Kari - The difference betweeen Gov. Ted and the four national figures you listed is that Ted actually served his country in uniform - honorably.

Of course, if Ted ever did go up against a national Republican (as opposed to the motley lot we have around here), despite his honorable service they'd soon have him painted as a Satan-worshipper or something.

Ya that was real brilliant Randy. Boy how perfect. Another chance for Randy to mention his 25 years as a firefighter. Another chance to bash Bush while talking about Randy's lights instead any of the severe problems Oregon faces. Problems which Kulongoski is addressing only in his mind and yours. The funeral thing is just the kind of chatter you dwell on versus actually recognizing the broad support President Bush has from our troops. How do you think our troops view your rhetoric? Obviously you couldn't care less. Just as you care less about the severe problems our State faces because your guy is the governor. That's good enough for you. It matters not the failures as long as your folks are the ones who continue meddling with them versus curing them. I find it amazing how utterly useless so many of the threads are on this site. Including your contributions Randy. Self praising gibberish, Lars and Bush bashing, ridiculing conservatives and doing so with the usual non-constructive, adolescent meandering meant to tease taunt and insult. All delivered with the phony progressive air of superior wisdom. And you call talk radio junk? What a joke. As for our governor? It's hard to notice we have one yet you folks are declaring him a success. That's pretty special. "He gets the rural/urban divide?" "He governs the entire State?" "Economic development not too shabby?" Wow!
That is almost too deep for this mind to ponder. Perhaps you can put it in talk radio terms and help me out.
Steve

Dear Randy, Dear John,( I wish it was) Dear Pedro, Dear CC.

First Randy, one of the reasons "THE k-man" better go to the burial's of these people is the "FACT" when the guard left from Salem the first time,(5 MINS FROM HIS OFFICE) he was invited to speak, he was too busy, HE WAS BOWLING over at the coast for some political deal, Parents/ voters/ taxpayers/ mothers ,fathers, wifes etc. were,dare  I say,pissed.

To the rest of you,what crap, the well documented fact is that Bush has done more, in a more meaning way, that not look for a photo/op as you would Randy to tout your 25 yrs of "service".

In private, in person with the familys at the burials when ever he could, too many real vets know this to be true.

Hey John ,you hypocrite,your not supposed to hate, your supposed to love thy enemy.

Unlike the "kman"...my kid will be going back to Iraq for the 4th time, his job takes him in and out of there alot, the road to the the Bagdad airport can be driven "flat out" he told me he has had to do it so many times. Perhaps like Rep. Jeff K."Teddy",can show his support by sticking his neck out and going over himself.

And last to Mr. Leonard, perhaps I can get you a gold plated invite,I happen to know someone going to Bagdad January 5th 2005.

[off-topic material deleted.]

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I'd rather Kulongoski wasn't our governor, but he's not doing too bad in my opinion. But let's see what he does with Measure 37. That's when we'll know whether he respects the will of the voters.

As for Bush, I can't stand the man. He's probably a really fun guy to have a beer (or five) with, but I believe he is strong-arming the American people into things they don't really want. The funerals are typical of his avoidance of difficult public situations that could raise more questions about his policies - like the extreme efforts on the campaign trail to keep out people who weren't completely committed to him.

As for what the soldiers think of Bush, I've heard from soldiers who support him and soldiers who don't. What I'd like to see and probably never will is what percentage of our deployed soldiers actually voted for him.

Randy, you're right about the red white and blue having become stereotypical of the right wing. I've noticed the same thing (I go to a lot of expos and trade shows and the patriotic displays are nearly always fringe right wing groups). The only fix for that is for the left to quit shying away from patriotic displays. Over time, the stereotype will disappear, but for now the left's avoidance of the red white and blue has only exacerbated the right's view that the left is socialist and "hates America". Good choice on your part to leave up the lights.

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I think LBJ, missed a few as well, what do you think then should happen, in the interest of time, have all thousand plus funerals at once.so DIANE LINN can give a paid day off county folks can pay their respects as well........MY GOD, YOU PEOPLE ARE SICK.

