Jeez! What a huge hunk of bureaucrat speak.

BTW, the 88 percent of Americans having home Internet access figure is inaccurate. It comes from a survey of selected users of certain ISPs. (I blogged this, but don't have the URL at hand.) Anyone looking at it should be skeptical, though. Previous studies, including Pew's, have said about 43 percent of Americans did not have home access as recently as 2003. A more reliable figure for current home use is about 69 percent, as Chuck said above. I've also seen 63 percent. Some more information:

1) Non-users either can't afford access (majority) or choose not to have home access to the Internet (minority). In earlier studies, dropouts from the Internet were less than 10 percent of non-users.

2) The proportion of users increases if one adds out of the home locations, such as work, school, public libraries. But, such access is only available doing day hours, most of the time. So, when a low-income child needs to do his homework for example, he doesn't have access.

3) There is a correlation between income and home Internet access. It is three-tiered. Those who can afford it tend to have T1, cable or DSL. The next group has dial-up. The remainder don't have home Internet access. National studies now say about half of subscribers have high speed Internet. The cutting edge has moved to WiFi and the wired home.

4) I have only seen one program that actually provided much help to low-income people needing computers or Internet access. It was part of a legal settlement and provided free laptops to people who went through a lengthy paperwork process. Free Geek relies on the prejudiced assumption that the poor are lazy. They must put in hours of work for Free Geek before being given an old computer using -- believe it or not -- Linux. Not exactly something that can be carried over to the mainstream. Having grown up poor, I suspect most members of its potential audience know they are being insulted and pass on that bit of patronization. I am not familiar with One Economy, but suspect it might be smoke and mirrors, too.

5) Most of the "award winning" online services being touted do the same thing phone referral services do. And, they are less available to low-income people because of the target demographic's lower access to the Internet. They are not providing anything new, just replacing what is already available.

The low-income and minorities get the short end of the stick in most things. That is also true of the Internet access and unlikely to change.

I would like to see some proof of the presently anecdotal claims by One Economy. In its online literature, I saw allegations of 100 to 500 families it supposedly helped get Internet access, by wiring the complexes they live in. I did not see any concrete claim of helping people acquire computers at all. There is a reference to Gateway providing low-income people in one housing development entry level computers at a slight discount from their typical $400 or so. But, who knows how Gateway might have recouped the difference? It is not even clear whether the computers were new or refurbished. Ditto for AT & T Broadband. What is it getting in return? Maybe it will charge higher than the norm for access after the six-month low-cost introduction. Furthermore, why are people supposedly concerned about costs promoting cable, which is more expensive than DSL? A news and information search brings up press releases by One Economy praising itself, but not much in the way of news or information from objective sources. What I see is a company creating an <u>impression</u> that is doing great things about the Digital Divide, but not much to back it up.

I also looked at the 'Ghetto on the Web' One Economy promotes, called Beehive. It funnels people away from having a full Internet experience to a portal that is suited to some bureaucrat's notion of what is good for the poor and/or minority. Beehive also touts certain businesses, though it is not clear whether One Economy is paid for doing so. For example, Allstate Insurance is promoted. Is that because it pays One Economy to promote it to users, though it may not offer them the best deals on insurance?

I am also curious about the tax situation. Often, a non-profit will be set up by a corporations to reduce taxes on their very much for profit business. The non-profit arm really doesn't do much else. What other businesses is One Economy related to?

Other people, including Doretta, are definitely entitled to their opinions of organizations such as Free Geek. Having come from the very backgrounds such groups supposedly help, I've learned to be very skeptical of them. Claims of any kind of meaningful assistance to the poor are often false, or feel good sops for the people making them. I would cite Free Geek as an example. Its members get a kick out of using Linux. But, people who genuinely gave a hoot would not impose such an arcane operating system on novices. I've had several people I directed to the program before I learned not to come back and say they found the Free Geek computers worthless. I agree that their time would have been better spent working a few extra hours to buy a newer computer and software they could use to improve their skills. I also think that truly helpful programs are income-based. The built-in notion that the poor don't have their own work to do, including jobs and child-rearing, is very telling.

I happened across someone who is also raising an eyebrow about One Economy at Daily Wireless. He is wondering about whether this supposedly charitable organization is really doing anything charitable or just another profit-oriented business. Read "Cashing in on the Digital Divide" here. Excerpt:

One-Economy collaborates with a portal called BeeHive which wants users to bank with them and use their portal services. But, really, how is it going to lower costs? I think it's just a racket.

