Does this blog come with a laugh track?

Sorry - this race aspect of Katrina, especially as it pertains to the costly ongoing foodfight between our political parties, is so off the mark that I can't take it seriously at all. If you want to help poor blacks, either go teach in an inner-city or poor black rural area, or start a business and hire some poor black people. Getting the parties (Democrats) involved with government mandates in this area is the biggest and costliest distraction this side of the war on drugs.

Oh, and if you want to help poor whites, go teach poor whites or hire them as well. Do not vote Democrat or Republican on this issue because it makes you feel better! You're wasting your time, your vote, and our collective resources!

I'll go ahead and wade into the battle zone here. I come from a conservative family and I am ashamed to say was raised with racist views. Over the years I have had a lot of opportunities to confront my racist upbringing and the internalized racism I didn't realize had existed. I overcame my racism against blacks after spending a year in Zimbabwe in the early 1980s. I overcame my racism against hispanics after living in Woodburn and watching my sons make friends with absolutely the nicest boys - all Mexicans - and working with the most honest and hard-working person I have ever met - again, a Mexican. I have put a lot of thought into my efforts to raise my sons to be devoid of racism, yet not oblivious to it so they can continue the effort to end it. I am so proud of their attitudes. They really give me hope for the future.

I believe based on my own experience that racism still exists very strongly in this country, though nothing like it used to be, and that it is slowly disappearing as the generations move further from the past. However, I also see that those of us who still harbor remnants of racism can experience a flare-up of it in tense circumstances, such as we saw after 9/11 when people of middle-eastern descent were victimized.

In all the history of man, people who are different have not trusted each other and people have tended to form groups or tribes. What we are attempting to do in America - create a melting pot - is not an easy thing. I think if you consider that, most people are doing pretty well.

Of course, my hopes about the future in this regard did just get a good whack back to reality watching so many poor black Americans dying in New Orleans. I've been so angry and so deeply grieved and yet that is nothing compared to the feelings of those who have been so deeply wronged.

I know these are rambling thoughts, but the issue of racism is one that has long distressed and confused me. I hate it, I have experienced it, and I have actively fought it. It's one of many evils in the world that good people must continue to fight vigorously. And we need to have more patience with each other, because racism and fear of differences are deep inside us all - and we are all only human.

I'm pretty sure that US Federal laws have had a major role in putting us where we are today in terms of how black Americans are treated, how much opportunity exists and the de facto segregation that still occurs (for those who would dispute this please see the Jonathon Kozal {sp?} article in the last Harper's).

It seems to me that since government laws have created much of the current situation, it would be naive to think that the government can play no role in fixing where we are, or to think that change could occur entirely without the government.

The poster above who stated that the goverment can't help and that it's a waste of time seems to closely parallel the argument that FEMA shouldn't be blamed for a poor response to the hurricane, because the private sector should do disaster relief.

Mr Ryan - Everybody has the right to detest FEMA except the Bush Administration? And you expect people you refer to as "bastards" promoting fear and division to listen to your policy prognostications? (Actually, you didn't offer any, did you? Your post is full of ... wait... fear-mongering, division, and contempt for those who don't agree with you. Gee that sounds familiar.) Wake up, man. Farenheit 9/11 ended already. I guess if you're going to blame Bush for 9/11 and Islamic fundamentalists you might as well throw in a hurricane as well.

C3po,

Aw, no response to my post? C'mon, why go after the easy one? Oh, that's because you have no response to me. Ha! Coward.

-Rorobnoxious.

You don't have to go too far from home to see the problem. From the Oregonian this morning:

White 10th-graders who met 2005 state math benchmarks: 61 percent. African American 10th-graders who met 2005 state math benchmarks: 18 percent.

Are we racist or is most discrimination along socioeconomic class lines? Question: if you're EuroAmerican where do you feel more comfortable walking at 3 a.m? (a) in a neighborhood of poor African Americans or (b) in a neighborhood of poor Euroamericans? The vast majority of people to whom I've asked this question (including thousands of my former students in courses on human variability) uncomfortably answer "a". Understanding "why" people answer "a" and not "b" probably would go a long way towards resolving the question of whether it is racism or classism that draws the fault line here. If you want to have an even more interesting discussion include "c" a poor Hispanic neighborhood, and "d" a poor Southeast Asian neighborhood. When these additional questions get factored into the equation, the majority of responses are "a", with a significant minority coming from "c" and "d". In other words, virtually anywhere but in a poor Euroamerican neighborhood. The data weren't scientifically gathered, they haven't ever been studied in detail, but they were collected as part of my long-standing interest in the question of how human biological diversity factors into social questions involving "race" , ethnicity and social class.