Becky says, "As for what the soldiers think of Bush, I've heard from soldiers who support him and soldiers who don't. What I'd like to see and probably never will is what percentage of our deployed soldiers actually voted for him."

What a perfect example of denial. There is no wondering about the military and troops support for President Bush. It is vast, genuine, justified and verified. Believe it or not.

Kari's complaint that it's "damn near criminal that the Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces hasn't gone to a single funeral of a soldier, sailor, or marine," is just another bit of anti-Bush special pleading. Presidents rarely attend the funerals of soldiers. There is nothing even unusual in Bush's conduct on this score, let alone "damn near criminal."

Steve - saying so doesn't make it so. I've heard convincing arguments to the contrary. So show me how they voted and clear up the mystery. Then we can all know for sure whether our troops support the war. There's nothing sinister in wanting to know that. It's not denial at all - in fact, one could say that your impassioned proclamation is denial. All I said is I'd like to know, based on hard data, what they think. Arguing all day is nothing more than pointless spewing, but unfortunately it's all we'll have unless the military vote is counted and the results released to the public.

Becky, Your wondering about the size of military support for Bush is like wondering if large amounts of water flow down the Columbia. Your needing to see military balots is grasping at your hopeless notion that the military is split.

I noticed that on Bush's last visit to his ranch he met with Spain's chief of state. As I recall he's had visits there with folks such as Tony Blair and Vladimir Putin. Do you suppose they just drank beers and watched football all day?

Maybe "vacation days" is not such an accurate characterization, CC.

Tim,

The point I addressed a little earlier, and which no one has refuted (Jack Peek made it earlier) is that presidents don't tend to attend military funerals. You say "political views aside," but if Bush's conduct on this score isn't substantially different than other presidents it's hard to believe this grievance isn't motivated by politics.

Doretta,

And your point is...?

What a bunch of crap Randy I see you chose a backstabing lier who tryed to exploit his phoney record to become commander in chief. Randy answer this. Did j FRAUD kerry ever visit the troops in Iraq or Afghn. Did j FRAUD k ever visit Bethesida or Walter Reid. Your crap about Bush not going to a single funeral is also crap. I happen to know he did because it was one of my sons friends killed in Afghn. You know even Hilliary and many other senators have visited the troops. j FRAUD K was as usual AWOL. Maybe wind surfing is more in line for j FRAUD. This is why the troops in Army times poll and Navy times poll gave Bush a 79% Army times and 74% Navy times poll. Why do the young guys dislike j Fraud k as bad as this Navy Nam Vet does I guess that they know how he lied about us killing babies and cutting off ears. Randy please tell everyone here why j FRAUD k would never sign the 180 to open his records to everyone here who would like to read them. Doesnt it sound sorta funny a guy who is running for President wont let us vets look at his military record. You bash Bush Randy did you notice Bush signed the 180. It was bush signing the 180 that caused the CBS scandal because the type wasnt the same as in the orig doc. Randy there is a southern saying if you lay with dogs you will get fleas. I think you are real close to j FRAUD kerry and now it is you that has fleas.

Mike B Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club

I suppose it is a measure of the success of this blog that we have to put up with the trolls?

The reason I visit this blog and participate is that the disagreements are civil even when strong, the tone is polite, and the participants seem genuinely interested in brainstorming about how to improve politics in Oregon.

If you disagree with Comm. Leonard's post, so be it. But please keep the personal bile to yourself.

And if you find yourself posting three times an hour or twice in the middle of the night, perhaps it's time to pop open a fine bottle of Oregon Pinot Noir, curl up with a good Oregon author, and get yourself to sleep.

Mike B's comments echo mine........my son lost a friend, the coffin was unloaded at Dover AFB, the President and 1st lady arranged a private meeting, away from eyes where the family and the president could weep together.

The left has to have symbolism over substance all the time and gather around some stupid " shrine" in the middle of the street(blocking traffic as happens here)and express their FEEELINGS! CRAP,BS it's private, not a photo/op Randy.

[off-topic material deleted.]

MIKE B..worked against Mr Kerry as a Nam vet ,if you care to confirm this, let me know, 0therwise!