I encourage people to read what that person has to say. I found it more informative than the entry we are commenting on.

I say to support the increase of funding for community libraries to help bridge the digitial and information divide in low-income areas, as well for those smaller cities(greater than 1000 residents) around the state. As well, going to the libraries would be a good family day outing and that is a good thing.

I applaud the effort, but please dont make people beleive that having a computer is required to live yet it today's society. It purely a luxury item, and hardly an entitlement. As for "low-income" kids having access...they go to public school right? I have yet to see a public school that doesnt have at least one room full of computers they can get access to. Hell, my son's middle school has THREE rooms of computers. And before anyone mentions unequal school funding, lets all remember the state of Oregon requires equal funding. I have seen complete computers for sale over the years locally by private folks for as low as $50 that are quite operational. And new ones made with current technology as low as $400.

Aaron and Jon, I'm leaning in your direction. Better that people use public computers or buy used ones on their own than get sucked into schemes that may actually cost them money they can hardly afford.

After looking at One Economy's portal, Beehive, more, I've more skeptical than before. If, say, a low-income mother is persuaded to make various purchases from business promoted on that site, she will increase her debts. Since users are funneled to Beehive, there is no incentive to price compare. The person buying into the promoted ISP, insurance company or bank would be better served by the full Internet, where information on competitors is available.

BTW, it appears I was right about the cable modem service. Called AT & T and asked them. After a low introductory rate, the price balloons to market or higher in three to six months. A great deal for AT & T, but not necessarily for the consumers. $60 per month is not peanuts for a low-income family.

I was not going to rip on the post—but I decided to do.

Robert, You groups ideology and goals are a waste of time and resources, I will give you two reasons:

1. Hunger—the need to remove the slight to chronic hungry epidemic from the low-income families, with or without children, in school; supersedes the desire for internet connectivity and a computer. If someone is malnourished, these individuals, and their children; are not going to be thinking that the internet or a computer is going to feed them.
2. Living wage jobs—the need to make ends meet yet again supersedes the desire for internet connectivity and a computer. If someone is scraping by to meet the monthly needs; they should not be wasting $10/month for dialup(juno/netzero) or upwards of what Mac Diva stated in the previous post is at least 3 times that much for Cable/DSL.

Nevertheless, you say, “Children can learn with the internet.” I say, “Can you truly learn when you only have one good meal a day, maybe; when you are growing up.” Then, you say, “Individuals can take classes or read, from the internet; to improve the situation of low paying wage.” I say, “Yes, I know this; but there are work training programs for them thru various government agencies and non-profits, that cost from nothing to a slight fee; that can provide a greater chance of them getting better paying jobs.”

Point of Fact:

It isn't AT&T. Its Comcast. AT&T sold their broadband operation to Comcast about 2 years ago.

Freegeek does a good service, Diva. The fact that your referrals didn't wish to take to the time to learn the OS can't be helped by freegeek. If they had taken the time, they would have found Linux to be quite rewarding, useful and utilitarian. But we, as society, cannot MAKE them take that time.

I don't see Bill Gates offering his OS free to anyone, much less any other manufacturers out there offering to let you build your own computer, show you how to do it, and then let you take it home after you have traded some time for the computer.

I am noticing a disturbing trend on this board. We need to remember that the poor are not as reflected in this thread. In other words: Stop treating the poor as dumb and lazy. The majority are neither.

This entry would really be at home on a site like Always On. The pro-business rhetoric and outlook there would result in little scrutiny. No one would question the assumptions or do follow-up research.

I do have something positive to say about One Economy. It does not appear to be an Altria Group organization. Quite a few charitable organizations that claim to help the poor and/or minorities are public relations vehicles funded by Altria. Altria is the smiling face of Phillip Morris, Inc. and Kraft. We are familiar with its other, frowning face, cigarettes and junk food. For all its charitable claims, Altria does more harm than good.

JJ Ark, my referrals are everyday people. Everyday people use Windows or Macintosh OSes*. Hobbyists, people who like arcania, use Linux. (0.3 percent of the U.S. market.) To try to impose one's rarified taste on people one is supposedly providing a service to is selfish in my opinion. The service should be driven by what its users want and need, not the arcane interests of the people in charge. (What's next? Demanding participants vote for Nader because some of the Free Geek leaders did?) Furthermore, some of the people I talked to did their time on the Free Geek plantation. They then discovered that Linux on an old computer was not of much use in real world terms.