Rorovitz: I certainly wouldn't rule out government-influenced solutions to either natural disaster relief or racial equity problems. I would only rule them out of your pointless commentary, since there is nothing there but a citation of Jonathon Kozol. Personally, I would start with well-funded voucher and charter school programs in combination with standardized testing. Educated people with career options tend not to live in multi-generational slums. What does your bravery suggest?

Nice mix of good, bad and unconstructive in here. Without naming names or giving opinions on each, some thoughts:

1) Bailie: That's kind of where I'm talking about moving forward from. It's not that it isn't valuable to know such things, but knowing then and promoting solutions to solve them are two separate steps.

2) Re: C2TBF's latest - Vouchers and charter schools are just tools. They'll fail or succeed for the same reason public schools generally fail or succeed; if the parents are sufficiently involved, their kids and schools do a lot better. I count those as primarily wishful thinking borne of the GOP's hostility to public schools. There's still the issue of "accidents of birth" being born to circumstances that inhibit access to the things we take for granted as middle-class white folk (I can say this with confidence for reasons I can't fully disclose).

3) Rorovitz, first, I like your moxie. But whatever the government's responsibility - and I'd pin it more on the culture as a whole - I think there's real merit to what C2TBF proposed in his first post: government has tried a number of solutions, whether it's housing projects, federal grants to struggling schools and so on. A lot of the solution relies on changing the culture; encouraging people - black and white - to take the plunge on opening businesses in struggling neighborhoods and going into struggling schools to teach. Government can encourage these things through a variety of means, but people do them.

4) My favorite so far came from mrfearless47. Very interesting comment and way to look at all this. Personally - and I've tried this in multiple cities across the country - I find that I mistrust teenage males in general; race doesn't enter into the picture. And I can promise you that I've encountered teenage males of all races at the Plaid Pantry up the block from my old house.

Thanks to Pat Ryan for fielding that one. I about jumped in there with a pair of links. Here they are (LINK and LINK). Not all "Bush-bashing" is gratuitous. When a president cuts funding for a bunch of programs that prove needed later - especially when your daydream of a private-sector take-over is not yet ready - said president has to answer for those decisions.

As for torridjoe's comment, I feel comfortable making those generalizations because I once was a teenage male. Oh, the impulses I had....

When some are uneducated, undereducated, poor, disabled, physically ill or weak they tend to be disempowered AND invisible; particularly during times of emergency like Katrina.

All school kids should constantly be reminded that school is, indeed, relevant. Keep reminding them that education, workplace skills and good health are the foundation of self sufficiency. Depending on the kindness of others is the worst position a person can put himself in. Katrina showed us one of those times when many found out "the other guys" can sometimes be too busy taking care of themselves to give the disempowered and invisible a hand.

Anne, that was a hoot. Much like the "Would you have been a Nazi?" test, this one made me nervous - probably a function of not wanting to come to grips with the possibility that I was automatically associate "black" and "bad." Like you, however, I came up "inconclusive." That means nothing, really, but I actually prefer not knowing.

Here's an example of kids needing a teachable moment from the lessons of Katrina.

"An interesting survey question, mrfearless--one where of course the only proper answer is to refuse on the grounds that none of the neighborhoods should cause any differential discomfort whatsoever."

Who determines what is "proper" or not here? The only question is what your comfort level is with being dropped off alone at 3 a.m. in one of those neighborhoods. I submit that the overwhelming answer given by students since the mid 1980's is that they would feel least comfortable in a poor African-American neighborhood, followed (in later cohorts) by a poor Latino neighborhood, followed by a poor Southeast Asian neighborhood. Few chose "poor euroamerican neighborhood". Is that evidence of racism? Don't know but a whole lot of students squirmed in their seats when we discussed the results of the survey for their specific class. Most of them deny they're racist, but when confronted with the overwhelming responses they gave anonymously, they admitted to being at least a bit racist - (their word, not mine by the way). I merely asked them to explain their responses and they were the ones who admitted they were probably being racist even though they never considered themselves to be so. It was a worthwhile pedagogical exercise and thought experiment. Nothing more is claimed here.