        PS. Mike's work was on a national level, and he doesn't even live here.

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Anthony:

"Presidents rarely attend the funerals of soldiers. There is nothing even unusual in Bush's conduct on this score, let alone "damn near criminal."

Ah, but give him a flight suit, a flight deck with cheering soldiers as a back drop and he's there. (And now that you mentioned criminal, anyone else out there wonder how much US Treasury paid for that glorious photo-op and how much the BC campaign did?)

And Bush is doing all he can for the troops? Try Newsweek this week for the PTSD story and how at least 17% of our troops are returning mentally and emotionally traumatized (someone do the math, what is that 30,000??? none of whom ever show up in the regular casualty counts)-- with domestic abuse calls up 1000% over normal among returning troops and how the Guard only qualify for 2 years of treatment and regulars have it for life and just which branch is bearing the brunt of tours, etc. etc. etc.

Have you ever known anybody with PTSD? Have you seen the collateral damage to families?

And the Bush regime has increased services for returning vets by only $5 million....

And the continuing body and vehicle problems... etc. etc.

Oh yeah -- Bush is great at giving good photo op .. but where it really counts he copuld care less.

Randy,

Thank you for your post. Weeks ago I opted for the "all blue" approach, and I applaud you for reclaiming the full "old glory" spectrum. As for supporting the "troops", it always puzzles me how Americans like myself who oppose the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq are viewed as un-supportive of the individual soldiers who sincerely believe that by fighting in the Iraq invasion they are "protecting" America and fighting for a just cause. The reason we are so angry is because we DO support the troops; each individual soldiers precious life! We are furious that our soldiers are forced to face the horror of killing thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, while leaving those who do survive destitute, starving, and grieving for their loved ones we "accidentally" killed.

Mr. Schopp, your vile comments are unnecessary and unwelcome here. Please take them elsewhere.

Oh, and Mr. Peek, maybe if Mr. Bush had taken the time from his "Armadiller hunting" in Texas and took action on the CIA briefing he received weeks before 9/11 warning that Osama bin Ladin was planning to crash commercial airliners into high profile U.S. targets, the 9/11 attacks could possibly have been prevented.

Larry Landoni says, "Mr. Schopp, your vile comments are unnecessary and unwelcome here. Please take them elsewhere."

Dear Commandant Larry,

Not a chance. I'm here representing many thousands of Oregonians. I've also done the homework on many Oregon issues which you likely have not.

It's high time some of you folks have the discussions Oregon needs.

Calling for me to shut up and go away is weak.

I'll assume your referring to my comments as "vile" means you can't stand criticism or opposition to your thinking.

I on the other hand can easily refer to your specific comment as vile.

"We are furious that our soldiers are forced to face the horror of killing thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, while leaving those who do survive destitute, starving, and grieving for their loved ones we "accidentally" killed."

Allow me to help you out, You are "puzzled" because you are on the wrong side of history. You have no means of absorbing the worthy effort in Iraq, the many successes helping the Iraqi people, and worse you have not a shred of understanding of our armed services, their mission or how so many of them return to the battle field over and over again. Your disrespectful attitude, so prevalent among progressives, oozes out every time you speak about the war, the President and military.

What is really cockamamie is you haven't any realization that the troops actually hear much of your disrespect. They judge for themselves and overwhelmingly disagree with YOU while supporting the President and his leadership. You don't understand what "support" is and won't ask the troops themselves because you already know the answer.
I can only conclude that you are deliberately puzzled. Wanting to cling to your wrong headed thinking versus doing a l little something to understand where you falter.

Get upset all you want. Throw a fit and demand I shut up but that won't change history. History which is passing you by.

