something.
Are the Pac Ten and Big Ten happy to have signed up for this monstrosity, or can we go back to the grand old tradition?
(The Badgers went to the Rose Bowl that year--first year since 1962--and beat UCLA.)
4:05 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
nope, jim, that's incorrect but thanks for playing our game.
the correct answer is: The BCS exists to make shitloads of money. football is simply the delivery mechanism. (4 BCS games, remember, not 1.)
4:34 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
Paul, you wrote: Hey, how come no one is complaining about our own Kari Chisholm. Did he actually mention his "stiff armed" data collection technique and the word "sample" in the same sentence?
Come on over to StiffArmTrophy.com to discuss. This is a thread about Oregon and the BCS.
Dec 6, '05
Thanks for the outrage you have shown at having to play my lowly 7-4 Sooners. We are unranked and have not beaten a ranked team this year. Oops, I forgot. We made the mistake of playing a very tough schedule with a very young team. Oregon better bring their "A" game to the Holiday Bowl, or we will make this talk of BCS worthiness a mute point!
Dec 6, '05
Notre Dame is the most annoying team in college football.
5 years ago ND was 9-3 and didn't deserve a BCS bid but they were invited to the Fiesta Bowl, where they lost to Oregon State 49-12 (if memory serves me correctly). Last year OSU beat them by a similar score in the Insight Bowl. There recent bowl history is not impressive, especially against teams from Oregon.
This year's schedule was a cupcake. Not including USC, the combined record of their opponents was 48-62. They nearly lost to Stanford on the same field UC Davis won 20-17 earlier in the year. They grew out the grass for weeks before USC came in hopes of slowing down their offense. Hey, if you can't slow 'em down, maybe the grass can!
The most annoying thing abotu Notre Dame is that after they lost to USC, they moved up in the rankings. What the hell is that? Fresno State played USC at USC, came just as close to beating them as ND, yet they didn't get any respect for their effort.
What's that about? Screw Notre Dame. I can't wait to see Ohio State blow them out of Arizona, just like the other OSU did the last two times they were there.
4:51 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
just checking out the Stiffys on kari's other site (god, that's just too much fun to reference), but i have to say this: kari, how can you refer to the Hei, i mean Stiffy winner as the "most outstanding player" when it really means most outstanding rnning back, quarterback or receiver? haloti ngata is probably a more outstanding player than leinart, but he won't be considered (we do hope he wins the Outland however -- can i say "Outland"?) it's ok that the Stifferoni is for these marquee players; i understand that (and pray to all my maroon-and-gold football gods that winner Our Man Reggie Bush is moving up I5 next year to join his high school qb Alex Smith with the soon-to-be-resuscitated 49ers). i just find it annoying that the Stiffest player is considered the best -- when it rarely is so.
Dec 6, '05
Clint, I don't see where OU's schedule was that tough. You played Texas, so you obviously get credit for that. UCLA is probably a #15-#20 team. Then you played Texas Tech, a #20-#25 team. Who else was any good besides those three teams?
The Big 12 was worse this year than any year I can remember.
4:58 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
I blame none other than UM-Ann Arbor: go north until you smell it, go west until you see it.
THAT was the game on the schedule when Big Blue wimped out. At least the University of Montana was man enough to step on the field in their absence. If Oregon plays Michigan instead, even if they lose, we're not having this discussion, and the Ducks get to do to Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl what the Beavers did to Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl, albeit with less riverdancing after touchdowns.
The Buckeyes, instead, deserved that game more than the Ducks this year. No problem to me: the Big Ten was up this year, and at least the Wolverines HAD TO play them.
And I say that as the guy who grew up in the home next-door to the Ducks' starting middle linebacker during the Fouts/Rashad era. I'm not just another goatroper in orange and black.
That being said, the Pac-10 does a lot of screwing itself, and that impacts the Ducks as much as the BS Championship Committee's yearly screwing of Pac-10 schools.
As runner-up to SC, Oregon gets the Holiday Bowl, where they get not another conference runner-up but the #3 team from a conference that modern college football has passed by. That's what's wrong. If Oregon falls to the Cotton Bowl or matches up with another conference runner-up like Georgia, VaTech, or Ohio State, all is right in the land.
Conference tie-ins are retarded; does Colorado, for example, really deserve a good bowl game after Texas ran them out of the building?