*Linux has carved out a niche in server use, but we are talking about individuals in this context.

Diva:

You have got to be kidding me.

First: I used to own internet cafes that were run off Linux. Xwindows is more robust than Mac OS, far easier to use than Windows, and can run on machines that are unsuitable for Bill's Bloatware. I had exactly one complaint in 3 years of cafe use about the Linux computers, and that was from a script kiddee that found it difficult to hack into. However, the windows boxes were down frequently, and had many, many problems.

Linux does, indeed have a business application, and everything the average user wants to do online can be done as easily in Linux Xwindows. Ok...maybe you can't use your digital camera as easily. Or your weirdo fancy shmancy printer that does negatives on rheostatic paper. But if you can buy a digital camera, you are probably not trading time for a computer at freegeek*.

Secondly...no one imposed anything on anyone. Period. End of story. If they didn't want to participate in Free Geek or didn't like the OS offered, they didn't have to set foot in the door. The service they offer is what they offer, not what you think they should offer. You don't like it, then take your business elsewhere, or schedule a meeting with the board of FreeGeek and air your concerns. The last time I checked it was 14 hours of volunteering to get a usuable, internet capable computer at no charge. I am sorry, but your complaining about the product offered by a group providing a public service in exchange for a relatively small amount of volunteer hours would be laughable if it wasn't so dang sad.

Thirdly, I have to object to your use of the term "Plantation". The occupants of plantations weren't there by choice. The person who doesn't want a linux computer from freegeek can just not show up. No whippings or beatings, no consequences.

And finally: Nader? snort. whatever. Equating a volunteer effort from a nonprofit with coerced voting had never occurred to me. Wonder why that is?

*actually, I have no clue how to run a digital camera off linux. It might be easy. Ask around...someone is bound to know. Sorry for the generalization.

No, you must be kidding. I repeat 0.3 percent of the market, and that is mainly Linux servers. If one were serious about helping novice computers users one would use the Windows OS. Older software to save money, perhaps. But, it makes sense to expose people to what they will encounter in the real world, not in a Linux geek's fantasy world. That is why we teach in English instead of Armenian, despite the appeal of Armenian to maybe 0.3 percent of the population.

I will anticipate your upcoming Bill Gates is the devil and you're his handy woman rant. Don't waste your time. I use a Macintosh. Yes. I use a Macintosh and would provide novices with Wintel hardware and software. That is because the process should be about them, not me.

I got to tell ya, you got it all wrong about Linux Mac Diva. I would assume by your name that you use a Mac? Which is actually UNIX under the hood of OSX. It's just made all pretty for people who don’t know what real computing is all about. It's about learning how to use tools to get a task done. Unix is the big brother of Linux. Take off your fancy "desktop" which is not the "os" and they look exactly the same. If Linux is so arcane why is the rest of the world out side of the US sucking it down like it was crack?

Check out the SCO case. It’s bullshit put in the way of "free software” to keep the Microshaft top. Bill gave them money to go after free software.

Hate to bust your balls, but you left yourself wide open.

“MS free since 2000”

Hey...if you are buying, I am sure FreeGeek is providing.

The last time I looked, Win OS was around 100$. I am sure you could get the nonprofit price of 70$. Go for it. By the way, that would be the price per EACH.

This isn't about an anti microsoft agenda. This is about primarily about cost. windows is bloody expensive. so is macOS to be fair. Linux is Free. Thus the name Free Geek.

Additionally: The level of hardware necessary to run the "common" installs of windows is far higher than 14 weeks can get you in trade. Anywhere. Same for OSX. You can't just slap it on any old 486 (or quadra) and expect it to run. You can do that with Linux.

Of course, FreeGeek runs off donated parts, so you might want to get some folks to toss out their new computers, otherwise they gots what they gots, and you won't be running XP off of it. Can't build a cadilac out of yugo parts. What you can do is build a really reliable yugo with a few parts from the caddi.

And another peeve of mine: People don't actually use "computers" at work. They just don't. They use applications. At my company, we can't get in the guts of our boxes. They would crucify us. So I use* the progs they provide, and frankly, if you haven't seen the programs that come in xwindows, you can't understand that they are quite similar.

