Where Have All The 'Jihadists' Gone?
The One True bIX
In the not too distant past, Robert Jordan, Special Agent-in-Charge of the Portland office of the FBI, was pushing a boogeyman story to the press, "coincidentally" right in the middle of a fairly public debate in Portland about the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
Um, oops?
KGW/AP (February 17, 2005):
In an interview with The Associated Press last month, Jordan said: "We have people here in Oregon that have trained in jihadist camps in bad areas. In the bad neighborhoods of the world." He added that the FBI knows "they've trained overseas, taken oaths to kill Americans and engage in jihad," but the challenge is "to prove those things."
ABC News (March 9, 2005):
"Al-Qa'ida leadership's intention to attack the United States is not in question," the report reads. (All spellings are as rendered in the original report.) "However, their capability to do so is unclear, particularly in regard to 'spectacular' operations. We believe al-Qa'ida's capability to launch attacks within the United States is dependent on its ability to infiltrate and maintain operatives in the United States."
And for all the worry about Osama bin Laden's sleeper cells or agents in the United States, a secret FBI assessment concludes it knows of none.
The 32-page assessment says flatly, "To date, we have not identified any true 'sleeper' agents in the US," seemingly contradicting the "sleeper cell" description prosecutors assigned to seven men in Lackawanna, N.Y., in 2002.
(Emphasis in that second quote added by me, in case anyone was confused about why I was juxtaposing segments from these two articles.)
Now that we look back on these quotes, however, we guess there's maybe an explanation for the apparent discrepancy other than Jordan just being full of politically-motivated hot air.
If there are any sleeper cells in America, they get the benefit of people like Jordan mindlessly shooting off their mouths in ways that alert those hypothetical cells that the FBI is on to them. Result? They hide better, and there's no evidence of them.
Either way, it would seem to me that Jordan comes off looking not too particularly bright. He's either fear-mongering, or tipping off the enemy. I don't know about anyone else, but neither option makes me feel particularly safe, no matter what the reality of sleeping "jihadists" may be.
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Mar 10, '05
Either way, it would seem to me that Jordan comes off looking not too particularly bright. He's either fear-mongering, or tipping off the enemy.
The press does more to tip off the Islamofacist than the FBI does. Just because we haven't had anyone else from Vera's office arrested doesn't mean there aren't any. My police officer friend has pulled over Islamofacist before and the FBI gets on the horn and tells him not to ticket or arrest them. They ask him to just follow up with the FBI with what he witnessed. There have also been other Islamofacist in Oregon that had a house visit by the police. Within the week after the visit, the whole mess of them when back to their home country.
How does that saying go...? When you least expect something...
11:48 p.m.
Mar 10, '05
Did your police friend happen to tell you just what magical powers of deduction allowed him to know he had pulled over an Islamofacist?
Wait. I bet I know exactly what made him decide it was an Islamofacist. But please, tell me. Because I'd really like the chance to call it what it is by name.
Mar 11, '05
heh.
11:27 a.m.
Mar 11, '05
I recall that John Minnis wanted to classify terrorists in SB742 in the 2003 legislature. This would have made it a crime punishable by a minimum sentence of 25 years in jail to obsruct traffic with a demonstration among other things.
Bottom line? If you don't have probable cause to arrest, you shouldn't be able to keep 'em from getting on planes or worse yet from purchasing a firearm.
Let's just get a bonfire going and burn the damned Bill of Rights.
Mar 13, '05
b!x
Did your police friend happen to tell you just what magical powers of deduction allowed him to know he had pulled over an Islamofacist?
The magical power was the FBI getting on his radio. Do you doubt me? Do you think I'm lying? Want to put some money on it if you think you know the truth?
9:29 a.m.
Mar 13, '05
That's not how this works. How this works is if you make a wild assertion, you need to prove it.
Back up your shit, or put it back in your ass.
Mar 13, '05
Wow! Nice swear words. Grow up. Like I said if you think I'm lying, put some money on it and I will put you in contact with the right people to confirm my story. Otherwise... BTW, it not a wild assertion. Call the bureau and ask. Just because you don't know the truth doesn't make it not true. Don't take it out on my if there was garbage in your original post. Clean up your own act.
9:52 a.m.
Mar 13, '05
OK, boys, let's settle down and quit the namecalling.
Andy... to be fair, you made a pretty strong assertion. One that, if true, would be a worldwide news headline - that the FBI told a local police officer to stand down on a known terrorist.
So, let's get some facts in play: What's the name of your police officer friend? Can you share the name of an FBI official that can confirm your story?