And I'll buy Notre Dame's special treatment when and only when the BSC also grants one to the flagship school of the LARGEST religion in America - BYU. They play a service academy, too. And I'm sure the Cougars can come up with some vignettes of their own akin to the ones NBC dutifully puts in heavy rotation for Jeff Samardzija. I'm guessing Notre (Dame) Broadcasting Cabal also gets the Fiesta Bowl rights as a cap to their school's stirring television ratings this year. Good riddance, and all the heart-tugging stories and Touchdown Jesus statuettes in the world won't cover Holmes and Ginn - Buckeyes by at least four touchdowns.
I understand there is a large contigent of new Oregonians that carry their East Coast bias with them along I-84, and they've all posted to this thread before their usual bedtimes at 7 PM Pacific Time. It's a shame, really - they'll wonder what happened when Texas gets rolled by the Trojans, same as the Huskers did in the Joey era when they got ticketed for a bowl they had no business being in.
Dec 6, '05
Ohio State Buckeyes
*#2 Toughest Schedule in the country.
*Only 2 loses came from #2 Texas (25-22) and #3 Penn State (17-10)
*Ohio state has killed every other team they played. Including ranked teams in the Big Ten.
*Oregon played Div. 1-AA Montana. Not half there schedule even made it to a bowl game.
*Lost by 32 against USC.
Oregon has been a national powerhouse in the past what 5 years?? Give me a break....Ohio State and Notre Dame (although i do not agree ND should be in a BCS Bowl Game) have much more Tradition....win some more games and some national championships, maybe schedule some tougher games..then start bcthing about playing with the big dogs! Go home Oregon!! This aint touch football!!!!
Dec 6, '05
Well lets see. We played the TCU team that went 10-1 and is ranked in the top 15 with a conference championship. We played an unranked Tulsa University team that is 8-4 and won their conference championship. We played a solid 7-4 Nebraska team who will be in the Alamo Bowl. Kansas is only 6-5 but their defense is as sound as anyones. They are bowl bound as well. Everyone has to play a few weak ones in conference so we will not compare those. Unless, of course, you are Notre Dame, they get to pick the weak ones every year. I would say it was fairly tough. Seems like the NCAA and the computers agree.
Dec 6, '05
Let's see here... FSU played in a Conference Championship game and did EARN a spot in a BCS bowl... tell the Pac-10 to have one like the real conferences such as the SEC, ACC and Big 12. You have what, two good teams in the Pac-10? Those other conferences beat each other up all year and play an extra game. Those teams deserve a BCS Bowl game
Dec 6, '05
For those who want to be "politically active" about their distaste for Oregon's fate (again), here's an interesting website.
As for those who thought the Ducks folded up against USC, you obviously didn't see the game we watched at Autzen. It was much closer than the final score indicated, with Oregon having two TDs called back on very questionable calls etc.
Finally, to the all-seeing oracle Jack Bog, I assume you were making a silly little joke in referencing Florida State's win over VT as "Vermont". Everyone on the east coast knows that the Catamounts don't even play football, and the school goes by "UVM". VT, in this case, of course, is Virginia Tech, not the USPS 2-letter designation for a state.
But I'm sure you knew that, being the all-powerful, invincible BO-JACK!
Dec 6, '05
Hey Buckeye, what's tradition got to do with anything? Why not just put Notre Dame in the championship against Nebraska then? Tradition didn't help Notre Dame against Oregon State either time in their bowl matchups.
The Pac-10 is one of the top 3 conferences in football every year. It doesn't get the respect it deserves because of the east coast's bias against the west. For evidence of this, look how Notre Dame was rewarded in the rankings for a close loss versus SC and then how Fresno St was penalized for an equally close loss. This USC team is probably the greatest team in NCAA history, at least over the past 3 years.
I actually think Ohio State deserves a BCS bowl - it's Notre Dame I have the problem with. I was hoping the Ducks would get to play Ohio State so I could enjoy watching the Ducks get slaughtered, but now they go up against a questionable Oklahoma team. The Holiday Bowl always ends up as own of the best bowls out there - BCS included - and it should be a fun one to watch.
Dec 6, '05
"For evidence of this, look how Notre Dame was rewarded in the rankings for a close loss versus SC and then how Fresno St was penalized for an equally close loss."