Oh, and I don't hate Bill Gates, and I too, use Mac. I just don't see Billy offering up the poor of the world a computer in exhange for 14 hours of work--which he could easily do.

*Unless they are in IT, in which case FreeGeek is perfect: rebuilding wintel hardware. Linux don't run on boxes of peanut butter-it runs on wintel boxes.

Good try, Robert. But, you aren't the only JD around here. (Yes, I researched that, too.)

Though my intention is not to treat One Economy as if it is the worst possible thing that can happen in the area of 'charity' that isn't, I will amplify the points that reveal Robert's key argument -- that One Economy helps the low-income -- is smoke and mirrors.

1) The service provided -- cable modems -- is above market in cost. (Indeed, cost could be cut by as much as a third if dial-up were used.)

2) There is no competition among ISPs, assuring continuing high costs.

3) After the initial three to six months rebate One Economy negotiates with AT & T/Comcast, the costs to these low-income citizens is market or higher. What One Economy does is deliver a semi-captive audience to its chosen ISP. (As we all know, quitting an ISP in less than a year brings substantial penalties or a bad credit report. So, these low-income residents are coerced out of at least $300 dollars after the discount ends. It could be higher if they have been persuaded to add other cable features.)

4) Beehive does promote selected businesses, either for goodwill or money. For example, since Allstate is the only insurance company mentioned, the user has no comparison information. There is likely a contract forbidding State Farm or American Family, etc., from also being referenced on the site. In addition, users are funneled to Beehive, preventing these novices from becoming aware of the much more thorough information available on the regular Internet. (Think AOL in the 1990s, but with much less material.)

To summarize, it may be a good thing to wire low-income housing for Internet access. But, One Economy is a business doing so to make a profit, not a charity. (I am going to assume that most readers know 'non-profit' corporations can be quite profitable.)

I do appreciate Robert having posted this entry. I may blog about One Economy to inform consumers about the pitfalls.

Point One- MacDiva: You know nothing about computer operating systems. Linux is in no way arcane. Most every server IBM sells to big and small corporations all over the world are run on Linux. Most every tiny internet cafe on every single block corner in England, China, and Poland are run on Linux (there are very very many- knowledge from experience.)From your name I assume you appreciate Macintosh computers. You obviously are not the diva that you proffer yourself to be, because OS X is based on a Unix kernal, which is the most stable kernal out there- and Linux is related heavily to Unix(add SCO discussion here.) I don't say this often but you really set yourself up for this with your attitude....you are a dumba$$.

Point Two- Chuck Sheketoff: DSL technology no longer requires you to pay for a phone line. You do however have to be within a certain proximity of your telephone company's Central Office or switching station. I know the Mt Hood area (Welches) just got one installed last year. I would suggest checking with Speakeasy- they are high in quality of product/knowledgability/ and customer interaction. www.speakeasy.net Good luck!

I like this post, if for no other reason than I thought it was readable. 'People judge you by the words you use.' And you know why? Because there's a connection (in brain tissue) between words, expression, understanding, and behavior. I don't know from One Economy; my take on the text is it's angling for some State funding grant. That's a fair thing to do, legit, maybe even noble. And the grants got to be granted to someone. My judgment of One.Econ, first impression, is that their vice-president clearly expressed his thinking and purpose in societal organizing, and what he expressed I agree with, and we (Oregon taxpayers) can somewhat confidently rely that an (public) investment in One.Econ would go to its purpose and not to profiteering.

As to whether or not we agree with its purpose -- social services linked in web facilities: that's another matter. But if we agree, One.Econ most probably would deliver to it, is my hunch.

I went to Free Geek, oh, like over a year ago. GREAT place! I was looking to see if I could help them, maybe volunteer to teach classes. Found out they have a steady supply of instructors because part of getting a free computer there is that you are obliged to take a class to learn how to use it, and then after you learn you have to, further, turn around and teach that class (or what you learned) to the next newbies. Teaching a subject is the best way to learn it.