If not, I think I'll ask you to walk back your initial assertion in the absence of any other documentation.
Mar 13, '05
One that, if true, would be a worldwide news headline - that the FBI told a local police officer to stand down on a known terrorist.
Did I ever say that? You were not reading it right. I said he has pulled over Islamofacist. My definition of an Islamofacist is someone who believes in the cause of OBL. That doesn't make them terrorist even though the chance of becoming a terrorist is a million times greater than you or I.
What's the name of your police officer friend?
I can't openly share that over this forum without getting him or her in some sort of trouble. If you want to send me your number to my e-mail, I can have him or her call you while on duty.
Can you share the name of an FBI official that can confirm your story?
Don't know anybody in the FBI anymore, never said I did. I said you can call them and ask if they have Islamofacist under surveillance in the Metro area.
If not, I think I'll ask you to walk back your initial assertion in the absence of any other documentation.
Nope, won't do it. I know it's true and I will bet any amount if you still doubt me.
10:39 a.m.
Mar 13, '05
b!X and Kari,
I'll bet that I know what happened. Andy's cop buddy pulled over a middle eastern looking gentleman (obviously with probable cause as the law stipulates).
They then spent a couple of hours in dialogue so that the officer could deduce beyond a reasonable doubt where the driver stood on a variety of religious, political, and moral issues.
After this initial research and a call from the Feds, it became clear to Andy's friend that foul play was afoot but that the FBI was on the case and had finally found a member of the first and only "sleeper cell" to be uncovered in the US since 9/11.
Yeah, that must be it.....
1:18 p.m.
Mar 13, '05
I find it interesting that he's not willing, or is unable, to offer the proof, but claims he could somehow win a bet about it.
I'll bet that I know what happened. Andy's cop buddy pulled over a middle eastern looking gentleman...
Just stop there and you have the explanation.
Mar 13, '05
I find it interesting that he's not willing, or is unable, to offer the proof, but claims he could somehow win a bet about it.
Don't be a coward b!x and send me your number via e-mail and I will have my friend call you. Are you afraid of the truth? BTW, I am willing and able to offer the proof. It is you who is unwilling to follow through with the truth. Why???
8:18 p.m.
Mar 13, '05
Andy... First, my phone number is available on my website at MandateMedia.com. If your friend would like to call and share his story, that would be great.
Secondly, if you're saying that he pulled over someone who is a member of the Osama Bin Laden Fan Club, well, then there's no wonder that the FBI told the cop to release him. After all, having evil thoughts isn't a crime. You actually have to do something (or at least conspire to do something) to get arrested.
Seems to me that you've got a nonstory here. Bix's original column pointed out that the FBI now agrees that there are zero sleeper agents in the USA - which contradicted our local Special Agent in Charge.
You started jumping up and down about your cop friend, but once challenged, you backed off - arguing that no, your pal didn't grab a sleeper agent... just some member of the OBL Fan Club.
So, your initial comment is non-germane. It has nothing to do with Bix's post, and doesn't contradict it... or the FBI.
8:24 p.m.
Mar 13, '05
If there's proof of anything legitimate, post it. Why make people jump through hoops of contacting you privately?
You made these wild assertions in a public forum. You have an obligation to back up your claims in that same forum. Period.
Mar 13, '05
Do you always have to get the last word? Besides that, can't you read? I have already told you that I can't publicly give out his/her name without knowing if anything will have to this person in return. You're willing to sacrifice someone's job? Are you kidding??? You asked for proof and I'm willing to give it to you if you were not such a chicken. Yes, chicken. This tit for tat with you is getting really old. The assertions I make are not wild as you claim. They are only contradictory to your beliefs. Have you ever talked to any police officers to see if they have experienced the same thing? Probably not. So until you do, you are just plain ignorant! You are unwilling to enter a battlefield that you will clearly lose in. Say what you want from now on and it will make no difference until you are willing to make first contact. Period!
9:36 p.m.
Mar 13, '05
Andy, once again - my phone # is available, and I welcome a call.
That said, I think we've got two arguments passing in the dark. Your initial comment purported to contradict Bix, but as you clarified later, you really don't contradict Bix's post: "My definition of an Islamofacist is someone who believes in the cause of OBL. That doesn't make them terrorist..."
We don't have an argument here. Bix's initial post remains uncontradicted. Your comment about your cop friend is also uncontradicted, but not particularly interesting..... yeah, the FBI made him release someone who hadn't done anything wrong. Big f'ing deal.