Please tell me how Fresno State was penalized for an equally close loss? ND was the week before and the week after losing to USC and Fresno State was 16 the week before AND the week after losing to USC. Weak argument my friend.
I am going to hold my comments back on the statement "The Pac-10 is one of the top 3 conferences in football every year" until after the bowl games, BUT I will say this, no they are not. Big Ten, ACC and SEC are FAR better conferences top to bottom. I would compare the Pac-10 to the current Big East but just with 1 really really good team
Dec 6, '05
Oh yea, I forgot to add, Ohio State has the 2nd ranked schedule according to Sagarin rankings, Michigan has the #1, Notre Dame is 19 while Oregon is 34. Looks to me like Notre Dame played a tougher schedule according to Sagarin
9:19 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
Until major conference teams have to honor all their scheduled games, and not duck out like Michigan did, strength of schedule is a moot point.
You wanna talk about weak conferences with only one really really good team? Look no further than the Big 12. If that was a strong conference, Colorado wouldn't give up and get rolled by 67 in the championship game, never mind the supposed powerhouses that couldn't get there.
It's worth noting that the Holiday Bowl has now hosted the #5 team in the land for three years running. Cal last year, Texas the year before. They both lost. It wouldn't surprise me if Oregon does, too, much as I want 'em to win.
I say add the Cotton Bowl to the BCS with no conference tie-ins. This year it should have been Oregon vs. Auburn, two BCS teams that got screwed out of the picture.
Dec 6, '05
Why is it a moot point? Obviously it means that the Pac-10 is weak. UCLA wasn't really a top 15 team, and they will be exposed when they play Northwestern.
And the BCS is adding a 5th bowl next season
Dec 6, '05
HAHAHAHA!!! You're pissed off and there's nothing you can do about it but cry sour grapes!!! C'mon, let's hear some more crybaby moaning! Waaaaaaaa!!!!
10:15 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
joe, you're doing a dang good job of crying & moaning. your school must have gone 2-9.
10:20 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
and once again, john dunagan does not disappoint. florida's gain is oregon's loss. it's frikkin' cold here, john, though so you're trading living in that circus land down there, and it's good winter weather, for the sanity of being in oregon.
and don't worry about the ducks. this is a special team. the defense has just grown and grown; 4 years ago, aaron gipson was getting torched for hundreds of yards, literally, by asu. this year he led the pac 10 in picks. ngata is a monster. the lb's are excellent. and the offense did not let losing clemens stop them at all. belotti will have the guys ready, and you'll be looking at a final ranking of the ducks of 4 or 5. not bad for a team 5-6 last year and picked to finish the same, or worse.
11:23 p.m.
Dec 6, '05
Why thank you, Todd.
I will be tuning into that Holiday Bowl, as out here in all-Gators/Noles/Canes all-the-time land, it will be the first time I (or for that matter, any of my fellow residents without insomnia or a wicked-expensive satellite package) will get to see them play.
And I'm not worried about the Holiday Bowl - hell, McNary runs Stoops' offense better than Stoops can. Muzzle Adrian Peterson and it's over for the Sooners.
Around here, the rank injustice is that suffered by Gator Fan. Florida loses 3 games and gets Iowa in Tampa for the Forced-Contribution-to Republican-PACs Steak Bowl. Florida State loses to Florida and 3 others, yet by virtue of a win over a vastly-overrated Va. Tech team(Marcus Vick != Michael Vick), plays JoePa in Miami for the Lie-Before-Congress Orange.
Hilarious.
Oh, and Level_Headed, you need to demand your money back from The Ohio State University at Columbus: the reason it's moot is because 1)schedules are decided up to five years in advance, and teams (such as Michigan) that would rather cash in against Northern Illinois or the local directional school than play a tough game they scheduled can leave their opponents high-and-dry the same season they were supposed to play. Cause of course, UM needs the money, and Northern Illinois can travel better.
I used to think men played at Michigan. They still might, but their athletic department is run by jellyfish. Bo wouldn't have been afraid of the Ducks. And they totally deserve to play the Huskers, another Team that Time Forgot. I hope Riverwalk is closed for Red Tide in San Antonio this year.
Dec 7, '05
Level_headed: Notre Dame moved up one notch in the rankings after losing to SC. Fresno State was knocked down one or two spots.