What hasn't been said in this thread is that Free Geek has a very important presence as a recycling drop-point for computer hardware. They keep circuit boards and boxes out of the landfill. The biggest problem, and most frequent 'customer,' (natch), is monitors. The picture tube (CRT -- sorry, can't help myself) type monitor is coated inside the glass with phosphorous compounds and some gnarly (carcinogenic) other ingredients that should be kept out of the 'crusher' flow of disposal. Free Geek (2003) was palletting and shrink-wrapping about 24-stacked-monitor cubes, and trucking the cubes to Seattle for a freighter to Asia somewhere. It was a very tenuous, singular, disposal channel -- the trucks and freighter and Asia could any one of them cancel at any time, (nonprofit, see?), and all the abundant 'labor' at Free.G was most reluctant to stack-and-wrap pallets, (because it's, well, so laborious), so monitors are a big problem. And migration to flat panel (non-CRT) displays means the volume of tossed-away old monitors is increasing. But, hey, Free Geek -- it is on the ground in a hi-tech world. Get your baptism on.

(Thinking if I break this into bits of comment it won't seem so long.)

The world is changing so fast. Biggest influence of all is the price of oil, and in that, the inexorable decrease in supply. We are using up the planet's one-time gift. One thing this means is that gas could cost ten dollars a gallon by maybe as soon as the end of Dubya's second term. The point is: Now (then) how many people can commute to work? (Steve Schopp: Then how does MAX look, in the real future economy?)

Most people I hear talk on the (future oil) topic more or less recognize that oil runs out, but it remains abstracted from their real life, off in some vague future time. Knowledgeable consensus is that the impact has already started and is growing -- barrel-of-oil price doubled in Dubya's first term. (The End of Oil?, by Mark Williams, M.I.T.'s TechnologyReview.com If the actions - rather than the words - of the oil business's major players provide the best gauge of how they see the future, then ponder the following. Crude oil prices have doubled since 2001, but oil companies have increased their budgets for exploring new oil fields by only a small fraction. Likewise, U.S. refineries are working close to capacity, yet no new refinery has been constructed since 1976. And oil tankers are fully booked, but outdated ships are being decommissioned faster than new ones are being built. If those clues weren't enough, here's a news item that came out of Saudi Arabia on March 6, 2003. Though it went largely unremarked, ...)

It means talk about Social Security in 2018 or 2042 is probably all off base. It means a lot of people's plans for the future -- 'I'm gonna be a grandparent and retire' -- are way off base. Ain't gonna be that way, the way things are headed now.

Poor people and disadvantaged circumstances are going to be with us in the future, too, and if they have internet empowerment they are more likely, I think, to be able to earn wages, (than they are today when it takes a car to have a job, almost).

Computers. The internet. The future. My favorite line so far in this thread is "It's about learning how to use tools," (rmannon666). The computer that Free Geek offers for free is almost irrelevant to what they do. They teach people how to computer, (and feed them for life). Think bicycle analogy. You can go and get a free bicycle. So what? Or you can go and get a free bicycle and be shown how to oil it and change brake pads AND people help you learn how to ride it. Way after the free bike is out of your life you will still know how to ride a bike. That's so what.

People are certainly free to buy the hype if they want to. But, let's not forget the facts:

1) One Economy is a profit generating corporation that delivers a captive audience to an expensive cable modem ISP. Once there, they are funneled to a portal that tries to sell them more services without adequate disclosure.

2) One Economy and its partners are not efficient agents for Internet services to a low-income clientele. Dial-up accounts would cost the residents about $20.00 per month. Instead, they are paying $60 per month or more for cable modem service. (I made an error above, meaning to say that the cost could be reduced to a third, not by a third.)

In regard to Linux,, one does not need to be a programmer to understand that it is not the best OS for novices. As I said before, Linux has 0.3 percent of the U.S. market, most of it in servers. People need an OS and software that they can use to enhance education and work skills and opportunities. That would be Windows.

Pdinxs, your insult to my intelligence notwithstanding, it is you who fail to grasp what the issues in regard to One Economy and Free Geek are. Suffice it to say they have nothing to do with what OS servers in Rangoon or the Hebrides are running on.

Doretta, the issue isn't whether people got computers. (Actually, they are from Dell.) The issue is whether the computers were really discounted. Considering what I learned about the reltionship between One Economy and the ISP, I doubt it.

I've hooked up a lot of people with computers. I've seen it all. I still get calls ... I got a call today: 'Would I come over and show them their email.' People just are not computer functional, I don't care what percent of homes have them.

In the bizness computer malfunction is C.E. -- Cockpit Error. The driver's the problem, not the car. Except, see, the 'computer equals car' analogy is false, essentially. 'Using a computer equals playing a musical instrument' is more like it. Maybe computer malfunction should be S.N. -- Sour Note.

