Growing Pains at BlueOregon
Kari Chisholm
Anytime you've got a community of writers, thinkers, and activists, you're bound to ruffle some feathers once in a while. And while I've got a lot of better things to do than to police and babysit BlueOregon, it's time to lay down a few guidelines for everyone - and talk a little bit about the kind of place BlueOregon is. And isn't.
As we said when we launched BlueOregon, it's the water cooler around which Oregon progressives will gather. A place for open and friendly discussion about things that matter. We told you we wanted our contributors to motivate, educate, and elucidate.
But, unfortunately, as in every great batch of cider, once in a while a few rotten apples get into the barrel. I'm not interested in naming names or pointing fingers, but I'd like to share a few guidelines.
* BlueOregon is about open discussion and debate. Our goal is to be a place for progressives to gather, though the occasional conservative is certainly welcome. Even you, Lars. (Of course, we're still waiting for someone to launch RedOregon!)
* The idea of "progressive" is a loose one. We are certainly interested, as we said at launch, in having a wide range of voices - from urban sophisticates to gun-truck-and-dog Democrats; from radical vegetarian leftists to cranky government skeptics. We want to reflect the full diversity of Oregon progressivism - socio-economically, geographically, ideologically, ethnically, and beyond.
* We are explicitly NOT about shutting down debate or discussion. We're NOT about "the party line." It is legitimate to disagree. It is legitimate for our commenters to disagree with our contributors. We will NOT delete, censor, or edit comments because we disagree with their content.
* Of course, we will delete comment spam (porn, mortgages, offshore gambling, etc.) immediately and without notice.
* Site admins (not contributors) may edit comments that are wildly off-topic. In those cases, we'll delete only the off-topic portions, but leave an editorial note that it happened. Site admins may edit comments that contain copyrighted material that is cut-and-pasted whole. When possible, we'll drop in a link instead and we'll always leave an editorial note that it happened. We will not delete comments without some kind of notice.
* We expect that everyone who posts and comments on BlueOregon to be respectful of the commons. As a free (as in beer) resource, it's important that everyone who participates doesn't over-participate - excluding other voices either through quantity or tone of posts. That kind of over-participation can result in a tragedy of the commons - and this resource will no longer be free (as in speech).
* We also expect that everyone who posts and comments on BlueOregon be respectful of each other. There's just no reason to get into name-calling and ad hominem personal attacks. Oregon's a small place, and you never know when you might meet someone in person.
* Finally, effective Monday, none of contributors will continue to post anonymously. With access comes responsibility, and writing over a real name ensures that our writers are accountable for their words. Our commenters may still post over whatever screen name they'd like. We only ask that you use the same one consistently - so that readers may follow your thoughts from comment to comment.
* Our responsibility as publishers is to manage this resource for everyone's benefit. We make editorial decisions almost every day - not to censor or restrict ideas, but to maintain quality. Just as a newspaper makes choices about which editorials appear and which don't and which columnists are hired and which are not, we'll do the same when selecting our regular contributors and guest columns. We will continue to seek to have diverse and interesting progressive voices.
* If these guidelines are too much for anyone hanging out here at BlueOregon, I recommend launching your own blog. It's easy and it's free (as in beer). We recommend Blogger.com and Typepad.com. You can be publishing all you want in about five minutes.
Behind the scenes, we're constantly prodding our writers to contribute, suggesting ideas, soliciting guest commentary, building new features and the like. We'll keep doing that, and you may notice some changes from time to time. Some will be announced, and others won't.
Just keep talking. Share those ideas. Think globally, act locally. Change the world. And above all, keep your hands off my beer.
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connect with blueoregon
Feb 11, '05
Thanks, Kari.
11:39 a.m.
Feb 11, '05
Thank you Kari and BlueOregon.
Feb 11, '05
Huzzah. I raise my cuppa joe in salute. I would salute with a beer, but I don't drink.
Thank you very much, Kari.
Feb 11, '05
Having moderated a number of online communities, I know it's often a thankless task. So thanks, Kari. :)
12:10 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
I hope the suggestions are followed and this continues to evolve for the better.
Feb 11, '05
Good stuff, Kari. Thanks. But I object to your insinuation that "radical vegetarian leftists" and "cranky government skeptics" are on opposite ends of the spectrum. :)
1:41 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
While we're thanking people, I want to thank all the commenters who have kept me on my toes and opened my eyes to new & different ways of thinking. Thanks to Kari, too, for keeping this an interesting (and thoughtful) place to discuss issues.
Feb 11, '05
Currently, Blue Oregon appears mainly to be about pabulum. Many of the entries are simply childish cheerleading for a very unsophisticated notion of who Democrats are. The reality is many times more complex. It is not surprising the site is largely moribund, since it barely touches on the broad base of support for liberal/progressive politics here or elsewhere.