I'm guessing you live somewhere in the Central or Eastern Time zones where they don't realize the best athletes and football programs are on the west coast. If you think the Pac-10 is weak, check the Holiday Bowl history. In recent years, the Pac-10 more often than not beats its Big 12 counterpart. Or check the regular season: Oregon has beaten Mississippi State and Michigan, UCLA beat Oklahoma, Oregon State has killed Notre Dame twice and came within 3 missed PATs of beating LSU. USC beats Notre Dame every year... that's just off the top of my head.
Honestly, I hate the Oregon Ducks with a passion, but they are hands down a better team than Notre Dame, Georgia, West Virginia, Florida State and probably Penn State as well.
Dec 7, '05
I say add the Cotton Bowl to the BCS with no conference tie-ins. This year it should have been Oregon vs. Auburn, two BCS teams that got screwed out of the picture.
As a long-time Duck fan writing in from central Texas I gotta say no way. Not the Cotton Bowl. The actual Cotton Bowl stadium is a decaying old monstrosity sitting in the State Fair Grounds in Dallas. No one wants to play there. Other than the bowl game, the only thing they use it for is the annual UT-OU game which is always in Dallas. None of the Dallas teams actually want to play in that stadium. Not the Cowboys, not SMU. Heck, even the Dallas MLS team built its own stadium in the northern suburbs to avoid continuing to play in the Cotton Bowl. Besides, January in Dallas can suck. Today the forcast is for freezing rain.
The Holiday Bowl is a MUCH better candidate for a BCS bowl. And forget Auburn, the Holiday Bowl I'd love to see would be Oregon vs Texas Tech. Now that would be a barn burner. I frankly don't understand why the #2 Pac-10 plays the #3 Big-12 team and the #2 Big-12 goes to the Cotton. I'm willing to bet that most Texas Tech players and fans would rather be spending New Years in San Diego than Dallas.
For that matter, what I really don't understand is why the BCS bowls are automatically so much more lucrative than the next tier non-BCS bowls. OK, perhaps they get a bit better ratings, but will the TV ratings for the Sugar Bowl really be 5-times higher than for the Holiday Bowl?
Dec 7, '05
Actually Ohio State only gets 4 1/2 million. Since there are 2 Big 10 teams in BCS, the auto. bid gets the 14 million and any other team gets 4 1/2 million, which is split among the Big 10.
Dec 7, '05
What gets me is how can anyone think that the current system makes more money than a legit playoff system? Especially if the first round of the playoffs is a series of home games for the top-seeded teams? Imagine that, your team breaks into the top 8 and you get an extra HOME playoff game. Take the top 16 teams from the BCS rankings, make a rule that conference opponents don't play each other in the first round, and seed the tourney accordingly with the first round played at home for the top teams and then the remaining games played at neutral BCS stadiums or other good spots.
This year we'd have the first round as follows:
<h1>1 USC at home vs #15 Texas Tech</h1> <h1>2 Texas at home vs #16 UCLA</h1> <h1>3 Penn St. at home vs #14 TCU</h1> <h1>4 Ohio St. at home vs #13 Alabama</h1> <h1>5 Oregon at home vs #12 LSU</h1> <h1>6 Notre Dame at home vs #11 West Virginia</h1> <h1>7 Georgia at home vs #10 Virginia Tech</h1> <h1>8 Miami at home vs #9 Auburn</h1>Imagine LSU coming into Autzen in December to play a playoff game! All business would cease in Eugene at that game alone would be worth millions.
Imagine the Cinderella potential of a team like TCU going into Happy Valley and stealing one from Penn St. That's what makes the NCAA basketball tourney so compelling. The upsets and surprises. Frankly I'm just bored to tears about the prospect of Notre Dame vs Ohio State in the Fiesta based on "tradition" and all that crap. UPSETS are what is memorable.
And look at the games you'd get in the middle seeds. Oregon vs LSU, Ohio State vs Alabama, Miami vs Auburn, Georgia vs Virginia Tech, Notre Dame vs West Virginia. Immensely compelling games all of them. Imagine the intensity of a winner-take-all game between Georgia and Virginia Tech, or Miami and Auburn? Whew.
Assuming that the seeded teams all win, you'd have 2nd round matchups as follows:
USC vs Miami Texas vs Georgia Penn St vs Notre Dame Ohio St vs Oregon
Good grief, every one of those games is just as compelling if not more so than the entire 2005 Bowl matchups short of the Rose Bowl.