Shame on those of you conservatives who can't control your tempers, can't listen to others, and can't accept that people who come at the issues from a different perspective here are anything other than imbeciles. You believe you are putting people in their place, but all you're doing is disgracing your fellow conservatives and verifying for all the world to see that conservatives are closed-minded bastards. It isn't true, but to listen to the group collected here you'd think it was. If the things were said to you that you are spouting in your smug, self-assured way, you'd blow your top. Listening and discussing issues rationally is not a sign of weakness. Failing to control your tongue and act like a gentleman, however, is very weak. A truly intelligent person can find a way to express the truth so that the person reading it becomes aware of his eroneous thinking on his own, without the humiliation of you pointing it out to him. We're all fellow country-men here, not mortal enemies. Its absolutely shameful the way you are acting. Incidentally, I don't care one whit that you will surely attack me for expressing my opinion here because I believe that it is the collapse of civil discourse in politics more than any other thing that is dividing this country. It has to stop. Please stop it.

Well, I must have struck a nerve I suppose. You are here to "enlighten" us, how noble of you. Your "sound bites" and "talking points" sound vaguely familiar...Mr. Schopp, you know nothing about me or my beliefs except for my position on the war in Iraq as I have stated here. Perhaps it bears noting that Iraq did NOT attack the United States, they did not pose a threat to the safety and security of the United States, nor did they attack another sovereign nation. These are FACTS. If any of these conditions were true, I would be behind this war 110%. Another fact, weak intelligence led to a horrible mistake that has claimed the lives of thousands of innocent lives, and when we found there were NO WMD in Iraq the justification for the invasion evaporated. Rather than admit any mistake had been made, the Bush Administration decided to "re-spin" to say that we are now there to "free" the Iraqi people. How sweet.

Respect? That is earned, and your hollow patriotic rhetoric and sounds bites make you even less credible than before. I rest my case on this issue. Chew on it, furiously type your response in caps, and I'll laugh while I read it.

Oh brother! Thanks for the elementary rundown on WMD's and Iraq. Nothing to chew on though. The respect I was clearly talking about was your lack of respect for our troops. You are right. Respect has to be earned. The only case you made is you fail to recognize that our troops have earned it. This isn't about patriotic rhetoric. You condemn our effort in Iraq while our troops and those who support them are all for the effort. What "sound bites" and what "caps". What sound bite? Please quote one sound bite I wrote. The go back and read your post. And why would you laugh. Since there isn't anything funny, isn't that just a little peculiar? I typed this quite calmly friend. Have a nice laugh.

Well, I lied. I will provide you with one of your soundbites. "you are on the wrong side of history". The troops are American citizens and can choose to support the war or not. If "respecting" the troops means that I must support the unjust war they are fighting, than I guess I do not respect them. I won't lose any sleep over it, and I have no blood on my hands.

Becky, sometime you reach the end, the end for me was weeks ago when Leonard was just a candidate.

Anybody that knows me, knows well that I advocate for oversite of very dangerous, high risk, grouphomes. [off-topic material deleted.]

[off-topic material deleted.]

Some think im Jack-------No jack ask me as a Vietnam Vet who worked nation wide in the fight against j FRAUD kerry. I come from a strong Mil. family and have a son and brother in Iraq now. Did you ever think if the Dem had picked someone other than j Fraud kerry there would have been a lot more states Blue. I am a buisness owner who took off for 6 months to campain against kerry. I might not have me out in the states raising money and doing rally and seting up websites. What if just for conversation you had picked Bob Kerrey (D) ever think I might have worked for him he is a Nam vet we like. Guys like me it was anyone but kerry. I despised kerry so much that I put the two buisness I own on hold with a partner and let him (Granada Vet) run the company until I helped to get j FRAUD kerry defeated. Now you want to know where I campained the hardest try OHIO FLORIDA GEORGIA ALABAMA SOUTH CAROLINA PENN. I live in North Florida and my county went 69% against kerry and it is a 2 to 1 Dem county. Most of the county in north Florida went so strong for Bush that with them being Dem county that a lot of people thought it was fraud. this was acomplished with Nam vets doing anti Kerry displays everyweekend at fairs and Flea markets. We stood in shoping center's and passed out j FRAUD lit. we made thousands of anti kerry bumper stickers. Vietnam vets against John kerry. Vets against John kerry. Not Fonda kerry.Kerry lied good men died. along with this we were able to raise enough money to put up 96 billboards against kerry. We ran radio adds and I was on radio talk shows. Ever think if the Dem party had picked someone elese this old Nam vet would have been fishing and hunting and getting in politics. Bush could have been beat but the dem party and people like Micheal moore turned off people and we used kerry and Micheal Moore to get votes taken away from j FRAUD kerry. go to our website www.operationstreetcorner.com see how we organised Vets and people against kerry in every state including oregon. Go to Grants Pass and look at our vets there. This isnt about Bush it was about your poor choice in kerry. Kerry caused me to change from a southern dixie crat Dem to the Repub Party. Im also like Zell.