Some of the commenters are so irrational they may be posting from mental health facilities. Instead of being giving the dose of reality therapy they need (gays can't marry in Oregon, fluoride has not been proven to 'poison' water supplies, dishonesty is not a trait of Republicans only, etc.,) their nonsense is encouraged, even catered to.
The kind of tripe being paraded by too many at Blue Oregon is one of the reasons the Democrats lost the recent election nationally. More reasonable people see babbling idiocy, such as the gay fellow who kept insisting he is married after that matter has been clarified well enough for any reasonable person to understand it. They watch others egg the silliness on. Then, they conclude that most or all Democrats have become so irrational we think like that. They leave the party. That is understandable. To the extent the party is perceived as representing crackpots, it will continue to lose support. By encouraging crackpots, a site like this one actually does the Democrats a disservice.
I believe Kari Chisholm has made a choice to host a site that discourages intelligent discourse and encourages crackpots, such as most of the commenters who have appeared on this thread so far. It is definitely his right to do that, and, he is already reaping the consequences.
I would be remiss if I did not also mention the often racist behavior of many of the same participants. As the only minority person and one of the few women to have contributed to Blue Oregon, I have been quite aware of it for the few weeks I've paid attention to the site. The same crackpots Chisholm is catering to have followed me from entry to entry posting insults, including one of them (Jim) calling me a child molester. It has not mattered what the entry was about, so there is no nexus between what I've written and their irrational behavior. Their not very far removed kin lynched people of color who were achievers. They try to achieve similar ends through other forms of harrassment. I interpret Chisholm's encouragement of them to mean that he shares their views. I may have more to say about 'liberals' who engage in racist behavior at Silver Rights.
2:31 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Vive la difference!
(French, how's that for blue state?)
good work kari and all bluestate brethren.
2:38 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Further, this site clearly is a conspiracy by Zeta Reticulans to undermine Oregon's politics just perior to an all out invasion of saucer men seeking pungent neo-hippies to be the indentured servants for their Hollow Earth mining operations.
Feb 11, '05
Damn, b!X has uncovered our secret, Zetans! flee! flee!
Feb 11, '05
Diva:
In the spirit of openness and wanting you to stay with BlueOregon, I would like to invite you to a cuppa joe at my fave cafe: Haven. On me. I want you to stay, and I would love to show you that being open is far better than hiding behind anonymity.
email my if you would be up for the offer. I am off work Sunday and Monday.
3:14 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Me too, Me too.
Many thanks to Kari, Jeff, and Jesse for nurturing this effort.
Just the opinion of one mentally ill, simple minded, racist, progressive white male.
3:16 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Dang,
forgot to add "misogynist".
And my compliments to Mac on getting the spelling of "pabulum" correct. Truly a sign of a towering intellect.
Feb 11, '05
I so much didn't want to say anything more, and just wanted for this to be done with. But I need to clear my name.
I absolutely, positively did not call anyone a child molester on this blog, or anywhere else, except in the past at (503) 731-3100, the child abuse reporting hotline.
I have worked for decades, personally and professionally, in state and local agencies, and in a public and private scope, to advance child welfare and build child protective services. For years I was a statutorily mandated reporter of suspected child abuse. I know about this dark and gruesome matter. If I beleved that someone was a child abuser I assure us all that I would not rest at posting a comment on a blog.
Feb 11, '05
Hey, Jim:
I thought it was a game of "easter egg"! I was searching through all the posts looking for the accusation in question. I kinda lost interest around December, but I couldn't find it.
Sorry for the bit of gallows humor.
Folks, I have known Jim since I was 15 years old. I cannot speak highly enough of Jim, his work, and his honor and integrity.
Feb 11, '05
Mac Diva,
You the only minority--mistruths--Lew Frederick is a minority. I think that Kenji Sugahara would qualify as well as a minority.
Feb 11, '05
Mac Diva,
Do you get to define "Crack pot" on this site?
I believe all ideas should be explored. I mean in 1999 many "crack pots" said Enron was nothing but a shell game. Those crazies what were they thinking :)
If anything Progressives should be as openminded as possible and never be limited in thought by those who can't or won't think outside the box. As long as we keep it clean this site should be as open as possible to new ideas or alternative thoughts.
4:03 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Thanks, everyone, for the encouragement. I'll let all the comments here speak for themselves.
I do want to issue one simple factual clarification...
Women contributors to BlueOregon include (as far as I know):
Elizabeth Cage Leslie Carlson Mac Diva Erin Haick Mari Margil Anne Martens Erika Meyer Wendy Radmacher-Willis Rachael Vorberg-Rugh
People of color who contribute here at BlueOregon include (as far as I know):
Mac Diva Lew Frederick Anne Martens Kenji Sugahara
And, of course, we're always looking to increase our diversity - in these ways, as well as in geography, attitude, age, flavor of progressive ideology, and more. Thanks.