If the seeded teams win again you get the following semi-finals
USC vs Ohio State Texas vs Penn St
And we haven't even reached the finals yet.
Who in their right mind can tell me that a 4-week playoff like that wouldn't make more money and generate more hype than the current abortion that is the Bowl system?
7:59 a.m.
Dec 7, '05
Kent,
They could move the Cotton Bowl to Texas Stadium, or refurbish the Cotton Bowl stadium itself. I like the Cotton Bowl game because it's been around a long time, and it used to be a New Year's Day bowl game with all the prestige of the other ones (Rose, Orange, Sugar) pre-BCS.
Auburn, besides being #7 in the land this year and not getting a shot at a BCS Bowl, also historically gets jobbed by the BCS. They're the opponent Oregon deserves.
The Red Raiders and Oregon would be a good game, too - if you like offense and scores in the 50s. But Texas Tech already gets Alabama in virtually a home bowl game, and that's a fair and decent matchup.
What I don't get is how the Big 12 determines a second-place team - is it Colorado, who even though they gave up and cost Gary Barnett his job (female kickers in Boulder are smiling again) once they got there, at least won their half of the conference and got to that game? Or Tech, who had a better record in that conference than everybody but the Horns, but didn't get to play in the conference championship?
Whatever it is, the conference affiliation has got to go, and if you're going to give Notre Dame preferential treatment for one of the at-larges, you need not one, but two more BCS Bowls.
Dec 7, '05
John:
Somewhere along the line the Cotton Bowl seems to have been replaced by the Fiesta Bowl. Not sure exactly how that happened and if is was a deliberate thing or sort of just evolved. I sort of think the Cotton Bowl declined when the old Southwest Conference disbanded because it used to always have the SWC winner which was usually A&M or Texas. Now that the Cowboys are building a new Stadium in Arlington that would be the logical place to put the Cotton Bowl game. It makes no sense to pour $100 million into a stadium remodel for only 2 games/year at the old cotton bowl. But that's the discussion that's happening right now in Dallas.
Personally I think two more BCS level bowls are warranted if they aren't going to go to a playoff. But not one in Dallas. If you want to have a major bowl game in Texas in January, better to have it in Houston or maybe San Antonio where the weather is going to be better and the week-long party for the Alumni will be better.
But my preference BY FAR is a play-off in which the top seeded teams get home games in the first round. That is the real reward for fishing way up high in the standings. Your fans and city get an extra home game for the playoffs so that all the students and fans who can't travel to some expensive bowl game get to go watch and get crazy.
8:12 a.m.
Dec 7, '05
I read the whole transcript of the Senate hearing on the BCS.
The bowls argued that your playoff system, Kent, would take away from them the ability to make sound business decisions about what teams would make them the most money at their bowl game. And Myles Brand, President of the NCAA and the guy that removed Bobby Knight from Bloomington, sat there and agreed right along with the guy from the Orange Bowl that it was very important that we let the bowl people make their 'business decisions' because it was traditional.
But that's only half the problem. Your grid, there, of the top 16. I only see one team from a non-BCS conference, the Frogs.
Dec 7, '05
nope, jim, that's incorrect but thanks for playing our game.
Ta, actually, the BCS was made to pair the top two teams in a BCS NC. The other three BCS Bowls are decided on a bid process. If the Fiesta for example wants two certain teams to play in it, they extend a bid. The BCS doesn't dictate who plays in the BCS bowls except for the BCS championship game which is #1 vs #2.
This excerpt is from the BCS website:
"Similarly, the Rose Bowl agreed to host a national championship game in rotation with the other bowls. The three bowls that had participated in the Alliance arrangement enthusiastically supported the new approach, and thus was born the BCS. The bowl system could, for the first time in its nearly 100-year history, promise the fans of college football an annual pairing between the top two teams in the nation."
Dec 7, '05
Jim -
Sure, the individual bowls get to choose who they are taking - but the BCS determines almost every member of the eligible pool of teams from which that the BCS bowls can choose. This year they determined every eligible team - there is not a "non-automatic" qualifying team in the pool of teams that the BCS bowls get to choose.
No BCS bowl could choose Oregon this year even if they wanted Oregon.
9:20 a.m.
Dec 7, '05
My interest in the bowl games is going to be lukewarm until we get a playoff system.