Mike B

Mike and Jack - My comments had nothing to do with your credentials or political activities. They had only to do with your lack of control in discussing issues on this board.

Tim,

On Doretta’s “self-evident point” and my “puzzling” response: You should read my post as showing my own puzzlement at what Doretta was trying to demonstrate. How does the fact that President Clinton attended a single military funeral refute the point that presidents generally don’t attend them, and that Bush’s behavior is in no way unusual, let alone egregious in the way Kari suggested?

I accept that you genuinely do believe that presidents should attend some military funerals, but you’ll have to forgive me for wondering whether this concern would have occurred to you if the current president were a Democrat. Whatever the case, if you don’t doubt the new information now that Bush’s behavior is actually normal, I would hope that would consider that there might be defensible or even admirable reasons for the policy.

Other readers,

My posts elsewhere demonstrate that I’m as concerned as the prof about maintaining a high standard of debate. I recognize that this is a “blue” sandbox, and as such I think “red” posters should exercise a certain amount of restraint. But the responsibility to maintain a civil tone applies to people on both sides of the divide, and those on the blue side need to show a bit more self-awareness about their own lack of civility.

Steve Schopp gets ridiculed for allegedly claiming to speak for thousands of Oregonians. He said “represented,” which can just as easily be construed as meaning he is merely an example of such people, as he doubtless is. But CC captiously chooses the more damaging construction. Meanwhile Larry Landoni presumes to speak for all BlueOregon in saying Schopp is “unwelcome here,” but that's OK.

I agree with much of what Becky had to say on this subject, and perhaps she’s policing her own ranks. But there’s plenty of shame to go around. To name but one example, “Randy” (not Randy Leonard, as far as I know) in his last post to me, having lost the argument, changes the subject and embarks on a hostile rant. Is that a good example of civil discourse?

[off-topic material deleted.]

Jack,

I'll need to become a U.S. citizen first.

Jeez, was that three posts in an hour? It's a little early in the day, I guess I'd better open a bottle of Oregon pinot noir! (A good choice, in my opinion)

Uh, back to the original post people......Thank you Randy, for an incredible article. Your thoughts regarding red, white and blue, are familiar to me, and something I've thought a lot about. "Hijacking" of many things, including Christianity, the American flag, the term "family values", and misconstruing them to a place so far away from where they initially were based upon, has been a tough one for me to grapple with.

Does it mean we don't love our country or the troops if we disagree with the war? Does it mean we're only Bush supporters if we raise a flag? If we go to church does that mean we believe gays aren't worthy of basic human rights that hetero couples enjoy? These separations are indicative of a country becoming further and further divided, where we have to question common icons and institutions instead of finding common ground and tolerance for our differences and acceptance for those who may different from ourselves, and that's okay. Thank you for taking back the red white and blue. I was about to say that you're brave for that, but how sad does that sound?!?

Dear "Tualatin resident"

First, my name is Schopp not Schoop.

Steve Schopp, and you or anyone else can call me up for cordial visit anytime. To debate any issue.

My cell phone number is 503-781-5430

Second, your tripe about embarrassing myself and Tualatin is as absurd as your anonymity and gossipy methods.

What does Tualatin have to do with any of this discussion?

I am certainly not preoccupied here but how is it that I have ever "harassed the good citizens of Tualatin".

Last time you claimed I had "harassed the school district", then gave as an example my comments on CIM/CAM at a school board meeting. And not in Tualatin but in Sherwood where my daughter attended all K-12 grades.