-kari.
Feb 11, '05
Anyone got a line on whether Mac will be here Monday?
Certainly "Mac" is welcome as a commentator... but if she looses her "contributor" status I won't miss it.
Randy
Feb 11, '05
Where's the free beer?
4:28 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
A last thought on diversity. We're adding great, interesting writers as fast we can - and are especially looking to fill holes in our diversity.
(Of all kinds. For example, we added Joshua Gibson of Fagistan recently because he's a foul-mouthed film critic. And we didn't have enough swearing going on, nor enough film criticism.)
In any case, I can't compel people to write. So, our diversity - of all kinds - is only as good as the people who volunteer to contribute.
If you're interested in contributing, submit a few guest columns and we'll get you started.
Terry, drop by next month's Progressive Happy Hour, and the free beer (and speech) is on me.
6:05 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
I'll admit that I've transgressed these rules (mostly in responding to Republicans, but nonetheless) before they were set.
Therefore, Kari, if you're up to it, feel free to delete any comments I've posted that violate those rules. In the meantime, I'll avoid any threads about Lars Larson. I still, however, stand by what I said in the gay rights threads, and most of the others.
Thank you for the improvement in community.
6:12 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Thanks Kari.
Just the opinion of a second wave feminist, life-long Dem, aunt of Rachael Vorberg Rugh, Margret Atwood fan, Janis Joplin turned up LOUD, martini drinking middle aged, southern Oregon bred, big bellied fool.
Feb 11, '05
Progressive Happy Hour?
I pound out my progressive articles dutifully but am kept in the dark about the fringe benefits of being a Blue Oregon contributor?
Am I, alas, the subject of age and follicle discrimination?
I think I may organize a union of Blue Oregon writers so that we all get the benefits afforded to some but not extended to all.
I will, however, restrain myself from setting up a picket line around Kari's house/business on the condition that I be notified of the location of the next Progressive Happy Hour.
Otherwise, I may have to call my friends from the Teamsters.
Feb 11, '05
Keri, I intend to write an entry about Blue Oregon and would appreciate having a photograph of you to go with it. You can email it to me. Small to medium, preferably color.
Christopher Frankonis (B!X) says:
Further, this site clearly is a conspiracy by Zeta Reticulans to undermine Oregon's politics just perior to an all out invasion of saucer men seeking pungent neo-hippies to be the indentured servants for their Hollow Earth mining operations.
That is exactly the kind of response to concern about racism that is leads people of color to distance themselves from white so-called 'liberals.' One moment, you expect our support. The next, you insult our intelligence. Fortunately, Zeta Reticulans do not vote. But, people of color do and they have largely voted Democrat. However, as the last election revealed, the distancing is starting to have an impact at the polls. Some minority voters have moved Right, seeing little difference between the racial insensitivity of white Republicans and the racial insensitivity of white Democrats. Others are no longer voting, rather than be in the same party with people like the crackpots I've referred to. I have copied Frankonis' remark to use as an example of just how far out of touch many ersatz progressives are when it comes to matters of racial justice.
Randy S., my readership dwarfs Blue Oregon's. I don't need to be here. In fact, I never added BO to my blogroll or linked to it because it fails to meet my standards. Pabulum and crackpots are K.C.'s notion of what makes a readable blog, not mine.
Feb 11, '05
Mac:
You have a great blog, but it is important to note that as of last night, it was a one-sided blog. You write, we read. No contribute.
While I am quite sure that is the way to maintain your standards, it isn't a very good way to encourage the exchange of ideas.
I applaud your blog. I enjoyed it before you started telling people I deserved to get bashed, and I still give it high marks. However, its a bit disingenious to tell us we are beneath you and deriding us for our participation, while comparing this blog to yours. This is a different animal, and should be judged accordingly.
6:53 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Commissioner Leonard, I don't think you're being discriminated against because of your hair. I have twice--maybe three times--as much hair as you and this is the first I've heard of Progressive Happy Hour.
I'll be by your office Monday to pick up my union card. Then you, me and all our brothers and sisters at BlueOregon can get the free beer we so richly deserve.
Feb 11, '05
Leslie- It is good to have a "sister in arms" in our struggle for humane working conditions!
7:47 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
Mac -- for me personally... your commentary will be missed, but your ego will not.
Feb 11, '05
Mac Diva writes: One moment, you expect our support. The next, you insult our intelligence.
Unless there has been some election for "person of color spokesperson," perhaps a more honest rendering of this line would have been "One moment, you expect my support. The next, you insult our intelligence." The great thing about a blog like this is that your intelligence -- along with a host of other things about you -- is judged by each post. If you post wacko things accusing everyone (or most everyone) of being irrational, well, someone else might reasonably believe that your next post might be about flying saucers. Is this not obvious?