You boys from the big, bad Big 10 ought to be ashamed of even showing up here and making those ludicrous strength-of-schedule arguments. The Big 10 leads the way in ducking out of commitments to play Oregon schools because they are afraid they will lose. It happened to Oregon yet again this season. Pathetic.
Dec 7, '05
According to the BCS website, if a BCS bowl loses a host team to the NC game such as what happened with the Fiesta bowl losing Texas, it has first choice in selecting another BCS bowl eligible team. Oregon is a BCS bowl eligible team by virtue of winning at least 9 games and being ranked in the Top 12 of the final BCS standings (Oregon is ranked 5th)
This is the Bowl eligibility criterion as outlined by the BCS website:
Which Teams Are Eligible?
The pool of eligible teams includes:
The teams ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in the final BCS Standings. These two teams will play in the BCS bowl hosting the national championship game.
To the extent that such teams do not qualify to play in the national championship game, the conference champions of the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pacific-10 and Southeastern Conferences. These teams are guaranteed berths.
To the extent that any such team does not qualify to play in the national championship game, any Division I-A independent or team from Conference USA, the Mid-American, Mountain West , Sun Belt or Western Athletic Conference, will earn a guaranteed slot in one of the BCS bowl games should that team be ranked sixth or higher in the final BCS Standings. Should the number of teams meeting this criterion exceed the number of available slots in the BCS bowls after placement of teams in the national championship game and the six conference champions that are annually guaranteed berths, then the BCS bowls will fill any available slots by choosing from among all such teams that have met this criterion.
All other Division I-A teams that have won at least nine regular season games (not including wins in exempt games) and are ranked among the top 12 in the final BCS Standings are eligible for selection as an at-large team. The final BCS Standings will be released on Sunday, December 4. The conferences whose champions have a guaranteed annual berth in one of the BCS bowls are subject to review and possible loss of that guaranteed annual berth should the conference champion not have an average ranking of 12 or higher over a four-year period.
The Fiesta, since it lost its host team (BIG 12 champs Texas) to the NC game has the option to choose who it wants from the remainding BCS bowl eligible teams which includes Ohio St, VA Tech and Oregon who all have 9 wins or more and are in the top 12 of the BCS rankings. The Fiesta chose Ohio St due to the BCS's policy on creating more exciting, competitive and money generating matchups:
"The pairings established by this selection process may be adjusted by the conference and institutions participating in the BCS, in consultation with the BCS bowls and ABC, in the interest of creating the most exciting and competitive post season matchups possible."
Unfortunately for Oregon, the selection committee feels a Notre Dame/Ohio St matchup would be more compelling for the Fiesta Bowl than a ND/Auburn, ND/VA Tech or ND/Oregon matchup.
You can see it for yourself by going to the BCS selection pool update at:
Dec 7, '05
The bowls argued that your playoff system, Kent, would take away from them the ability to make sound business decisions about what teams would make them the most money at their bowl game. And Myles Brand, President of the NCAA and the guy that removed Bobby Knight from Bloomington, sat there and agreed right along with the guy from the Orange Bowl that it was very important that we let the bowl people make their 'business decisions' because it was traditional.
Ahhh....the real crux of the matter. A bunch of rich civic bosters who run the bowls are controlling the entire system for their own benefit and no one elses. "Business decisions?" How about this for a business decision. Any player worth his salt should scrap NCAA football and go straight to the NFL as fast as possible. If everyone else thinks college football should be guided by business decisions then the players should too.
But that's only half the problem. Your grid, there, of the top 16. I only see one team from a non-BCS conference, the Frogs.
That's because the non-BCS teams have had an off year this year. Last year there would have been three non-BCS teams in the top-16 playoff. Utah, Boise St. and Louisville. No one can seriously argue that the WAC and Mountain West are as tough as the PAC-10 or SEC. But if you have a 16 team tourney then pretty much any non-BCS team that runs the table like those 3 teams did last year is going to qualify. This year there doesn't happen to be another non-BCS team in any of the top-25 lists including the BCS rankings. Who else would you think merits getting in? Fresno State with 4 losses? Boise State or Nevada with 3 losses each? The 2nd place Mountain West team is 6-5 Colorado State. In fact, other than TCU, there is no other non-BCS team with less than 3 losses. In fact, after TCU the non-BCS teams with the best records are Toledo, Boise St. and Nevada with 3 losses each.