Now you add, "He is such an arrogant, sexist ass that he actually has referred to me as a male in prior postings. He can't imagine that a woman could actually challenge him."

You must be nuts. How the heck could I know what sex you are? You are anonymous. Further I don't care. As for "challenging me" You haven't challenged me on anything. Just tossed out ridiculous claims that are preposterous.

Such as, "all of his neighbors are reading his mean spirited postings and chuckling when we see him out."

Ya right.
And you "apologies for my behavior"

Yep you're nuts.

Many of my neighbors voted for me against the sitting incumbent. I was outspent by 4 to 1. In Washington County the vote margin was a few hundred votes.

Yet you write, "handily defeated for a Metro seat last year by our progressive citizenry in our area"

No wonder you are anonymous.

I notice a few of the folks here continually get caught up in the mundane while ignoring the important issues.

The mundane such as my stating I represent thousands or Oregonians. Obviously I meant that figuratively. The collective tizzy fit over the use of that sure is something.

I would much prefer to discuss the illegitimacy of public policies or projects such as the planned Commuter Rail and the desperate need for additional road capacity.

I can imagine the anonymous Tualatin resident would view my criticism of commuter rail as harassment.

Just as she did with my criticism of CIM/CAM.

CIM/CAM which has proven to be the biggest fraud and waste in the history of Oregon K-12 education.

There I go with my harassment again. Boy I hope my neighbors don't find out.

Just to clairify, the person that posts as "Randy" lists his email address as [email protected].

That is not me. He has been posting on various Blogs for some time.

[off-topic material deleted.]

Dear Tim,

So LBJ should have gone to 58,000 funerals? Is that what your are saying?

And Bush needs too attend the 1,200 we have now?

Your comments will be welcomed.

Regardless of whether or not Ted went bowling on the day of one of the funerals, he's still gone to more funerals than Bush. Not hard to beat zero.

Dear CC.

  The right thing too do for the state commander of the guard, now stay with me, it's not Randy Leonard, its not Tom Potter, IT'S THE "kman"...would be with his troops when they were activated, he should have been there. But, DAMN! isn't that just like you guys to go for the negetive and not the positive from a support angle. The touchy feely stuff, and CC, he wasn't there.PERIOD!

President Bush should not go to funerals http://www.oreilly-fire.com/documents/our_honor_our_grief.htm

My son Jack who is going back to Iraq again in Jan. sent me this:

[copyrighted material deleted.]

My comment..SEE ABOVE~!

Anthony,

I guess I somehow misunderstood the purpose and scope of BlueOregon. The following appears on the front page of this website:

What is BlueOregon? BlueOregon is a place for progressive Oregonians to gather 'round the water cooler and share news, commentary, and gossip.

Although Mr. Schopp is certainly not a progressive, in my defense I did not tell him that his posts were unwelcome, I told him that his "vile" posts were unwelcome, and to take "them" elsewhere. If his posts were civil and courteous I would not have a problem with them. Those I have read simply are not. I am not sure if he is seriously interested in hearing progressive discussion of the issues, or simply wishes to disrupt these discussions by being a constant irritant. I would bet money it's the latter. Anyway, to those of you who take the time to write thoughtful and original posts, Thank you.

Dear Randy Leonard,

I enjoyed your story and empathize with your feelings regarding the "flying" or "hanging" of the colors.

Take heart! The colors your back deck is currently sporting have nothing to do with Old Glory. In fact the colors on the American Flag have no significance at all.

The Continental Congress left no record to show why it chose the colors. However, in 1782, the Congress of the Confederation chose these same colors for the Great Seal of the United States and listed their meaning as follows: white to mean purity and innocence, red for valor and hardiness, and blue for vigilance, perseverance, and justice. According to legend, George Washington interpreted the elements of the flag this way: the stars were taken from the sky, the red from the British colors, and the white stripes signified the secession from the home country.

Purity, innocense, valor, hardiness, vigilance, perseverance & justice? Not bad at all! Maybe somebody should clue G.W. in.

Curiously enough, according to the United States Flag Code: "The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard."

I wonder if lapels count?