So for years I have been dragging people to the internet and hooking them up. Last summer, I went to visit my longtime homies. The one bought his first computer from me twenty-five years ago, (to keep his farm chart of accouts and supporting schedules). So I asked him (in June) if he got my email (sent in April). "Oh," he says, "I don't actually use the computer hardly."

A second one runs a franchise hardware store and the corporate HQ had set them all up with in-store networks for point-of-sale and inventory tracking. Out in farm country, this is uptown. So I see it's a kludgy keyed internet homepage application laid on top of Windows, (like Diebold et al.'s ridiculous elec.voting machines), so I says to my friend, (you know, we've known each other since childhood classmates), and he's as red-stater as it gets, "Hey, can I use your computer a second to show you something on the internet," (my nine eleven op (neo-) con job bubble popper), and he says "Oh, I don't know if it is on the internet ... Is that legal?" Well, it was online and legal, and I showed him, and he really didn't want to know that he was able to know all the things he could discover in life (ebay?) but for admitting that he didn't, and wasn't going to, apply himself or make an effort. Easier just to blame the people who design the world, 'they,' for making it all too complicated.

In these two scenes, (and a few dozen more since, which reinforced it), I saw a new position. That gave me two a total two positions. By standing on both of them I was able to reach and grasp a third position.

In the first place I had thought to bring the internet to people without it, so they could see "all the information in the history of the humankind." In the second place, I realized that what also needed to be done was to bring people without internet to the internet. Which I thought of as speaking for them, relaying their communication to the internet (that's us, you and me, here now), because they are not here to speak for themselves. Give them voice. That was a big part of me starting channelling 'Tenskwatawa' on this 'Oregon' blog; I am trying to speak for the first peoples of Oregon, who are. Oregon. and are not represented, and the 'Oregon' cannot be whole without them. (Us.)

So, the people have to see the internet, AND, the internet has to see the people. Third idea, then, (sorta Q.E.D.-obvious), is that the medium is two-way.

For every comment I read on blogs now, where someone says something about 'getting the word out,' or 'telling everybody what's going on,' I think that's the half of it, how are we doing at 'getting the word in' (to the internet), or how far are we (internet) 'listening' for what's going on (input). With my third 'eye' now, I look apart from the content of the messages to check on the bi-directionality of the traffic. (When somebody grabs the microphone and says 'is this thing on?' there needs to be somebody in the back shout out in a slur 'play Mishty for me,' or you can figure the whole get-up is not working.)

So this post is very heartening for me. Here comes somebody from One Economy, whatever that is, saying 'this is the voice of the poor and indigent representing on the internet, to Blue Oregon. Come in Blue Oregon.'

Very early on, in the first days of this blog, there was a comment by somebody (I haven't seen since) that just stabbed at me. Somewhere halfway down the tussle and scrum of comments in some thread, (which one is irrelevant), there comes a voice that says 'well, nothing going on here means anything to, (or carries anything from), Hispanic concerns.' And it was right. This can't be an 'Oregon' blog if it doesn't have the Hispanic element, because that's part of Oregon.

Sprinkled all along the way are repeated pleas to include more than Portland (and a slice of Lane County) in the definition of 'Oregon' in Blue Oregon.

The way it seems to work is somebody here speaks for my friend in the franchise hardware store economy, for instance, and then those statements exist here; and then word gets around to him that 'they' are talking about him on the internet, and then he logs on to find out what's been said and starts in adding and correcting The. Ongoing. Dialogue. And then it's working.

Lastly. Windows is way bad. Linux is way good. Snapshot sample evidence for or against either one of those characterizations does not convey the dynamicism of personal computer developments. Trend lines convey more, but, at best, it is completely unimaginable what's to come. I've seen it all and it's new every day.

An item a couple weeks ago reported that Foxfire is a new browser, released without introduction on Nov.1, about ninety days ago. It's a free download and people are installing it and replacing Internet Explorer in massive numbers. In less than 60 days Foxfire has taken ten market share points out of Microsoft's hide -- can that be possible? The report said (as I recollect), IE was 95 out of every 100 browsers on Nov. 1, and was only 85 out of every 100 on Jan. 1. Also, Foxfire was 0 (zero) on Nov. 1 and 10 out of every 100 browsers on Jan. 1. Since Jan. 1, I asked five browser users in the 14-30 age group if they had heard of, or had, Foxfire; four said yes and yes and they were using it, one said no and no and she would look into it, (at the Mo-Joes coffee house internet cafe on SE Division St.)