Nope, I'm comfortable with only 1 non-BCS team this year.
Dec 7, '05
Jim -
You read the eligibility rules rather than the selection rules. Oregon was indeed BCS eligible - but there were not any "non-automatic at large bid spots" open. Notre Dame was given an automatic spot by virtue of Rule 2 and OSU an automatic spot by virtue of Rule 3.
By BCS rules - Oregon, although eligible, could not have been chosen.
For selection rules see: http://www.bcsfootball.org/index2.cfm?page=standards
This wasn't about a better match-up folks.
10:18 a.m.
Dec 7, '05
jim, once all the games were over, the fiesta bowl was locked into picking osu & nd. read the comments by the director of the fiesta bowl: he said he was relieved not to have be forced to picke between oregon & ohio state. because vatech lost, and i think lsu?, the bowls were locked into their selections based on bcs rules.
Dec 7, '05
At first I was opposed to the idea of Congress wading into the BCS mess. But now, upon reflection, I think it's a great idea for several reasons.
It will be a chance to get all these NCAA and BCS bowl "suits" in front of TV cameras and under oath to defend this turd.
If Congress is messing around with the BCS then at least they aren't doing anything worse.
12:09 p.m.
Dec 7, '05
Yeah, I need to wipe up after reading that hearing transcript. I think my head is going to explode, because it's the first time in my life I can remember having agreed with Orrin Hatch, Mike DeWine, Jeff Sessions, and Joe Biden on an issue, let alone simultaneously. It's just a shame an Oregon Senator couldn't have been at that hearing to introduce the "you even screw your alleged BCS alliance members" angle.
Roarin' Orrin might be a little too proud of that remark from Coach Edwards, however, that BYU fans "come to town with a copy of the Ten Commandments and a $50 bill, and leave without breaking either." It is pretty funny, though.
Dec 7, '05
Sure good to know what lights people's fire on Blue Oregon.
12:58 p.m.
Dec 7, '05
penny, as a frustrated ducks fan, i just wanted to vent. i had no idea people would go nuts like this. i've also seen people go off on topics like "we are not running our schools right" and "pers still sucks" (or words to that effect; you'd have to ask my friend fearless). i've had other topics get almost no response, and to me they were far more important -- perhaps people were too busy thinking to slam out comments. i think we're all still learning how these sites work best. but in 2008, i am going to remember: "The GOP and Notre Dame both suck" -- i'm sure to get plenty of traction on that one.
Dec 7, '05
This is for mikey and Dec. 6th
Hey buddy if you really want to compare teams that the two schools have played why dont we compare them all not just USC.
How about our margin of victory of Washington compared to ND's or what about our margin of victory over Stanford compared to ND's?
Dec 7, '05
Week 7 AP Top 25 1. USC (58) 5-0 1,618 2. Texas (7) 5-0 1,565 3. Virginia Tech 6-0 1,493 4. Florida State 5-0 1,393 5. Georgia 5-0 1,389 6. Alabama 5-0 1,244 7. Miami 4-1 1,205 8. Penn State 6-0 1,096 9. Notre Dame 4-1 1,058 10. LSU 3-1 1,057 11. Florida 5-1 935
Week 8 AP Top 25 1. USC (57) 6-0 1,617 2. Texas (8) 6-0 1,566 3. Virginia Tech 6-0 1,495 4. Georgia 6-0 1,426 5. Alabama 6-0 1,306 6. Miami 5-1 1,278 7. LSU 4-1 1,201 8. UCLA 6-0 1,085 9. Notre Dame 4-2 1,020 Doesn't look like they went up to me, and they actually dropped to 12 in the coaches poll, now let's look at Fresno State shall we?