Also, from the United States Flag Code: "The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top."

Well, that's a new one to me. I guess that means that we are violating the U.S. Flag Code by draping coffins to begin with. Also, remember all the flags G.W. had behind him on the 1st go-round podium? Looked like overkill DECORATION to me.

I have decided, out of protest for this unjust war and out of respect for our loyal soldiers and Iraqi Citizenry, to refrain from flying the U.S. flag until this "mission" is truly accomplished....meaning every American Soldier is home. You might consider flying the flag upside down, as is permitted by the U.S. Flag Code: "The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is FLOWN UPSIDE DOWN only as a distress signal."

I'd certainly say we are in distress.......but, you will probably be castigated as unpatriotic by the up-tightie, un-righties.

Peace, J.M.

"libber Larry/ progressive said":

I told him that his "vile" posts were unwelcome, and to take "them" elsewhere. If his posts were civil and courteous I would not have a problem with them.

Larry, yours and others...REDNECK, TRAILER TRASH, BIBLE THUMPER, HITLER BUSH. MORON PRESIDENT, CHIMP PRESIDENT ETC. ETC ETC. Look, you better get it, your arrogant elitism, your nose in the air crap, your rude assine comments from pretty much all of you caused a backlash that you have not,nor will you recover from loss at the polls.

Beside a personal issue I have and will settle with the good commissionor over his lack of duty to this city, I offered an olive branch to him, (didn't take it, his mistake) I offer one too you all.

Your going to lose in a much bigger way, if the crap I mentioned above doesn't stop.

You all started a backlash, you appear not to get it, you refuse the words of advice, so, bottomline, if the message here I leave tonight is not heeded, come Nov. 2 08, DO NOT SAY I DIDNT TELL YOU SO!

"Beside a personal issue I have and will settle with the good commissionor over his lack of duty to this city..."

Dear Will, Your threat, is noted.

   But, since you wouldn't know a real threat if it ran over you, perhaps you just need to  "chill!"


  If the "coward" would fight if you thought the "threat" was physical in nature, we could sell tickets and the loser hands the money over to his respective political party. I'd go for that!

 But I intend to work against him come re-election time, that is a threat.

  If he does as he told me he would do, and makes the issue I have talked about a well handled problem,
  I will do anything, anytime, anywhere to see he becomes mayor. How is that for a threat?

  Now run along and play.

Dear Tim. THANK YOU, for a fair response!

   The people I know, who are in the service respect this man.PERIOD!

   Why should the family need undo stress of a presidential vist? The respect Bush has shown in the most private, face to face manner is above all Photo/ops possible.

  The personal words, not for publication are worth more then a canned speech.

   If I were in those awful shoes, I sure wouldn't want a cam or mike shoved in my face, nor do I want my family's tears on view at 6 pm newstime.

   Is there away, we can stop all this hate?

Dear Kari, I will bet there is a new policy coming.

Jack - one way we can stop the hate is to continue responding to posts like we have to each other here. I can guarantee we agree on very few things, but while our differences matter, our dialogue is equally important. A number of the posts on this board do not promote good honest debate. I would like to see that change, and I hope you join me in that.

You an I have a deal!

The posts I have made have been in porportion to the response. I feel you get it, others don't.

I say again, drop the name calling, IE. REDNECK, CHIMP PRESIDENT, TRAILER TRASH.

Kill your desire to correct my spelling etc.

I don't care if you have A Doctorate in english "lit", nor do I care about anything else you may say if it's not how to provide for the common good of us all. PERIOD!

I don't see race,diversity or any issue as important as security for each of us and our kids.

None of this matters if we can't "all" be around to enjoy it.

Tim, you have reached out to listen, I promise to do the same, that was all I was looking for to begin with.

Right on Randy! War Bad, Dead Soldiers Bad. Red White & Blue Good.

It's like the Pastor at Church says, It's time we progressive Christians reclaim the Christian Faith from the conservative Christian fundamentalists.

We can't let them ruin our good name, our good deeds, our faith or our communities! Not in the name of Fear & Hate. Not in my country or my church.