What's my answer to the question? My answer is that at my age, I wouldn't be caught dead anywhere at 3 am; I'm too old and worn out for that. But if pressed I'd also probably say I'd feel least comfortable in an African American neighborhood and most comfortable in either a poor euroamerican or poor Latino neighborhood.

Poor and powerless is just that, white, black, etc. If you are that, then you are going to suffer more whenever something goes wrong. A fair question is what percentage of a race is poor and powerless, if a race is over represented then it becomes obvious that something structural is going on, since it's not a winning choice to make. It should be obvious that the economic structure of this nation is tilted toward wealth (and influence) and heading more that direction yearly. This means that anyone poor is going to have a worse time of it, while this might say something about the poor getting poorer, it doesn't address race. I think that here you have to look at social structure, and this is where it gets real dicey. Is educational disparity just a function of white neglect or does it cut both ways, that the social structure of both communities has a negative effect on education? How many other areas does this apply?

I am stongly inclined to make my value judgements about people based on their actions, that said, as a white I would feel safer in a poor white neighborhood. Guess what, I won't stand out, and I won't be a target of resentment. Does that make me racist, hardly, just realistic. I have no particular feelings about any race of people, I'm not blind, I can see colors and features, but they evoke no reaction in me, I cetainly don't find whites more trustworthy or generous than anyone else. My bigotry is limitted to liars, cheats, and theives, well represented by the current administration...

I've put a good deal of thought into whether the response was racist and why violence and looting broke out the way it did in New Orleans. There are hushed and overt implications that the behavior we saw there wouldn't have happened anywhere else (that is, in a white community). I still maintain that help would have arrived sooner had the remaining residents of New Orleans been white. But I think pointing to race as the cause for the violence and looting is a knee-jerk reaction that is flat wrong. I would warrant that if you put any group of people in a situation where no help came for days, no one seemed to care, they had lost everything, the police were looting, and gangs of drug-starved armed people were running around (as would be the case anywhere there are a number of tweakers and other drug addicts), you would see the unrest spread very quickly. If the cops are looting and you're hungry and dirty and hopeless, why not join in? Doesn't make it universally OK, but it does make it more understandable (and I have no problem with looting of food, water, and clothing).

What I think we should be asking is why are police corrupt in New Orleans and why has no one dealt adequately with the drug problem? It's got to be a symptom of something deeper. The police are likely exhibiting the behavior they have absorbed as acceptable from higher up officials. When government is more interested in cronyism, power, favors, and money than it is in the good of the people, anarchy results. Because when the people's faith that their government will treat them fairly breaks down they resort to self help. I see symptoms of a growing distrust of government in Oregon, too (which is why, I believe, the property rights and tax limitation measures have passed). We've got to quit tolerating it even when the perpetrators are on our side.

I can't get out of my mind the sound of one sobbing, anguished woman who said something to the effect of, "We're dirty. We haven't been able to bathe or wash our clothes. This is not the way we live!" How tragic is it that we spotlight these people at their darkest hour, showing pictures of them dirty, worn out, and exhausted to the world and not helping them for so long, until they felt such humiliation. That lack of humanity, to me, is the greatest tragedy and shame of all of this.

There's plenty of racism in Louisiana and throughout the US, but I think New Orleans was ignored because its people are poor and its leadership Democratic, not Black. It's important to confront and end racism, but it's politically self-defeating to confuse classism with racism. The Shrubbery is out to screw everyone but the super-rich. They are succeeding at this because they have hoodwinked a majority of the poor and middle class white folk who are being screwed as badly - alright, almost as badly - as poor black folk are being screwed. Unfortunately, quite a few of those white folk suffer the disease of racism, and will not find charges of racism a good reason to turn on the Shrubbery.

<h2>On the topic of Bush bashing - if you are not doing it, either you are not paying attention, or you don't give a damn.</h2>