Week 12 AP Top 25 1. USC (56) 10-0 1,616 2. Texas (9) 10-0 1,569 3. Miami 8-1 1,483 4. LSU 8-1 1,418 5. Penn State 9-1 1,334 6. Notre Dame 7-2 1,246 7. Virginia Tech 8-1 1,214 8. Alabama 9-1 1,176 9. Ohio State 8-2 1,163 10. Oregon 9-1 1,022 11. Auburn 8-2 963 12. UCLA 9-1 876 13. West Virginia 8-1 837 14. Georgia 7-2 780 15. TCU 10-1 719 16. Fresno State 8-1 632
Week 13 AP Top 25 1. USC (50) 11-0 1,586 2. Texas (14) 10-0 1,550 3. LSU 9-1 1,449 4. Penn State 10-1 1,390 5. Virginia Tech 9-1 1,283 6. Notre Dame 8-2 1,281 7. Ohio State 9-2 1,249 8. Oregon 10-1 1,107 9. Auburn 9-2 1,101 10. Miami 8-2 981 11. UCLA 9-1 932 12. West Virginia 8-1 862 13. Georgia 8-2 857 14. Alabama 9-2 723 15. TCU 10-1 722 16. Fresno State 8-2 663
16 does = 16 correct?
I suggest some people get their heads outta their butts before they start an argument.
4:17 p.m.
Dec 7, '05
This is easier, Penny, than sifting through PGE's books like Commissioner Leonard had to. Thus, 70 posts. Democrats aren't just coffee-housers, and football is the sport of working people.
Wait 'til basketball season. I'm still trying to figure out how we lost to Vandy and Georgetown.
4:25 p.m.
Dec 7, '05
Thanks for the ratings, Level.
What's Notre Dame still doing at #9 after that loss to get them to 4-2? What was that, Michigan State? Who'd Weis have to bribe to do that?
I think you've introduced a new dimension to the argument that Notre Dame shouldn't be in the BCS: their artificially inflated rankings to start the year.
I'm with Spurrier, who rated ND #14 - last week. That's about right.
Now, on to Nebraska. You lost to Kansas - IN FOOTBALL. You should either have to lose scholarships in Lincoln for that, or run the spread option. Your choice.
Dec 7, '05
John and T.A., Years ago, when I lived in Pasadena, I served on the Board of Directors of the Rose Bowl Operating Company, the agency which manages the stadium (see http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/rosebowl.asp). The BCS was being developed at that time. The Tournament of Roses, which manages the game and the parade, was opposed to the BCS and only signed on when they were threatened to be left out of the championship games.
I have season tickets to OSU football, women's basketball, and men's basketball and I care if the PAC 10 is ignored by the BCS and the east coast media.
So, the topic is interesting to me. It just doesn't seem very Blue Oregon-ish. Maybe we're branching out.
Dec 7, '05
Doretta,
The reason we won't play Or-ee-gun is because your lame-ass stadium only hold 50,000. Sure, you want to come play in the Big House, pack in 107,000, and cash that big paycheck?
Come on over. But we're not travelling to Eugene! How the heck can we even get there? Do we have to take a Greyhound bus?
And Jeff, the Badgers suck, too! Michigan Rules! HA HA HA HA HA!
8:13 a.m.
Dec 8, '05
Uh, sure, Paul, you didn't notice how big the stadiums were when you made the commitments? Took you the several intervening years to add it up on your fingers? Even your excuses are pathetic.
9:12 a.m.
Dec 8, '05
they had no problem coming to eugene when they thought they'd have an easy victory and ended up taking a whupping from the Ducks. and their alleged big house did them no good against Ohio State, the only game of the year that truly matters. Autzen Stadium, on the other hand, beat Cal all by itself. Autzen may be half the size of the not-so-big house, but it's got more than twice the guts. if you've not been to a game at Autzen, you have missed a hell of an experience.
Dec 9, '05
One point, T.A. Ohio State, as the second Big Ten team in a BCS game, does not receive a full share like Notre Dame. Instead of something like $17 million, the Buckeyes get about $3.5 million. Because USC is in the Rose Bowl, Oregon would also not have received a full share had it made the Fiesta Bowl.
So Oregon gets $1.5 million less than it would have received in a BCS bowl, which split 10-ways is about $150K. In other words, it's chump change.
10:12 a.m.
Dec 9, '05
Wasn't that Michigan game, you know, the one the Wafflerines WIMPED out of, AT Ann Arbor as a return for the game in Autzen? Seems to me Michigan just doesn't want to play the Ducks, no matter where it is.
Man, give Me the ratings! I'll track down all that stuff - if you wimp out, it counts as a loss to the team you were supposed to play. That makes Michigan 6-5 (since they don't get credit for that Northern Illinois scrimmage they arranged in its place, either), which by my reckoning, puts them in San Diego shortly after the Ducks - to play Navy in the San Diego Bowl.