Wait for it ... Foxfire is Linux.

Pdinxs, your insult to my intelligence notwithstanding, it is you who fail to grasp what the issues in regard to One Economy and Free Geek are. Suffice it to say they have nothing to do with what OS servers in Rangoon or the Hebrides are running on.

Um...well actually I have no idea what One Economy is and only a vague idea of Free Geek. I made no comments on them because I have no information about them. To you I was only talking about Linux as an OS. So it seems to be you who fails to grasp and actually hear what other people say, and instead hear what you want to hear, what you best could respond to. Does this happen often?

Doretta, you stated the main problem with Free Geek well:

Most of them use Linux personally and think everyone else should.

So, they impose their interest in something arcane on people they claim to be helping. As I said above, the focus should be on what the clients need, not on what the Free Geekers want. Furthermore, if a computer is beyond real world usability, it is still going to end up in a landfill when a Free Geek client realizes it is useless and tosses it.

Robert, that is an interesting discussion of DSL. But, the people involved have cable modems. When I talked to Comcast, they said the one-year contract was required. It seems you are evading the high cost of cable by shifting the focus to DSL, which the participants don't have. DSL's cost are more moderate, but not nearly as low as dial-up.

You appear to have a very inflated sense of your ability, Pdinxs. It leads you to believe you can 'correct' people who much better informed than you are. So, let me break it down for you. Linux, an OS with a tiny market share, will not prepare people to use the OS and software they need in education or work. Windows will. I can't think of any way to simplify the matter further, despite my empathy for your obvious cognitive disability. Hopefully, even you can grasp what I've said. But, then, maybe not.

See, if your hi-tech limits don't traffic two-way, that mindset is broken. What it is, or could as well be, is:

Craft-skill people will not need (accept) education or work which limitedly prepares to use non-Linux OS and software,

versus

"Linux,... will not prepare people to use the OS and software they need in education or work."

Besides, Linux is better bit twidling. Hot and strong, like a penguin.

Apparently MacDiva has fallen afowl of the FreeGeek "Linux or Death" squads I've heard so much about, invading low income homes and forcing them to use Linux at gunpoint. It's appalling, really.

Yeah, I heard about those guys!

They are all bald, wear pinstripe suits and royal blue IT shirts. They come to your house on a Vespa, unleash their viscious, evil, unwanted computers on the poor, ignorant masses and then run away, laughing.

They only think they are helping people out by showing them how hardware works, and giving them a computer that functions, is stable, and is actually rebust, In reality they are just another version of the Man, pushing junky software, and poorly designed OS' upon those stupid enough to open their wallets.

I hate those guys!

Oh, and I was factually incorrect:

FreeGeek requires that you attend classes in hardware and then build 6 computers, after which you keep the 6th.

Here is the link. Sounds like an insidious menace to me. We should be vigilant! Like Diva! No sneaky OS shenanigans! Dilute!

Oh, and they so brazenly declare, right on their website (!) what their computers will come with. How Dare They!

The tricked poor are moaning and collectively mashing their teeth that they were taken advantage of.

There is time to contribute volunteering: Second Day of Computer Build Party for Bolivia and Venezuela Racks up 55 Machines author: Steev Hise

... Two days into the 6-day sprint, volunteers have already gone past the halfway point in their goal to assemble 100 computers to send to Bolivia and Venezuela.

* Today (Monday) 1/17: 11 am on through the day/night (probably till about 7pm)
* Saturday 1/22: 7pm till midnight or so
* Sunday 1/23: 11 am on through the day/night
* Monday 1/24: 11 am on through the day/night
* Sunday 1/30: the palletizing/packing party! 1pm - 6pm

Here is an informational article relating to this thread. Digital Democracy's Future Turns on Wireless Debate By Michelle Chen Mediachannel.org

[...] "A national nonprofit organization called One Economy is installing high-speed connections in affordable housing complexes in eight cities, from San Jose to Washington, DC, and aims to network 5,000 households by the end of 2005. The organization emerged from the public housing advocacy movement and founded its networking mission on the idea that low-income housing is a vital laboratory for exploring ways of integrating economically disenfranchised people into an increasingly technology-based society." [...]