9:24 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
You tell me where we're drinking next Progressive Happy Hour, I'll be there.
9:28 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
I'd also like to thank the community who have grown around Blue Oregon. For the most part, folks have offered wonderful commentary--often I feel the comments are better than the initial posts (particularly in my case). With Lars and other conservatives popping in from time to time, we also don't have to deal with the dreaded echo chamber.
I continue to hope we have a wide variety of voices at Blue Oregon, both on posts and in the comments. There's absolutely no idea or perspective I don't want to hear. I just hope we can keep commentary--however heated--from sliding into the personal. That's when we get into trouble. Courtesy--and insults--flow both directions.
We've been live now for just over six months. Looks to me like a pretty good start--
Feb 11, '05
JJ,
That is true about Mac Diva.
She lives in a nice stained glass house. This is a shame, for most of the time she has a good point to bring to the table; but her blinding angst towards others, and the comments of others; lowers her impact during the discourse of the topic.
11:38 p.m.
Feb 11, '05
You know, I'd only mind suddenly being some sort of posterboy for racial insensitivty if anyone could ever once demonstrate to me that there has been some sort of racial hostility on this site.
I see Mac Diva again and again throwing accusations around about people who contribute here, and I've never once seen proof.
I wasn't ridiculing concerns about race, Diva. I was ridiculing your unending persona of the Accuser Without Substantiation.
12:24 a.m.
Feb 12, '05
Then again, maybe I am the psoterboy for racial insensitivity. Once, I sat at a cafe in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, with two black female Canadian friends, and one Asian male American friend, and due to a misreading of the menu ("Ask your white person about our breakfast cakes!") sat around creating a complete guide to the Care and Feeding of Your White Person.
Damn, I really am just an insensitive boob, aren't it?
10:31 a.m.
Feb 12, '05
Without expecting it to assomplish anything, I will make the following obsertvation: a photo (in color) of Kari has been up on the "Meet our Contributors" page (link is on the left, near the top) for a long time. As has a nice list of everyone who writes here, including women and people of color.
For all the great disdain apparently held by one contributor for this site, it certainly never stopped that particular contributor from contributing. But it also DID stop them from actually getting to know about the place.
I am amazed when strenuously asserted argument fails to be supported by even the most readily available collection of facts, yet is clung to desperately. It almost feels... Republican.
That last bit may be construed as an ad hominem attack.
11:41 a.m.
Feb 12, '05
Doty, thanks for pointing people to the long-available photo of me and most of our other contributors on the site.
Randy, Leslie, John D... So sorry that I haven't included you on the mailings about Progressive Happy Hour. Will do. If anyone else wants on the list, jump on in.
BlueOregon, Progressive Happy Hour, Politics & Technology, and some other (as yet unannounced) projects are just my little attempts to add to the building of a progressive community in Oregon.
5:04 p.m.
Feb 12, '05
My two cents: the guidelines above seem eminently reasonable. As a frequent reader and occasional contributor, I've noticed absolutely no attempt to censor content--and I'd cry foul if I saw it happening, trust me. Any blog of this type is likely to get a certain amount of overheated rhetoric and occasional interpersonal bickering. There are always a few folks who can't walk away from a good pissing match. But there's also been quite a bit of in-depth reporting and commentary on a variety of topics, and I've been impressed overall with the quality of the writing and the diversity of subject matter.
When it works best, this blog offers the chance to have a thoughtful conversation about what it means to be a progressive. (Oh, and sometimes there are funny jokes.) But mostly, it is the conversation--by which I mean a variety of people engaging one another about ideas and policies, rather than a series of competing monologues--that brings me back to BlueOregon.
I particularly value the posts that lead me to clarify my own views, even when I don't agree with the opinion put forth. When I disagree strongly enough, I figure it is my obligation to contribute to the conversation by offering what I think is a better argument or bringing to light alternative evidence...and not, say, calling the poster some variant of 'asshole.' I like the idea that someone might bring up a viewpoint I haven't encountered, and that my own views can be modified based on experience.
Idealist that I am, I like to believe that a commitment to conversation is what keeps us progressive. If it were easy, this thread wouldn't have 38 posts thus far. But it seems a worthy enterprise.
Kari, et al: won't be able to make Progressive Happy Hour for awhile, given the commute involved...but lift a Boddington's for me!
Feb 13, '05
It's all good. Big up. Word.
Our opinions do not really blossom into fruition until we have expressed them to someone else. I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts. I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. Don't part with your illusions -- when they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. -- Mark Twain (not his real name)
<h1></h1>Feb 14, '05
Kari, Not a content issue but an HTML issue.
Since you added the navigation bar at the top of the screen ("Home" / "Recent Posts" / "Comments"), the RSS feed does not display properly in the Thunderbird email package.
<h2>The nagivation bar appears on top of the first four or five lines of the contributors posting.</h2>